Note: This post is now closed to new comments. The Metzger discussion will continue in our new Wizbang Forum, where there is a thread devoted to Metzger. Registration is required to post on our new vBulliten powered forums. We’re fairly certain that the new forum system will be more practical for this type of extended discussion…
In the coming weeks we’ll updated to look of the forums to more closely match the new Wizbang design.
Ya know Jeth, you’re a real “joke”. Funny to see you MAD over a cyber person! No, YOU cannot tolerate me. I’m fine with myself. However, I do find it psychotic that you keep posting info. that you think you know about me and have NO clue….you don’t know who I am, where I am, what I do, what computer I am on. I could be on vacation, TDY, leave, deployed….I laugh HARD when you post about all these things I am doing wrong then see the right in the real topic in here….laugh my flipping cartwheeling butt off!
You are so ugly inside, you dont’ deserve a response to me and certainly not a thought out one, so, I will just settle with, you are a tiny little clueless fool…..and REALLY STUPID TO THINK METZGER COULD BE TELLING THE TRUTH…..hey, be careful for bombs being put in your back pocket……pathetic
I am starting to think Jethro is Jill Metzger!!!
Jill, is that YOU????? Come on Jeth/Jill tell us the TRUTH.
Now don’t be “mad”, we all pay taxes too and even though you are clueless, perhaps find some room to tell us your version of what really happened during those days…..
I am starting to think Jethro is Jill Metzger!!!
Jill, is that YOU????? Come on Jeth/Jill tell us the TRUTH.
Now don’t be “mad”, we all pay taxes too and even though you are clueless, perhaps find some room to tell us your version of what really happened during those days…..
Jeth: Throwing in some humor: Now, under your own demanding words – aren’t I not innocent until proven guilty?? hmm, I say something and you immediately speculate and theorize about me, wow, amazingly like the Metzger situation. She says things and people speculate and theorize and put together the puzzle – wow! So, I say things and you speculate about me and put together some strange puzzle – wow! FUN! So, perhaps you should PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH because HILLBILLY GIRLIE, in your own words – I’m innocent until proven guilty! 🙂 FUN! So, before you have the REAL FACTS, think before you speak…
“
Valid points…. there have been some posters on here with pretty rigid agendas (Kuba et al. Many folks initially ate up all the dirty rumours but when Kuba’s anti American statements became more apparent, it quickly clouded his credibility with many… and that of his media sources too.
I can only guess that the Embassy folks wanted to get this high profile American citizen into US protection immediately and didn’t want to expose her to Kyrgyz authorities. Perhaps there is no SOFA agreement or if there is, perhaps the SOFA agreement isn’t favorable to Americans (military).
Perhaps the US Gov’t has reason to believe that JM wouldn’t receive due process if she were found to be involved in anything illegal… I don’t know. It is common for the US to seek the authority to retain custody rights for issues dealing with AMCITS overseas.
Posted by: IKJ at October 12, 2006 11:25 AM
“
There is nothing wee bit wrong with me. Yes, I started abortion rumors because I heard them in Bishkek. I reported here about those rumors. Rumors fill in information vacuum. Abortion seem to be explaining many inconsistencies in JM story.
How that can be anti American? IKJ, if you have alternative explanation, come on, smite me with factual evidence.
Info on SOFA agreement between Kyrgyzstan and US:
All US Military personnel in Manas airbase enjoy diplomatic immunity under Kyrgyz-US treaty.
There were several cases of drink and driving by US Military personnel 3-4 years ago, resulting in number of pedestrians in Bishkek being killed and injured.
US Embassy quickly moved militaries out of the crime scene to Germany.
Since then, regulations were imposed in Manas airbase that no US Military personnel allowed to drive vehicles in Kyrgyzstan outside of airbase by themselves. Instead, they all have to hire local drivers now.
Kyrgyz police could no way force Jill Metzger to stay. Because, she was protected under status of diplomatic immunity. It was her and US embassie’s choice to help or not to help to Kyrgyz police to find her alleged abductors.
After Jill Metzger’s case Kyrgyz Government is considering to revoke the status of diplomatic immunity from US military personnel, because of legal complications that is causing, as far as I know.
Kuba, any agreements entered into pertinent to the status of military members in a hosting country fall short of providing diplomatic immunity. Immunity is incorrect as depending on the severity of the crime and whether it happens on installation or off installation determines how the host nation agrees to allow it to be dealt with. The host nation typically expects the right thing be done pertinent to criminal justice being served.
Immunity especially diplomatic immunity is too strong of a descriptor as military members are not diplomats and are not given immunity from wrong doing, especially criminal wrong doing. However, it does not surprise me if current agreements are under hosting nation revision consideration as result of the Major Metzger incident.
johca / Kuba —
I haven’t found the contents of the US / Kyrgyzstan SOFA, but it is astonishing what they’ve agreed to with other countries like South Korea and Australia. Here’s an excerpt from the Australian SOFA:
Obligations
12. The proposed Agreement provides that Australian personnel are accorded a status equivalent to that of `administrative and technical staff’ under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations1961. Accordingly, and in addition to the express terms of the Agreement, the Kyrgyz republic shall afford Australian personnel the privileges and immunities due to them under that Convention. These include the following key matters:
* Members shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention;
* The receiving State shall treat members with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on the members person, freedom or dignity;
* Immunity from criminal jurisdiction;
* Immunity from civil jurisdiction in certain circumstances;
* Exemption from most taxes, in particular any taxes on salary;
* Exemption from compulsory military service in the receiving State;
* Exemption from certain customs duties, taxes and related charges;
13. The Agreement sets out conditions concerning the rights of ADF personnel and their access to facilities when in the Kyrgyz Republic. These conditions include the following matters:
* Entry and exit
* ADF personnel shall be permitted to enter and exit the Kyrgyz Republic with Australian identification and with collective movement or individual travel orders.
* Driving licences and laws
* The Kyrgyz Republic shall accept as valid, without a driving fee or test, driving licenses or permits issued by appropriate Australian authorities for the operation of vehicles.
* Wearing of Uniforms and Carriage of arms
* ADF personnel are permitted to wear their uniforms while performing official duties.
* ADF personnel are authorized to possess and carry arms in accordance with their orders.
Great info find ijosha.
Immunity from criminal jurisdiction does not bring with it immunity from criminal justice corrective actions for doing the criminal deed. It just identifies who has jurisdiction and responsibility to charge a person with a criminal offense, prosecute the person, and if evidence demonstrates quilt convict and punish appropriately. The immunity from jurisdiction brings with it and imposes on the United States Government a significant moral and legal obligation to make better the wrong the best it can to the victims. Such incidents involving immunity from criminal jurisdiction also brings with it potential of much political change and thus immunity from jurisdiction often fails to bring with it immunity from criminal justice corrective and punitive action.
In previous comment disclosed what I thought the most probable offenses as identified in the Manual for Courts Martial. It will be most interesting to see which offenses are actually charged and prosecuted.
Appropriate UCMJ articles appear to be:
Article 86 Unauthorized Absence
Article 92 Failure to Obey Order or Regulation
Article 107 False Official Statements
Article 133 Conduct Unbecoming of an Officer and a Gentleman
Article 134 Adultery
Article 134 False Swearing
Article 134 Fraternization (may or may not be applicable-just can not be ruled out)
Article 134 Self Injury without intent to avoid service
Cheers to you ijosha for that info.
Johca – I’ll explain more on situation with diplomatic immunity thing.
Kyrgyzstan was already a member of Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), and Collective Security Treaty Organization (military bloc), which included Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, China, etc., when USA asked Kyrgyzstan for a land for airbase for anti terror campaign.
Kyrgyzstan was already bound by terms of Collective Security Treaty Organization, or Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) treaty terms, that Kyrgystan is bound to have only military bases of participant countries of Collective Security Treaty Organization and SCO.
As a workaround, US suggested to Kyrgyzstan US military personnel to be accounted as members of US Diplomatic Service staff.
Hence, Diplomatic Immunity to all personnel in US airbase.
Some Info:
Collective Security Treaty Organization
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization
http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Comment/OpEd/050906_oxford.html
Shanghai Cooperation Organization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organization
Kuba–great info. I was aware of some of this but had not realized what else it impacted and influenced. Certainly-so indicates how much more complicated than just a series personal misfortunate events this incident is.
Kuba, ijosha & johca: Great info. and comments.
Been away for a while and sounds like not much new on the issue.
Anyone know where the Grand Jury JM supposedly testified before was (DC, Atlanta, etc)?
Anyone know if her DH is with her and Mom/Dad or back in FL?
Just curious.
Shrink: I was wondering same about DH-Is he back to work or still off? And, I thought Jill was to be returning to work (accordng to Stars and Stripes 9/27/06 article) sometime in early October. I wonder if she is returning while she is being investigated by the FBI or if they will wait until it quietly goes away?
Any thoughts?
She will probably have a profile when she returns to work… PULHES=211114
Can’t imagine where they’re going to ‘stick’ her?
My “source” says that JM is not on leave any longer… so, I ‘guess’ she’s at work in some capacity or another.
Oh, btw: her duty title (as of about 2 weeks ago) was removed. I think she WAS the MPF commander at Moody. MPF= Military Personnel Flight.
In all fairness, she might have been slated to move from that position to another spot in the Squadron or Group anyway. It’s common to have a few jobs during one tour at a base.
Just a cut and paste from the MCM. If misconduct caused a medical condition and pursuing medical treatment from an unapproved source of medical care resulted in further misconduct, it would be most interesting on explanation of why or why not this offense was not charged and prosecuted. Not to mention why or why not a line of duty deternination was not done pertient to the medical condition and treatment not obtained through primary medical care providor coordination and approval.
103a. Article 134–(Self-injury without intent
to avoid service)
a. Text. See paragraph 60.
b. Elements.
(1) That the accused intentionally inflicted injury
upon himself or herself;
(2) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
[Note: If the offense was committed in time of war or in a hostile fire pay zone, add the following element]
(3) That the offense was committed (in time of war) (in a hostile fire pay zone).
c. Explanation.
(1) Nature of offense. This offense differs from malingering (see paragraph 40) in that for this offense, the accused need not have harbored a design to avoid performance of any work, duty, or service which may properly or normally be expected of one in the military service. This offense is characterized by intentional self-injury under such circumstances as prejudice good order and discipline or discredit the armed forces. It is not required that the accused be unable to perform duties, or that the accused actually be absent from his or her place of duty as a result of the injury. For example, the accused may inflict the injury while on leave or pass. The circumstances and extent of injury, however, are relevant to a determination that the accused’s conduct was prejudicial to good order and discipline, or service-discrediting.
(2) How injury inflicted. The injury may be inflicted by nonviolent as well as by violent means and may be accomplished by any act or omission that produces, prolongs, or aggravates a sickness or disability. Thus, voluntary starvation that results in a debility is a self-inflicted injury. Similarly, the injury may be inflicted by another at the accused’s request.
d. Lesser included offense. Article 80–attempts
e. Maximum punishment.
(1) Intentional self-inflicted injury. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.
(2) Intentional self-inflicted injury in time of war or in hostile fire pay zone. Dishonorable discharge forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.
f. Sample specification.
In that (personal jurisdiction
data), did, (at/on board–location) (in a hostile fire pay zone) on or about ___________ (a time of war, ) intentionally injured himself/herself by (nature and circumstances of injury).
Doc: What is “PULHES=211114”? Is is some sort of PC3 code?
Yes, DocHolidaze’s profile assessment is interesting and probably right. Jill will be “4T” probably with the “4” coming under the psychiatric part of the profile. She’s probably still undergoing evaluation and treatment for her “post-traumatic stress”. I doubt she has a formal psychiatric diagnosis at this point. 4T status would not allow her to deploy world-wide; she’d have to stay in the CONUS. She can remain in 4T status up to a year before a medical board to determine her continued fitness to serve would be REQUIRED.
ijosha, johca, and Kuba – that’s great information!
If Metzger is suffering from serious trauma as her father said, they probably won’t let her back to work until she seems psychologically fit to do so.
Don’t know where the grand jury was held, but Fox News reported that the “the center of the investigation appears to be the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Virginia in Alexandria”.
P= physical problem
U= upper extremity problem
L= lower extremity problem
H= hearing problem
E= eyes problem
S= psychiatic problem
A score of “1” means there is no problem in this area. “2” is a minor problem that doesn’t affect duty. “3” is a moderate problem that affects duty in some way. “4” is a severe problem that will not allow member to perform duty so as to be world-wide qualified.
PULHES is the acronym for the Military Physical Profile Serial System.
Each letter stands for body system with S being psych. Numbers are assigned to each category based on the physical limitations a person may have. I believe 4 is threshold. 1 being topfit..
P= Gen Physical
U= Upper extremities
L= Lower extremities
H= Hearing
E= Eyes
S= Psych
Doc: What is “PULHES=211114”? Is is some sort of PC3 code?
Author: IKJ
PULHES is known as physical profile. It is a 1 to 4 rating in each area. 1 is best and 4 is worst. A ‘4’ in any area is medically unfit for medical service.
P=Physical capacity or stamina
U=Upper extremities
L=Lower extremities
H=Hearing
E=Eyes
S=Psychiatric
Well… nothing like having two of everything!
Make that THREE of everything!!!
wrote that before I saw IKJ’s posting that she wasn’t on leave any longer.
At least all 3 of us said the same thing. That’s a rarity in the military.
Diplomatic immunity? Wow, that’s a shocker if its true. I’ve never heard of that… and I’ve done a lot of traveling… a lot. I don’t know enough about the status to dispute or build that argument.
My assumption would have been that if Kyrgyz alliance commitments prevented US basing then the the US wouldn’t be able to base there under the guise of “diplomacy”. Perhaps if the basing was for medical support only then perhaps… but we use Manas for much more than that.
I believe we’re allowed to be there because cash is more influential than a mutual security pact with two countries unable or unwilling to do much for them. Plus, both the Russian and Chinese governments are having to find ways to combat the emerging Islamic terrorist themselves. If the US wants to come in and destroy “terrorist university” then I don’t think China and Russia will have much of a problem with that. Granted, there is a certain amount of concern having the world’s only superpower in their backyard. In fact, there has been some elements of support from both countries (more from Russia, however).
VR….
I foresee this as a medboard action with PTSD. Medical Release from AD/ Perm Disability / collect VA Benefits / AND…. Disability Comp.
Is RICO still around???… maybe we could send her up on that!!
Reference AFI 36-2910, Line of Duty (Misconduct) Determination
1.1. The Line Of Duty (LOD) Determination and Its Objective. A service member who dies or sustains an illness, injury, or disease either while absent from duty, or due to his or her own misconduct, stands to lose substantial government benefits. An LOD determination is a finding made after an investigation into the circumstances of a member’s illness, injury, disease or death. The finding concludes (1) whether or not the illness, injury, or disease existed prior to service (EPTS) and if an EPTS condition was aggravated by military service, (2) whether or not the illness, injury, disease, or death occurred while the member was absent from duty and (3) whether or not the illness, injury, disease or death was due to the member’s own misconduct. The LOD determination protects the interests of both the member and the United States Government.
1.2.1. Disability Retirement and Severance Pay. A member’s entitlement to disability compensation from the Air Force may be lost or reduced if the disability occurred during a period of unauthorized absence or resulted from the member’s own misconduct.
1.2.4. Veteran Benefits. The Department of Veteran Affairs may use a member’s official military records, including an LOD determination, when determining veteran benefits. (Title 38, U.S.C. Section: 1110, Wartime Disability Compensation, Basic Entitlement; 1131, Peacetime Disability Compensation Veterans’ Benefits).
1.5. When an LOD Determination is Required. The LOD determination process must be initiated when a member, whether hospitalized or not, has an illness, injury or disease that results in:
1.5.1. The death of a member. In every case where a member dies on active duty, at a minimum, an AF Form 348 must be completed. An administrative determination is not sufficient in a case of death.
1.5.2. The member’s inability to perform military duties for more than 24 hours,
1.5.3. The likelihood of a permanent disability, or
1.9.4. Not in Line of Duty, Due to Own Misconduct. A formal investigation determined that the member’s illness, injury, disease, or death was proximately caused by the member’s own misconduct. If the member’s illness, injury, disease, or death occurred both while the member was absent from duty and was proximately caused by the member’s own misconduct, the case should be finalized as Not in Line of Duty, Due to Own Misconduct.
VR……….
What are the chances… hmmmmmm.. of say BiPolar 1?
DocH—
Hmmm….I think she will be administratively discharged Dishonorably because I think she did something bad wrong. I don’t think her bogus psychiatric condition will come into play with her discharge. I don’t know about collecting disability after one is Dishonorably discharged; can that happen? What is RICO? That’s a new one on me.
VR/DM/Jocha/Doc:
Thanks… there’s always more to learn. I’ve been in the AF for 14 years and had no idea what that meant. Heck, my last assignment was as the Wing CP Chief w/ about 50 folks working for me and I still wasn’t exposed to it. oh well… next time I get cocky then remind me of the one, single snipit of GK that I had not yet mastered. 🙂
– that last sentence was humor for my “sensitive” friends
The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act…
Holy Hooplah… I told these people I don’t want any more patients for the rest of the day… don’t they understand Russian?!!!
AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 44-157, MEDICAL EVALUATION BOARDS (MEB) AND CONTINUED MILITARY SERVICE
1.1. The purpose of the Medical Evaluation Board. In order to maintain a fit and vital force, the Secretary of the Air Force relies on disability laws to remove active duty and Air Reserve Component (Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard) members who can no longer perform their military duties because of a mental or physical defect. The Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) is the first step in the Air Force disability evaluation process to determine who is not worldwide qualified.
1.4.3. Legal proceedings against a member may require a sanity determination as specified in the Manual for Courts Martial (MCM) or current legal decisions. This determination is conducted by a sanity board. If the psychiatric findings bring into doubt the member’s qualification for worldwide service or competency for pay or records, then an MEB must be convened.
1.4.10. Members under court martial charges are not eligible for disability processing unless there is a question of mental capacity or responsibility or when member’s sentence of dismissal or punitive discharge is suspended.
3.1. Responsibilities. It is the responsibility of all Medical Corps officers to identify service members whose qualification for worldwide duty is in doubt and refer them for medical board action within 30 days of making a definitive diagnosis. The Medical Corps officer initiates notification of an MEB action via AF Form 570, Notification of Patient’s Medical Status, and forward it to the action officer (PEBLO).
3.3. Line of Duty Determination. An AF Form 348, Line of Duty Determination (LOD), will be completed when misconduct, negligence, or AWOL may have occurred or when a member has a disease or injury which results in an inability to perform military duty for more than 24 hours, or there is the likelihood of permanent disability. AFI 36-2910, Line of Duty Misconduct Determinations provides instruction on LOD determinations as does Paragraph 3.20 of this instruction.
DocH—
Hmmm….I think she will be administratively discharged Dishonorably….
Posted by: VR
IMO, She should most likely be punitively discharged for criminal misconduct and be given either bad conduct, dishonorable/dismissal. She might get lucky and get a other-than-honorable discharge. The discharge mentioned typically completely lack eligibility for veterans benefits through the VA.
Doc: Excellent theory! Bi-polar. I understand this happens during chemical imbalances in the brain which could have been a result of stress, training for the marathon and depleting her body of many nutrients it needed as a result of being so thin. However, would that cause one to leave the mall and declare abduction? I am not very familiar with the entire capacities of Bi-polar. Chemically imbalanced enough to make up stories? but then why missing for 3 days??? ugh
Enjoying the comments and learing some new stuff…
Hey guys. start paying attention to the news as of today 13 Oct 06. More information is about to drop on Jill. Keep in mind “abortion”.
I laugh in the face of all who stood beside her.
some1whono, it’s nice to know that there are people who could be so callous as to laugh at the husband, family, and friends who love someone enough to stand by them in a difficult time.
This posting from johca above is really interesting, and something I didn’t know:
1.4.3. Legal proceedings against a member may require a sanity determination as specified in the Manual for Courts Martial (MCM) or current legal decisions. This determination is conducted by a sanity board. If the psychiatric findings bring into doubt the member’s qualification for worldwide service or competency for pay or records, then an MEB must be convened.
I’ve never heard of a “sanity board”. How bizarre. She’s SANE enough, of course, to understand legal proceedings against her; but then again she very well MAY HAVE one of those (often) iffy psychiatric diagnoses that can be (mis)used as a reason to boot irritating people out of the military: a personality disorder; PTSD; bipolar disorder. If so, would she then be able to AVOID military legal proceedings? “I’m too mentally ill to be punished”?????? She would then be medically separated and would qualify for all kinds of benefits. A very interesting possibility. Her best bet would be to start seeing little green men NOW.
she has not been at work. she’s in washington as part of her investigation.
some1: any idea if she is being ‘watched’? Is she considered a flight risk or is this being treated as a TDY to support the investigation?
Just curious as to the general ‘air’ of the situation. Is hubby w/ her?
“I am not very familiar with the entire capacities of Bi-polar. Chemically imbalanced enough to make up stories? but then why missing for 3 days???”
I listed the symptoms of bipolar below-what is interested is that you can have a mild form of mania called hypomania and a mild form of depression, thus this can go undiagnosed for years. People can be in denial for years and be in a successful career while treatment with medication and counseling would help them tremendously (although there is a stigma attached to a label and treatment).
When people are “manic” they can do things that are quite uncharacteristic of them and go missing for days…drinking, maybe with a paramour, perhaps gambling (I don’t know if that is available there) or heck, maybe she was just out running her 35 miles, over and over!
From National Institute of Mental Health:
Bipolar is characterized by periods of mania (sometimes more subtle and sometimes more severe) that can but don’t have to include:
* Increased energy, activity, and restlessness
* Excessively “high,” overly good, euphoric mood
* Extreme irritability
* Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another
* Distractibility, can’t concentrate well
* Little sleep needed
* Unrealistic beliefs in one’s abilities and powers
* Poor judgment
* Spending sprees
* A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual
* Increased sexual drive
* Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications
* Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior
* Denial that anything is wrong
Alternated with periods of depression that can include:
* Lasting sad, anxious, or empty mood
* Feelings of hopelessness or pessimism
* Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness
* Loss of interest or pleasure in activities once enjoyed, including sex
* Decreased energy, a feeling of fatigue or of being “slowed down”
* Difficulty concentrating, remembering, making decisions
* Restlessness or irritability
* Sleeping too much, or can’t sleep
* Change in appetite and/or unintended weight loss or gain
* Chronic pain or other persistent bodily symptoms that are not caused by physical illness or injury
* Thoughts of death or suicide, or suicide attempts
DM….
I’m not one who is “callous”, however, there is a difference between standing by someone, and denying the possibility/probablility of something that may be very, very, wrong ‘with the picture’.
For her Father: I understand wanting to ‘protect’ his daughter, but don’t lie to me about what happened.
For her Husband: If you can live and love past this, you have my undying admiration.
For her “Friends”: Be careful how you attack people who are curious and want to understand the unreasonable tales told by your ‘friend’.
DM… get past the “FEELING” and start thinking. Compassion, sympathy, and empathy will have their place. BUT, first let us get past all the lies.
From what i understand, not to many of her family and friends are standing by her. She went to another country and got knocked up by a local national. Three days before her departure date she tried to go and get an abortion and gets caught past curfew so came up with a lie stating she was kidnapped having everyone here on Moody worried sick (yeah, she was my old commander) just to find out that she made the whole thing up so her husband wouldn’t find out that she cheated on him.
Julie:
Good info, thanks. When you post stuff like that, I just feel so enlightened and energetic and ready to take on the world with my newly learned information.
But then I realize that I’ve been following this blog for over a month and I feel like a cyber-geek who has nothing better to do with my life.
ummm… so how about them Bears?
nah, she’s being investigated. And soon (really soon) charged.
Thats what im talking about.
5-0 I see at least a 14-2 season. We will get to the NFC championship game.
Wizbanger Poster, I’ve never claimed to be a friend of Metzger’s.
“there is a difference between standing by someone, and denying the possibility/probablility of something that may be very, very, wrong ‘with the picture’.”
Whether she’s telling the truth or not, it’s hardly “friendly” to be disdainful of her husband, family, and friends for loving and supporting her, thus I called it callous.
“Compassion, sympathy, and empathy will have their place. BUT, first let us get past all the lies.” See, I feel that they have their place now. Even if you don’t think they should apply to Metzger, certainly they apply to her husband and family.
Oh, and I will continue to think AND feel.