One day the story of WMD in Iraq will be known, at least partially. For now, the information is coming out in bits and pieces. Bottom line — those who said there was no WMD in Iraq were wrong. (Using the definition and standard they set for President Bush, I guess that means they were lying, right?)
Jay at Stop the ACLU has a great roundup of blogosphere reaction to the latest from Pete Hoekstra and Rick Santorum:
U.S. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), Chairman of the Senate Republican Conference, joined Congressman Peter Hoekstra, (R-MI-2), Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, today to make a major announcement regarding the release of newly declassified information that proves the existence of chemical munitions in Iraq since 2003. The information was released by the Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, and contained an unclassified summary of analysis conducted by the National Ground Intelligence Center. In March, Senator Santorum began advocating for the release of these documents to the American public.
“The information released today proves that weapons of mass destruction are, in fact, in Iraq,” said Senator Santorum. “It is essential for the American people to understand that these weapons are in Iraq. I will continue to advocate for the complete declassification of this report so we can more fully understand the complete WMD picture inside Iraq.”
The following are the six key points contained in the unclassified overview:
• Since 2003 Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.
• Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq’s pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist.
• Pre-Gulf War Iraqi chemical weapons could be sold on the black market. Use of these weapons by terrorists or insurgent groups would have implications for Coalition forces in Iraq. The possibility of use outside Iraq cannot be ruled out.
• The most likely munitions remaining are sarin and mustard-filled projectiles.
• The purity of the agent inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives, and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal.
• It has been reported in open press that insurgents and Iraqi groups desire to acquire and use chemical weapons. I have not checked in at the major liberal blogs to get reaction. My guess is that the conventional wisdom is still that Bush lied about WMD and that there was none in Iraq. (I will update later if I find this not to be the case.) What I find absolutely amazing is that many of those who believe Bush had something to do with the Twin Towers collapsing and who believe that John Kerry really won in Ohio find it impossible to believe that Saddam had WMD — even though Bill Clinton, the UN, France and dozens of Democrat politicians said he did over and over again.
Over two years ago, I found Ken Timmerman’s report of WMD found in Iraq quite compelling, but no one ever seemed to pay much attention to it. (Be sure to read it if you aren’t already familiar with it .) Maybe eventually all the information found will be compiled and we will have a comprehensive picture of everything that has been found. Maybe the media will even decide to report it.
UPDATE: From A Real Ugly American (via Flopping Aces’ excellent, must read post):
General Tom Mcinerney is reporting on Fox Hannity and Colmes right now that that the administration has been keeping this low profile to avoid exposing 3 of the 5 members of the UN Security council; Russia, China, and France. McInerney says these weapons will be traced to these countries, and asserts it is well known that Russia helped Saddam move most of his WMD stockpiles out of Iraq before the war.
I have on several occasions speculated about why the President would not be touting the information we have about WMD found in Iraq and had come to a similar conclusion. My theory was that if the public knew that certain other countries had been involved with moving WMD, they would demand action that we did not want to, or were not able to, take.
Check out Pajamas Media’s WMD Files for previous blogging on the subject. Just for the record, I never doubted.
As you say facts are fact. It is a fact much of what the left/MSM has said since the beginning of this war help the terrorists, Iran, and North Korea, and the rest of America’s enemies.
P. Bunyan: here’s the problem with that, and everyone else who uses the “aid and comfort” argument to stifle criticism. The administration acts in our name, and it’s our duty to try to redirect its actions if we feel they are not in the best interests of the country. The main mechanism most of have to hold our government accountable is… various forms of speech.
If dissent is unpatriotic, then how do you propose we keep our leaders accountable? Elections roll around too rarely.
I’m sure that nobody in the present administration or its political supporters would stoop to misusing this argument just to silence its political opposition. But hey, some future, evil political coalition just might. So, we may as well not set the precedent.
But to address the question of whether speech helps the enemy: it doesn’t matter. Because the enemy can cherry-pick whatever it wants to bolster its cause, no matter what we say. What if we just all zipped our lips and had parades, chanting “We love whatever George W. Bush does!”
I don’t think Ossama would see this and go “Aw, shucks, I guess we’d better call it a day.”
If I were in charge, and I wanted to pursue a policy that I didn’t want questioned, it would sure be convenient if I could spin dissent as not only unpatriotic but tantamount to painting a target on the back of Jessica Lynch.
But as I said, I’m sure it’s not about that.
Hmmmm.
Yup.
Just because they’re not the WMDs that you want doesn’t matter. They’re WMDs and that’s pretty much good enough.
Don’t like it? Don’t care.
Hate to spoil the party, boys, BUT:
“Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions. “This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991,” the official said, adding the munitions “are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war.”
You can go back to sniffing Bush’s ass now.
And I’m still waiting to hear how the fact that we actively supplied or allowed supplies to reach Iraq with chemical weapons has been debunked.
Heralder – I welcome the debate. It is silly to assert that your liberties are intact. The Cheney adminstration is destroying your (and mine) liberties every single day. I fiqure that some of the big, strong right wingers are simply afraid. I mean whatever happened to live free or die, give me liberty or give me death. Those sayings used to mean that we are much stronger than the enemy. Most progressives think we are stronger than all this and that we will surely survive (as we have survived much greater challenges). The world is watching how we go about “spreading democracy” and they don’t like it. It is not the America that most of us know and love. America has been taken over by a group of campaigners. They don’t know how to govern. They only know how to win elections (fraud). These are not leaders you should be bragging about. Folks such as yourself have such a weak grasp on global issues, it really scares me. We could be looking at WWIII. due to the cheney administrations unlawfull actions. Please know that it will take +/- 50 years for America to get back the pride and positive world opinion which was trashed by the neocons and the PNAC folks. Please do yourself (and the country) a favor and read about these groups. They do not have your (or your families) best interests at heart. They do not. You are hanging onto a failed presidency. I think you know that, but backbone is sometimes hard to find, isn’t it? Please stop drinking the kool-aid. And remember, the folks who are tracking your phone calls and credit habits are looking at yours also – not just folks on the “left”. You are as much a target as anybody else. i would think a strong American would be bothered by that. Oh yeah, I forgot your scared. I’m sorry to hear that. I thought wingers were braver than that. my bad. Cheers.
Arming Iraq.
One item overlooked: Ten months prior to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, George H.W. Bush signed National Security Directive 26, providing $1 billion in taxpayer loan guarantees which would allow the Iraqi government to continue the development of its weapons. At this time all international banks had cut off any loans to Iraq.
Thanks a lot, Bush 41!
Hmmmm.
@ Pete Fosse
Completely false.
The argument for invading Iraq was that Saddam did NOT COMPLY WITH THE UN RESOLUTIONS REQUIRING HIM TO PROVE THAT HE HAD FULLY DEMOLISHED HIS WMD PROGRAMS.
It was not predicated on him having *already* revived his WMD program but that we couldn’t independently verify that he had demolished his WMD program and Saddam refused to offer sufficient evidence that he had.
The argument was that we couldn’t take the chance that Saddam would, at some point in the future, reconstitute his weapons programs and thereby become a threat. Then there was Saddam’s wide associations with terrorist groups which also offer the specter of WMDs in the hands of terrorist groups that could give Saddam plausible deniability should a WMD be used against America by terrorists.
So you’re totally wrong on “a very elementary fact”.
Hmmmm.
sigh.
1. Here’s a clue for you. Cyanide is also heavily used in industry. An example is industrial strength chlorine gas which is used in water purification & sewage treatment facilities all over America. So shipping cyanide doesn’t make it a chemical weapon you blithering ass.
2. Much of what you purport to show as evidence is largely bullshit. When Iran and Iraq fought a war it was Iran that was our enemy while Iraq was more of a non-entity.
In small words: Iraq wasn’t our enemy and weren’t under international sanctions.
3. A lot of the crap in those “evidence” links are simply regurgitating of events in the Iran Iraq War. Which is frankly completely fucking irrelevant because those specific events didn’t involve America.
4. A lot of the “testimony” is from Democratic politicians looking to score political points, not experts. If you think some testimony from “Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas” is going to impress me, then you’ve got a screw loose.
5. You want to claim America sent chemical weapons to Iraq or sold such shit. Then prove America shipped VX or Sarin or mustard gas.
Otherwise you’re full of shit.
$300b, 2500 soldiers, and counting for some degraded nerve gas over ten years old? that was the grave and growing threat? i hate to resort to personal attacks but only idiots still support this president.
Hmmm.
@ robert lewis
HEY DUMBASS!
Did you actually read “National Security Directive 26” or are you just spewing some crap you read elsewhere?
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsd/nsd26.pdf
Hmmm.
Actually you’re the fucking idiot.
The supporting arguments for invading Iraq have been posted a thousand times. You’re fucking wrong. You’re a fucking idiot.
Read the fucking archives and don’t waste my time.
I need a break. The idiot-i-meter has redlined.
Ed – you do need a break; from drinking the Kool-Aid.
What is your well spun take on the Riegle Report?
You’re a fucking idiot.
How about weapons grade botulism? What about anthrax?
Are you really that fucking stupid?
A lot of the crap in those “evidence” links are simply regurgitating of events in the Iran Iraq War. Which is frankly completely fucking irrelevant because those specific events didn’t involve America.
Through the looking glass, I guess. What is it going to take to get you to pull your proverbial (or real) head out of your ass and actually read the links provided?
Didn’t Involve America:
July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops.
Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post. 15 December, 1986
Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq.
Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
I won’t bother to paste any more of “indrid’s” list b/c it’s available in the link I provided. I also won’t post any links to alternet, et al because you pathetic Kool Aid drinkers think you can dismiss them with a wave of the hand.
The supporting arguments for invading Iraq have been posted a thousand times. You’re fucking wrong. You’re a fucking idiot.
Read the fucking archives and don’t waste my time.
And the goalposts have been moved a thousand times. The dingbat neocons here have yet to (and never will) admit that:
1) The Reagan/Bush administration played a large part in arming the damn Iraqis with WMDs, and at best looked the other way as they used chemical weapons on the Kurds and Iranians.
2) The DoD itself already deflated the over-stated relevance of the latest news release – which still doesn’t stop wingers from spouting off at the mouth. Where’s the press conference from Bush? Wouldn’t they be trumpeting any REAL WMD finds far and wide?
Finally, where are the links, Kool Aid drinkers? Ed can spew garbage out of his pie hole all he wants, and cite the authoratitive “archives” ’till the cows come home, but I guess providing links is just too much work.
Again, to anyone other than Ed, who would prefer to have any dialogue degenerate into name calling and denials without proof, please give me some links to rebut the assertions/facts in the post by “indrid” and myself, and spare me the talking points.
As I said – I’m always willing to consider a second opinion with backing facts.
Taken directly from the Riegle report:
U.S. Exports of Biological Materials to Iraq
The Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs has oversight responsibility for the Export Administration Act. Pursuant to the Act, Committee staff contacted the U.S. Department of Commerce and requested information on the export of biological materials during the years prior to the Gulf War. After receiving this information, we contacted a principal supplier of these materials to determine what, if any, materials were exported to Iraq which might have contributed to an offensive or defensive biological warfare program. Records available from the supplier for the period from 1985 until the present show that during this time, pathogenic (meaning “disease producing”), toxigenic (meaning “poisonous”), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Records prior to 1985 were not available, according to the supplier. These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction. According to the Department of Defense’s own Report to Congress on the Conduct of the Persian Gulf War, released in April 1992: “By the time of the invasion of Kuwait, Iraq had developed biological weapons. It’s advanced and aggressive biological warfare program was the most advanced in the Arab world… The program probably began late in the 1970’s and concentrated on the development of two agents, botulinum toxin and anthrax bacteria… Large scale production of these agents began in 1989 at four facilities in Baghdad. Delivery means for biological agents ranged from simple aerial bombs and artillery rockets to surface-to-surface missiles.”
Included in the approved sales are the following biological materials (which have been considered by various nations for use in war), with their associated disease symptoms:
Bacillus Anthracis: anthrax is a disease producing bacteria identified by the Department of Defense in The Conduct of the Persian Gulf War: Final Report to Contress, as being a major component in the Iraqi biological warfare program.
Anthrax is an often fatal infectious disease due to ingestion of spores. It begins abruptly with high fever, difficulty in breathing, and chest pain. The disease eventually results in septicemia (blood poisoning), and the mortality is high. Once septicemia is advanced, antibiotic therapy may prove useless, probably because the exotoxins remain, despite the death of the bacteria.
Clostridium Botulinum: A bacterial source of botulinum toxin, which causes vomiting, constipation, thirst, general weakness, headache, fever, dizziness, double vision, dilation of the pupils and paralysis of the muscles involving swallowing. It is often fatal.
Histoplasma Capsulatum: causes a disease superfically resembling tuberculosis that may cause pneumonia, enlargement of the liver and spleen, anemia, an influenza like illness and an acute inflammatory skin disease marked by tender red nodules, usually on the shins. Reactivated infection usually involves the lungs, the brain, spinal membranes, heart, peritoneum, and the adrenals.
Brucella Melitensis: a bacteria which can cause chronic fatique, loss of appetite, profuse sweating when at rest, pain in joints and muscles, insomnia, nausea, and damage to major organs.
Clostridium Perfringens: a highly toxic bateria which causes gas gangrene. The bacteria produce toxins that move along muscle bundles in the body killing cells and producing necrotic tissue that is then favorable for further growth of the bacteria itself. Eventually, these toxins and bacteria enter the bloodstream and cause a systemic illness.
In addition, several shipments of Escherichia Coli (E. Coli) and genetic materials, as well as human and bacterial DNA, were shipped directly to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission.
The following is a detailed listing of biological materials, provided by the American Type Culture Collection, which were exported to agencies of the government of Iraq pursuant to the issueance of an export licensed by the U.S. Commerce Department:
Date : February 8, 1985
Sent To : Iraq Atomic Energy Agency
Materials Shipped:
Ustilago nuda (Jensen) Rostrup
Date : February 22, 1985
Sent To : Ministry of Higher Education
Materials Shipped:
Histoplasma capsulatum var. farciminosum (ATCC 32136)
Class III pathogen
Date : July 11, 1985
Sent To : Middle and Near East Regional A
Material Shipped:
Histoplasma capsulatum var. farciminosum (ATCC 32136)
Class III pathogen
Date : May 2, 1986
Sent To : Ministry of Higher Education
Materials Shipped:
1. Bacillus Anthracis Cohn (ATCC 10)
Batch # 08-20-82 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
2. Bacillus Subtilis (Ehrenberg) Cohn (ATCC 82)
Batch # 06-20-84 (2 each)
3. Clostridium botulinum Type A (ATCC 3502)
Batch # 07-07-81 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
4. Clostridium perfringens (Weillon and Zuber) Hauduroy, et al (ATCC 3624)
Batch # 10-85SV (2 each)
5. Bacillus subtilis (ATCC 6051)
Batch # 12-06-84 (2 each)
6. Francisella tularensis var. tularensis Olsufiev (ATCC 6223)
Batch # 05-14-79 (2 each)
Avirulent, suitable for preparations of diagnotic antigens
7. Clostridium tetani (ATCC 9441)
Batch # 03-84 (3 each)
Highly toxigenic
8. Clostridium botulinum Type E (ATCC 9564)
Batch # 03-02-79 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
9. Clostridium tetani (ATCC 10779)
Batch # 04-24-84S (3 each)
10. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 12916)
Batch #08-14-80 (2 each)
Agglutinating type 2
11. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 13124)
Batch #07-84SV (3 each)
Type A, alpha-toxigenic, produces lecithinase C.J. Appl.
12. Bacillus Anthracis (ATCC 14185)
Batch #01-14-80 (3 each)
G.G. Wright (Fort Detrick)
V770-NP1-R. Bovine Anthrax
Class III pathogen
13. Bacillus Anthracis (ATCC 14578)
Batch #01-06-78 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
14. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 14581)
Batch #04-18-85 (2 each)
15. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 14945)
Batch #06-21-81 (2 each)
16. Clostridium botulinum Type E (ATCC 17855)
Batch # 06-21-71
Class III pathogen
17. Bacillus megaterium (ATCC 19213)
Batch #3-84 (2 each)
18. Clostridium botulinum Type A (ATCC 19397)
Batch # 08-18-81 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
19. Brucella abortus Biotype 3 (ATCC 23450)
Batch # 08-02-84 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
20. Brucella abortus Biotype 9 (ATCC 23455)
Batch # 02-05-68 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
21. Brucella melitensis Biotype 1 (ATCC 23456)
Batch # 03-08-78 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
22. Brucella melitensis Biotype 3 (ATCC 23458)
Batch # 01-29-68 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
23. Clostribium botulinum Type A (ATCC 25763)
Batch # 8-83 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
24. Clostridium botulinum Type F (ATCC 35415)
Batch # 02-02-84 (2 each)
Class III pathogen
Date : August 31, 1987
Sent To : State Company for Drug Industries
Materials Shipped:
1. Saccharomyces cerevesiae (ATCC 2601)
Batch # 08-28-08 (1 each)
2. Salmonella choleraesuis subsp. choleraesuis Serotype typhi (ATCC 6539)
Batch # 06-86S (1 each)
3. Bacillus subtillus (ATCC 6633)
Batch # 10-85 (2 each)
4. Klebsiella pneumoniae subsp. pneumoniae (ATCC 10031)
Batch # 08-13-80 (1 each)
5. Escherichia coli (ATCC 10536)
Batch # 04-09-80 (1 each)
6. Bacillus cereus (11778)
Batch #05-85SV (2 each)
7. Staphylococcus epidermidis (ATCC 12228)
Batch # 11-86s (1 each)
8. Bacillus pumilus (ATCC 14884)
Batch # 09-08-80 (2 each)
Date : July 11, 1988
Sent To : Iraq Atomic Energy Commission
Materials Shipped
1. Escherichia coli (ATCC 11303)
Batch # 04-875
Phase host
2. Cauliflower Mosaic Caulimovirus (ATCC 45031)
Batch # 06-14-85
Plant Virus
3. Plasmid in Agrobacterium Tumefaciens (ATCC 37349)
(Ti plasmid for co-cultivation with plant integration vectors in E. Coli)
Batch # 05-28-85
Date : April 26, 1988
Sent To: : Iraq Atomic Energy Commission
Materials Shipped:
1. Hulambda4x-8, clone: human hypoxanthine phosphoribosyltransferase
(HPRT) Chromosome(s): X q26.1 (ATCC 57236) Phage vector
Suggest host: E coli
2. Hulambda14-8, clone: human hypoxanthine phosphoribosyltransferase
(HPRT) Chromosome(s): X q26.1 (ATCC 57240) Phage vector
Suggested host: E coli
3. Hulambda15, clone: human hypoxanthine phosphoribosyltransferase
(HPRT) Chromosome(s): X q26.1 (ATCC 57242) Phage vector
Suggested host: E. coli
Date : August 31, 1987
Sent To : Iraq Atomic Energy Commission
Materials Shipped:
1. Escherichia coli (ATCC 23846)
Batch # 07-29-83 (1 each)
2. Escherichia coli (ATCC 33694)
Batch # 05-87 (1 each)
Date : September 29, 1988
Sent To : Ministry of Trade
Materials Shipped:
1. Bacillus anthracis (ATCC 240)
Batch # 05-14-63 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
2. Bacillus anthracis (ATCC 938)
Batch # 1963 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
3. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 3629)
Batch # 10-23-85 (3 each)
4. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 8009)
Batch # 03-30-84 (3 each)
5. Bacillus anthracis (ATCC 8705)
Batch # 06-27-62 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
6. Brucella abortus (ATCC 9014)
Batch # 05-11-66 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
7. Clostridium perfringens (ATCC 10388)
Batch # 06-01-73 (3 each)
8. Bacillus anthracis (ATCC 11966)
Batch #05-05-70 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
9. Clostridium botulinum Type A
Batch # 07-86 (3 each)
Class III pathogen
10. Bacillus cereus (ATCC 33018)
Batch # 04-83 (3 each)
11. Bacillus ceres (ATCC 33019)
Batch # 03-88 (3 each)
Date : January 31, 1989
Sent To : Iraq Atomic Energy Commission
Materials Shipped:
1. PHPT31, clone: human hypoxanthine phosphoribosyltransferase (HPRT)
Chromosome(s): X q26.1 (ATCC 57057)
2. Plambda500, clone: human hypoxanthine phosphoribosyltransferase
pseudogene (HPRT) Chromosome(s): 5 p14-p13 (ATCC 57212)
Date : January 17, 1989
Sent To : Iraq Atomic Energy Commission
Materials Shipped:
1. Hulambda4x-8, clone: human hypoxanthine phosphoribosyltransferase
(HPRT) Chromosomes(s): X q26.1 (ATCC 57237) Phage vector;
Suggested host: E. coli
2. Hulambda14, clone: human hypoxanthine phosphoribosyltransferase
(HPRT) Chromosome(s): X q26.1 (ATCC 57540), Cloned from human lymphoblast, Phase vector
Suggested host: E. coli
3. Hulambda15, clone: human hypoxanthine phosphoribosyltransferase
(HPRT) Chromosome(s): X q26.1 (ATCC 57241) Phage vector;
Suggested host: E. coli
Additionally, the Centers for Disease Control has compiled a listing of biological materials shipped to Iraq prior to the Gulf War. The listing covers the period from October 1, 1984 (when the CDC began keeping records) through October 13, 1993. The following materials with biological warfare significance were shipped to Iraq during this period.
Date : November 28, 1989
Sent To : University of Basrah, College of
Science, Department of Biology
Materials Shipped:
1. Enterococcus faecalis
2. Enterococcus faecium
3. Enterococcus avium
4. Enterococcus raffinosus
5. Enteroccus gallinarium
6. Enterococcus durans
7. Enteroccus hirae
8. Streptococcus bovis
(etiologic)
Date : April 21, 1986
Sent To : Officers City Al-Muthanna,
Quartret 710, Street 13, Close 69, House 28/I,
Baghdad, Iraq
Materials Shipped:
1. 1 vial botulinum toxoid
(non-infectious)
Date : March 10, 1986
Sent To : Officers City Al-Muthanna,
Quartret 710, Street 13, Close 69 House 28/I,
Baghdad, Iraq
Materials Shipped:
1. 1 vial botulinum toxoid #A2
(non-infectious)
Date : June 25, 1985
Sent To : University of Baghdad, College of
Medicine, Department of Microbiology
Materials Shipped:
1. 3 years cultures
(etiologic)
Candida sp.
Date : May 21, 1985
Sent To : Basrah, Iraq
Materials Shipped:
1. Lyophilized arbovirus seed
(etiologic)
2. West Nile Fever Virus
Date : April 26, 1985
Sent To : Minister of Health, Ministry of
Health, Baghdad, Iraq
Materials Shipped:
1. 8 vials antigen and antisera (r. rickettsii and r. typhi) to diagnose rickettsial infections (non-infectious)
“Bottom line is WMDs were there! and are spread out all across the mideast. Quit trying to rewrite reality to fit Your agendas leftists”
If that is true then the bush administration’s incompetence in starting a war that resulted in proliferation of these weapons has put us all in grave danger. This sort of incompetence should be punished by impeachment.
In the run up to the war the Bush administration identified several sites in iraq which they said were part of the WMD program. Yet, during the invasion the administration MADE NO EFFORT OR PLAN to secure these sites. What? They DID NOT SECURE SUSPECT WMD sites!
The only possible explanation of that fact is that no-one in the administration believed there were WMD’s at those sites.
And again, for those idiots who can’t read:
“Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions. “This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991,” the official said, adding the munitions “are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war.”
“Pulling out of Viet Nam was supposed to make peace,how many died after this solution.If the Devil sent his emmisaries into this world,He sent them disguised as DemoRats.”
It was NIXON who pulled out of vietnam, it was REAGAN who ran with his cowardly tail between his cowardly legs from Beirut. Your ignorance is stunning.
It has been reported in open press that insurgents and Iraqi groups desire to acquire and use chemical weapons.
Ya don’t say…
The way I see it, the pathetic display of reasoning ability that sparked this entire thread has boiled down to two things:
1. The fact that a top DoD official personally threw water on this “big find” (while talking to Faux News, no less) needs to be addressed.
2. Nobody has been able to cite the “debunking” of any of the above posted information/links which purport to tie the U.S. (Reagan/Bush) to Iraq’s WMD programs. Cry all you want about the sources. I want to see when/where/how it was “debunked”.
If you’re like Ed, you’ll put your fingers in your ears and scream “LALLALALALALALA…I can’t heaaaaar yooooouuuuu!!!”. If not, please provide links.
@ed
HEY – A^$%U#@ – get your tongue outa Bush’s c@#%* long enough to read: “National Security Directive 26” which says the US will “propose economic and political incentives” – which sounds f*(&#*g great – except what GHWB did was OK a One Billion Dollar taxpayer guaranteed loan for “agricultural chemicals” which were dual use, and were used in making chemical weapons – you ignorant #%^#.
FYI, ed, after Saddam obtained Amb. April Glaspie’s tacit approval to strike Kuwait (“The US does not involve itself in intra-Arab disputes”), thus launching Gulf War I (which could have been prevented if Bush had told him to back the f*^# off), the Iraqis then defaulted on the Billion Dollar loan – so US taxpayers had to pay it off. Thanks to balless Republicans, no less.
[THIS COMMENT WAS EDITED I don’t usually edit the “f” word, but since I had to clean up the comment anyway, went ahead and did that too. I let most stuff go, but this is just plain silly. — Lorie]
Carter
Do you know anything about chemistry? Sarin gas weapons can last much longer then six months as long as the Sarin gas components aren’t mix. Iraq had use the binary component technique in their Sarin weapons after 1989. As long as the containers are intact then the Sarin component part of the weapons are still dangerous. Once they are mix then yes it could become useless in less then six month or even less then weeks. It would be unwise to use these weapons as originally intended due to their age but one can take the chemicals out and use them or deliver them by other means. “Mustard Gas” powder can become liquid if stored in highly heated area over a length of time therefore degrading their dissemination efficiency in typical delivery system. That does not mean that the chemical is inert.
As for” In 2003 the DoD issued a press release stating that all known legacy WMD sites had been secured”, the key word there is “known”. That doesn’t mean that there they did not find more later or that there is no more WMD.
It was NIXON who pulled out of vietnam, it was REAGAN who ran with his cowardly tail between his cowardly legs from Beirut. Your ignorance is stunning.
————————————————-
Failureman,
Your ignorance is really stunning. Nixon simply turned the war over to the South Vietnamse with the assumption of financial and military equipment support. The Dems cut off that funding (why? you know?). Reagan simply decided he needed to focus on fighting the bigger threat ala the Soviet Union (just like FDR sided with Stalin against Hitler).
Now can you join me in condemning the despicable Dems as represented by Murth in advocating the cut-and-run policy?
If that is true then the bush administration’s incompetence in starting a war that resulted in proliferation of these weapons has put us all in grave danger. This sort of incompetence should be punished by impeachment.
————————————————–
Why would the people on the left advocating the US going through the UN for 2 years and allowing time for Saddam to work with his oil-for-food partners (France, China, Russia …) in concealing and/or spreading his WMDs?
Oh, you are saying that it is good that we didn’t elect Gore or Kerry?
From today’s White House Press Briefing. Makewhat you will out of it, but he seems to do an awful lot of pussyfooting around. “It is what it is.” What the heck is that supposed to mean? Jesus people, the White House will not call them WMDs! Election year propoganda. Period.
Q This document that was unclassified yesterday, Republican lawmakers released it pointing toward 500 weapons dumps or munitions found in Iraq since 2003, of some chemical weapons. Do you consider this as a smoking gun of some sort, proving the WMD charge, or is this old material that is pre-Gulf War? What do you make of it?
MR. HADLEY: I think really it is what it is. There’s a declassified, I think one-pager, that the intelligence community has cleared. I don’t know whether that’s been released to the press.
Q It has, yes, it has.
MR. HADLEY: That’s really the story, I think. And I don’t have a whole lot to add. It sort of, it is what it is. And I think — I read that statement quickly last night and it’s really all we can say about it. And I think people are going to have to draw their own conclusions.
Why would the people on the left advocating the US going through the UN for 2 years and allowing time for Saddam to work with his oil-for-food partners (France, China, Russia …) in concealing and/or spreading his WMDs?
Would those be the WMDs that “we” tacitly helped Saddam develop?
Do you have any proof that Saddam was proliferating or hiding weapons? Please provide links. Spare me the links to the authoratitive “archives” on this site.
Are you saying that Saddam was working with France, China, Russia, etc. to conceal said weapons? Proof/link?
(just like FDR sided with Stalin against Hitler)
Huh? Are you saying that if the Bushs (Prescott et al and their known Nazi ties) were in power in the US, we would have gone with the other side?
What point exactly are you trying to make?
Amazing! I was told for the last three years that Iraq had no WMD-NONE AT ALL!!!-and now it turns out that yes, actually Iraq did have WMD after all but they were old and don’t count and anyway we knew about it so…move along BUSH EEEEVIL!!! Sorry it won’t wash.And now the lefties here are going back to the 80s to blame Rumsfeld for Saddam.Ingrid:So what? Politically Santorum is in the fight of his career- do you think he will let this drop? Bush apparantly doesn’t want to revisit the WMD issue-but he isn’t running again.Santorum and other GOPers are.Now everytime somebody attacks the war as based on the a lie they can point out that WMD were actually found in IRAQ.I repeat:The line from the left has been that Iraq had NO WMD,NONE,ZILCH,NADA-now that is gone.Also-according to Michael Ledeen there is much more in the report that hasn’t been released-what happens if the entire report gets leaked or if Mr. Desperate Santorum can get more declassified? Folks-Pete Fosse-this is an emormous story that will circulate through the body politic much like the Swiftboat story did.The entire narrative of the anti-war left-BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED-has been shattered.
Oops-an ENORMOUS story,that is.
“Get a clue” time:
As I said earlier, this sham marks the end of Santorum’s career.
Maybe he can get a job as the boy who cried wolf. lol!
Damn, Xennady’s right. Ok, left-wing, pack it up. We’ve been proved wrong. All along we’ve all been saying the exact same thing, that Saddam never had any weapons. In fact we said he never even owned a gun, that Iraq was knife-free, and the Iran-Iraq war was fought with Nerf bats. Oh well, I guess we were wrong.
Oh btw, Xennady, HOW do you TYPE with a STRAIGHTJACKET on?
Listen to that arrogant moron! Doesn’t he think the American people are entitled to know the truth!
Instead he’s relying on the Bullsh*t right-wing spinners on getting some Republican political mileage out of this.
These traitors should be shot.
Lorie-
Appreciate your maintaining the spirit – if not the letter – of my post to Ed. One point – since you chose to edit my post – why not go back and redact the A** in Ed’s post to me – or are only ignorant right wingers allowed to use “profanity”?
Well, Mantis you didn’t make any sense there-sorry!Try again! I repeat:The narrative of the anti-war left has been that Iraq had no WMD when invaded.Remember BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED? That is now non-operational.The new line is that these don’t count,or alternatively that everybody knew about these already so its old news.It will not fly.No politician challenged about the basis of Iraq war will fail to note the actual discovery of the most-discussed reason for the war.Again-Santorum is in the fight of his career-do you think he will let this drop? By the way-John F’n Kerry surely knows about these WMD-why isn’t he a liar for denying their existance?
Well Robert it depends upon what the meaning of the word ignorant is is..
And Xennady, great points that I agree with the issue is dead just like the lefts chances of looking anything but stupid this fall..
Lee
David Kay was the weapons inspector that said Iraq didn’t have any WMD’s. He has a dog in this race so anything he says have to taken with a grain of salt. Do you have the link to what he said? You stated that someone said “an assessment of the weapons concluded they are so degraded that they couldn’t now be used as designed.” The key word is as design. That doesn’t mean that they cannot be use by in other ways.
Wayne
Thats a great point! What were they originally designed for? when they were a 100% fresh and lethal, what was the objective of these weapons? to plop harmlessly in the sand or to murder by the 1,000s?? excellent point..
Alright Mantis, you are arguing that 500 weapons are smaller than a break basket rather than bigger than a break basket. Fine, let’s award you a semantic debating point because that is important to you.
Now back to the forest. The Iraq War is an important maorl endeavor by the United States and other countries because it furthers the principles of freedom, and it has some reasonable chance of reducting human misery in the long run. You’ll agree with this sentiment as you wander around the trees, yes? This is really the crux of the matter, NOT your fixation on WMD.
Xennady
Your reasoning(?) is pathetic.
Lorie
In your effort to jump on the Sillytorum band wagon of tom-foolery, you sure opened a can of worms. Seems that these so-called WMD’s have been thoroughly debunked for the foolishness they were.
And worse for you & the rest of the poll-parrot Righties, the Reagan/Bush41 cynical hand in playing footsie w/ Saddam has been thoroughly vetted in the posts above.
This entire thread shows exactly what happens when Republican right wing kooks, incompetents and neo-cons are in charge of foreign policy. All the patriotic jingoism & chest-thumping have thrown this country from the frying pan into the Middle East fire.
The key word is “design”.
No the key word is they are not WMDs.
Sorry – I don’t have a link. I saw it on Yahoo News. As I’ve been told by Paul at Whizbang several times when I’ve challenged his quotes – Google it yourself – although Paul usually adds a few expletives.
and let me get this straight, Wayne. David Kay is the guy BUSH sent to Iraw to track down WMDs, and now you are challenging his opinion on this, suggesting he has a reason to lie?
Amazing.
It was your damn semantic point in the first place. That you persisted is your own fault.
Now back to the forest.
This was a thread about the existence of WMD in Iraq, we were not exactly discussing whether the war is just.
The Iraq War is an important maorl endeavor by the United States and other countries because it furthers the principles of freedom,
That remains to be seen. I for one doubt it will, but I still have some hope.
and it has some reasonable chance of reducting human misery in the long run.
Same as above.
You’ll agree with this sentiment as you wander around the trees, yes?
I’ll agree that those are the goals we should be seeking, whether or not the Iraq war will achieve them is still far from certain.
This is really the crux of the matter, NOT your fixation on WMD.
I don’t have a fixation. That’s what this thread is about.
I’m dazzled by your brilliance Mak44-NOT! Care to explain how I’m wrong? No? I thought so.Lee:Sarin filled 155mm Artillery shell are not WMD? Oh really? Let’s have an election on that, buddy.We’ll see if the American people think Sarin is a WMD.
Santorum Santorium Scorecard
(Home) Wizbang Ship of Fools 0
Visitors) Reasoned Intellect 100 & counting
Gee, I need to clean my toilet, anybody know where I can get Me a shell of Mustard Gas from Iraq? cause its way less harmful then all the WMDs I currently have under My kitchen sink!
You lunatics have really flown the coop!
Golly gee, Do You think that the feds may be caving in My door any second? i’ve got at least fifty pounds of Weapons grade cleaning chemicals in My pantry and I hate the way the rest of the world talks about My country and My president! So maybe I will just run down/drive down to the nearest Starbucks and detonate My Ajax bomb and say Halleulah..and end it all.
MAKS MANIACAL MENTAL scorecard
(HOME) Yeahs 86
(Insurgents) nags 13
You lose again! same old story, same old song and dance My friend..”
The narrative of the anti-war left has been that Iraq had no WMD when invaded.Remember BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED?
“He’s been a menace forever, and we will do — he needs to open his country up for inspection, so we can see whether or not he’s developing weapons of mass destruction.” – George Bush, 7 Aug 2001.
“Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.”- Dick Chaney, 26 Aug 2002.
“[Saddam] has amassed large clandestine stocks of biological weapons… including anthrax and botulism toxin and possibly smallpox. His regime has amassed large clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons, including VX and sarin and mustard gas… [he] has at this moment stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.” – Donald Rumsfeld, 18 Sep 2002.
“Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets.” – Colin Powell, 5 Feb 2003
“Saddam Hussein and his weapons are a direct threat to this country, to our people, and to all free people…. I will not leave the American people at the mercy of the Iraqi dictator and his weapons.” – George Bush, 6 Mar 2003
“Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.” – George Bush, 17 Mar 2003
“The goals of our coalition are clear and limited. We will end a brutal regime, whose aggression and weapons of mass destruction make it a unique threat to the world.” – George Bush, 10 Apr 2003.
Simply put – Bush lied, people died.
Don’t you wingnuts ever get embarrassed lying so blatently?
Dont You ever feel guilty defending a mass murderer?
Dont You ever feel guilty defending a mass murderer?
Which one, Saddam Hussein or George Bush?