What color is the sky in Carter’s world?
Former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday night that an agreement he brokered 12 years ago for North Korea to halt nuclear weapons development is “in the wastebasket.” Carter contends the Bush administration turned its back on the deal and labeled the isolated nation part of an “axis of evil.”
Carter is a fool. He’s suggesting that we can’t blame NoKo for creating nukes because Bush called them part of the “Axis of Evil.” Note to Jimmy Carter: NoKo started working on its nuke project before the ink dried on your ridiculous “agreement.”
Armitage has provided the earliest estimate of the program’s origin, testifying February 4 that the U.S. government noticed “some anomalies in [North Korean] procurement patterns” starting in 1994. Similarly, Secretary of State Colin Powell stated during a March 26 hearing before the House Appropriations Committee that North Korea started the program to enrich uranium “before the ink was dry” on the 1994 Agreed Framework.
Hat tip: Wizbang commenter L.O.
George Soros is also blaming Bush for NoKo, but that’s not nearly as sickening as Carter’s accusations. Soros is just a crazy, wealthy moonbat out to hurt America. Carter, on the other hand, is a former president out to hurt America.
Update: Ian at Hot Air is also blogging this one.
Update II: Jack Kelly asks why NoKo is our problem to begin with.
I see Lee’s idiot sister James has joined the attempt to change the subject to Bush from Carter. If Carter had understood the job of President of the United States, we would not be having the problems we are having in many areas of the world. Here is a fact for you fu*king idiots on the left. If Truman had let McArthur fight the Korean war like a war the the U.S. was capable of fighting, we would not be having this dicussion today. James, here is proof you are a liar. Which tirade is it that Bush never gave are you referring to? Link please. Do you dumb motherf*ckers take responsibity for anything? I doubt it. All your posts prove it that a gaggle of liars (Lee, Brian and now James) can not find the truth with both hands and a flashlight.
Mr. Ragshaft’s response is that which I would expect from a lunatic responding on emotion and not on logic.
If Mr. Truman had allowed McCarthur to fight the Korean war to the point where we had an all-out war with China involving nuclear weapons, millions of people would have died on both sides and, nothing would be proven. The world is a better place because both sides showed restraint.
I am not changing the subject from Carter to Bush because, if you read the initial quote that Mr. Carter is rightly (This is the word under debate) blaming the Bush administration for the situation we are currently in. I know this is a long thread but feel free to read it in its entirety.
I am not sure why I dignified Mr. Ragshaft’s ravings but I hope that everybody else was suitably embarrassed by him.
mordoormat – Are you close? Like the earth is close to the moon.
My apologies to Peter F for responding to Mr. Ragshaft.
Your points are valid but I think substantiate my arguments.
If, for instance, we had “turned the other cheek” in response to 9/11, what might have the reaction been?
Turning the other cheek after 9/11 would have been wrong. It was correct to hunt bin Laden and to focus on the Taliban from which we knew the attack was sanctioned. The Taliban was not a recognized political entity but a band of zealots hiding within the political boundaries of another nation who supported our assistance.
Our leaders lied to us and exploited the good will and bipartisan spirit to take the war to Iraq. I believe the appropriate measured response would have been to stop at The Taliban and not carry the war to a nation that, we now know, had nothing to do with 9/11.
.. we have shown etntirely too much restraint and unwillingness to crush our enemies into submission–the ONLY thing Islamofascists know is pure and utter defeat and we have not done that; they do not understand “hearts and minds” and clearly that strategy is seen as weakness by them.
My problem with this is identifying Islamofascists as you call them. Many more people have died in this endeavor than those in the terrorist cells and how would we characterize pure and utter defeat?
How will we know when they are all dead?
The answer is that we can’t. And our government knows that and is fostering that idea. If they can keep us on a constant war footing for the rest of our lives against an enemy we can’t identify then they can keep their unlimited power forever. We are basically waging a war without a plan and it has gone from an invasion which our military knew how to do and accomplished beautifully, to a vague and fuzzy police action regime build where our very presence exascerbates the problem.
I still believe that we should hold ourselves to the higher standard before we can enforce that standard on the rest of the world. We cannot condemn torturers if we torture. We cannot condemn murder if we murder. It is true that the terrorists do not follow the rules, but this is not the last war we will fight and we may fight against a more nationalistic foe that did sign the convention. We must follow the rules of war because the rules are what we are fighting for.
We lost 3000 on 9/11 and since 9/11 we have lost anywhere between 30,000 and 600,000 depending on your source. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. I don’t think that all the terrorist cells combined, even with the level of apathy in the world before 9/11 could have killed this efficiently.
We did this because we were afraid. Our government told us that we needed to be afraid because this enemy wants to destroy us. I think it would be better to take our chances and preserve our freedoms, including habeas corpus for everybody, rather than giving up all of our rights because we are scared. How cowardly can we be to keep hiding behind our troops so that the killing doesn’t come over here. Safety is a personal responsibility. We learned that by the fourth plane on 9/11 and in Pennsylvania we won our first victory over the terrorists. By the fourth plane we were no longer afraid to fight.
If we don’t follow the rules, who will?
mordoormat – Are you close? Like the earth is close to the moon.
Excellent,
Only 30 earths away, in an infinite universe that isn’t too bad.
Thank you
James,
I’m afraid we can’t harp enough on the motivations for this war since the president has already admitted three times that he lied about the reason for it.
This sentence interests me. Please cite the three times the president admitted that he lied.
How collosally stupid does one have to be to blame George Bush for Kim’s idiotic behavior?
No one’s blaming Bush for Kim’s behavior. How colossally stupid does one have to be to think that they are?
People are blaming Bush for Kim’s ability and perceived necessity to enrich and detonate plutonium.
Democrats seem to enjoy blaming the victim for the rape.
A crude analogy. Here’s a better one. When you lay out explosive components in front of you, close your eyes, turn around, and shout “la la la la la”, you deserve some blame when someone walks by, picks up the pieces, and builds a bomb.
Democrats really are a lower life form.
Apparently you higher life forms have evolved beyond the need to read and understand history.
In other words, mordoormat, you’re not close. But good comeback, I must admit! Touche!
The president lied about his knowledge of WMD’s and continued to use that as a motivation long after he knew they weren’t there. Mr. Cheney was the direct liar here and said that we knew not only that they had them, but that we knew where they were.
He lied about Iraq’s definite involvement in 9/11. He did eventually admit that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
He lied about the fact that Iraq was working closely with Al Quaeda. Evidence showed that Hussein hated Bin Laden and had much to fear from him
There are numerous other lies we have been handed and which we cannot investigate because the white house seals all its records.
We still have yet to see all of the evidence of our own governments involvement in putting Hussein in power in the first place. Bush has sealed all records going back through Reagan’s presidency and put them under the custody of the Bush family.
Yet another step in the march toward hereditary dictatorship. Since when are national records the property or even at the discretion of one family. If he had evidence to support his statements he would surely have provided it now before the mid term elections.
James,
I understand that you believe the president lied. I’m asking you to back up this statement:
“…the president has already admitted three times that he lied about the reason for it.“
Regarding the above lies from the white house. Even if Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell or anybody else had not come right out and said they were, at the very least, misinformed. Even if they are not fully culpable for actions based on information, they should certainly be held to account.
I was actually prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt for a long time since I am a conservative and I thought they may have my best interests at heart. I believe however that those in power need to be under the firmest scrutiny and should be punished relentlessly if they fail in their sacred trust.
We held Clinton to it and his last two years in office were a well-earned hell. He betrayed the public trust and he paid for it.
But if this administration is found to be guilty of even half of the crimes for which they are accused, these are capital offenses. Lying to the people whom you are asking to die for your cause must be a capital offense. If you ask for the highest trust, if you ask the people to take your word on faith and then fail them, that is indefensible.
We musn’t stand up for people who accept the greatest responsibility in the land and fail in that trust. This president has served to make Clinton’s crime look trivial and has defiled the honor of the Republican party.
I will find the quotes and post them momentarily.
Let me summarize Lee/James/Brian: Kim Jong Il-scared lil’ bunny-was peacefully minding his own business drinking imported hooch when evil chimpybushitler gave a really mean speech which scared him so much he had to do something.So he started a nuke program-just for defense,mind you,and now he has nukes.So now we better ditch those lying failed haliburton Republicans and get the Democrats to send someone over there RIGHT NOW to give Kim Jong Il-prince of peace-whatever he wants so he will stop making nukes.
James I don’t know about the alternate universe you seem to inhabit but in this one Saddam took power in 1979.Thus Reagan or Bush could not have put him into power.Maybe Carter did it! I’d also like to see the three times Bush admitted he lied.Pardon me for noticing but you seem to be about as conservative as Moby the “singer/artist” who advised leftists to claim to be disgruntled Republicans before the 2004 election.Also I missed the 30-600 thousand that “we” lost-when did that happen? Or are you a citizen of the world who values everyone even those that want to destroy the United States? Sorry but that view doesn’t sound like any conservative I know.
Hey everybody you have it all wrong. Old “pucker puss” (lee lee) and the rest of the Kos Kiddies Kastoffs are sane. It just that they are the biggist bunch of asskissing, bootlicking, appeasing (aka “peanut” Carter) excusemaking, dumbest, bleeding heart, tinfoil hat wearing socalled humans in the world. The world would be as tame as a church mouse if the first you did when you talked to your enemies like old “pucker puss” (lee lee) does is say “BEND OVER”. Where to you think he got his name?
Hi Brian-got your strength back? You write that people blame Bush for Kim Jong Ils ability and perceived necessity to enrich and detonate plutonium.If Bush is blamed for his ability doesn’t that mean that Bush should have removed this ability-i.e. launched a pre-emptive war to stop him from enriching and detonating plutonium? Like Iraq? If he is blamed for the perceived necessity perhaps you can list all the threatening moves we have made indicating that we intended to attack North Korea.Apparantly I missed all those-no doubt Fox just didn’t tell me.I did hear that he gave a nasty speech once in which North Korea was mentioned-did that give rise to the perceived necessity? If so, perhaps you or someone else can explain why the Nork statement that sanctions are a declaration of war should not lead to the perceived necessity of the US using thermonuclear weapons to exterminate the regime of Kim Jong Il down to the last fetus.I mean that was a pretty inflamatory speech wasn’t it?
Has anyone noticed the obvious? North Korea does not have a bomb. The device didn’t achieve critical mass. All he’s managed to do is bury a bunch of plutonium with no way to retrieve it.
“We held Clinton to it. and His last 2 years in office were a living hell. He betrayed the public trust and He paid for it.”
Yeah right, blow jobs and different women everynight, he wrote a book, cashed in on the Rich’s, tours the world as a celebrity, is a multi millionaire multi national playboy..
Man Hes got it rough.
I love posts like these where Lee truly shines…I can just see his seething rage as he tries to deny reality and how Jimmy Carter has effed up the world so bad that he has to be defended by the left even though his Presidency was probably one of the worst in history.
We can thank him for the situation in Iran and North Korea. Chew on that Lee.
A simple peanut farmer who puts the whole world in jeopardy!!
Who woulda thunk it possible?
I need Me some Billy beer.. hic hic..
Another successful orgasm for Lee 12:02
Well, that would be relevant if NoKo used uranium in their bomb. Their test used plutonium, not uranium. There was no plutonium produced under Clinton. Where did they get it, then?
Obviously, you haven’t studied nuclear physics. The enriched uranium itself is used to produce plutonium. Specifically, U-238, via a breeder reactor. It doesn’t come out the air magically, nor is it mined. The NK removed their spent rods from their 5MW(e) reactor, and reprocessed it.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/nuke-plutonium.htm
Ahem:
When the reactor was shut down for refueling in April 1994, it was variously estimated that the unloaded spent fuel contained 17 to 33 kilograms of weapon-grade plutonium. The 8,000 spent fuel rods at the Yongbyon facility are in special canisters, under the watchful eye of the International Atomic Energy Agency 24 hours a day. Those eight thousand spent fuel rods contain enough plutonium for the North Koreans to build up to perhaps as many as six additional nuclear weapons. Absent international safeguards, North Korea could begin reprocessing the spent fuelinto plutonium for atomic bombs in six to eight months, according to some estimates.
Just having the uranium to enrich was pretty much all they needed. Throw in some centrifuges, HF to separate the uranium to make Uranium Hexoflouride…
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/plutonium.htm
And if radioactive samples have been collected, you can identify specifically which rods and from whence the plutonium comes from. All plutonium have a specific “flavour” which can be used to identify it’s origin…ratio of P-239 to P-238, the tritium amount (if it’s a two- or three-stager), etc.
Let me summarize Lee/James/Brian: blah blah blah things no one ever said blah blah blah
Ah, I see your strawman generator is back on full power.
If Bush is blamed for his ability doesn’t that mean that Bush should have removed this ability-i.e. launched a pre-emptive war to stop him from enriching and detonating plutonium?
Yes, because as all good little Republicans know, there only only two paths you can take in matters of foreign affairs: appeasment or war.
Yes Brian,, But then theres the Evil repubs with a nasty neo con flavor for conquest like Me Bush and that tag along wanna be Rove! Hes disappointing lately!! We should have already nuked Iran and Syria and North Korea dammit Hes sluffing on our conquest plans. Ohh well I’ll just raise the petro prices again and get ever heehe, one in line, including Chavez.
‘Whats the date by the way?? Ohh hee hee I got almost 2 weeks before..GOT WOOD? hee hee
Well Brian I see you stiil don’t have a rational argument to make.I also note you had no response to what Mr. Cloninger wrote either.When you summarize you neceessarily paraphrase what was written using fewer words-or you aren’t summarizing.Isn’t that obvious? Plus that was intended as a parody-are you pretending you didn’t understand that? Clinton tried the appeasment approach in 1994 and onwards.It failed.Bush has been trying the diplomatic approach from his first election to now.You leftists claim it has failed.That pretty much leaves only a return to appeasment or war.We know which leftists want-appeasament-but they like to condemn Bush for not choosing war.Heads they win,tails Bush loses! Nice try Brian but you still don’t have your strength back.Buh-bye.
I apparently have many posts to answer
As promised here are a few of the quotes I was able to find to substantiate the lies.
Unfortunately I have had to work so I haven’t had as much time as I wanted to participate in the debate. My statement before was not 100% accurate.
Bush only actually ‘admitted’ that he lied once but I have a number of lies here. One is Rumsfeld getting called on the administration’s lies about WMD’s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiNtpIpD6k
Rumsfeld speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ndwQDFhzHc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AofhyXjttJA
Bush speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTiKpCuxAog&mode=related&search=
had nothing to do with 9/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Elr-TtqVB8&NR
My problem with these instances is that none of them have been called out in congress. Even if some of these are unsubstantiated, why isn’t congress investigating them. Why are conservatives just trusting that our government is going to do these things right when the evidence does not substantiate that claim?
I don’t claim at all that Bush has tried the diplomatic approach. He has not. What he has done is to give ultimatums to North Korea that we cannot back up unless we want to start a war with all of Asia. We can’t afford Mr. Bush’s war as it currently stands. I would not like to see what would happen if we tried to take on a country with a viable military. The war hawks would like it because we could finally use some of the sophisticated weapons we paid for but that still wouldn’t solve the diplomatic problems that come when we are supposed to be done shooting.
I am a conservative. In fact I think I am more conservative than most people that I know. I believe that government has NO place in our personal lives. I do not want the federal government to handle anything but Interstate Highways, the maintenance of a sophisticated standing army (usually at home), regulation of interstate commerce and diplomatic relations with the rest of the world. Every other social issue I believe the Federal government should have nothing to do with. I don’t want church in government and I don’t want the government messing with churches, I don’t want the government involved in people’s sex lives and I don’t care who people sleep with. I can happily say that these things are not my business and are not the business of the federal government.
All I want from my government is for them to take care of the money that we give them responsibly and to be held accountable for where it is going. I see no evidence that the Republicans spend any less enthusiastically than the Democrats. They simply pretend that taxes are lower and spend on deficits. I am not sure what feeble minded people can be conned by that.
Back to the topic at hand:
The Korean problem goes back before World War II
Many presidents have screwed things up there but the argument at hand is that this president has done it worse than any before him. There comes a point where we can’t blame the previous administration when this president has been in power for the last six years and the GOP, and indeed Cheney and Rumsfeld, have been in power for all but twelve of the last 35 years. How can we not hold these people accountable.
I posted 4 or 5 links about an hour ago to a number of speeches. I was told since this is an old thread they would be scrutinized first.
Either way I will admit that I only found one instance where Bush actually admitted that he lied though he pretended that it was what he had been saying all along.
Otherwise I posted the links to where administration officials actually got caught lying, which in my mind is the same thing.
I notice we keep returning to the same theme of appeasement or war- black and white and simplistic solutions. Does it not bother you guys that we are supposed to be the good guys in this?
I actually do believe that if we kill 100k or 400k or 600k civilians that that is a bad thing. I don’t believe that all of those people hated America and we probably killed a fair number of people whose Democracy we are apparently trying to save. I am not arrogant enough to think that only American lives count though we have now lost more of those than we lost on 9/11. You can stretch your definition of Collateral as far as you like but the farther you stretch it the more reason you give the world to hate us.
If you want to see the links I used go to Youtube and search bush lies. You will find plenty of interviews and speeches where capital lies are being told.
You can do this with every president, naturally but this is the first president in decades that hasn’t had to answer for his lies. The fact is that we don’t know how much these people are guilty of because we aren’t allowed to check.
I am just curious why we are so hellbent on defending these people no matter how much they fail.
James,
“…the president has already admitted three times that he lied about the reason for it.”
“…administration officials actually got caught lying, which in my mind is the same thing.”
You’re kidding, right?
I asked for proof to back up your claim that the president admintted he lied. You cannot do so. Should I assume that you lied or should I give you the benefit of a doubt and think that maybe you were mistaken?
For consistency you should treat my hyperbole that he admitted to three lies with the same leniency that you treat his perversions of the facts, in which case I hope you condemn me as a liar and have the courage to do the same to him. There may be proof of other ommissions, but I don’t really have time to look for them. The problem now is nobody in the media is looking for them and this president won’t swear to anything under oath or put himself in a forum to face unbiased questions.
I still assert that when Bush said that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and we have records where he and his minions said that it did, he was admitting that he lied. It was just that nobody put his feet to the fire for it. Your questioning of my argument is far more severe than anything he endured when he said that.
I would also suggest that you view the consequences of listening to me vs. then consequences of listening to Mr. Bush and Company.
They lied and people are getting killed and the constitution is being trampled.
I did not have time to do research for this blog because I have a day job. This IS Mr. Bush’s day job. We must hate our politicians on their own merits and make them pay for their mistakes and not pay any attention to their party. I am worried because Republicans continue to support their feeble representatives even when these people prove at best ridiculously incompetent at worst criminally negligent.
At present in America you still have the right to treat both of us as you wish. Criticizing the president is a right that is rapidly disappearing.
And, as long as we are talking about breaking treaties, let’s not talk about what Bush is doing to the Geneva Convention.
Hmm, another person who has never actually READ the Conventions, eh?
Can you imagine what Bush would do when somebody called him a jerk. You won’t have to wait too long to see. If we actually get some checks and balances and can get these people to swear to their actions under oath, I think you will find that we have put shotguns in a lot of peoples’ mouths.
Hugo Chavez called Bush “Satan”. Venezuela still has a building taller than one story standing.
BTW, why is there no concern from the left about the Dems plan to use impeachment to launch a coup d’etat if they win Congress?
There were ways to use diplomacy with China, Russia and Japan if we had consistently worked to solidify friendships and relationships and not launched ridiculous wars to increase the profits of our elected leaders.
Feel free to name what Bush could have done to get them on board when they aren’t on board now after tests?
Kim Jong Il is a dictator and essentially a weakling. If Bush hadn’t issued ultimatums that we can’t afford I doubt very much he would have tested.
Yes, because Jong-Il has been one of the main targets of Bush’s scorn. Hell, he seldom MENTIONED N. Korea after the Axis of Evil speech.
But, again, hurting Jong-Il’s feelings is somehow going to cause nuke testing?
Makes sense.
Our leaders lied to us and exploited the good will and bipartisan spirit to take the war to Iraq.
There was no “bipartisan spirit”. Rockefeller said in 2002 he planned on politicizing the Intel Committee.
The answer is that we can’t. And our government knows that and is fostering that idea. If they can keep us on a constant war footing for the rest of our lives against an enemy we can’t identify then they can keep their unlimited power forever.
And pulling out before the problem is resolved shows that we can be defeated if you simply wait us out.
We already have the reputation of being “paper tigers”.
We cannot condemn torturers if we torture.
When our idea of “torture” is sleep deprviation — we have A LOT of room to condemn countries who don’t torture in such friendly and kind ways.
We must follow the rules of war because the rules are what we are fighting for.
See, the Conventions only are FOR groups who follow the rules of war. That our enemies have decided to not follow the rules of war makes giving them the protections of the Conventions one of the great mistakes in human history.
If you can be protected even while ignoring the rules of war — then why in the heck should you abide by the rules of war?
We lost 3000 on 9/11 and since 9/11 we have lost anywhere between 30,000 and 600,000 depending on your source.
Actually, WE haven’t lost them. They have.
And just because the terrorists have their plots defeated does not mean they didn’t intend to kill. It’s the same ridiculous logic that allows people to condemn Israel because they kill more Palestinians than Palestinians kill Israelis — ignoring that the small number of Israeli deaths is hardly intentional.
I think it would be better to take our chances and preserve our freedoms, including habeas corpus for everybody, rather than giving up all of our rights because we are scared.
And I find it loathesome that our soldiers have died to provide “rights” to our enemies. It dishonors their sacrifice.
I still assert that when Bush said that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and we have records where he and his minions said that it did, he was admitting that he lied.
If Bush says something and his “minions” say something else — in what alternate universe did Bush “lie”?
-=Mike
Why do people listen to Jimmy (the peanut) Carter. He is nothing more than a Jew hating, Christian hating, Killer Rabbit fearing, unashamed descendent of slave owners, bigoted, IDIOT. The first time I ever saw him was on “Face the Nation’ when he was running for the nomination of the Democratic Party for President of the United States. After watching him successfully avoid answering a single question for 60 minutes I said this to my wife, “There is no way that this IDIOT can even get the Democratic nomination.” I just did not realize how stupid the Democrats were and I did not realize how stupid Americans had become. We would have been better off with Nixon the crook in office than Jimmy the buffoon.