Back on October 6, a New Hampshire man serving with the 82 Airborne in Iraq was killed in action. 22-year-old Nicholas Avanitis is being laid to rest in his home town of Salem, New Hampshire tomorrow. Many people are coming to honor him and his sacrifice.
And a few are coming to spit on his grave.
I don’t talk much about my Day Job, because I like to keep it separate from my blogging, but in this case they may connect. I work in the Salem area, I deal with the public, and there is a slim chance that I may encounter them today or tomorrow. And if I do, I might be looking for a new job in the immediate future.
Because there is no way in hell I will offer them any assistance whatsoever.
Re-reading my original request – to point out the “actual facts” then I’d say I owe you an apology for goalpost moving. I should have taken more care to write what I meant. There are at least references to actual facts, as in the fact that there are higher than normal oil profits. But my point was that they were conveying *opinions*.
Laura,
Under that standard, pretty much anything written would be opinion, excluding math equations.
When we talk about “America’s Strategic Interests”, that’s what we’re talking about. Energy. We need energy. We use more of it per capita than any nation on earth. We have coal, and it’s great for electrical generation, but it’s oil that you can transport. It’s oil that runs our cars and drives our economy.
What did Bush say to the Iraqis when we launched our invasion? “Don’t destroy the oil wells”… He’s an oil man. It’s what he does.
So, oil prices did go sky high. Oil companies did get record profits. Our foreign prestige was damanged abroad. This points in this statement were all true. The argument was fact based.
I think we’re not going to go one quote at a time, because we’ll be able to verify each point in each argument. And the point would be that it might lead people to change their opinion.
John
Laura,
If an appology is needed, I’ll give you one. I think you are struggling sincerly for the truth with me, and I think you’ve been honest and fair. I enjoy having these discussions with you.
John
(groan) here we go… John, there’s fact based and then there’s fact based. What I’m trying to say is that it’s all about the spin. There were many factors that caused the phenomenal spike in oil prices, and *one* was what’s going on in Iraq. It is by no means the deciding factor, as the recent dramatic drop in prices – absent any substantial change in Iraq – proves. To say that this is a war for oil is opinion, based on how that person spun a particular fact. When I say that regime change was Clinton’s policy too, you would probably say I’m spinning, but it’s a fact. It’s also a fact that the terrorists are emboldened by the anti-war movement. Bin Laden said as much, and they can win by just waiting us out and making us leave. It’s a fact that Saddam had verifiable ties to al Queda, but the spin is that “he had nothing to do with 9/11”. It’s a fact that he had WMD programs and old WMD and that trucks transported unknown substances to Syria before the war. It’s also a fact that bin Laden admitted to doing 9/11, but the Truthers doubtless have an explanation for that too. Facts have become veritable pizza dough – very malleable and spinnable.
As far as our international reputation – not to put too fine a point on it, countries do what’s best for themselves, there is no real loyalty except maybe – and it’s a big, big maybe – between us and Britain. As just one example, France was in bed with Saddam and is still struggling with an aggressive, unassimilated immigrant Muslim population. They weren’t weren’t against the war on principle and they don’t dislike us based on some high moral ground. They have their own problems and they’re trying to deal with them.
So to say that going over it point by point will verify each argument and lead people to change their opinion is, I think, ridiculous. Especially given that you and I are probably the only two people left following this thread. But I just can’t let that challenge lie there, so if you really want to duke it out point by point, then fine.
Ah, a truce would seem to be in order? I don’t think we’ll reach perfect agreement soon, although we probably agree on much.
(My wife wonders why the tile is not getting laid in the bathroom at the expected speed.)
It’s been an honor to have spoken with you, and I’m sure we’ll speak again. You seem to be one of the most reasonable voices on this site. Thank you for your time.
John
🙂 I enjoyed it, and good luck with that tile.
Would that be red tile or blue tile?