One day the story of WMD in Iraq will be known, at least partially. For now, the information is coming out in bits and pieces. Bottom line — those who said there was no WMD in Iraq were wrong. (Using the definition and standard they set for President Bush, I guess that means they were lying, right?)
Jay at Stop the ACLU has a great roundup of blogosphere reaction to the latest from Pete Hoekstra and Rick Santorum:
U.S. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), Chairman of the Senate Republican Conference, joined Congressman Peter Hoekstra, (R-MI-2), Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, today to make a major announcement regarding the release of newly declassified information that proves the existence of chemical munitions in Iraq since 2003. The information was released by the Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, and contained an unclassified summary of analysis conducted by the National Ground Intelligence Center. In March, Senator Santorum began advocating for the release of these documents to the American public.
“The information released today proves that weapons of mass destruction are, in fact, in Iraq,” said Senator Santorum. “It is essential for the American people to understand that these weapons are in Iraq. I will continue to advocate for the complete declassification of this report so we can more fully understand the complete WMD picture inside Iraq.”
The following are the six key points contained in the unclassified overview:
• Since 2003 Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.
• Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq’s pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist.
• Pre-Gulf War Iraqi chemical weapons could be sold on the black market. Use of these weapons by terrorists or insurgent groups would have implications for Coalition forces in Iraq. The possibility of use outside Iraq cannot be ruled out.
• The most likely munitions remaining are sarin and mustard-filled projectiles.
• The purity of the agent inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives, and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal.
• It has been reported in open press that insurgents and Iraqi groups desire to acquire and use chemical weapons. I have not checked in at the major liberal blogs to get reaction. My guess is that the conventional wisdom is still that Bush lied about WMD and that there was none in Iraq. (I will update later if I find this not to be the case.) What I find absolutely amazing is that many of those who believe Bush had something to do with the Twin Towers collapsing and who believe that John Kerry really won in Ohio find it impossible to believe that Saddam had WMD — even though Bill Clinton, the UN, France and dozens of Democrat politicians said he did over and over again.
Over two years ago, I found Ken Timmerman’s report of WMD found in Iraq quite compelling, but no one ever seemed to pay much attention to it. (Be sure to read it if you aren’t already familiar with it .) Maybe eventually all the information found will be compiled and we will have a comprehensive picture of everything that has been found. Maybe the media will even decide to report it.
UPDATE: From A Real Ugly American (via Flopping Aces’ excellent, must read post):
General Tom Mcinerney is reporting on Fox Hannity and Colmes right now that that the administration has been keeping this low profile to avoid exposing 3 of the 5 members of the UN Security council; Russia, China, and France. McInerney says these weapons will be traced to these countries, and asserts it is well known that Russia helped Saddam move most of his WMD stockpiles out of Iraq before the war.
I have on several occasions speculated about why the President would not be touting the information we have about WMD found in Iraq and had come to a similar conclusion. My theory was that if the public knew that certain other countries had been involved with moving WMD, they would demand action that we did not want to, or were not able to, take.
Check out Pajamas Media’s WMD Files for previous blogging on the subject. Just for the record, I never doubted.
Don’t expect much of a reaction from the left. After all, we’ve been told thousands of times that Bush lied, there are no WMDs. It’s been said so many times, it’s now true, right?
A few hundred shells != a WMD program that was ongoing and being re-constituted. I am by no means a member of Team Lefty, but you can’t point to a few hundred shells as a proper justification for making the WMD claim.
Are they Chemical weapons, yes, but this is not the level of WMD we were told about. You need to be honest with yourselves and say does this rise to the level of WMD acceptable to go to war for (yes I know WMD wasn’t the only reason we went to Iraq, but its the Administrations fault for making it appear to be the primary one) and because of that, when stockpiles are not found, when operational centrifuges, mobile weapons labs, and drones equiped to delver airial agents are still not discovered, it doesn’t bolster your position to play the WMD card.
This focus on WMDs is continuing to confound me. The war is right whether or not we were lied to, whether or not some facts were wrong, and whether or not it is more difficult than some expected.
The war is right because a dictator who is responsible for so much carnage in the world (some 2,000,000 dead) was removed from power. And as a correlary benefit, we have a historic opportunity to spread freedom and democracy in the world. The spread of democracy will eventually mean the end of war, since democracies never war against each other.
The suffering inflicted by Saddam Hussein on mankind were almost entirely from bullets of mass destruction. So some Senator grasping for attention announces that old WMDs were found? Okay duh, but it does not matter in the final analysis, and I thought we already knew it. Focus on this issue entirely misses the morality of our historic effort.
Gabriel,
Move the goal posts any way you want. The “Saddam had no WMD” meme is officially dead.
Pre-1991 remnants = WMDs?
Nope.
You guys are getting desperate. What a pleasure to watch the conservative movement self-destruct hip-deep in your own spew of mis-informationl.
Huzzah! and good riddance.
“Okay duh, but it does not matter in the final analysis, and I thought we already knew it. Focus on this issue entirely misses the morality of our historic effort.”
Huh? The only ones who miss “the morality” of this effort are the same crowd who think BushLied ™.
Downplaying this plays right into their hands.
Quashing their potential “BushLied about Iraq, how can we trust him on Iran?” meme is priority A-1 at the moment.
Ah, yes. One half of the liberal template is that Bush is incredibly dumb and incompetant, yet he can steal two elections and con the entie world into believing that Saddam had WMD, thus leading the USA into a war for oil and Hailburton.
The other half is sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting “lalalalala I can’t hear you because you’re stupid and I don’t want to even consider a damn word you say lalalalala!”
Makes perfect sense to a dunderheaded Kossite.
Lee, your schtick is so 2004. You need new material, dude.
Gabriel Chapman at June 22, 2006 12:56 AM
Ok, pulled from the above mentioned FloppingAces post:
How much WMD constitutes WMDs to you people? I suspect your answer would come out like Dr. Evil looking over his shoulder at Number Two… One [pause] Hundred [pause] Bill-ion [pause] Tons! as Number Two nods his approval.
The. left. lied. By their own standard.
HAHAHAHAHA! So true Big Mo! It seems more like the left is drowning in its own stupidity and are already on high alert to cover it up! I have checked all major online papers, NYTimes, LA Times, ect. NOTHING ON THE WMD’S. If its not that significant, they would be all over themselves to say so. Their silence is our pleasure. However I see plenty in the blogs and on Fox News. Hee Hee. Can’t wait to see what the idiot John Kerry says! oh wait I already know! “I belived Saddam had WMD’s before I didn’t believe it”. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Ask the Kurds what they think of the argument that these shells aren’t dangerous.
Sorry JB, what Santorum announced isn’t that exciting. They are some old weapons lying around. We’ve seen reports about them already, a shell here, a stash there. Fine, okay, be happy I guess, but they matter not to righteousness of our heroic effort.
I really don’t give a rats ass about quashing anyone’s partisan political points. I’ll leave that pointless activity to the knee-jerk party people. Liberalism is a mental disorder, so I’m not sure that refuting their foolishness is a reasonable use of time.
If this were news, by the way, it wouldn’t be Rick Santorum announcing it.
Umm, it wasn’t just him. It broke on the Sean Hannity radio show.
What’s news is that it looks like Santorum and… what’s his name — themselves don’t believe what they were saying — that they know it’s a lie. You could hear their lips smacking from their nervousness.
I wonder if George will give them a cookie for their performance.
Oh — Sean Hannity’s radio show? That makes it legitimate?
Man, are you guys well trained….
It seems more like the left is drowning in its own stupidity and are already on high alert to cover it up! I have checked all major online papers, NYTimes, LA Times, ect. NOTHING ON THE WMD’S.
Well, you missed the Washington Post:
Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, and Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) told reporters yesterday that weapons of mass destruction had in fact been found in Iraq, despite acknowledgments by the White House and the insistence of the intelligence community that no such weapons had been discovered.
…
Last night, intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.
You remember the Deulfer Report, right?
While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.
Lol, some guy didn’t just come on his show you moron. It was news. Breaking news.
McCain, above, states: This focus on WMDs is continuing to confound me. The war is right whether or not we were lied to, whether or not some facts were wrong, and whether or not it is more difficult than some expected.
McCain, you are correct that the war is right either way. However, the focus on the WMDs IS part of the War Against the Dems (and the MSM), which IS a crucial part of the Global War On Terrorism!
Yes Mantis, The Washington Post does have it, I stand corrected. HOWEVER, you have to SEARCH for the damn article. It is by no means a top story in their piece of trash paper.
Lorie B, I reread your “just for the record”, above, from polipundit, and I never doubted your keen observation, then and now! You are always right on!
You DON’T need TO search, it’s on the front PAGE.
Hey, randomly typing words wasn’t as fun as it looked. Guess you have to be crazy.
Mantis, most of these weapons were discovered after the Deufler report was issued. The declassified report Santorum was talking about were about weapons discovered after May 2004 thru now. The Deufler report was issued in September 2004 so it is mostly irrelevant. These weapons still aren’t very important, but at least come to the table with facts rather than your cute liberal disinformation.
Here is the Santorum doc:
http://www.nationalreview.com/pdf/NEGRPONTELETTER.pdf
Remember the SIX MONTHS it took for the U.S. to get a UN go-ahead for Gulf War Part II? Do you really think Saddam didn’t use them to hide WMD’s? Wanna buy a bridge?
It doesn’t matter when the WMD was made. It was there and the U.N. and it’s million dollar inspectors didn’t find it. What else didn’t they find? I’ll bet they found lots and lots of money when the left. Someone probably stuffed it in their luggage while they were out and they didn’t see it.. Every day the U.N proves to be more and more of a joke.
I expect the airways to be fully of apologies tomorrow. Several hundred democrats should sit down for a full serving of crow, and then go jump off the tallest building in D.C. They are a sham and a disgrace to the country.
Now everyone should demand the release of everything the CIA is hiding to protect the U.N., (our enemies) Germany, France, Russia, China and evidently the hapless CIA themselves. Time to level with the American people, or was this supposed to be an october surpri’z’e?
Just noticed this hilarious site because of a search on the Santorum “news”.
You have GOT to be kidding. If you’re going to tout 15 year old degraded sarin shells as the reason to spend 2500 lives….20,000 limbs and assorted body parts…tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis…and likely a trillion dollars…you will be known forever as the most desperate partisans in history.
Never mind…you’ve got that designation sewn up.
Wow. You people are genuinely insane.
On the one hand it’s terrifying, but on the other, I assume part of America has always been this nuts, and the internet has just made you more visible.
AJR, again, the WMD issue is NOT for the importance of the War in Iraq or Global War on Terrorism (which would have been correct either way for other reasons), but the WMD issue IS imporant in the War Againts the Dems (and the MSM) since the Dems and the MSM are allies and supporters of the enemies of the USA in the GWOT!
Mantis, most of these weapons were discovered after the Deufler report was issued.
How do you know that?
The declassified report Santorum was talking about were about weapons discovered after May 2004 thru now. The Deufler report was issued in September 2004 so it is mostly irrelevant.
Ah, I see. You know they didn’t find these weapons before September 2004. How, exactly?
These weapons still aren’t very important, but at least come to the table with facts rather than your cute liberal disinformation.
Which part was disinformation? The ISG acknowledged finding some abandoned, pre-1991 chemical munitions. They also note that they didn’t look at everything and that more would probably be found. So maybe these were already seen by the ISG, maybe they were found afterwards. Either way…oh I’ll just let Fox News tell it:
“This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991,” the official said, adding the munitions “are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war.”
Well Mantis just how many sarin-filled artillery shell does it take to count as a WMD? 501? 1000? Or a million? And if Saddam unilaterally destroyed his stockpiles why did they find FIVE HUNDRED ROUNDS of this stuff?
What is this Mantis? The ISG acknowledged finding pre-gulf war chemical munitions? I thought there were no WMD,NONE AT ALL! BUSH LIED US INTO WAR!!! Now you tell me there were WMD after all,and everybody already knew it because of the Duelfer report? So I guess that makes it old news right-move along, nothing to see here… Well no actually this torpedoes the entire Democratic case against the war…Sorry!
Xennady, you’re an idiot. Everyone knew Saddam had chemical weapons in the 1980s and that he used them on the Kurds and Iranians. That some of them were not destroyed and were forgotten about was predicted and small amounts were found here and there, according to the Duelfer report. So what? They’re not worth anything militarily. This is old news being pulled out by a desperate politician who’s getting killed in the polls.
If we had found weapons that were actually useful and you know, supported the case for war, don’t you think the White House might announce it?
Oh I’m an idiot am I? Well, Mantis, allow me to retort.The line from the left for the last THREE YEARS has been that there were NO WMD in Iraq and thus Bush lied us into war.This discovery disproves that forever and all time.Now you claim that several thousand pounds of Sarin is useless militarily.To whom? Terrorists? Are you really saying that all this Sarin-which if you are correct-is useless as an artillery shell would be useless to Al-Queada? No-this is EXACTLY the reason why we SHOULD have invaded Iraq.Sorry,but I don’t think I’m the idiot here.And maybe George Bush has more important things to worry about than convincing every last opponent that the war was justified after it is already being fought.For example,collecting loose Sarin-filled artillery rounds before terrorists get them?
If there was usable sarin and mustard gas shells, don’t you think the insurgents would’ve used them against our troops by now? The Baahists had 3 years, plus the tech and know-how to use them, so why haven’t they?
Apparantly they have not. That’s the bottom line, isn’t it?
Did anyone here bother to read the actual fax released by Negroponte? Judging by the comments here, it sure don’t look it. But hey, that’s righties for ya; complex info analysis is beyond their skill. They should stick to watching men in in underwear grope each other in front of the TV and leave the proper discussion to those who can think and read.
Now you claim that several thousand pounds of Sarin is useless militarily.
Yes.
To whom? Terrorists? Are you really saying that all this Sarin-which if you are correct-is useless as an artillery shell would be useless to Al-Queada?
Yes.
Dear god America has a lot of stupid people. It’s enough to make you despair for the concept of democracy.
mantis, I think you’re the most relatively sane leftist here, so I’m going to address you — the others are beyond reason and, possibly, beyond hope.
1) Yes, the weapons appear to predate the first Gulf War. That puts them in the category of ones Saddam was supposed to have reported and destroyed under international supervision, by the terms of his surrender. He did not do so, therefore the agreement that ended that war is null and void. Renewal of hositilities may commence.
2) The most likely explanation for why the terrorists haven’t used these weapons is that they didn’t know where they were. Saddam hid them quite well.
3) This single announced discovery amounts to over a ton and a half of poison gas. That’s the weight of a small-to-medium car, in gas form. And 500 shells — imagine 500 bullets. Now blow those bullets up until they’re 6″ in diameter — that’s a 155mm artillery shell, roughly.
4) WMDs are clearly defined as NBCs: Nuclear, Biological, Chemical. Poison gas is defined as a chemical weapon, and therefore a WMD. 500 artillery shells containing 1.6 TONS of poison gas is a lot of WMD.
J.
I think Jay Tea has summed up why this matters much more clearly than I can-but since the previous two comments referenced what I wrote I would like to respond.First Shadowhawk:Captured documents show that Baathists and Al-Quaeda in Iraq know they are fighting a media driven war much like Vietnam.One of the key arguments made by the anti-war crowd is that Bush lied about WMD and thus lied us into war.Using Sarin on American troops refutes that pretty convincingly. Now grh:WOW! I mean just wow, unfreakin’ believable! Did you know that other people can see what you type here? Yes, America does have a lot of stupid people doesn’t it?
Now I think I’ve seen anything …
A ton of Sarin – and the Left yawns!
Jesus Christ. No wonder we’re losing this war, when we’re suffering from people on the U.S. side who are this unbelievably stupid.
Here’s a suggestion: if you’re so sure this is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT, go ask George W. Bush to speak out about it in public. Ask him to tell the entire world about STAGGERING IMPORTANCE of this.
…what? You mean he hasn’t said anything, and won’t?
Wow! I wonder what that means?
Seriously, if you ever wonder why we will never win this war, you should go look in a mirror. You’ll find the awful truth there.
Hmmmm.
1. Well at least this pushed Kerry onto the back-burner. Anything to avoid more “Hatted in Cambodia”. I think I speak for both sides of the aisle here:
Less Kerry is More Happy.
2. Frankly this whole sudden Democratic requirement over numbers of munitions is pretty ridiculous. A single chemical artillery shell would be extremely dangerous in the hands of a terrorist. Which is one of the reasons we went into Iraq. So it doesn’t matter if there’s 1 or 500. One (1) is more than sufficient because these things are too dangerous to let some people have possession of.
Let’s face facts here. If one chemical weapon was detonated in a shopping mall where *your* family was shopping, this one weapon would be a very very big deal. So no mucking about.
3. What I find curious, and very interesting, about all of this is the rapidly escalating disconnect between President Bush and most of the Republican party. A lot of Republicans have been hammered repeatedly, particularly in the 2004 election cycle, about the lack of found WMDs in Iraq.
Over and above a multitude of issues where the White House is going one way and the many in the GOP are heading in another, such as immigration, this points to a Bush administration that is less isolated and possibly more adversarial in it’s relationship with the GOP and the base.
It’s a somewhat odd thing to have happen.
Hmmmm.
@ grh
RTFA
The report was just declassified.
Well grh-We aren’t losing this war despite the unbelievable stupidity of people that think a ton and a half of nerve gas is useless to Al-Quaeda.Here’s a suggestion:Consider that what you or I consider to be of EXTREME IMPORTANCE may differ from what the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES considers to be of EXTREME IMPORTANCE.George Bush has spoken many times about the war and what is at stake.I wonder why he did that…hmmmm…maybe because a ton and a half of nerve gas would be REALLY BAD if Al-Quaeda got ahold of it.Maybe he thinks that preventing that is what is of EXTREME IMPORTANCE, not arguing with nitwits about whether or not Sarin is militarily useful.And that’s the awful truth.
The report was just declassified.
…and the sigificance of this is?
Think carefully, now.
Maybe he thinks that preventing that is what is of EXTREME IMPORTANCE, not arguing with nitwits about whether or not Sarin is militarily useful.
And…and…and maybe he really caught Osama single-handed, but he just didn’t say anything about it because he’s so modest and didn’t want to take credit!
Keep on clapping, and Tinkerbell may live.
Since nerve gas shells made before 1991 are not WMD, does this mean we can stop destroying our stockpiles (most of which were made back in the ’50s and ’60s)?
grh:I’m not surprised someone so incapabable of rational argument thinks we are losing the war.Seriously-was that supposed to be a rational response? You are making me pity you.Lay off the Disney cartoons and read a book or two-and I don’t mean a comic book.
“That some of them were not destroyed and were forgotten about was predicted…”
Forgotten about? Forgotten about?
So Saddam just forgot he had them. “Oh yeah, gosh. I’ve been looking all over for those.”
=======================
i>”…what? You mean he hasn’t said anything, and won’t?
Wow! I wonder what that means?”
It means he’ll get exactly what we’re seeing here. It’s not enough. It’s never enough.
How much is enough when the issue of “stockpiles” comes up and the response from the left is “A few hundred doesn’t constitute enough for concern.” When the issue of “equipment” comes up and the response from the left is “It was dual use.” When the issue of “mobile weapons labs” comes up and the response from the left is “Those units were clean.” Even though they were too clean. When the issue of Salman Pak comes up and the response from the left is “It was an ANTI-terror training camp. Saddam said so.”
Never mind the Migs found buried in the sand. Never mind the Russian “diplomatic delegation” that was shot at leaving Baghdad mere days after it fell when the Russians shouldn’t even have been there. Never mind Saddam’s own residence situated right outside Salman Pak. Never mind actual meetings recorded and confirmed between Iraqi agents and al Qaeda agents. Never mind Abu Nidal’s sudden “suicide” in August 2002 after living freely and openly in Iraq since ’99.
To say that the Administration made WMD appear to be the primary reason for going to war is dishonest. The media focused on WMD, with pinpoint accuracy and almost to the exclusion of all else. It’s all we heard about. And when at every White House press conference every reporter asked questions about WMD with little or no thought about the many other points for going to war, well then, it seems like it was the only reason we went into Iraq. I can’t believe some people actually can’t see past all that even after over three years.
How much is enough? How many times will the left raise the bar?
Jesus Christ. No wonder we’re losing this war …
First of all; We?
Second; losing?
And considering that one of the major concerns expressed many times prior to the war by both Democrats and Republicans was the very real possiblity that Saddam could hand just a Thermos sized cannister of Sarin and VX to some terrorist organization, the Left’s newfound ability to scoff at a ton of chemical weapons is … interesting, to say the least.
In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now, a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.
– President Bill Clinton [02/17/2008]
I’d also like to point out that when the UN demanded in resolution 1441 that Saddam come clean about his WMDs and comply with the 17 previous resolutions he had hitherto ignored, I am very certain that no exceptions were made for chemical weapons produced prior to the 1991 Gulf War.
Anyways, I look forward to grh, Lee, etc. careful reasoning to support their contention that still potent nerve gas produced before 1991 is not WMD.
And some wonder how you guys were gullible enough to fall for it in the first place.
Next thing you know Wizbang will have found that non existant IAEA report and the circle will be complete.
Tinkerbell indeed.
davebo and grh
It must really hurt to believe in the losing side of history : )
I think Jim Henley said it best.
“just giving the people who want to believe a reason to keep going. “
And Tony, I’m not hurting at all.
But then I’m not part of the 6 percenters.
Swallow hard dude. It’s worked just swell for you up to this point, if less so than for several hundred of my fellow vets.
The left will continue to raise the bar as long as their 3 year old talking points continue to be challenged. I say challeneged, not destroyed.
We are so set in our partisan ways that whatever either side finds, the other side will rationalize it away.
I think the compilation of information that shows a significant amount of MWDs in Iraq is important. How could it no be.
grh:
You’re hinging your argument against the importance of this on whether or not Bush gives a speech about it? That’s reaching. Bush would never do anything else other than give speeches if he were to call a press conference every time something important happened regarding Iraq.
As far as your comments about how stupid Americans are, well that sort of attack is typically made out of desperation. When you no longer have a political or factual leg to stand on, just insult your opponent.
If you think we’re losing this war, fine that’s your opinion, but don’t attribute it to American stupidity.