Note: This post is now closed to new comments. The Metzger discussion will continue in our new Wizbang Forum, where there is a thread devoted to Metzger. Registration is required to post on our new vBulliten powered forums. We’re fairly certain that the new forum system will be more practical for this type of extended discussion…
In the coming weeks we’ll updated to look of the forums to more closely match the new Wizbang design.
Deb G: This isn’t an attack… just an observation.
I don’t think you are targeted because you are female. I don’t think anyone is jealous of you either but by always using that as your defense coupled with some form of “LOL…. Hahahahaha, ROFLMAO, etc” kind of paints a bullseye on you.
Personally, I’ve enjoyed reading your posts which discuss JM but I feel the DCA posts are the same tactic for each attack… “break right, chaff chaff, flare flare”. Its now become a predictable response that probably entertains your provokers.
If you really want the folks to back off then don’t answer absurd attacks… or rather change tactics.
Just an observation.
From Deb G. on Oct 3 to Sickening “show me ONE post of mine which states that someone else is WRONG – yup, didn’t think so, there are NONE LOL……”
From Deb G. later on Oct 3 to Jethro “fun again, your above theories on me are WRONG WRONG WRONG”
Here is a link stating she is going before a grand jury today cause she failed a lie detector
http://mms.tveyes.com/Transcript.asp?StationID=1335&DateTime=10%2F03%2F06+05%3A27%3A55&Term=Air+Force&PlayClip=TRUE
Reading an article that when Jill went missing, Josh did not want to go over there and help them find his wife. I can’t help but wonder if he knew something. Article states they had a talk about “family matters” before she went shopping. I would think a husband would jump to go look for his wife especially being OSI.
Still trying to find out if they went on their honeymoon. Anyone know???
The AFOSI was not allowed to conduct a thorough investigation or debrief Jill (nor were local Kyrgyz officials) because they were preempted by the State Department.
Author: Buster
Most interesting as the Department of the Air Force cannot abandon or avoid its responsibility of defining and sustaining basic roles and rules of conduct without the potential collapse of discipline among the uniformed members of its ranks.
The State Department may have control of investigating the event and all its situations and circumstances, but the Department of the Air Force has jurisdiction of determining responsibility and accountability for deeds done by its military members. The purpose of military law (which is codified by Congress) is to promote justice, to assist in maintaining good order and discipline in the armed forces, to promote efficiency and effectiveness in the military establishment, and thereby to strengthen the national security of the United States. While Senior and Top Air Force leaders may at this time be frustrated to act, the time to perform their duties pertinent to military law will eventually arrive and I’m sure members of the OSI will get to do a few interviews and review any and all of the investigation done by the State Department. Her lawyer’s certainly will when the judicial process begins to determine distinctions between intentional and unintentional behavior, degrees of culpability, and assignments of punishment.
Eventually the Department of the Air Force will need to decide if Major Metzger should be held responsible for any of her behaviors and actions and this can not merely be asserted, it must be reasonably shown why the should and shouldn’t decisions were made.
Perhaps OSI and Senior Air Force leadership are frustrated by the State Department having lead investigative control in the matter of Major Metzger’s disappearance and reappearance but the Air Force will have access to what is needed to unravel this specific mystery when it comes time to assign blame or praise for behavior and actions and determine the appropriate consequences.
Read an article today which has military stating Josh specifically did not want to go to help search for his wife. Being OSI in the military, you would think he would want to. He stated he was on the phone with Jill before going shopping and they talked about “family matters” – can’t help but think Josh knew his wife was not abducted…..patiently waiting for someone to say something…
Yippee! I get to be the first of the next 1,400!
Some marginally related news from http://enews.ferghana.ru/
Ombudsman suggests a transfer of the US AF Base from Bishkek to Osh
04.10.2006 10:34 msk
Kyrgyz Ombudsman Tursunbai Bakir uulu suggests a transfer of the Gansi AF Base from the Bishkek airport Manas to Osh.
Bakir uulu maintains that the international coalition established the AF base in Kyrgyzstan to fight terrorism in Afghanistan, and Osh is much closer to this country than Bishkek. The ombudsman also believes that it should be done because AF base servicemen enjoy diplomatic immunity and get off the hook whenever something untoward happens. Substantiating the suggestion, Bakir uulu referred to the recent collision of a civilian board and an aircraft in Manas.
The ombudsman claims that he is bombarded with complaints from the Kyrgyz employed on the base – women battered by officers of the US Army and men fired despite the demands of the Labor Code of Kyrgyzstan. Numerous complaints are made by the locals who are affected by spillage of aviation fuel from US aircraft.
Bakir uulu appealed to Marat Sultanov, Chairman of the Jogorku Kenesh [national parliament], to revise the Gansi AF Base treaty with the international counter-terrorism coalition.
Buster,
I apologize for stomping on your username…that was not my intent, but I needed a login, and that sprang to mind. I was late to the fight, but just couldn’t stand the idiocy any more….
Was posted in
http://op-for.com/2006/09/pray_for_maj_metzger.html blog.
I’ve been stationed and Manas Air Base and have been to the Tsum Market countless times. The Kyrgyz people are a decent people and conditions are safe. We have a huge American ExPat community there. Ok, here’s what happened. Our good Major had a fling behind her husband’s back while assigned to Manas and got knocked up. She wanted to have an abortion before she returned home. She sought the help of a Manas Air Base Third Country National (TCN) employee thinking she could undergo a same day outpatient abortion. It didn’t happen as planned. She experienced complications. The doctor wouldn’t release her. She panicked and faked her abduction once she realized she wouldn’t make Col Reese’s stupidly imposed 22:00 hour curfew. That’s what happened. Period. She’s embarrased her nation and in the process, she has strained relations with the American Embassy in Bishkek and the Kyrgyz Ministry of Interior. Next time I go to Kyrgyzstan I’ll be scorned by the local population and the Ministry officials and businessmen with whom I must interact. Thanks Jill Metzger. If the Air Force has any sense of integrity and honor, they’ll throw the UCMJ book at her – Adultery, Conduct unbecoming, Unauthorized Absence. Her career is over. What a dumbass. No wonder the Air Force made her a Personnel Officer. She might be a champion marathoner, but she can’t run away from this idiotic episode.
Lt Col “In the Know” O · October 4, 2006 07:47 PM
DM: Saying Jethro was WRONG WRONG WRONG was meant that he/she was WRONG about ME ME ME. I meant I have NEVER posted that someone’s theory about Jill Metzger has ever been WRONG. I respect what others have to say, whether it be for or against her and I have never said anyone’s theories or opinions have ever been wrong. Saying to Jeth about being wrong about me was totally different. He was wrong, about me, and I am not the one here to be proven right or wrong. So, yes, I do get attacked for rather absurd writings – the same writings others do. I can say someone is wrong about me becauase I know me, however, I have no right, no business and no solid facts to say anyone is wrong about Jill Metzger’s situation.
IKJ: I put LOL, ROFL, et al because I do truly think it is FUNNY and SILLY that some attack me the way they do. I really do. I take no offense to anything here, just typing away some wasted minutes and finger power replying to some. I appreciate your observation, however, don’t really need one. I don’t care why others attack me or anyone, just find it baffling and curious. Not a big deal really. Pointless to do it.
Buster2: LOL Was wondering who you were – thanks for the cover. You can come into our foxhole anytime!
Kuba: Again, I commend your passion on this situation and finding that piece of info! I have to wonder if anyone who had something to do with her disappearance will eventually talk about it.
Kuba/ JHater,
Nice find: You know, sometimes the most obvious theory REALLY IS the correct one.
It looks as if the UCMJ process has begun.
Clarification: I’m not intending to say that the posts above are the smoking gun we’ve been looking for. My bad for striking the gavel of conclusion.
Let the conspiracy theories continue!
Question to those with an Air Force Background – even if Josh had wanted to go to Kyrgyzstan to search for Jill, would the Air Force have allowed this?
It’s been suggested that Josh knew something the rest of us didn’t during Jill’s disappearance. Personally I don’t think that Josh knew anything more about his wife than we did at the time. In his interview with the Early Show he said —
“We’re going to stay here,” he said. “I believe that my place is here with my family. … I believe in our government to get things done to solve this case. I think there’s about 20 highly skilled, highly trained, experienced agents over there right now rattling cages and looking for her. I believe that my efforts here would be better served honoring Jill’s memory.” I was particularly struck by that last line when I first saw the interview because it sounds like he thinks she is dead. In such a stressful situation, while she was missing it may have been easier to think she was dead than to think about all the horrible possibilities if she were alive, but I think this line shows that he did NOT know anything.
DM: I agree. That last line leads one to believe he thought she was dead. You would have to think too that if Josh KNEW she might have done something, he probably would have talked in order to avoid the hefty search for her….
still sticking with the abortion theory….
DM-
The AF would NOT allow Josh to go to K-stan if he wanted to (for several reasons).
I agree w/ you. At the time, I don’t believe he knew anything.
Well… I see people have found their way to the new conference room.. I’m glad you could all make it.
Put your coffee cups down.. time for a poll.. ahhh.. forget it! Let’s just get right down to business.
So… in order of importance:
a…what do you THINK about the Grand Jury deal-ee-o?
b…and what’s this I hear about a failed lie detector test?
and…. finally
c…what are the implications of what Ombudsman Tursunbai Bakir uulu had to say? (I’ve met this guy, btw, sat down to a face-2-face with him) [for Kuba: his office is on the 2nd floor of the bldg right across from the Militia station on Moskowskaya]
Wizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Glad to see you back! Always smile reading your posts….
🙂
Wiz:
a. either the wizbang posters’ letter writing campaign worked (no, not really) or the AF was doing a thorogh and fair investigation and the time has now come such a “deal-ee-o”. (yes, that’s it)
b. standard ops for AFOSI… maybe Josh did it.
c. I think its just normal PR opportunity for local gov’t. US presence in Bishkek (in my opinion) has done a lot more good than harm (at least economically). I believe that US- K-Stan relations have grown and remained stable enough that these few “hiccups” will not have a lasting affect… but sillier things have happened.
I FEEL… like having a beer.
WizBanger – Wanted to tell you that I’m not avoiding responding to your recent long post to me, just taking some time to THINK about it.
Deb——–
You loooook great today!!! Gotta say, gurl, if I were 50 years younger… you’d be taking me to kindergarden.. HA!!!
Crap… where’s the spell checker? Sorry about that.
BTW: for the 30,000 instances it was used on the previous comment board… the word is “MOOT”… not “MUTE”.
ahhh forget it… its a mute point anyway…. no, moot.
Wiz: LOL A. I am not as young as you think B. I picture you an older retired Vietnam Vet – could be wrong on that as I don’t know you or have all your info. C. Your wife would be really upset with me and I’m not into that! However, I love your posts and your character and personality – a welcome and refreshing visual….
and don’t you ever leave my foxhole!!!
ikj: that was funny. You ok today? little things seem to be bothering you so I am passing you that beer you wanted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a bit curious about the “my bad” you used…hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ah, forget it
Deb:
actually, I’m bit behing the LD Max curve… aka power curve. Broke my arm last night and am floating on cloud percocet. Thanks for the beer offer but my wife already put a big stop to that.
I put in the “My bad” because in my post prior to that, it read as if I had concluded the truth of the stories based on Kuba and JHater’s posts. (Although that is indeed what I think happened).
ikj: OUCH! Well then two beers for you – nothing wrong with cyber beer! Unless you can emotionally think yourself to slobberish drunkeness from it!
I think that is what happened too. Logical enough…
I know I have asked this before, but does anyone know if Jill went on her honeymoon? I don’t think she did…Af might not have allowed that given the investigation they are doing.
I think my anonymous lurker friend said that she was not on leave (ie no honeymoon mon)… I’m not certain that is exactly what I heard though.
Anonymous lurker friend? are you there?
OK… gotta go for tonight. I just told my wife that I’ve got a “rocket in my pocket” and I’m HOPING she’ll enter into a trance.
awww who am I fooling… I’ll be alseep before my head hits the pillow.
IKJ: 🙂 maybe she will follow you into the bedroom, BE CAREFUL, those pocket induced trances will eventually lead to you getting your ars kicked before she escapes!!
ain’t that the truth! c’ya later
DM……..
Don’t worry about the response.. I’m not here to tell you ‘what’ to think. You, and you alone, have to determine that.
But, don’t be afraid to hold your ground. This is not a life and death situation here. We, or at least I, gather here to discuss this event. So far I haven’t had to back off anything that I have laid out. Lucky? Maybe… but my luck started when I looked at what happened, what was reported, and what I knew… and started the thinking process.
Some people on another forum came right out and told me that I was full of crap.. that was almost a month ago. I’ll be paying a ‘visit’ there again. Not so much to say ‘I told you so’, but to see where they are in their thinking now.
Wiz: I agree with you. Many of us were bashed hard for our thoughts on Metzger’s situation and the fact we were posting anything negative at all in regards to not believing her story. I too wonder what they think now. I’m not one to say “I told you so”, but it sounds like that might be exactly what I will say and so will many others…..will be interesting. Would really just like to see the truth come out and reprimand made. We would never allow other military to get away with something like this. Many people, integrity and ethnicity were put on the line because of this reported kidnapping….punishment is deserved here so it does NOT happen again.
I’m just patiently waiting for “the truth”…
Considering the enlarging debate on who knew what and who knew when of Florida Rep. Mark Foley, it would be most interesting what collateral inquiries into Major Metzger’s immediate chain-of-command and most specifically those who were her Rater’s on her OPR’s would reveal. Especially if it is revealed the pattern of misbehavior existed at previous assignments and was not addressed appropriately by the chain-of-command.
The most favored scenario for cause of disappearance and 4-day reappearance is pregnancy and need to permanently conceal it by having an abortion. While a mother cannot be prosecuted under the UCMJ for deciding to have an abortion and having an abortion; there is in the UCMJ, Article 134-Self injury without intent to avoid service. Article 134 requires that the offense was committed (in time of
war) (in a hostile fire pay zone). This offense is characterized by intentional self-injury under such circumstances as prejudice good order and discipline or discredit the armed forces. It is not required that the accused be unable to perform duties, or that the accused actually be absent from his or her place of duty as a result of the injury.
This article opens up a very large catch-22 for the Department of Defense and it will be most interesting to see if the Air Force considers prosecuting Major Metzger under this article or avoids doing so as if it is the plaque. This article and what is done about it in this situation will definitely determine if Air Force leadership has integrity and moral courage.
Certain offenses in a time-of-war carry greater maximum punishments to include death and AWOL is one such offence carrying a maximum punishment of death. A state of war need not be declared by Congress, nor is a formal declaration required. A war situation can result from the fact our armed forces are engaged in actual combat against an organized armed enemy. We are in Afghanistan and Iraq conducting the Global Was on Terrorism and actual combat against an organized enemy is happening.
It is clear Major Metzger was deployed to a forward location in Kyrgyzstan supporting combat operations in Afghanistan and that the location was within the combat command Area of Responsibility (AOR) and that she was being paid imminent danger pay for providing direct support to the Afghanistan combat zone and eligible for combat zone tax relief. I would say in my opinion Article 134-Self Injury without intent to avoid service is an appropriate article and that time-of-war needs to be fully explored by the court in determining the appropriate punishments.
Appropriate UCMJ articles appear to be:
Article 86 Unauthorized Absence
Article 92 Failure to Obey Order or Regulation
Article 107 False Official Statements
Article 133 Conduct Unbecoming of an Officer and a Gentleman
Article 134 Adultery
Article 134 False Swearing
Article 134 Fraternization
Article 134 Self Injury without intent to avoid service
Article 134 Testify: Wrongful Refusal
Johca: Excellent info! Well done. Now, let’s see if they use it. The words integrity and courage stuck out clearly – WHO will have the integrity and courage to insist on the punishment….stay tuned.
WizBanger Poster — any more thoughts/info on the base relocation? Interesting that you’ve met the ombudsman. Is he one of the ones calling for the capital to also be relocated to Osh?
ijosha———
Anyone who has experienced military ‘residents’ in their town or city knows that one ends up with a two-headed monster at the door.
First, it’s nice to have a complex that is going to provide additional jobs for people and a revenue cow for local businesses. But, secondly, military are military..and their money has to be spent somewhere. That normally ends up at the local bars… not the local libraries. I suppose, it would be the best of both worlds if that were the case. Historically, it has proven to be a detriment for a community.
So, despite the good idea of moving it to Osh which is in the southern part of the Republic, it’s not going to happen! They like the money where it’s at. Furthermore, the US military would be very much opposed to it. LOTs of money has been, and is being, invested into Ganci.. Who knows, one day that will be the Military Retirement capital of the world. PX/BX, Hospital, Commisary, High School, the works… The Ramstein AFB of Central Asia!!!
As to moving the Capital from Bishkek to Osh.. That was not his idea, and it really doesn’t matter whose idea it was.. it’s not going to grow wings and fly. The primary reason being that it would put them just that much closer to the radicals. I’m not sure if you have read my posts about the place… but, the people of Bishkek are nice people. Also, the political bent in Osh doesn’t necessarily fit in with the popular agenda in the North. WON’T HAPPEN!
Well, I am SHOCKED at the information above about Jill failing a polygraph, if in fact it’s true. Not shocked that she failed, but SHOCKED that she apparently has CONTINUED to think she can get away with lying. Surely she must realize that there are way too many people involved now– witnesses, police, investigators, husband– that she can’t continue to lie her way out of trouble. A panicky lie in a panicky situation I can imagine; but persistence in that lie? I can’t imagine. I would have thought she’d have ‘fessed up to everything by the time she got to Germany. I mean, if the pregnancy situation was true, that would have been apparent to everyone involved. Does that mean she said, “Well yeah, I’m pregnant, but that doesn’t have anything to do with my kidnapping?” or did she say “Well yeah, I did go ahead and get an abortion, but THEN I got kidnapped?”
It will be very interesting.
How much will the public be able to access a grand jury hearing?
VR:
Apparently, she’s still lying to at least her husband as well. She was for sure, when we saw the news article about their phone conversation.
He askd her if she was hurt and she replied that I was told not to talk about that.
I think you guys really did a lot to keep this in the public eye. The major media concerns are still not covering it.
Johca: Absolutely agree with your statement above with regard to the investigation, legal proceedings, and discovery process by her defense counsel. I thought it was a tad odd when it was first relayed to me but I’ll assume it was/is due to the potential for political fallout. I’m sure more hardened facts will begin to filter out in the not too distant future.
I would also like to apologize for my barbs, posted much earlier, with regard to SERE. I’d been through the AF course years ago and am actually looking at having to attend an additional course in Brunswick. Not something I’m looking forward to at this point in my career.
Buster2: No worries and welcome to the discussion. It’s an old nickname from when I was a little kid and had a little Dutch-boy hair-don’t.
Gh———
So, you really think this little outpost in cyberspace, manned by a contingent of outcast renegades was capable of such a feat????
Wonders never cease!!!
As a long time lurker, who’s a goldbricker and uses work time and assets to follow this blog and proud of it.
My response would be YES!!!!
Hey the only place to get any news real, supposed or just plain made up was here.
Gh…
In that case, I suggest you change you moniker to GoldBricker.. That would be more befitting a member of this organization.
Welcome to the unit… pull up a chair, have a beer or coffee, grab your favorite cigar out of that box in the corner… and read the your packet.
Your assignment, should you choose to accept it….
GoldBricker….
I failed to mention that I admire your character.. Despite the ridicule and harrassment you have opened yourself up to, you were honest. Thanks!!
Now, let’s get back to work… ahhmmm.. back to what we were doing.
Talking to an AF friend who said there are some folks at Manas who know what happened to Jill. He did not have any info., however, has heard this. Of course, it could all be rumor, however, one would have to think that if someone knows at Manas exactly what happened and the truth perhaps eventually it will come out….
OOOOHhhhh.. NOW I GET IT!!!
Deb G.. now I know…
dhall.. this person is a Marine!!!!
You know from dhall of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli..
So, if I follow this correctly.. there’s got to be a code in here some where……..
Wiz: I love you man!
Excuse me for being off topic, but I wonder if the following initials who are regulars to this site are really the following people??
GH: Goldie Hawn is that you???
VR: Valerie Roberts is that you???
Julie: Oh wow, Julie Andrews. Wait, thought she was dead.
Buster: Buster Brown, nice to see you again.
I remember a Ron in here too, must be Ron Howard!!!!! I think he was a Captain in the Army at Bragg but is a Major now….
Don:
You know Metzger really should have sold the movie and book rights to this. I wonder who would play her. Jennie Garth maybe?
This sounds like a Sunday CBS movie doesn’t it?
Strange feeling that info. on Metzger is coming soon….very curious….this should be a book, I agree….