Note: This post is now closed to new comments. The Metzger discussion will continue in our new Wizbang Forum, where there is a thread devoted to Metzger. Registration is required to post on our new vBulliten powered forums. We’re fairly certain that the new forum system will be more practical for this type of extended discussion…
In the coming weeks we’ll updated to look of the forums to more closely match the new Wizbang design.
ijosha:
“way too tabloid”??? Well, we ain’t proud. We’re in some kind of sub-tabloid realm here on this blog, with teenaged boys writing in about snappers and all. Tabloid is fine as long as it gets people wondering and writing to:
editor@thesmokinggun.com to ask them to investigate and let enquiring minds know what the heck is really going on. Greta von Sustenance and the NYTimes will follow where the smoking gun leads.
VR —
😉 but that’s my point: it would seem to me unlikely that GvS, the NYT, the Smoking Gun, or whomever would look someplace like here or militarycorruption.com for anything to wonder about… they would likely be digging somewhere more legit.
Chess Game: Middle-End Game
Controlled release of information to stop rumors has just started.
ijosha:
I agree that the NYT, Smoking Gun, and Greta von Susphrine are going to be digging somewhere more legit than here or other blogs. Let’s HOPE so. The trick is to get them interested in doing it. I think blog traffic DOES make a difference. I think it DOES matter when you can google “Jill Metzger” and come up with a lot of active discussions going on. I think news sources DO peruse the blogs to see “what’s going on”, and get ideas for what to look into. Jill Metzger’s Dad was asked, after all, what he thought about “internet rumors”. It’s part of our information gathering system today.
VR — O.K.
Another difference from the original account – originally it was three men “After a few hours, the woman appeared with TWO men and stuffed Metzger into a Volkswagen van.”
It does seem odd that “the woman appeared intermittently, writing notes instructing her where to go next”. And that Metzger didn’t run. And that she was seen buying hair dye herself. However, if it is true that the woman repeatedly visited her, then that could indicate that she was being watched, was told she was being watched, and was threatened not to run or seek help. IF she thought there was a bomb in her bag, then that could have caused enough fear to follow their instructions. Also, along this line, she could have been instructed to buy the hair dye.
One thing that is confusing – the latest story says the object was placed in her BACKPACK. But in the picture from the surveillance video it looks like she’s carrying a large PURSE – it doesn’t look like a backpack at all. Either newsday’s source used the wrong word, or this picture is not of Metzger.
http://delo.ktnet.kg/2006/30/images/0202.jpg
FJ: Great posting. Actually, lots of great postings recently.
Dorothy: Lots of great comments because the folks in here don’t like reading bashing comments like yours, and I also see you contribute to nothing in here. Once people like you stop bashing others, the real reason we are here is allowed to be discussed and people start commenting. When you start to bash, they stop.
DM: I agree, that was certainly a large bag, not backpack. Would nicely fit a change of clothes and items needed for a 3 day getaway…
Kuba: Keep up that energy!
Or she took a large bag because she was shopping and wanted something big enough to hold everything she planned to buy.
Deb-g,
I agree with your assessment of the good comments. My favorite is the SOF comment.
Jethro, not Jethrene
DM, DM, DM:
Do you honestly believe it’s possible that someone slipped a bomb in Jill’s pants/bag/backpack and handed her a note, telling her where to go? And then she went there? And she was told to buy hair dye, so she did? And then a woman handed her more notes? And she went THERE? And she got out of a van to get water? And she did all of this because she was told she was being watched? Are you KIDDING me?
She didn’t:
1. Tell friends in mall something was wrong.
2. Call for help from cellphone
3. Throw bag down sewer, run away
4. Ask quietly for help from any passerby
5. Write a note asking for help, hand it to store owner. Even in English, someone would recognize “help” and “police”. After 4 months, she ought to have known a word or two in Russian.
And let’s assume we’re devious kidnappers. Is it likely we’d plant a bomb in a removable object on our victim, then follow her around the city as we give her notes on where to go? What, we’re going to tell her “don’t seek help or we’ll detonate the bomb”? Then what? How would that benefit any plan we had? and why on God’s green earth would we make our blonde victim buy black hair dye, which would stand out in a storekeeper’s memory? or send our victim out for water? Not issue a ransom and then allow her to escape? It’s crazy, crazy, not even vaguely plausible.
I did say that I find it odd, but I don’t know how stupid or naive Metzger might be.
The new details make me skeptical. Particularly because Metzger says that she left with the woman, but the surveillance cameras show her leaving alone.
But, if it’s so obvious that she’s lying, it should be easy to wrap this up – either find her criminal or crazy. Then why has the investigation extended beyond the Air Force? Why is the FBI involved?
This bashing of ideas is really getting old… you only attack me because I’m a strong, independent woman… you are just jealous. Silly really… pathetic really.
DM: I think the FBI is involved because right about now, it looks like the Air Force is covering for “something”.
Ah, that post at 8:54 p.m. was NOT me. Funny though – imitation is the greatest form of flattery. I guess whoever that was does, indeed, think I am a strong, independent woman – very nice – thank you. Seems I need to ignore you folks who insist on the Deb G. comments because it truly is OLD and boring at this point.
Jeth, Jeth, Jeth: Funny you post under my name, how juvenile. Yes, better start ignoring, you folks are boring – really.
VR: I agree. No way Metzger would follow those requests. She left that Tsum ALONE, well, Santa was waiting outside. FBI is involved because the whole story is CRAZY. Someone or some folks know exactly what happened and the FBI is going to figure it out…..unless, of course, they fall under a trance and are given instructions and follow a woman and some men and then come back with dyed brown hair! oh boy.
W: Is that you? Alrighty then.
DM: I recall comments weeks ago (from myself as well) that folks theorized that eventually someone would come forward to say she purchased hair dye somewhere. This story has to break at some point. She was somewhere doing something. Unless, of course, aliens took her.
/*
Then why has the investigation extended beyond the Air Force? Why is the FBI involved?
Posted by: DM at October 18, 2006 06:54 PM
*/
Oh, that’s easy to explain, Jill’s husband and father-in-law are OSI agents. That taints USAF investigation’s credibility.
But Jill’s husband and her father-in-law John Mayo did’t instruct her how to lie properly, from what I gather, I find that bit rather odd. They seem to know about Jill’s little dark adultery secrets and are not extending their help. Or what?
Kuba: You’re on it. Given hubby and daddy are OSI, would be easy to “cover-up” the truths. Thus, FBI getting involved. Given Metzger’s accusations of being kidnapped, thus, pointing fingers toward the Kryg people and government and area, that could create an international disaster. Seems like it already is. LOTS of reasons for the FBI to get involved. Can’t help but wonder if Metzger was “overly” stressed before heading home – knowing she had several states to go to for marriage celebrations, the marathon to run and the pressure of taking first given her comments following last years race (and the comparison to great athletes), then the honeymoon withe new hubby. Perhaps her brain had overload sensory going on and she just simply went AWOL. It happens (ie. runaway bride). I’m sticking with the abortion theory, but regardless I believe it was more simple than Russian intel agents roughing her up or being involved in any OSI or intel op. Who knows though, except Metzger and eventually, the FBI.
If Metzger purchased hair dye the day she left the Tsum, she pre-meditated whatever it was she was doing or going to do. Kidnapping is most likely non-existent in this case. Then again, maybe the FBI is investigating to see WHO kidnapped her (cough)
I think the hair dye is the key to this whole mystery. IF she bought it before the whole escapade went down, she was planning one of three things:
1. She was planning to run away in disguise (runaway bride)
2. She planned the whole kidnapping ruse for attention
3. She was planning to dye her hair prior to her abortion (or other deed) so she’d be less recognizable. IF this is the case, then she had a helper in the Kant area BECAUSE she would have had to have a place to dye her hair. She wouldn’t have expected to dye it in a cab or at the clinic.
Are there any other possibilities?
I think it’s odd. It sort of puts a hole in the theory that she went to get an abortion, figuring she’d be back at the mall in a few hours. She wouldn’t have bought hair dye if it was her expectation that she could run out and do her dirty deed and get back to the mall before anyone noticed. She MIGHT have planned to dye her hair before an abortion, with the idea that she could tell her friends she got a hair dye job at the mall, but that seems weird and unlikely to me.
Of course, we don’t know the validity of the information that she bought hair dye from a vendor.
Exactly, don’t know how true the info. is of her buying the dye from a vendor. I can’t help but be lead to speculate she went AWOL or had an abortion and dyed her hair after to literally fake a kidnapping. Again, does not explain being gone for 3 days unless something went “wrong” during an abortion. However, don’t know if there even was an abortion either. Dying her hair to be less noticeable is an option, but for what reason?
VR: You have a great theory about the attention. Faking an abduction would certainly bring international attention. I just can’t believe though that someone of her nature, running that marathon, just being married, family waiting to have multiple celebrations and then going on an a honeymoon to an exotic locale would make her want “attention”….as strange as all this is though, could happen. Anyone think it could just be overload on stress? but dying your hair??? ah heck, sticking to abortion theory as that July 4th night sealed the deal for me…..
Deb G
Yeah, it might make sense that she panicked and thought up the kidnapping story and dyed her hair AFTER her abortion (or whatever) went bad and her plans soured.
But IF it’s true she bought it BEFORE this all went down, on her way out of the mall… that changes everything.
VR: BEFORE means she is in BIG trouble. Pre-meditated is going to be her demise in this case. If several of the earlier statements about her going from vendor to vendor, etc…and then buying the dye under trance or instructions is true, she is done. Saying that because there is NO way an AF Officer would go from vendor to vendor under instructions and buy hair dye. Ok, her out could be well, they said there was a bomb in my bag so I followed instructions in order to save dozens of people from being killed, including herself. Doubtful, but possible. Given her type A personality – NO WAY. If she kicked the man bringing her food, she would have certainly not allowed herself to get into a situation to be taken out of a busy shopping area. Military personnel are trained NOT to do this. Ah, kids are trained NOT to do this, civilian policing folks are trained NOT to do this. I have seen so many civilian personal protection programs which tell you “DO NOT go with someone holding a gun at you or threatening you – i.e. in a parking lot”. Reason being is, most likely they WILL kill you once you leave with them, however, you have a chance to run and scream and it baffles them to run away from you…..no military person is going to be TALKED out of a busy shopping area….
If she had an an abortion, her career would be done, if she faked a kidnapping, she is a HERO….simple stuff.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=161314
I know most have seen this, but just in case. I like the comments, especially the one of humanoids taking her into a spacecraft – now there is a great theory…..probably true though, I have watched those sci-fi movies and those aliens have the ability to make you FORGET what they did to you or maybe they programmed her to state she had been kidnapped, the bomb, the note, etc…they just have to work on their alien abduction program a bit to make it more believable. Minor glitches.
Deb G. – I’m not going to presume that you care what I think but I wanted to tell you that it is refreshing to see you brush off so succinctly the recent insults that have been directed at you. I realize that I have been guilty of long, dragged out, off topic dialogues with you, and also that it’s much easier to read this board without all of that.
Deb G. – I’m not going to presume that you care what I think (wink) but I wanted to tell you that it is refreshing to see you brush off so succinctly the recent insults that have been directed at you. I realize that I have been guilty of long, dragged out, off topic dialogues with you, and also that it’s much easier to read this board without all of that.
DM: Thanks. Getting juvenile. Past your previous comments, I always liked your postings (I actually don’t even recall what you posted against me – either I have a memory problem or it really doesn’t affect my life – (wink). Decided to “ignore” and not throw fuel on the fires, especially to ignorance. Those comments mean nothing to me. Kind of like O’Reilly reading negative comments posted to him and he laughs about it all – picture that.
DEB-G,
Since your SNAPPER doesn’t measure up, We have concluded that your two recent female hot-tub guests must have been fellow carpet-munchers.
Not wanting to be judgmental, we must ask if are you a lesbian?
Have you ever considered this alternative lifestyle?
Three thirty-someting ladies in a hot-tub turns us on.
You have unjustly criticized the SF based off your failed marriage.
Hey Deb,
I just can across some new information… did you know its a fact that the Rorqual whales have a penis that can be up to 10 feet long, with a diameter of up to one foot?
We understand the Female Rorqual whales are notoriously cheery. Now we know why.
We’re wondering about your horses… None of us grew up on the farm, but don’t they have big dicks too? We’ve seen the five legged donkeys over in Shitcanistan, and they totally unnevered our ODA – scary dreams and PTSD.
We’re wondering, are you a lesbian?
Have a good one,
SOF
SOF, please go away.
hi there, I have been off this sight for 7 days, here in western NY we had a surprise4 snow storm that left us without power, heat, and phone service for 7 plus days. Kind of sucked the big one after awhile. I wonder what is new on the Jill story? I see by the last post the attacks are still up on DebG. I guess I better go back and read the posts. John
SOF: You’re a piece of work. Juvenile and really ignorant. I really don’t want to answer you, but here goes, how fun. No, I am not a lesbian, sorry. I know you wish I was though. As for the hot tub, I have several friends who enjoy my hot tub, male and female, sorry no swinging, no lesbian encounters, no sexual orgies – boring huh???. Horses? I have two RACEHORSES my little friend – they are in NY with trainers/groomers/guards, etc…the sexual stuff is pretty sick though and shows your MENTALITY or lack thereof. As far as SF, I have judged NO ONE. My friend who is in the hospital broken from a failed parachute on a jump is SF – sorry, I don’t hold anything against them and have several SF friends. Wrong again ignorant one. I will keep this short because you disgust me. SOF, I have to warn you, YOU ARE MAKING THE SF LOOK PRETTY BAD WITH YOU COMMENTS and ACCUSATIONS. Think about when using your tennage mentality and manners…..I feel bad for you. Now, if you are at Bragg, I’d like to meet you face to face, in your Command, preferably USASOC to discuss YOUR problem with how you feel others are against SF…..or are you not allowed at USASOC yet??
SOF: You’re a sick PERVERT. Are you a pedophile too??? Maybe a background check on your psychological status is warranted….a whale penis, who would think of that – except a sick mind….are you sick SOF?? I HOPE you are not on a government computer writing about sexual pornography, especially with animals – big trouble there SOF. (shaking my head at SF puppy, if, in fact, you are SF) ok, let’s have some fun – keep sending comments like you are, and I will keep collecting them! to be reviewed laterrrrrrr 🙂 and one last comment: I take it you think I am a lesbian because I don’t cower or shiver from little guys like you??? Sorry SOF, you DON’T turn me on – at all.
SOF: Lastly. Unjustly criticized SF? LMAO. Ok, back to some slight personal stuff. Again, Uncle was a Merrills Marauder, family in SF. If you know anything about Merrills Marauders, which I speculate you don’t, they started what is now known as the SF community, then the 475th Rangers which is now the 75th Rangers. So, don’t even try the criticizing thing – not working, but funny to watch your ignoramous.
You have unjustly criticized WOMEN in general as lesbians simply becuase they are not interested in idiots like you. I have to admit, I would rather be a lesbian than be around a boy like you 🙂 fun eh? oh, as for my ex (whom I was not married to long enough to care), he chased enlisted babies AFTER our seperation because he could not possibly pursue and catch the REAL WOMEN. Now, not saying anything against “enlisted babies”, I am talking about 18 – 20 year old girls while he was 40. Trying to comb his ego and yes, other parts! I guess I should not mention all the crying, cards and letters to have me stay with him??? funny how you think you know so much about someone sitting behind a computer……ya know, I don’t think you are SF and who is WE, you got a mouse in your pocket???
DM: Oops! Brush off? Sorry, not yet. However, I am smiling whiling commenting and find it funny how bad SOF is making the SF community look – and he doesn’t even see it. Poor little guy.
SOF: Nearly forgot the failed marriage speculation. It’s called an “Ended marriage”. Our marriage was Great! No arguments, fun fun and more fun. Got a phone call from 2 women who did not know he was married. So, this LTC admits he is addicted to women and the “hunting” part. Same thing he did to his FIRST wife SOF, imagine that? Then, he admits to it all. Found it rather boring and no fun so left to have fun fun fun on my own. Now, life is BETTER without this failed man in my life, and oh yes, I have more $$$ now that he is gone – he was high maintenance!!!:-) So, SOF, perhaps you should ask him some questions or are you going to stand by a LTC who is openly dating enlisted babies????? I did not say a word because it did not matter and I was better off. Now, where does YOUR integrity stand???? and let’s see how well you represent the SF community now…..or are you going to be like Metzger and friends and COVER for wrongdoings??????????
Since things have slowed down again (and the “Deb G versus Bashers” show is getting soooo old) I thought I’d throw in this little bit of news regarding Manas airbase:
http://enews.ferghana.ru/article.php?id=1656
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2006/10/20/031.html
To summarize: the rent will amount to around $70 mil instead of the $150 mil discussed in the past (still up quite a ways from the $2 mil payed this year). This will probably get a few people there riled up…
Thanks for the new info, ijosha.
iijosha: Thanks for the info. Wonder why the Kryg government threatened to evict the air base?? (agreed, Deb G. vs. bashers is soooooo old, but there is a lot of energy in here on a Friday so kept typing away)…..
DM: I’ll work on the “brush off”… 🙂
Deb G. – SOF is WAY out of line. Surely he could find a board that is more interested in bestiality than this board.
DM: Yea, you’re right, and I am way out of line for responding to the little boy. He did not deserve a response. I have gone back and forth with some in here, some of it funny, some of it old now, but this is just sick stuff. Where is my ignore button??
I am a fellow personnel officer that worked alongside Jill at Ramstein. She is a superior officer and very dedicated to the mission. She loves the Air Force. She has my full support. She is a good person that cares about people. She was always trying to be the best personnel officer that she could be and she did an outstanding job.
Supporter of Jill:
What do you think happened to Jill in Kyrgyzstan?
I hope everyone has/is having a great weekend. Just to set the mood, “Rap-Master Toker” (Toktorbay Tonusov) be droppin u dah rymz:
http://www.kyrgyzmusic.com/audio/Track04Anthology_edit.mp3
“I will not regret for the things that are past,
I will not regret for the things that are gone,
I am satisfied with my happy life.
We have become independent people,
Equaling America (USA)!
Look, brothers! Everyone knows about us now!
The Kyrgyz flag is fluttering at the United Nations.”
… and here’s just something else musically interesting from the general region:
http://altaj.cz/(clintlu5n2ha0h3v33rr10an)/files/=370/AltaiKai-Attar.mp3
I am a fellow personnel officer that worked alongside Jill at Ramstein. She is a superior officer and very dedicated to the mission. She loves the Air Force. She has my full support. She is a good person that cares about people. She was always trying to be the best personnel officer that she could be and she did an outstanding job.
Posted by: Supporter of Jill
Last time I checked the possession of a commission has expectations such as:
Be of high moral character and personal qualifications.
Be compliant with standards of conduct, including the Uniform Code of Military Justice. These standards of conduct apply to a member of the Armed Forces at all times that the member has a military status, whether the member is on base or off base, and whether the member is on duty or off duty.
Consequently please provide examples of:
Her superior commitment to her actual being there military Duties, Honor in regards to doing or not engaging in certain types of acts and deeds, and nobility–the desire to do the right thing by striving to do what is best and most noble.
How about an example of work ethic that is not off duty related to athletic competition or doing what’s best for Jill’s career.
Certainly her truthfulness and honesty is currently in significant question–can you give examples of her truthfulness and honesty?
How about an assessment of her sexual continence as in did she have sex to get those superior (OPR) evaluations and awards and decorations recommendations, or did she actually do the deeds describes in an extraordinary way?
Considering your claim she is the best of the best of the USAF personnel officers where can I go to find one of female gender to have sex with? Can I take her on deployment with me?
Deb – G,
From your own comments:
“So, this LTC admits he is addicted to women and the “hunting” part. Same thing he did to his FIRST wife SOF”
So you have a little Jill Metzger in you and stole your ex-LTC from his first wife?
Why did you think your “no arguements fun, fun and more fun” marriage would work when he was divorced?
Kinda hard getting that anullment isn’t it?
“chased enlisted babies AFTER our seperation because he could not possibly pursue and catch the REAL WOMEN” – Debg
Then I guess you are not a real woman?
I agree with with SOF you must be a lesbian, but to each their own.
You have made a lot of disparaging comments about the SF community “they have a dark side” “I’ve seen a lot of cover ups @ USASOC”
Your one SF jump injury friend and uncle won’t make up for your hatred for green beanies due to YOUR POOR JUDGEMENT and failed marriage.
Sub-par snapper, I would think so!
SOF supporter: That was funny. Stole someone’s husband – not my character sorry. He was divorced for 8 years before meeting me. Nice try though. Hate green beanies?? Where did you possibly get that from??? Nice speculation, ah, wrong again. I don’t hate anyone – unlike you. Sorry you are in such misery. You need to re-read comments because your perception is WAY OFF. Nice of you though to try and bash me, but stand by an obvious bad egg LTC, and yes, SOF supporter, there are bad eggs. Doesn’t mean ALL bad eggs, just bad ones. Funny, it seems YOU have labelled all SF bad eggs and lumped all green beanies together due to ONE LTC actions. I did not do it – YOU DID. How ironic…. 🙂 Yup, I have seen coverups, and they do have a dark side, even they will admit that, comes with the territory SOF – wake up, however, YOU put words into my mouth stating you must THINK I mean all SF, however, it is YOU stating that not I, meaning YOU are the one who feels all SF is bad – again, how ironically twisted….good one. Lesbian? snappers? how juvenile are you???? Those type of comments don’t bother me, however, it does show your character. I’m working tonight SOF supporter, but what are you doing on a Friday night at 8:37 p.m. commenting here? Get a life…..
SOF: If I was a lesbian, I would tell you. I have no problems with lesbians or gay men either. They are people SOF supporter, people. Do you have a problem with your own sexuality? I KNOW you do or you would not bring this up. Must be hard for you. I guess you are trying to say lesbians and gay men are something other than good people? Nice of you to judge people like that. You’re a joke. Go buy some clues, I hear they sell them cheap at Boys-R-Us.
SOF/SOF Supporter: Here is what I find most funny though and actually smirk/smile when you comment. This LTC you talk of would put a knife in your back in less than a second. He spoke poorly of nearly all SF guys, especially the new ones (Q course and so on). He had few friends. Most likely did not like fellow SF (which is unusual) due to his own insecurities (same reasons for chasing babies once he got older). So, keep supporting him and I’ll keep laughing at you….the two people he REALLY liked (I don’t count!) and admired were my Uncle and father because they made him look good…..so you see boys, there are some bad eggs…..sorry for the newsflash.
/*
To summarize: the rent will amount to around $70 mil instead of the $150 mil discussed in the past (still up quite a ways from the $2 mil payed this year). This will probably get a few people there riled up…
Posted by: iijosha at October 20, 2006 11:00 AM
*/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UZBEKISTAN CONFIRMS GAS PRICE HIKE FOR KYRGYZSTAN
11 October
Kyrgyz national gas company Kyrgyzgaz has received official confirmation from Uzbek oil and gas company Uzbekneftegaz that Uzbekistan intends to raise the price of the natural gas it sells Kyrgyzstan from $55 to $100 per 1,000 cubic meters starting January 1, akipress.org reported on October 11.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me put in here what I read in between lines.
Uzbeks are not pleased at all with US presence in Kyrgyzstan. Hence, higher natural gas bill for Kyrgyzstan.
US is not paying for airbase rent in cash. Payment is coming in the form of hugely overpriced refurbished second hand Soviet helicopters. It is corruption schema, in my understanding, of both Kyrgyz authorities and US authorities. Some guys are making handsome profits behind taxpayers’ backs.
Well, corruption was always there in US and Kyrgyz relations.