Ann Althouse has the scoop about the University of Wisconsin – Madison teaching 9/11 denial as an Introduction to Islam class.
Here are some comments about the class from Kevin Barrett, founder of the Muslim Jewish Christian Alliance for 9/11 truth, who will be teaching it:
“The physics of those collapses clearly could not have resulted from plane crashes and jet fuel fires with office materials.” Barrett says jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel, and says recent tests on melted steel from the building prove his theory that it was wired to collapse, by the Government.
Barrett says the Bush Administration is fooling the American public with the Adolf Hitler ‘Big Lie Technique’… ”Tell them a little lie and they’ll wonder about it – weapons of mass destruction in iraq was a relatively little lie – and people are getting called on it.” Barrett says. ”Tell em a big lie like 9/11 and they have a huge resistance to questioning it.”
Ann links to Jessica McBride’s blog (the radio show host who, I think, broke the story) with all the detail including the class syllabus.
There are a lot of 9/11 conspiracy theorists on the left, but to give their nutty views legitimacy by allowing Barrett to espouse them in a universtiy classroom setting beyond disgusting. The university is providing Barrett cover by claiming he has academic freedom, which is another sham since, as Ann points out, the university gave him that freedom by making him an academic in the first place.
(Jay Tea adds: the persistent commenter known as “.” has repeatedly posted copyrighted materials in their entirety in the comments, despite a warning not to do so. For that reason, I have taken the extremely rare (for me) step of deleting the offending comments and banning his IP from posting any further. Disagreeing with us is not only allowed, but welcomed; opening us up for legal liability on copyright-infringement matters will not be tolerated.
In other words: BLOOD FOR ODIN!)
Big Mo, that was almost clever and funny.(but as usual very typical) wanna try again?
To the anonymous dot –
The path of the Pentagon plane, including near-ground behavior is well understood, as it left physical evidence of its passing.
Look here:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html
The severed light poles, the parts, the black boxes, the missing passengers … you conspiracy lovers must really be desperate! These were observed events caught on video!
It also explains why the UFO types have been so quiet. The more digital cameras, the more camera phones, the more portable video movie cameras, the harder it is to fake or misinterpret stuff and call it a UFO. Or, here, a silly conspiracy or three!
The first thing I did was ask the simple question-
How on Earth are people who are responsible for such gross negligence and malfeasance of duty not summarily dismissed from their positions of public trust?
If the sole defense for the events of 911 were “hey, we’re incompetent” the only option left to anyone with a shred of honor would have been to resign in abject shame.
But that didn’t happen.
In fact, just the opposite occured. Every single screw up, every failure, every excuse maker involved in leaving America completely vulnerable to not 1, not 2, not 3, but FOUR separate attacks over a period of more than two hours was either promoted or awarded with even greater powers.
Then there was the matter of the destruction of the crime scene, the shipping of the wreckage of the WTC complex to India and China, the border left unchecked to an openly admitted 10 million illegal entrants in the following five years despite the fact that we were fighting “a war on terror”, the Iraq war linked to the 911 attack based on falsehoods, the fact that OBL went from public enemy # 1 to George Bush saying 6 months later that we didn’t know where he was, that he didn’t care and that he wasn’t a priority.
That was pretty much the start of my skepticism, more followed after that. Need I go on or do you catch my drift?
As far as the jets not being shot down – first, consider the protocol for dealing with hijackers on 9/10. Give them what they want, and they’ll leave the passengers alone – right? Why would we shoot down a hijacked jet?
?
Posted by: JLawson at July 5, 2006 03:36 PM
oh, i dont know, maybe because Flight 77 hit the Pentagon after is was PAINFULLY OBVIOUS that hijacked jets were flying into buildings? time frame moron. check it.
JLawson going for the most simplistic explanation possible. i know its easier that way when the corporate media(which you clearly trust way too much,and dont understand) beats it into your head.
Whatever, “.”
I don’t watch Fox news. Don’t watch any TV news, in fact.
Wanna try again?
Posted by: Big Mo at July 5, 2006 03:27 PM
——————————————————————————–
and yet your so sure that all TV news is liberal?(there you go falling for the phony left/right paradigm again.your too easy) who told you that? National Review? is that where you get your news sheep-boy?
popol vuh – well, obviously, over 61 million people disagreed with you in November 2004.
Wow Big Mo – what a bunch! I’m getting dumber reading their comments.
They don’t know steel can be weakened by fire.
They didn’t know AQ has US educated people in its ranks.
I’m still waiting for the 1994 attack explanation – what does the first attempt by the same organization have to do with the second during a different administration.
And nobody has answered my tinfoil question. It must be disrupting the signal.
“As far as the jets not being shot down – first, consider the protocol for dealing with hijackers on 9/10. Give them what they want, and they’ll leave the passengers alone – right? Why would we shoot down a hijacked jet?”
A. We have a long-standing policy of not negotiating with terrorists.
B. It was believed that possible targets for the hijacked jets included the White House and Capitol Hill.
C. See “A” above.
Kathy – Still waiting to hear how you know engineers were involved in planning the 9/11 attacks — ?
See, still ignoring the question, Lee?
Tinfoil to block the signal – or enhance?
And does tinfoil melt when struck be several tons of ignited hydrazine?
“.” OK, punk, one more comment to you then I’m done. I don’t watch TV news ANYMORE. I learned how liberal the media is through E-X-P-E-R-I-E-N-C-E in the field as a journalist, working with other journalists, and going through the J-school with people so liberal that they’d make Dan Rather look positively conservative.
That clear it up for you?
If not, then I can’t help you and don’t care to try anymore.
Lee You need to work on reading comprehension,
I explained the newtonian physics in my first post and in fact explained defining the point of impact as well.
lets see how many times i can use the term “tinfoil”. you know, since im not that smart and dont have much of an argument. this kind of talk makes me nervous, so i just spew “tinfoil” as much as i can.im very typical you know.
Kathy – yeah, it is incredible. You can argue, fight, debate, reason, use facts (ones that come from this planet, not Mars), experts and witnesses, and you can never, ever pry a loony toons from a cherished fantasy.
Also, the failed attack in 1994, they sought the aid of engineer – or it was a well-calculated guess.
But with all the other planning involved, why dont you believe AQ has engineers? Do you think engineers are only in this country, like steel beams sort of ‘come that way’ because Lord knows, you can’t shape them with heat. Sigh.
Dot and Lee –
Yeah, like they’re gonna make a snap decision and tell all NORAD pilots (of whom there were very few remaining in the first place, since we were at peace and all with the USSR – probably all part of the conspiracy, you know?) to shoot down hijacked planes. Somehow, I don’t think such a policy decision could be debated and implemented in less than a couple of hours. Sure, we had war plans in case of nuclear attack that could be implemented in moments – but hijackers slamming into buildings wasn’t something that was expected pre 9/11.
BTW, Dot, you’re losing it fast with the profanity. Perhaps it serves to convince your peers of how right you are, but it usually has the opposite effect with adults.
I am a lifelong, right wing, combat vet who voted for Bush
When one starts a post with his bonafides you can rest assured this would mean, “I am a lifelong moonbat, who served in the rear with the gear in the Army, and voted for Kerry dammit”.
I cannot believe the Flat Earth Society still exists.
Kathy2 – since you have no comprehension of classical physics, just let the adults talk, ok? Since not one person has bothered to discuss the fact that the initial premise “steel won’t melt” has been debunked, I’d say that intelligence isn’t a safe subject for you. But thanks for the ad hominem. It’s an inadequate dodge, however.
And I am genuinely curious about why you folks wear the tinfoil…. reception inhibitor or enhancer?
Big Mo,
Who knew they could be so sensitive about their hats?
Kathy:
Your debunking of the steel softening issue can be easily illustrated by anyone who’s been to a blacksmith’s shop – either real or a recreation somewhere, or at a RenFair or the like. They heat the steel in order to soften it for bending and forging. It doesn’t have to melt in order to lose a lot of it’s tensile strength, it simply needs to be heated to a point slightly above cherry red. When it’s cold, it’s strong. When it’s hot, depending on how hot it is it can have the strength of taffy.
J.
when heated
Still waiting Kathy – people are starting to notice that you’re avoiding the question.
How do you know engineers were involved in the attack, Kathy? or did you make that part up?
If so, what else did you make up?
ya know, if you look real hard at the footage of the first plane hitting, you can see Lee Harvey Oswald waving out the window.
Jim & Kathy,
Okay let’s say for the sake of argument that the Official Conspiracy Theory about how the towers collapsed is correct (laughable, but let’s just keep your tinfoil on your heads for a second): hydrocarbon fires weakened the steel, which led to a pancaking effect (one floor collapsing into the next into the next, and so on). There were no fires below about the 70th floor, so would it be safe to say that no steel was weakened below that point before the collapse? Surely you’d agree that no steel was weakened on the first 30 or floors. If one floor fell into another and so on, how long would it take for the roof to hit the ground. Answer: The towers fell in about 10 seconds, which is near freefall speed. How could the towers fall that fast? A bowling ball dropped off the roof through air would take 9.6 seconds to hit the ground, yet concrete and steel traveling through concrete and steel took a fraction of a second longer to hit the ground? With your backgrounds, you should easily be able to explain how this occurred.
Thanks for your help.
Face it, if you need to concoct an elaborate series of improbable events to explain why your “theory” is correct, against what the majority believes for sound scientific reasons, then you are in denial.
In the rose-colored world of conspiracy theorists, minority thinking means you are a chosen elite instead of a misguided fool.
Convenient.
Cheney gave the order authorizing shooting down the planes. You’d have to ask him what his thought process was – if any.
Lee,
You continue your dishonest propaganda. Kathy explained to you the basic of Newtonian physics and you tried to divert attention by accusing her of lying. Standard tactic of yours.
I am still waiting for the answer from you: you have been caught in a lie and smear. What else you have been making up in your propaganda effort? Why are you willing to go to such an extent to deny the 9/11 attacks? Why such a propaganda effort on behalf of the terrorists?
Sean:
How could the towers fall that fast
If you consider the weight involved, the floors pancaked almost instantly. It makes perfect sense.
Kathy still hasn’t explained how she knows engineers were involved in the planning of the 9/11 attacks.
tick…tick…tick…tick
And once you realize that she made that part up – it’s apparent that she’s willing to lie to support her thesis.
Thunk!
That sound? Kathy’s BS arguments hitting the bottom of the wastebasket….
Just for Lee, from the AP
Posted on 06/07/2002 4:22:54 AM PDT by Dallas
WASHINGTON —
The man suspected of masterminding the Sept. 11 terror attacks was well-traveled: Born in Kuwait, he went to college in North Carolina, fought Soviets in Afghanistan, plotted attacks against Americans from the Philippines.
He also repeatedly visited the German city where chief hijacker Mohammed Atta lived, U.S. officials said Thursday.
Officials suspect Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, a top lieutenant of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden, met with Atta or members of his cell in Hamburg, Germany, but they have not received direct evidence of any contacts between them, one U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
Since Sept. 11, evidence has mounted that Mohammed was chief among the bin Laden lieutenants organizing the attacks, counterterrorism officials said. Abu Zubaydah — another of the alleged organizers and now in U.S. custody — has identified Mohammed as the organizer, and investigators have learned he transferred money used in the attacks.
Investigators also have uncovered more of his history. They believe Mohammed attended Chowan College in northeastern North Carolina before transferring to another American university, where he obtained an engineering degree, a second U.S. official said Thursday, declining to provide further details.
Who’s lying, Lee?
I’m beginning to get my tinfoil question answered empirically- the tinfoil cuts out the signal, quiets the little voices…. do you sleep in it?
LAI – nice to see you old friend – hope you are well.
KAthy,
Good to see your posts here. Looks like you have a good team also at Hangright.
Ok, ignoring the “is there a 911 conspiracy” argument, I’ll just ask this about Prof. Barnett. Is anyone required to take his Religious Studies COURSE 370 – ISLAM: RELIGION AND CULTURE? And are the people who take his course required to believe everything he says? Have any of the people who think he should be fired gone to college? If you did, were you able to think for yourself? Could you choose your courses?
Kim says:
The university is providing Barrett cover by claiming he has academic freedom, which is another sham since, as Ann points out, the university gave him that freedom by making him an academic in the first place.
So academic freedom is a sham because universities grant degrees and employ professors? Umm, ok.
Funny I never see anyone around here upset that William Dembski and Michael Behe are “allowed” to espouse their nutty creationist views in the classroom.
Heralder,
If you consider the weight involved, the floors pancaked almost instantly. It makes perfect sense.
Thanks, that explains it.
Anyone want to try answer the question as to how the towers collapsed at freefall speed? Kathy? Jim?
Was the AP lying, Lee?
When you roll over, does the tinfoil poke you in the ear?
Do you shower in it, too? Nevermind, I know you don’t shower.
Kathy, the first WTC attack happened in 1993, not 94. This is another topic that I dare not bring up now.
Sean,
They collapsed at a rate consistent with the force of gravity. 9.8 feet/second/second.
Don’t they teach science in schools anymore?
Sean –
I’ve not seen any official estimate of fall time or any engineer-backed reasoning of it being at any unexpected rate. I know that glass slows a bullet, but the effect is rarely enough to measure unless one has the glass instrumented in a lab setting.
You’re at a bowling alley. There is a long line of balls up in the return queue. You reach in between two balls when another slams into the front of the queue a few feet away. Why do you feel the impact immediately, instead of the time the stopped ball would have required to traverse the rack? How far did the bottom floors have to travel to reach the bottom?
I have not studied the specific data point you seem to find perplexing, even if it is accurate. Speaking only as an engineer with those disclaimers, i would not expect the fall to be much retarded. In fact, I would expect the brake effect to be minimal in terms of duration. Why would you expect it to be a significantly different time, in analysis terms, not opinion?
OK – Steve, thanks, here’s what wikipedia had to say:
The World Trade Center bombing was the February 26, 1993 attack in the garage of the New York City World Trade Center. A car bomb was detonated by Islamist terrorists in the underground parking garage below Tower One. It killed six, injured over 1,000, and presaged the September 11, 2001 attacks on the same buildings.
The goal of the attack was to devastate the foundation of the north tower in such a way in that it would collapse onto its twin.
—-\
The year doesn’t invalidate the point. They tried once before, and how does that relate to their second attempt, or was that staged too.
Of course it also explains why they consulted an engineer, instead of say, GUESSING as to what strengths of mat’ls would be vulnerable.
Any of you Conspiracists out there can tell me where they mine those readymade steel beams, especially since they can’t be melted…..
This thread is an excellent example of how a nice fat BLOOD FOR ODIN button might be useful. Appreciate the effort you’ve had to put into editing out some of this tripe, Kim.
However, since we are diverging into wacko conspiracy theories (or facts, depending upon your orientation), let me propose that Lee is not one, but a series of posters using the same name (and perhaps computer). Or one person suffering from multiple personality disorder. Careful unpublished analysis of grammar, spelling, attitude, posting times, tone, coherence and use of logical and illogical argument styles supports this contention, but no need to post a link. It is possible that at least one of these Lees was in on the detonation of the WTC and due to overwhelming guilt, has seen fit to crusade pseudonymously to uncover this great lie.
I salute your bravery.
You know the black helicopters will be coming soon for us both.
Its been fun while it lasted. Bye all.
You conveniently left several important points out Kathy – no wonder you didn’t provide a link.
Hmmm, no record of him ever attending the NC college – isn’t that convenient.
So where did Khaled Al-Shaikh Mohammad obtain his engineering degree Kathy? Or did his two years at junior college give him all the engineering he needed? LOL!
It’s amazingly interesting how Lee demands answers to his questions, but does not feel the need to meet the same standard.
Lee, when you start responding to requests to support your POV with facts, maybe others will respond in kind. Until then, everyone should recognize you for the troll you are and ignore you.
Kathy,
Now you’re getting somewhere. Freefall speed occurs in the absense of any resistance (i.e., there is nothing in the way to prevent it from accelerating due to gravity and it’s own weight), yet I think there might have been a little bit of stuff in the way. Like maybe 200,000 tons of steel, 425,000 cubic yards of concrete, 103 elevators, 60,000 tons of cooling equipment, and just a little bit of office equipment.
It is physically impossible for 110 floors of steel and concrete to collapse straight down in 10 seconds. Impossible.
Nice try, PNAC, Cheney, Bush, et al.
Lee, you miss the point – and you found the link so I will assume ANYONE could. It’s a silly accusation that I’m hiding something from you in PLAIN SIGHT – but your 9.11 lying eyes have deceived you before…
Have you seen a counselor for your paranoid delusions?
Did you miss this part?
Chowan spokeswoman Melanie Edwards declined to provide further information about the student, including whether he transferred to another school in the state.
—–
Yes you did.
He had two years of engineering there buddy. What do you want a 4 yr degree? Is that what OBL asked YOU for? Didn’t make it, eh?
LOL – Talk about conspiracy theory wackos – that takes the cake.
Sorry to disappoint you Eppy – but America is up in arms over the republicans who will lie, cheat, and steal to further the “Hate Thy Brother” agenda of the ridiculous right. The other left-leaning posters you see here who are as outraged as I are not me – I only post under the name of Lee, and have never posted a single comment under another name on this site. Can you say the same Eppy?
Lee –
It takes little enough engineering to understand how and why the WTC buildings failed, which is why your and your fellows’ continued conspiracy theory claims make you seem really like tinfoil hatted looneys.
Wrong, Sean.
Again, Lee is caught red-handed in his dishonest propaganda on behalf of the terrorists. Of course, Lee and his comrades on the radical left are projecting their lies, cheat, steal, and hate on Bush and the Republicans.
I don’t see Lee that upset over the evil terrorists. He is quite willing to be “strong and assertive” against Reps and Bush. Yet he will go to the floor to propagandize for the terrorists, even to deny the 9/11 attacks. These are the same people who resolutely refuse to believe Saddam and AlQ link.
Two years of engineering? Are you an idiot? He had two years of prep work preparing for a transfer to a four-year college – and consequently had little or NO engineering.
AND THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT HE EVER WENT TO A 4 YEAR SCHOOL AND EVER WAS TRAINED IN ENGINEERING. (CAPITALIZED for the thinking-impaired right)
You know that Kathy – you’re college educated, and you know that he would have had NO engineering at a junior college – You are indeed someeone who would lie to further the agenda of hate. What scum.
your and your fellows’ continued conspiracy theory claims make you seem really like tinfoil hatted looney
Show where I posted my theory Jim. Or are you a liar too?
I merely asked Kathy a simple question, caught her lying, and am having a great time showing that she is willing to lie for what she believes in. What’s the harm in that?
i had a hard time believing the administrations version of 9/11 but then I had half my brain scooped out with an ice cream scoop and it all started to make sense.
Its simple. There are good people and there are bad people. The bad people want to kill the good people because they are jealous of all that the real god has given to his worshippers. The good people love freedom but they give it up to fight the bad people. Some people give up all their freedom, learn to rape and kill, and join Kilo company. Although they do terrible things, they are not bad because Jesus was a marine.
Its so much easier to wave the flag than to have to learn about the constitution.