Note: This post is now closed to new comments. The Metzger discussion will continue in our new Wizbang Forum, where there is a thread devoted to Metzger. Registration is required to post on our new vBulliten powered forums. We’re fairly certain that the new forum system will be more practical for this type of extended discussion…
In the coming weeks we’ll updated to look of the forums to more closely match the new Wizbang design.
I not discounting any theories as of yet. But with the abortion scenario one would think her husband would be long gone by now.
Can the USAF make him stay silent until they make the findings public? Is he actually with her?
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Lets ask Kuba: What is Idol Hanz – Chinese, Vietnamese, Kryg with a bad accent???? help us out here…
Deb G
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DM
it doesn’t sound like he is an American, referring to the Kyrgyz as “we”…
“Silly girl Air Force major tell big lie story! She insult good Kyrgyz people! She go home now and take suitcase with her! She say Kyrgyz bandit robbed her but we see big diamond on hand! What you think, we stupid!? We no know value diamond! You Americans all go home now! You wreck Kyrgyz President Airplane last week! You American all walking and flying disaster, need new home! You send silly girl big lie story Major to fight war, now Kyrgyz warlord laugh at you! You lose war! You all go home now! We want money for airplane you wreck and damage for slander you make against good Kyrgyz people! You send big gas airplane that wreck into our airplane! We want new airplane now! You pack suitcase now. You 2 time charlie, you no good!
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Idol Hanz is American, and he is native English speaker, I have no doubt on that. His fake Kyrgyz-English is awesome. 🙂 And he is not Chinese or Vietnamese, he is WASP. I’m 99.99 percent sure on that.
“You send big gas airplane”
Was Idol Hanz European or British, he could have put it differently like “You send big petrol airplane”
Kuba………. Privet!!
Yes, I met the test…I did/have read all the posts to this point. More importantly…I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
It’s been an interesting transition of viewpoint for myself. From concern to intrigue to disdain to outrage. All appear to have been misplaced…or not. After I slapped myself (figuratively), I thought about what really matters and tried to put this blog in context.
1. Jill Metzger is OK
2. It doesn’t appear to be a universal threat to US troops
3. Nobody …I mean the American Public, (except those on this blog), appears to care about the case (except for FBI below)
4. The Justice department will evaluate the merits of Jill’s abducton
So, despite the “headline news” aspects of the Jill Metzger story, we are left with little to work with. This is an outstanding case study for viability of rumor as a function of ambiguity and importance. This formula is from Gordon Allport’s book ” The Psychology of Rumor.” It is an outstanding study of rumor…but particularly during war (a separate discussion).
So, what do we “know,” what is “conjecture,” and what is “malicious?”
That has become my framework for discussion of this topic…
If Jill was beaten up badly, like her dad says, how she was able to strike her captor and able to run for miles? Something is wrong here.
Abductors, who were able to stick a credit card sized bomb in Jill’s back pocket and induce a trance, would have come up with something more sophisticated than simple butchering.
Let’s stick to abduction scenario for the time being…
Thousands of Peace Corps volunteers in Kyrgyzstan are at risk in Kyrgyzstan, if abduction did happen. They immediately should be moved to safe place, for the time being, say, to US airbase tent city. Is this happening? No. Why?
Why Jill refused to help Kyrgyz police to find her abductors? Now it’s too late to search for them.
>Abductors, who were able to stick a credit card sized bomb in Jill’s back pocket and induce a trance, would have come up with something more sophisticated than simple butchering.
>Why Jill refused to help Kyrgyz police to find her abductors? Now it’s too late to search for them.
Just my uninformed thoughts: I do not know that Jill refused to help. I also do not believe that it is “too late” to catch abductors given good information.
IMHO: If Jill was abducted, the Kyrgyz govt should “bend over backward” to help solve the case and resolve any perception of threats to US troops despite any hurt feelings. However politics prevail, and I cannot assume to know the environment.
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– Article written as though she testified for court to issue indictment for some Kyrgyz person in absentia
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Who is that person? Surgeon? Abductor? Drug Dealer? More details on that one, please?
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Just my uninformed thoughts: I do not know that Jill refused to help. I also do not believe that it is “too late” to catch abductors given good information.
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http://federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=82&sid=906543
A U.S. servicewoman who reappeared as mysteriously as she vanished gave confused accounts of her three-day absence and refused to make further statements after consulting with the U.S. Embassy, a Kyrgyz police official said Monday.
Metzger was flown out of Kyrgyzstan within a few hours of her reappearance and was admitted Sunday to a U.S. military hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. There was no immediate word on what she was being treated for or how long she would remain hospitalized; officials had previously said she did not appear to have suffered serious injury during her disappearance.
Kyrgyz authorities have said her swift departure could impede their investigation, because they wanted to question her further to clarify her account. According to investigators, Metzger said an object with a note saying it was a bomb was placed in her pocket in a Bishkek department store and that she was kidnapped after following the note’s instructions on where to go.
“It seemed to me that her testimony was little believable; she was confused in her evidence,” Batmirza Dzhailobayev, head of the Kant police department, told The Associated Press.
“After she spoke with somebody from the embassy, she categorically refused to give testimony. Then people from the U.S. Embassy took her away,” he said.
Someone please pinch me, am I dreaming this “Jill Metzger” story? Feels like that I am in trance.
Things getting surreal now. I am going to sew my back pocket up before I go to TSUM department store, I am afraid of back pocket bombs.
But why those bastard abductors not abducting anyone else? Why they were particularly unkind on Jill? Am I safe now? Maybe they are changing their minds and planning to abduct me right now?
The 10-16-2006 edition of he Air Force Times went to press at least a week ago. It was only on 6 October that it was disclosed a criminal investigation was being launched by the justice department and this announcement had a significant non-disclosures of any facts other than anonymous opinion of an investigator of the facts of the explanation don’t add up with a subsequent statement of “If she was kidnapped in Bishkek, the investigation likely would be centered there.” The absence of any official press release is more revealing of the depth of the possible scandal as the absence harms allow for speculation and even worse cause’s uncertainty of any asserted explanation. It is much easier to maintain one’s reputation for honesty than regain it once it has been lost. The lack of official press release strongly indicates extraordinary need to ensure correct information is given and to limit how much must be disclosed to verify it is correct, accurate, and complete.
So yes, I do consider the impact of my posted comments on the military and Major Metzger’s family and I have no remorse or regret for the comments I chose to make. Honor pertains to self-control and self-discipline not to engage in certain types of acts. Unfortunately the incident included deeds done by a specific person that puts her honor and the honor of her familiy name into question. If it was abduction and escape as asserted, the lack of official confirmation that this is so and the explanation given is truthful is what is putting the honor of the Metzger family in question. My comments are only the symptom of lack of fairness in timely release of information. Yes I have made mistakes and will do so again, however I took and I take responsibility for my deeds of mistake.
Recent comments bring some new perspectives into the cause of what happened.
Working at a Bikini car wash has no relevance other than is it still in operation so this dirty old man can get his car washed there and if I can get a cheap thrill if I put the tip in the bikini. The willingness to wash a car in a bikini has no similarity and little relevance to the behavior involved in this situation unless certain other deeds were done having little to do with washing the car. It is not rarity to see scantly clad young girls working fund raising car washes.
Performance enhancing steroid use by a military member is as illegal and as punishable as using illegal drugs illegally. Not sure of what steroids are looked for in the urine samples, but do know such use is looked for in the samples collected. Length in service does not eliminate anybody from being a user of illegal recreational drugs and illegal steroids. A look at the misconduct separations will show users found in many ranks and grades and having served long time military obligations.
I found most interesting the assertion she lost 17 pounds during her disappearance, from 107 pounds to 90 pounds. My curiosity of this weight loss has little to do with the pregnancy speculation but rather to the claim she is in excellent physical health. More specifically her meeting healthy minimum weight standards for her height. A weight of 90 pounds is below minimum healthy height-weight standard suitable for military service. In fact her height would need to be between 58 inches and 64 inches for a maximum weight of 110 pounds to be considered a healthy minimum weight suitable for performing military duties. The weight of being 110 pounds further puts into question of claim she physically overpowered a guard sufficiently to prevent any conscious effort to sound the alarm of her escape or to pursue her.
“her captors “beat her up real bad, had a rope around her neck, her face black and blue”. He also said the rope left abrasions on her neck.” As responding paramedic to domestic violence crime scenes and many a bar fight-I see no evidence presented in photograph or official press release of “being beat up real bad. Rope abrasions around neck is very specific and the anatomy of the neck would reveal much on how exactly the abrasions were caused and the intent of using a rope in that manner. The weight of between 110 to 90 ponds indicate lack of body fat and consequently forceful trauma and rope around neck would leave significant signs. The continued absence of official confirmation such signs of injury were found indicates scandal.
I’m not throwing stones, but I am discussing most peculiar information that causes questions.
But why those bastard abductors not abducting anyone else? Why they were particularly unkind on Jill? Am I safe now? Maybe they are changing their minds and planning to abduct me right now?
Posted by: Kuba Kyrgyz
A scenario not suggested is the abduction was an act of personal vengeance otherwise known as work place violence.
This scenario would require that the Major in the performance of her duties or in her personal life had to take some sort of action against another that they would personally seek retribution for the wrong they believed was done to them. It would require the person she acted against being so upset over it that vengeance was wanted so they would either personally abduct her or pay others to do the deed.
Major Mitzger would have to have some direct connection of importance to the person making the decision to abduct her. The how, where, and when of the abduction has little suggesting being a random action of opportunity. Criminals do deeds for profit and social and political extremists do things to make statement or to gain something. No demand and no claim of group being responsible for the kidnapping. No official explanations, consequently the speculation.
———-Jocha
All the elements to this case are so – out of character – for any similar act that I know of. Not necessarily the act against Jill ‘OJ’ Metzger, but the entire episode!!!
It’s as if someone were sitting somewhere with a scenario laid out to see if ‘we’ could point out all of the elements which are not ‘real’.
It kinda reminds me of some of my early training. Scout out a situation and take notes on what is going on.. what’s right and what’s not – in order to prevent a potentially dangerous move…
It’s uncanny!
Johca:
“Working at a Bikini car wash has no relevance…”
True, but so does ohhh 90%+ of all the posts in this topic area… to include many of yours. I didn’t say or imply that it was relevant to this case but it does build upon the the big “R”… reputation that Jill apparently cared so much about. All it (the comment) was really intended to do was act as a “Factoid” that would hopefully distract the moronic bickering between “tweedle dee and tweedle dum”.
Being heroic or demonstrating heroism is not being fearless; it is the purpose of the act and the willingness to do it despite serious pain, significant harm or risk to one’s well-being or even one’s life. The willingness to accomplish the extremely difficult and extraordinary despite serious pain, significant harm or risk to one’s well-being or even one’s life is the possession of courage.
Anonymously expressing opinion with no means of being held accountable has no similarity in deed to being heroic or need to possess courage. I perceive no dangers here as supposedly the conversation is assessment of the peculiarity of an incident and its situations and circumstances that are not similar to other known incidents.
Regarding the investigations into the abduction incident. Inquiry into personal responsibility for personal actions of Major Metzger cannot be avoided. She was either a voluntary or non-voluntary participant. If voluntary was it deliberate or spontaneous. If non-voluntary was any consequence under her control in those events happening with her ignorance or her being under duress. If it was with ignorance was her behavior such that she exercised no reasonable caution that would have allowed her to avoid being abducted.
What strikes me most contradictory is she lacked autonomy and self direction when a bomb and note found in pocket put her into a trance where she had no rational ability to control her actions. Then when drugged and apparently after being badly beaten she finds both self-direction and courage to physically overpower her capture or guard and then travel at night across terrain in an area she has never before seen. Being an accidental hero is possible; I just don’t see the courage or the heroism in this explanation that makes it probable.
Johca:
True, but so does ohhh 90%+ of all the posts in this topic area… to include many of yours.
Posted by: IKJ
Perhaps–time, however, will tell. But shame comes with improper action and fear of ridicule and disapproval and remorse happens on recognizing action results in harms to others. I have confidence my comments have not harmed another and if I had fear of ridicule and disapproval I would not have made any comments to begin with.
A sage once said;
“never argue with fools, bystanders won’t know who is who”
ijosha: Was thinking you had a theory involving intel and/or drugs – sounded plausible and was looking forward to a new theory. I agree with you on not having enough to go by and knowing “medication” can induce garbled words and thoughts, the possibility is there. I also know that anesthesia can cause people to say some STRANGE things while under – even confessing secrets and making up stories so who knows. Even if there was no abortion and she was for some reason at some point kidnapped – she could have been given valium or some mental warbling drug which caused her story. I’m still sticking with the abortion theory and that holds no harm to anyone. It is just like trying to figure out why the Yankee Pictcher’s plane just slammed into that highrise building – why did he take such a sharp turn into a large building? why was he in that location? why was he flying much lower than he should have been? why – people are just curious as to why some things happen – human nature. I am mostly curious as to the whys with Metzger because I was one of the fools in the world who said prayers for her safe return thinking she was abducted and worse things could have happened. Now. to think none of this might be true and I have been deceived and betrayed is enough to peak my mind to WHY….
Kuba: Thanks for the interpretation!!! Whatever he may be, Idol Hanz is pretty dang smart and well, right on point……
Johca: GREAT post.
Kuba: You’re funny 🙂
Wiz: There are so many elements here that are not real, thus, the intense curiosity, and I thought trying to figure out who shot JFK was challenging. I can picture folks from this blog, in a room, big conference table, putting together facts and pieces, taking pieces out, putting more in…..
“It’s as if someone were sitting somewhere with a scenario laid out to see if ‘we’ could point out all of the elements which are not ‘real’.” – Wizbanger Poster
I find it interesting that so many people are questioning Metzger but none questioning the sources of the information. Where did the “shaved head/lying in a ditch” story come from? It must have come from somewhere official because it was relayed via the military to her husband and family. Who is the source of this story and why did they make it up? People (not all here, but most) are quick to rip apart the inconsistencies in Metzger’s story but not so interested in questioning, for example, the different accounts between the Kyrgyz police and the woman who called them regarding the appearance of her face. I also don’t see anyone jumping at my invitation to theorize about the Embassy’s reasons to pull her out of Kyrgyzstan so quickly. Sure, making up dirty little stories about sex, adultery, abortion, and drugs can be fun for some, but where are the theories about other aspects of the story? Several people have stated in one way or another that this is a board for “discourse” and “discussion” as to what happened to Jill Metzger. And some people are actually engaged in a thoughful discourse. But for the most part it reads more like the transcript of a convention of amatuer trash novel writers.
O.K., DM — I’ll bite… Why do you suppose the Embassy had her pulled so quickly?
——O
That was Felix Giordano, and he wasn’t a sage, and you misquoted him… he said: “Never argue with an idiot. Bystanders won’t know which is which.”
He’s a ‘would be’ artist from South Philly, probably suffered from BiPolar disorder – based on how he lived.
ijosha, I’ll be honest at the risk of making myself vulnerable to alot of criticism – I don’t know enough about the workings of the Embassy yet to form a theory (I’m not going to throw theories out there purely based on my imagination.) But there are some people here who have different experiences than I do, and I wonder what they think.
DM:
Valid points…. there have been some posters on here with pretty rigid agendas (Kuba et al. Many folks initially ate up all the dirty rumours but when Kuba’s anti American statements became more apparent, it quickly clouded his credibility with many… and that of his media sources too.
I can only guess that the Embassy folks wanted to get this high profile American citizen into US protection immediately and didn’t want to expose her to Kyrgyz authorities. Perhaps there is no SOFA agreement or if there is, perhaps the SOFA agreement isn’t favorable to Americans (military).
Perhaps the US Gov’t has reason to believe that JM wouldn’t receive due process if she were found to be involved in anything illegal… I don’t know. It is common for the US to seek the authority to retain custody rights for issues dealing with AMCITS overseas.
—-Deb C.
My point in posting what I did…is simple… NONE of what happened makes any sense!! It’s all too stupid to be real!
That’s not to say that it didn’t happen – just that ‘how’ things happened is all a tad bizzare!
What she did
What the Military did
What the Embassy did
What the Kyrgyz did
The protocol for all these agencies! Especially the Am Embassy does not include getting involved in civil or criminal situations!! Check out State Dept Web site.. you should be able to find it on there somewhere.
Wiz: Agreed. Too stupid to be real…
DM: You write: “Sure, making up dirty little stories about sex, adultery, abortion, and drugs can be fun for some, but where are the theories about other aspects of the story?”.
Have you ever thought that is EXACTLY what Metzger did? Making up dirty little stories about abduction, bomb in pocket, note enducing trances, 3 men and a woman, overpowering a kidnapper and then asking for privacy after the entire world was praying for her??? Talk about dirty little secrets…….
Point blank: Her story stinks. There are many reasons for theories and people wondering why because she is NOT TALKING. Why on earth do you think the FBI got involved??? Because they DON’T BELIEVE HER…….and they are intelligent enough to know the depth of the damage she has done far beyond just to herself….
Perhaps if the Embassy considered any possibility that she could be rightfully or wrongfully arrested in Kyrgyzstan, they wanted to remove her. As far as I can see on the State Dept website, there is no prisoner transfer treaty with Kyrgyzstan http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/emergencies/emergencies_1200.html
Prisoner transfer treaties (or one would presume, the lack thereof) does apply to military personnel.
Deb G. You are entitled to not believe her story. But the abortion “discussion” is getting a little old so I’m just trying to drum up some conversation regarding other aspects of the story. You’ve said several times that Jill Metzger is not a person to you, rather a situation, yet you speak very little on anything other than Jill Metzger as a person. Funny how you slam me when I try to encourage “theorizing” about the Embassy’s intentions or the differing accounts, but you praise Julie when she theorizes about drug use. It really seems like you would prefer to think the worst about Metzger and anything that is said that doesn’t support that agenda is either not worth talking about or is worth, as I’ve said before, a good tongue-lashing. Why is that my suggestion of Jill telling the truth is so offensive to you, but I cannot be offended by your assertion that she is lying?
I find it interesting that so many people are questioning Metzger but none questioning the sources of the information.
here is no doubt the initially relayed information was imperfect and inconclusive. Unfortunately 33-days later there are no subsequent sources of information and official confirmation or verification on the accuracy, completeness, and truthfulness of any of the information initially reported is lacking. Questioning the reliability of the sources of information is being done by official investigation into the matter.
Initial reports are no longer necessary for some facs as she was given a comprehensive medical examination or more and also underwent several debriefings where she had to explain all that she could remember of how she was abducted and how she came to be found where she was found. It has been 33-days and no official press release has confirmed or denied any beatings, bruises, cuts, abrasions, or any other trauma. It has been 33-days and no explanation of how she disappeared and subsequently reappeared 3-days later.
I don’t see anyone jumping at my invitation to theorize about the Embassy’s reasons to pull her out of Kyrgyzstan so quickly.
1. Lack of secure medical facility having the resource capability to do the required medical examinations and treatments, 2. Lack of debriefing capability, 3. To prevent the exploitation in propaganda programs designed to influence our national interest and military strategy, 4. Her explanation not making any sense, 5. Too much distraction keeping her at the Embassy or at Manas, 6. Lack of security and need to micro manage the crisis 7. Prevent possible criminal inquiry and subsequent punishment in the Kyrgyzstan court system because jurisdiction of the abduction happened was not DoD.
Johca, I appreciate your response.
(Just to clarify, when I said that “no one” was questioning the sources, I meant no one on this board).
DM: Whoa whoa and whoa. A bit sensitive, and I in no way am tongue lashing anyone for comments about Metzger and WELCOME them. Please re-read my comments to you. I more than welcomed and was looking forward to any embassy talk, however, you infer that folks here are writing amateur trash novels. So, don’t expect to give theories and then bash others comments in that form without someone writing back in regards as to why we hold onto our theories – no matter how old it gets. YOU are the one tongue lashing. I am truly hoping some other info. comes along for different theories and I wish we had MORE of them. Nothing I say about the Metzger situation is on a personal level. You have to agree that her character goes hand in hand with actions. Look, I am trying to figure out what might have happened and until something better comes along and better pieces, I am holding onto my abortion theory. The whole bomb in pocket, trance, note thing is just old to me….Again, I enjoy differing accounts of what could be going on and that is the only reason I keep coming back here – to see if something NEW comes up. Just because I hold onto my abortion theory does not mean I am posting against you. I am merely stating, given the facts, I will maintain my own little theory because I don’t feel there is anything better to go on right now. You can comment about anything you want. Stop taking this so personal. If you read comments here, you will see that I like other theories and CRAVE THEM. I did not even remark about THE EMBASSY comment…..
DM: For the record, I question every source. There is so much information that can be twisted and I know that. I am aware that the media can twist info., that the Kryg gov. can twist info., that the Kryg people (including the family which found Metzger) can twist info., that the military can twist info., the civilians, and METZGER CAN TWIST INFO. TOO….However, given the small amount of actual “quotes” and info. directly from family interviews, etc…I have put together enough pieces to form the abortion theory. I have also seen a few emails, with my own eyes, which Metzger sent to someone outwardly humiliating an enlisted woman (calling her trash) and then sending this woman pictures of herself (Metzger) with the woman’s fiancee. Now, I have THAT FACT for sure, have seen the email and the pictures. So, this is the reason I stick to the abortion theory. I don’t know for sure if the 4th of July story was true, if the squirting Marines was true, or some other things, but what I know for a FACT is, indeed, true, is how I have come to my conclusion. However, I welcome any other theories to convince me otherwise…..
Mr. Johca:
1. Lack of secure medical facility having the resource capability to do the required medical examinations and treatments,
When a Victim or Perpetrator of a crime, and it could be that this person is one and the same, Local authorities have ‘absolute’ jurisdiction. Neither the Military, or the State Department can superimpose their authority. Unless of course this person has diplomatic immunity. All else considered, Kyrgyzstan officials could have/should have been allowed to hold her for their investigation.
2. Lack of debriefing capability,
That is not the responsibility of the Kyrgyzstan government/authorities.
3. To prevent the exploitation in propaganda programs designed to influence our national interest and military strategy,
Again, Americans on foreign soil, unless protected with diplomatic immunity, have no recourse.
4. Her explanation not making any sense,
All the more reason to hold her for an investigation, since she could be the ‘perp’.
5. Too much distraction keeping her at the Embassy or at Manas,
Not a concern of the Kyrgyzstan government/authorities.
6. Lack of security and need to micro manage the crisis
Not a concern of the Kyrgyzstan government/authorities.
7. Prevent possible criminal inquiry and subsequent punishment in the Kyrgyzstan court system because jurisdiction of the abduction happened was not DoD.
BINGO!!!! The winner of an all expenses paid trip to Bishkek, the Republic of Kyrgyzstan, Central Asia is the astute and honorable Mr. Jocha…
This prize is non-transferable and must be claimed at the Kyrgyz Tours R Us office in the centre of Bishkek within 24 hours.
Ah Wiz 🙂
I’m making a list and checking it twice
just to check out who’s been naughty and who’s been nice…
“America national sport is called baseballs. It very similar to our sport, shurik, where we take dogs, shoot them in a field and then have a party.
Sacha Baron Cohen
As character Borat, Da Ali G Show”
Deb G. I just find it telling that of everything I wrote in that post, you pulled only ONE line out to respond (“Sure, making up dirty little stories about sex, adultery, abortion, and drugs can be fun for some, but where are the theories about other aspects of the story?”) and didn’t offer your thoughts on anything else. The purpose of the post was to get people talking about something new, and you’ve skipped out on that invitation. It further supports my belief that there are some here, including you, who prefer to focus on “the dirty little stories” as opposed to having intelligent conversation on the less scintilating, but still mysterious, points.
DM: In response to you baiting me ;-)…I am kidding, of course…I would like to respond to the thought of the Embassy and/or military removing her from the country. I would submit that a civilian person visiting Krygyz with an identical chronicle as Jill would not have had equivalent protection and expeditious removal from the country. I posit that such civilian would be detained in the country and questioned by authorities rather than removed. Was it the military that protected her and moved her? Can’t you imagine the conversations between different offices and levels about what to do “with her?”
What about this shaved head? Obviously someone made quite an error in their report to her dad. People think we spread rumors.
ya know DM, nothing I commented about had anything to do in regards to YOU as a person or commenter here. Instead of saying “Have you”, I should have said “Has anyone”, which is what was meant. I was not putting down anything you said, merely pointing out that it goes both ways, people in here speculate and focus on NEGATIVE theories because obviously Metzger has done something NEGATIVE and is not willing to share the truth because obviously the truth is negative. If you want to believe she is not lying, fine. If I and about 98% of the world want to believe she is lying, fine. I don’t have anything new to talk about because THERE IS NOTHING NEW – Metzger is not talking neither is the AF – that about says it: nothing NEW…..now, if her story did indeed happen: She would have been greeted like a HERO, with fans, like the rest of the military folks who have really been abducted/kidnapped, etc…I was listening to your Embassy post, but comments were made back and I listened to those as well. I have had people bash me in here and then have given them credit for their comments. I don’t hold grudges and I know the real reason I as well as others are in here is to simply keep being curious and obsessed with WHAT REALLY HAPPENED….You keep bashing with you continued remarks about commenters such as “including you, who prefer to focus on “the dirty little stories” as opposed to having intelligent conversation on the less scintilating, but still mysterious, points”. All of what Metzger says is mysterious. There are no dirty little stories, only the ones Metzger has made up. Theories and speculation go hand in hand when a human being, even an animal, even an object causes world attention and sympathy and then could be LYING…..your perceptions of comments always remain NEGATIVE and dark, because deep down inside, that is how you view this situation. I detach emotionally from Metzger and just look at facts. The facts in my 3 ring binder say: She is lying and the only sensible thing to me right now is well, abortion theory. Now, why do you think the Embassy might have whisked her away? Want to know my answer???? You might not like it though: because I think she was bleeding excessively from an abortion gone wrong, possibly perforated uterus and needed to get her to a more adapt medical facility to treat such an emergency situation. Along with peforation comes infection ad high fevers and if bad enough – death. Good enough reason for the embassy to take her out. She was ALERT enough to ask for the embassy (again hearsay, but I do believe it because that is who was contacted) knowing the assistance she would get to get her out of there, leaving the area would get her away from there. I ignored your embassy writing because I know you don’t like my abortion theory, but you kept poking, so there it is…..
“your perceptions of comments always remain NEGATIVE and dark, because deep down inside, that is how you view this situation.” – You’re right – I view all of this slanderous talk of abortion and drugs and adultery very negatively.
“There are no dirty little stories, only the ones Metzger has made up.” IF she made her story up. Does the whole situation make sense to me? No. Are we getting the whole picture? Certainly not. But I’m not ready to condemn her without more details. It’s been implied that anyone who believes Metzger must be lacking intelligence or a strong sense of reality, so criticize me if you must, but that’s where I stand.
By the way, thank you for responding to the Embassy question.
We have commented on this blog before about the possibility that the military and/or Jill’s family may have had a pretty good idea what she was doing when she “disappeared”. Recall how relaxed her parents seemed during that video made while she was missing. If she had clued in any friends on the shopping trip (“I have to go do an important errand, don’t ask me what it is, I’ll be back at the base later”), I’m sure they spilled their guts when she didn’t show up at the base before the 10PM curfew. No one would have risked his/her career to protect a friend in a situation like that, and they must have been genuinely worried about her. If she had consulted a TCN (local Kyrgyz working at the base) about where to get an abortion, that person may have told someone what was going on when all the drama started. She may have told a family member (husband? sister?)by phone or e-mail what she was planning to do. The AF certainly figured out who she called from her cellphone at the store, and who she called from the payphone in Bishkek within a day of her disappearance. I doubt it was difficult to figure out her plan. This information may well have been relayed to the American Embassy during her disappearance so they were put “on alert” for her reappearance.
When she called the Embassy from the police station (again, an ODD thing for a military member to do, why didn’t she call the base???), they may have already known this was a brewing disaster of a situation and advised her to keep her mouth shut. They whisked her out of country before the Kyrgyz justice system got wind of her reappearance. If the Kyrgyzstan justice system had had time, they probably WOULD have detained her. But the Bishkek police station probably didn’t feel like they had the authority to lock her away when the military police came to pick her up.
I think the Embassy WOULD do the same for any American citizen over there, if the opportunity arose. Usually, though, the person committing a crime hasn’t come to the Embassy’s attention beforehand and it takes a while for the gears to turn. During that time, the Kyrgyz justice system has time to flex its muscle and hold the suspected criminal. In Jill’s case, the wheels could have been pre-greased at the Embassy and they knew they had to get her the hell out of there fast.
Can’t someone cut and past the AF Times article onto here? I am so curious about her father’s statements. She RAN 35 miles through the countryside? WHY???? Is he telling me she didn’t pass a single house for 35 miles to ask for help? What, is it like the Australian outback over there? She ran 35 miles after being severely beaten??? (Perhaps he wants us to think she went out to get in a little marathon training session, since she’d just spent 3 days tied to a chair, since she’s so tough and all.)
I am just so surprised to realize that Jill has persisted in at least features of her original story. It makes me think that something bad probably DID happen to herat some point in her adventure, though the bomb in pocket/trance part of the story has got to be bogus.
I second VR’s request – if someone could copy/paste or type the article in its entirety, I’m sure we would all appreciate the effort!
I see Jethrenes song & comments actually got you to stop posting from your USG computer yesterday afternoon.
To bad your back to your old habits today.
You said “who cares what time I post or how often?”
How about every officer in the DoD
You, Deb-G, are hypocrit with zero integrity and no professionalism.
You smugly point out Metzgers unprofessionalism but cannot realize your own.
I pity you.
Jethro: Jumping flipping backflips. I dislike calling people names, but you are well, an idiot. I get out of work early, thus, am USUALLY not around after a certain time. Left even a bit earlier as have a friend in the hospital. USG computer??????? You sure about that??? Wow, you sure do speculate with no idea of what is going on. Good one. Jeth, you pity ponderer, you have no idea what a hypocrit means. I see your hatred via cyberspace, that, little one, is pitiful…..you are CLUELESS….and make NO SENSE….like a song would get anyone to walk away, perhaps YOU maybe, being the idiot you are,,,,,LMAO – I’m dancing to your speculations…you make me smile because you make a good fool….
Deb-G
As a U.S. Army officer, which you have claimed to be,
are you actually trying to defend the fact that you comment on this blog site during normal duty hours?
What about the other military service members that have repeatedly infomed you of your FRAUDULENT SLACKER ways?
I guess they are all as clueless and stupid as I.
Go ahead defend your use of USG comupters on the www.
Let the whole world know what officers like you do all day.
You probaly don’t even realize that your comments drag the reputation of real officers and soldiers through the mud.
The times of your comments are evidence enough.
You are guilty dear, its time to stop the charade and apologize.
Jeth sweetie: you are really “stupid” I think this is the first time I nearly fell off my chair laughing at your speculations and comments. You don’t even realize the depth of your post to the realm of ignorance you just portrayed. I theorize about a situation, have a high respect for military officers, enlisted, civilians, heck, everyone around me. I do NOT have respect for officers who take an oath, lie and deceive the world……now go find the funny farm you came from… why do you care so much about what I do??? there are some serious crimes going on in this world, terrorists galore, go find them and preach as to what they are doing wrong, but careful Jeth, because once you do, you’re dead wrong yourself, very dead.
Deb-G,
I care so much because I pay taxes i.e. your paycheck.
I don’t think an army officer should be using USG computers and government time OBTW you do realize that you are a soldier 24/7?
I guess not.
You are worse than Metzger. You are guilty of fraud waste and abuse of USG property. Your comments prove this.
Metzger is still innocent until proven guilty.
Chew on that one for a while.
Deb-G,
Since you are an officer did’t you take an oath?
As part of that are you allowed to commit FRAUD WASTE AND ABUSE (FWA)?
I thought officers were not allowed to tolerate FWA.
Life must be tough for you, as you obviously cannot tolerate yourself.
Deb-G,
Oh I forgot…only other officers cannot commit FWA……….
your exempt!
WAAAHHHHHH
jethro and Deb G….please stop bashing each other…what is the latest info on Major Jill?
What the Dell, I certainly can not dispute the perspective of your reply, but in defense to how I constructed my comment it was in response to Embassy’s reasons for moving Major Metzger out of country and not Kyrgyzstan government’s or local law enforcement reasons. However, I can disagree slightly with “Americans on foreign soil, unless protected with diplomatic immunity, have no recourse.” This may or may not be true for military personnel assigned in country depending upon the situation and circumstances. Unfortunately I do not know specifics of any Status of Forces or other agreements in place between U.S. and Kyrgyzstan government pertinent to military forces assigned duties at Manus.
Typically however an agreement is made on how to deal with members of the United States military who break the law and do criminal wrong doings in country. Even so, this is part of the significant dilemma of this case as situation was being dealt with as Major Metzger being a victim of a crime rather than perhaps the probability she was a person trying to cover up something. The probable deception unfortunately involved claim of kidnapping in a location that it significantly embarrasses two governments and is such that it can be considered an act of fraud against the government, if the abduction and escape is discovered to be a deception to conceal something she decided to do to resolve a personal need and even more so if it included treatment for a medical condition caused by misconduct.
The problem with Major Metzger’s disappearance and reappearances is she was deployed to an imminent danger pay location and this restricted her movements off of installation and duration of her absences from her duties. Presuming her disappearance was for her personal needs, she could have done what she needed successfully at any other not deployed to support combat operations location and at worse might have to take a minor disciplinary (not punitive) action for an unexplained unauthorized absence. It is the complexity of what results from the probable deception that has my interest and the what happens to Major Metzger is only about a quarter of my fascination with this incident.