With the passing of former Congressman Gerry Studds (D-MA), I was disappointed to see that the Foley mess was given yet a fresh set of “legs” and brought up yet again. After all, Studds’ own sexualescapades with pages were often brought back up as a point of comparison for Foley’s Folly.
The more I thought about it, though, the more I realized that it was a pretty weak comparison. Both were certainly reprehensible, but they had far more in common with other scandals than with each other.
For example, let’s look at what Gerry Studds did:
- Had sexual relations with someone nominally his subordinate
- Went to great lengths to conceal the relations
- Denied the relationship right up until confronted with proof
- When unable to deny it any longer, fully acknowledged it had happened
- Was fiercely defended by his fellow party members
- Ended up even more popular than ever, even lionized for his courage
- Almost certainly broke the law, either during the relationship or in trying to conceal it
- Retired “honorably,” and was still highly regarded years after leaving office
- Was a highly regarded Democrat
Toss in a black beret and a cigar, and you have the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky scandal in a nutshell.
Now, as regards to the Foley mess:
- Most-publicized offense was very clumsy sexual come-ons, not actual sexual congress
- Did not violate any existing laws, or at least skirted them
- Rapidly became a laughingstock and punchline to jokes
- Resigned in disgrace after being abandoned by his party
- Became a pariah
- Instead of either embracing the offense or admitting it as a personal failing, fell back on excuses such as alcoholism to “explain” the misconduct
- Backed many laws that helped greatly those he allegedly victimized
That sounded awful familiar, so I started racking my brains, and then it hit me:
Mark Foley is the new Bob Packwood.
(And just to complete the comparison, both Foley and Clinton ran afoul of laws they themselves had championed — Foley was tireless in fighting the online sexual exploitation of children, Clinton had signed the law that made the accused’s past sexual conduct legally admissible in lawsuits alleging sexual harassment.)
(Can’t believe I forgot to add this)
Conclusion:
If you’re going to survive a sex scandal, two elements will greatly assist you:
1) Be a Democrat.
2) Actually have sex.
whoops, that comment above responds to
Justrand at October 15, 2006 02:17 PM
Idiot, liar or fool. I don’t know which applies, one or all of them, Lee. Are you making a prediction that democrats win because a Florida Congressman wrote dirty notes to person who had reached the age of consent in Washington DC. Is that you prediction? How do you like your crow? Cold or hot. You are going to be eating November 8, 2006. While you may or may not believe any of the so called polls, Lee, you are forgetting the motivating factor of having Nancy Pelosi the Speaker of the House will have on Republican and independent voters. I suspect it will have a far greater effect than that of the hypocritical criticism by the left of someone who is no longer holding a seat in Congress. Time will tell.
“The fact that no one on on Wizang will talk about how poorly the republicans appear to be doing so far wont stop me from making that observation.”
Duh..o’tay your so right I might as well not even vote with intellectual genuises like you already saying my vote is useless..
Do You already got the dead vote counter going or what?
Lee-So I guess your answer is no you don’t have anything to say about the topic of this thread.I obviuosly disagree with your assessment of what every post here is about.I sympathize with your desire to express yourself as I share a similar desire-but this is not my website and I try to stay on topic.Your opinions-and mine-about what will happen on November 7th aren’t specifically relevant on this particular thread.
LEE – I am lost on your argument that Republicans, like myself, would not vote for Republicans because of the actions of former Florida Congressman. If something like this changes the minds of Republicans, they would be white washing the whole party and that is not going to happen on a large scale. “Oh, Tom Foley is a rat….I guess I won’t vote…or I’ll pick a Democrat here in CA…that’ll show ’em!” Right! Nothing like an October surprise to fire up the base, remember the CBS National Guard surprise…that worked out will for the Democratic last time.
But, to the point of the thread, Foley vs. Stubbs…..there was clear action taken by each party. Foley was forced out by GOP leaders for poor behavior and growing indiscretions. Stubbs, who engaged in sexual activities with a 17 year boy under his charge, was defended and even heralded by Democrat leaders and members, later “censured”, but remained a Congressman.
In 1982, Dan Crane, a Republican, was “censured” for having a sexual relationship in 1980 with an underage female congressional page. No GOP cover up, no GOP support either…the voters put him in the following election. Republicans urged Crane to resign, but in the aftermath of Stubbs….it was hard to oust him without public pressure.
It’s clear the comparison between Foley and Stubbs in the article was lacking fact and thoughtful analysis.
I think most people in all political parties would be sickened by what Studds did, but Republicans apparently didn’t make a major effort to expel him (or Dan Crane), they served with him for another 10+ years after the scandal, they didn’t really seem to have a problem with him in those years, and when he retired in 1996, a bipartisan majority voted to name a marine sanctuary after him.
The GOP was a minority until 1994. In 1994, it’d be hard to justify booting out a guy for crimes committed nearly ten years earlier. Especially since his party would go to the mat for him. As for the marine sanctuary, there are certain fights really not worth the fight. That was one of them.
The GOP distanced themselves from Crane and, most importantly, CONSERVATIVES VOTED HIM OUT OF OFFICE.
It’s the whole “having SOME principles” thing in full effect.
Heck, ironically, the one guy the Dems decided to vote out of office over “ethical” concerns (Condit) was likely the least guilty of all of them. He was accused, almost undeniably falsely, of being linked to murder of somebody.
No one on your side got rid of Foley, he got rid of himself.
If you REALLY think the Republicans didn’t advise him, heavily, to go away, you’re delusional.
I don’t see you trying to get rid of Hastert or Delay or even Ney. Until a criminal indictment gets handed down, Republicans are more than willing to deal with the unethical conduct of its own.
Accusations are enough to punish people?
Ooookay.
I could mention how quickly the Dems got away from their OLD canard of punishing people for the pure “appearance of impropriety” the moment they won the WH.
-=Mike
A taste of the WITHERING criticism of Dems in regards to Studds:
“Gerry’s leadership changed Massachusetts forever and we’ll never forget him. His work on behalf of our fishing industry and the protection of our waters has guided the fishing industry into the future and ensured that generations to come will have the opportunity to love and learn from the sea. He was a steward of the oceans.”
– U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.
—
“No one fought harder for human rights, particularly in Latin America; for our environment; and for the fishermen of New England and the entire nation. He was a true pioneer.”
– U.S. Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass., whose wife, Lisa, once worked as an aide to Studds.
—
“Gerry often said that it was the fight for gay and lesbian equality that was the last great civil rights chapter in modern American history. He did not live to see its final sentences written, but all of us will forever be indebted to him for leading the way with compassion and wisdom. He gave people of his generation, of my generation, and of future generations the courage to be who they are.”
– Dean Hara, who married Studds in 2004.
—
“Gerry was a stalwart champion of New England’s fishing families as well as a committed environmentalist who worked hard to demonstrate that the cause of working people and the cause of the environment go hand in hand with the right leadership. When he retired from Congress, he did not retire from the cause, continuing to fight for the fishing industry and New England’s environmental causes.
– U.S. Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.
—
“I am very saddened by the death of Gerry Studds. From his days in the early 1970s as an articulate and effective opponent of the Vietnam war, through his consistent leadership on environmental issues, to his insistence that the U.S. government stop ignoring the AIDS crisis, Gerry was a forceful advocate for causes that were not always popular and that were consequently shunned by many politicians.”
– U.S. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass.
http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061014/APN/610141288
And Kerry’s comments about Foley?
“That was Denny Hastert’s instinctive response to questions about why the Republican leadership hadn’t done more to protect young congressional pages in the Mark Foley scandal.”
Yeah, I can see how flirting with boys is SO much worse than actually penetrating them.
So, please, Dems — tell us how the DNC really takes these issues seriously.
-=Mike
I especially like the Kennedy quote: He was a steward of the oceans.”
Coming from the steward of CHAPPAQUIDDICK thats quite a compliment.
I recall Cong .Studds-was that his birth name or was it changed for wishful thinking-got one of his pages “lickered up” and while he was passed out “lickered him”.Obviously a clasy individual.
Now a little commentary,then it’s off to a Bo-tox partyIn Zelazny’s “Lord of Light” Siddhartha,aka Sam,is quoted as saying the individual flaws of a leader are not a renunciation of his ideals.Thus ,sexual trangressions of someone do not besmirch the paarty ideals.
My feeling is the Democrats willingness to try anything to regain some political power is so many of them have an economic need for certain political favors,whether it’s Davis Bacon,affirmative actions,shooting down Charter schools etc.If they don’t win,they don’t eat-at least very well.Hence,ballot stuffing,etc can be a way of job hunting.just a thought.Now,off with the wrinkles!
Lee said:
Note that Lee said that two HOURS after he tried to inject Harry Reid into my following posting about the New Hampshire blogging gathering — which had not a damned thing to do with elections. The dipshit can’t even keep his delusions consistent.
And back on May 12, 2006, Lee said the following after I busted a sock puppet:
I responded:
Lee answered:
That’s 5 months, Lee. The time is long, long past for you to put up or shut up. I have had far too much of you spewing your crap, your unfounded allegations, your random idiocies.
You are skirting right on the edge of banning. Go ahead, Lee, push me just that much farther. It’ll take very little effort.
J.
“If something like this [Foley scandal] changes the minds of Republicans, they would be white washing the whole party and that is not going to happen on a large scale.”
Let me guess, Tim. You’re a white male over 25. You’re less likely to abandon your Republican ways at the polls these day than any other piece of the Republican constituency’s demographic.
Meanwhile, males under 25 and women are leaving the party in droves — at least in terms of how they plan to vote this November. They’re not card-carrying Democrats, and there’s even time to win them back before the election – but they’re stepping away from the Republican party today.
Jay said: “Note that Lee said that two HOURS after he tried to inject Harry Reid into my following posting about the New Hampshire blogging gathering — which had not a damned thing to do with elections. The dipshit can’t even keep his delusions consistent.”
I didn’t comment on your blogging gathering thread, Jay. That was jp2.
That comment was made 2 hours before mine, but I didn’t make it.
Party? Wheres the party? No one invited Me!
And you came by this knowledge how Lee? Some psychic powers or are you believing a poll taken by the DMC. The only poll that counts is the one taken on November 7th. How would you like your crow prepared?
Lee:
My apologies. I’m no proctologist; sometimes I can’t tell one asshole from another.
STILL waiting for that accusation of sock-puppetry, but I’m not holding my breath. You found one thing in my piece that you could nit-pick; that gives you an excuse to skip the rest of it.
J.
What is DMC pray tell? Democratic Moron Committee?
“There are good people in both parties and there are bad.”
Sorry Rodney, I don’t know any good republicans. Although I suppose Abe Lincoln was OK, and Arlen Specter, isn’t a bad guy.-plays a hell of a game of squash for an old man-,and then there is Jack Kemp,and Michael Steele…. You know what Rodney, maybe I COULD find a couple of good repubs if I looked hard enough. Is Colin Powell still a repub? Oh that’s right, he is considered a traitor now. All because he turned his back on frat boy when he realized they used him like an old vacuum cleaner.
Oh well, I will keep looking for some good repubs Rodney. I am sure there are some more out there. Like the people that post on this site for instance, these are some really good people these Wizbang republicans.
Jay, while you’re at it, can we agree that field african american rates up there with Lee on the Irrelevant Meter?
He’s actually gotten worse. I think he’s been egged on with Lee’s scintillating commentaries.
I know plenty of nice Dems, too bad, Field Nonsequitur, you have such a difficult time meeting nice Reps. Maybe it’s not the Reps., but your sorry ass attitude. Ever considered that, Amigo Negro?
uhh f-n name us one “good” democrap er crat.
jhow: he’ll tell you Maxine Waters, Je$$e Jack$on, Charlie Rangel, William Jefferson, you know, all those charismatic, yet empty, “leaders” he emulates on this Blog.
The 4 You mentioned all have a unique ability to cash in on their heritage..They also each operate on cold hard cash..bluestate bullshitters
“How would you like your crow prepared?”
I’ll pass on the crow.
On election night everyone in America will be treated to a nice, hearty Red Whine.
Mitchell, I don’t speak Spanish, so you might want to save your amigo reference for someone who does.
Also, your ignorance is diminished only by your parochial way of thinking. For you to even imply that I support the black leaders you mentioned, just because they are black, shows just how low you will go to imoress your white masters on this site. No one is tougher on the clowns you mentioned than I am.
But hey, keep playing the Wizbang house negro and buffoon; the role fits you well.
BTW counselor,-and I use that word loosely- if amigo means friend, you might want to rephrase that comment. I eat Oreos, I don’t befriend them 🙂
love how field negro calls Mitchell low for his comments, then goes on to make his own comments about oreos. Same old story, its ok for the dems to do it, but the republicans are evil if they do. So f’ing sick of the transparent hypocrisy.
Huey Long said “in politics you cannot be caught in bed with either a live boy or a dead girl.” Foley did neither–how about Studds?
Uhhh–still waiting f-n.
jhow66, you’ll be waiting a long time for Theo Huxtable. Likes to pretend he is all hood, but growing up the only hood the boy knew was on the back of his sweater. Remember, this is the same guy that bragged about his family rubbing shoulders with bannana republic thugs and praised Castro for sending doctors around the world, all the while ignoring what he has done to the Cuban people.
Likes to pretend that blacks can’t get a leg up, while ignoring his own family’s sucesses (mummy and daddy are doctors, Theo is a lawyer, sis a Fullbright Scholar).
As usual, for thee, but not me, is the rule for progressives.
yep..it is all the Dems…any problem we have now it is Clinton or the Dems from a decade ago…
Was the avalanche of Dem crap so deep..and the Republican Party so weak…that 5 years of Republican control has been unable to overcome it?
As an Independent the Dems disgust me…but I am sick and tired of cry baby Republicans who can seldom accept the proven faults of their party…
I was a Republican until the invasion of Iraq..
Until you folks can admit to the failures of your party you truly are no better than the whinning Dems…
SCIwuzzy, personal attacks on me and my family aside. I still take great comfort in knowing that you are a loser, and I am not.
That much is obvious from your puerile and empty posts about yours truly. But hey, knock yourself out, it must be hard being you, so I understand the frustration.
Tell you what I will do for you, shoot me an e-mail and I will send you a self help book, and some tips from the field on building self esteem, and becoming a better more well rounded person.
I can’t imagine how hard it must be for you trolling nursing homes and the public library all day 🙂
I love it, re Theo, “growing up the only hood the boy knew was on the back of his sweater.” Touche.
Field Negro calls me a “House Negro.” Does that mean he thinks I’m black? What is that, exactly. Is this what passes for “discourse” on the Left? Appears to be about all we get from the Great Theo Huxtable.
Maybe his “acting white [i.e. successful]” has him overcompensating with the Field Negro schtick he has going? That way he might get a little “street cred,” or whatever.
He can’t take the rough stuff, but he can sure dish it, can’t he. F’n Hyposcrite.
Maybe he’s just upset that his BMW had to go in the shop for the 35,000 mile service.
Oh, SCSIwuzzy, are you hurt? He called you a “loser” because, I guess, you don’t have a Fulbright and haven’t posted that on your own “‘blog” like he has. Ohhhh he’s soooo sophisticated, but he’s still a schmuck.
Oh, and I forgot something–
Field Negro, you can kiss my hairy white ass!
Hey f-n you are sounding just like a holier then tho liberal that says I am more “schooled than you”. Hilarious.We just “love” the big words you use. It makes us feel so fulfilled to know that someone from the “south” has made it bigtime. Please feel free to recommend books for us so that we may somehow come up to your level of intellect. Better yet buy them for us as you are in the bigtime. This way you can fullfill your liberal agenda of handouts for everyone so no one has to work.I just cannot wait to see what books you are going to send us. My favorite is “See Jane Run”. Hint hint.
Mitchell,
Nope. Don’t feel hurt at all. Still trying to figure out how pointing out his parents are doctors is a personal attack… guess I just don’t have enough schooling to keep up with that. “Theo”, however, is a personal attack, but one on his level.
I always love that, when someone that tosses around terms like oreo and house negro gets offended when called Theo Huxtable. 😉
Oh well. That’s what recon by fire does… tells you when the opposition has been hit.
“you can kiss my hairy white ass!” Well Mitchell, that explains alot. Sorry for implying that you were black, I know that’s tantamount to blasphemny for you. BTW, you might try waxing my man, a hairy anything is very unpleasant.
“…but he’s still a schmuck”
So which is it Mitchell, are you white or are you Yiddish?
“Please feel free to recommend books for us so that we may somehow come up to your level of intellect.”
It would help if you could read. But I guess “See Jane Run” is a start 😉
FN, why must you know the ethnic background of everyone? Why must everyone be tagged? Maybe if you didn’t apply your prejudices first when interacting with people, you’d have a happier life. I certainly hope this isn’t how you behave in the courtroom. Lord knows Philly has enough judges that already do that…
F-N when can I expect my reader?