Jay and Kevin have already posted news that Karl Rove won’t be indicted in the Plame investigation, so if you haven’t read their posts yet, start there.
I am not going to brave the Democratic Underground swamp for reaction. Luckily I won’t even have to because Hugh Hewitt has done it already and Mark Coffey has even categorized the lefty reactions to the news.
Tom Maguire at Just One Minute, which has been the “go to” spot for Plame news, has a good roundup and Stop the ACLU has a list of reaction links.
Michelle Malkin has declared it Rove Derangement Syndrome Day.
Lifelife Pundits have a Matthews suicide watch.
Scott Ott explains why this news proves the GOP is doomed.
Lawhawk has my favorite post title.
GOP and the City has my favorite take:
Karl Rove has avoided lethal injection (for now). As Rovie walks away, his creation (Tropical Storm Alberto) has weakened faster than Patrick Fitzgerald’s case against him.
Had Rove been indicted, you can be assured that Alberto would have been turned into a hurricane by Rove’s Weather Generator (which is stored in his garage). Instead of reports of Karl Rove’s arrest; the news would be filled with images of
weathermenweatherpeople standing in knee deep water, as buildings fly down the street, telling us there are high winds and rising water. Want more proof? Who is the Attorney General? Alberto Gonzalez!
UPDATE: Don’t miss Pat Curley’s “The Night Before Fitzmas.”
UPDATE II: Pat Hynes caught Karl Rove on video in New Hampshire last night making an interesting joke. I am guessing he got the good news before this morning.
UPDATE III: Sister Toldjah makes an excellent point (I am sorry I missed her post earlier) that Howard Dean pronounces Rove guilty, but gave OBL the presumption of innocence a couple of years ago. Another excellent example of Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Bemused: “I cared about 2,000,000 dead Iraqis when sanctions were impeding their doctors’ efforts to care for sick and malnourished children.”
Yes, darn those sanctions which kept that Humanitarian Saddam from providing all that aid to his own people!!
BTW moron, the UN-approved sanctions (!!) did NOT apply to medicine and necessary food stuffs.
What an idiot. Do you know ANYTHING AT ALL about what you post? It appears not.
Bemused: “I also cared about the tortured Uzbekis”….yeah, but not enough to, like, DO anything about it.
Don’t worry Bemused, just sit back, sip your espresso, and make faces at those horrible Americans to your South.
Isn’t it amazing that Canadians like Bemused spend so much time worrying about what the US is doing, and Americans think….well, we don’t waste alot of time thinking about what the Canadians think.
However, I am willing to reconsider that stance since Harper was elected.
Bemused, the 2,000,000 dead Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis occurred almost entirely before sanctions. So try your liberal logic again.
Why do you care equally about Guantanamo as you do about 2,000,000 people dead?
By saying equally, I am stretching considerably to give you the benefit of the doubt. As an American-hating moral relativist, you haven’t actually earned that benefit, but let’s pretend it in order to hear your moral answer.
Anyone here from Mak44 today? or has He suddenly fallen ill?
Several million dollars of our tax money was wasted to prove: Plame was not an undercover agent and no crime was comitted by anyone. And they worry about a contractor ripping off a few thousand when he actually does part of what he was paid to do. Works for me.
Last week we had the moonbat leader in the Senate make a direct statement that their violation of the Constitution was a small technical problem and they could take care (bypass the constitution) of it. Ref: Senate cannot initiate spending bills. Senate should censor this idiot.
Now we have Chuckie Schumer screaming that Fitzgearld should be required to release Grand Jury testimony. No indictment, no information. Time for a senate investigation of this idiot.
Maybe Charles Ray Schumer (is) the one whos been leaking to the times among other rags?
Don’t lecture me about logic, millco88.
Rove MAY have committed a crime and brokered a deal to help another case and to save his own ass. No proof that he didn’t, no proof that he did.
You might need lectures on logic, considering the absence of logic in this post.
You’re claiming he did something wrong. You just can’t name what, when, or where.
Saddam MAY have had something to do with 9/11. No proof that he did, but no proof that he didn’t. (Bad guys in the rolodex does not suffice.)
Nobody is saying Saddam was responsible for 9/11. Attack an argument somebody actually made and not that you wish they made.
are we allowed to comment on this investigation yet?
I sure hope the administration will start to.
Personally, I think he flipped, but we’ll have to wait and see.
Yeah, I can see that.
Man, you won’t give it up.
I cared about 2,000,000 dead Iraqis when sanctions were impeding their doctors’ efforts to care for sick and malnourished children.
Hmm, SOMEHOW, Saddam had money to build palaces during that timeframe.
But there was no money for food or medicine.
And this is the West’s fault?
-=Mike
So Bemused is Canadian…well that explains a lot.
“China won’t invade to take our oil. We’ll sell it to them for more than what we charge the U.S.,”
Actually, you won’t.
They don’t have the cash, and they don’t have enough other resources to pay for it.
They do, however, have enough cash and resources to pay for a large military. Which is currently building up its forces.
…and, of course, the USSR had a pretty damned big military until we bankrupted them. You know, back in the days when Canada was relying on the US to keep the Russians from invading.
Sean – why would he flip? To what end? To roll on Darth Cheney? big mo
maybe that, maybe to solidify his case against libby.
Hello wingnuts, there still is a trial that is going to be exposing a lot of this to the public. the administration is far in the clear.
Yeah, I can see that.
Man, you won’t give it up. mikesc
Good, I’m glad you agree that it is very possible Rove will be testifying in the Libby trial. and why should we give it up? clearly the administration was deeply involved in this in some way and have yet to answer for it. the “we will not comment on an ongoing investigation” was a nice soundbyte for a few weeks, but now that you all are certain it’s over this can all be resolved.
Good, I’m glad you agree that it is very possible Rove will be testifying in the Libby trial. and why should we give it up? clearly the administration was deeply involved in this in some way and have yet to answer for it.
The dearth of indictments proves otherwise.
the “we will not comment on an ongoing investigation” was a nice soundbyte for a few weeks, but now that you all are certain it’s over this can all be resolved.
Apparently, being a leftie means never having to say you’re wrong.
Isn’t the left the same group that whined that Bush won’t admit mistakes?
-=Mike
Isn’t the left the same group that whined that Bush won’t admit mistakes? mikesc
what can we admit? we don’t yet know all of what happened. true there are not a dearth of indictments, but the administration has still not told us the story. We know Karl Rove was a source to Matt Cooper. We still don’t know who Novak’s source. We still don’t know how Woodward supposedly heard about Plame. We don’t know if Cheney or Bush declassified the info, possibly outside of normal operating procedures, before her name was leaked. We don’t know if this was a concerted effort within the whitehouse to discredit Joe Wilson. We don’t know who sent Wilson to Niger. Was there nepotism as some on the right claim?
In all seriousness, what are we supposed to admit?
MikeSC–Bush DOES admit mistakes? That’s awesome! I’m glad he is as intellectually honest as you imply he is. I can’t wait for two more years of transparent government.
Did Ahmed Chalabi tell you that the Russians were going to invade Canada, cirby? ‘Cause that guy’s a liar.
And who do you think is on the fat end of your trade deficit? It ain’t Greenland. You think that your current trade relationship with China is actually symbiotic? I think you need to pay less attention to Larry Kudlow.
What does me being Canadian explain to you, Michael? Is it the fact that some want-wit keeps referring to me as a moral relativist, because I agree with a majority of Americans that the invasion of Iraq, as executed, went poorly? I support the coalition’s efforts in Afghanistan. I am happy that Saddam is no longer in power, and think that things there will improve gradually. You don’t think it prudent, though, to examine how things went down, to ask questions, to praise success, and to criticize failure? Am I a moral relativist when I say that Donald Rumsfeld should be fired? No–I’m a Wilsonian liberal who takes great pride in holding myself and my society to a much higher moral standard than my enemies hold themselves to. I can cheer for the good guys, while criticizing them. Okay? Good.
If I understand how you are using the term “moral relativism”, McCain, then you need to find someone else to apply it to. The term is defined by the online Philosophical Dictionary as the belief system that “there are no universal standards of moral value, but only the cultural norms of particular societies.” If I believed that, why would I be arguing with Americans? I would think that you were right, because YOU think that you are right. I would be an apologist for female genital mutilation, amongst other things. I’m not. Okay? Good.
“Did Ahmed Chalabi tell you that the Russians were going to invade Canada, cirby? ‘Cause that guy’s a liar.”
Actually, the Soviet plan for that was pretty open during most of the last half of the 20th century, and once the Iron Curtain fell, the records were out there for all to see.
It just shows how little you seem to know about how things actually happened during most of the last 100 years. More of that “wish for it and maybe the wolf will go away” foreign policy you guys seem to like. Works about as well as the “terrorists will never come here” policy you tried or the last few years.
This is actually a victory for the Right.
What the ruling says is carte blanche is granted to one of the chief architects (if not the mastermind) to slander and intimidate any reputable critic of (false) WMD or “Imminent Threat” claims so that a path can be cleared for the deaths of 2400+ Americans and 30,000+ Iraqis in the most barbarous manner.
Anyone who is naive enough to still believe that “regime change” and “democracy” for Iraqis were the initial motives behind the Iraq war ought to have the shit they have for brains flushed out- because it’s clogging their ears. Just once, prove that if the “Imminent Threat” claim were taken off the table, as it should have, even by the CIA’s own assessments- that the invasion was justifiable.
All For Nothing, get it?
Zero. Zip. Nada.
Congratulations.
WMD and your mythical “Imminent threat” were strictly PR justifications for the war. Fact of the matter is, the invasion of Iraq was always seen as a strategic necessity in the WOT, since that particular plot of territory controlled by a murdering bastard gave us access and the ability to deal military with the two most serious state sponsors of terrorism, Iran and Syria.
I see that “bemused” is north of the border. My guess is that he gets to be the “mommy” one day and the “daddy” the next.
Cheetoh, you are engaging in the curious cultural phenomenon known as Liberal Logic. Let’s amuse you by pretending that all you say is true. That still doesn’t explain why you would be against our noble effort on behalf of mankind in Iraq.
Freeing Iraqi people from a despot who killed 2,000,000 people is probably a good thing. That is true whether or not some facts were wrong, whether or not you were lied to, whether people get killed with guns or WMDs, or if the job is more difficult to achieve than expected.
In other words, you are begging the question. So take another shot at explaining, morally, why leaving tyranny alone is good for mankind.
McCain,
Those sorts of things do not matter to these folks.
Ridding the world of a despicable regime means, to them:
Zero. Zip. Nada.
Give the moonbats some room today… they’ve had a LOT of bad news. 🙂
it’s not that those things don’t matter, but if the US has to go into every place where there is genocide or a despotic regime and spread democracy, we’ve got a lot more countries to invade. Sudan, Congo, and several other countries in Africa, Saudi Arabia (really the entire Arabian peninsula), Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Cuba, China, some of the old Soviet states, and probably a few more.
No, we chose Iraq, which I guess had to be the first choice considering Reagan gave him weapons to kill Iranians with, but also happened to kill some of his own people. But it was ok then cause Reagan was President.
Talk about moral relativism.
Bemused
What does me being Canadian explain to you, Michael? Is it the fact that some want-wit keeps referring to me as a moral relativist, because I agree with a majority of Americans that the invasion of Iraq, as executed, went poorly?
A majority of Americans believing that the invasion of Iraq went poorly is conjecture. It’s hard to tell where majorities stand as usually the minority is the most vocal; they carry bigger signs and plan more rallies. It seems that polls are not stratified enough to give a larger, clearer picture of attitudes, so I tend to ignore them.
As far as you being Canadian, I don’t have to tell you that you should be proud of that. Canada has done alot more than it’s given credit for, and that’s coming from an American.
what can we admit? we don’t yet know all of what happened. true there are not a dearth of indictments, but the administration has still not told us the story. We know Karl Rove was a source to Matt Cooper. We still don’t know who Novak’s source. We still don’t know how Woodward supposedly heard about Plame.
You keep peddling these inane conspiracy theories. Rather that just admit that Rove did nothing illegal, you still wish to believe he ACTUALLY did so.
As for who Woodward spoke to, he’s already said it was Armitage.
We don’t know if Cheney or Bush declassified the info, possibly outside of normal operating procedures, before her name was leaked.
There is no “normal operating procedure” for declassifying info. The procedure is the executive branch says it’s not classified anymore.
We don’t know if this was a concerted effort within the whitehouse to discredit Joe Wilson. We don’t know who sent Wilson to Niger. Was there nepotism as some on the right claim?
We know who sent Wilson to Niger. The CIA at the bequest of his wife (and saying that, mind you, is what led to all of this). The WH didn’t need to discredit Wilson as the guy discredits himself quite efficiently.
And who do you think is on the fat end of your trade deficit? It ain’t Greenland. You think that your current trade relationship with China is actually symbiotic? I think you need to pay less attention to Larry Kudlow.
Well, I can mention who ALSO championed open trade with China.
He wasn’t a Republican, mind you.
He also took money from them and sold them military technology against the wishes of the Pentagon.
No–I’m a Wilsonian liberal who takes great pride in holding myself and my society to a much higher moral standard than my enemies hold themselves to.
You’re aware that Wilson was also an unrepentant bigot, aren’t you?
Anyone who is naive enough to still believe that “regime change” and “democracy” for Iraqis were the initial motives behind the Iraq war ought to have the shit they have for brains flushed out- because it’s clogging their ears. Just once, prove that if the “Imminent Threat” claim were taken off the table, as it should have, even by the CIA’s own assessments- that the invasion was justifiable.
Bush specifically saying we can’t allow them to become imminent threats should tell you something.
it’s not that those things don’t matter, but if the US has to go into every place where there is genocide or a despotic regime and spread democracy, we’ve got a lot more countries to invade. Sudan, Congo, and several other countries in Africa, Saudi Arabia (really the entire Arabian peninsula), Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Cuba, China, some of the old Soviet states, and probably a few more.
So, you support war without end, eh? Got it.
Can we also toss in Cuba and Venezuela?
No, we chose Iraq, which I guess had to be the first choice considering Reagan gave him weapons to kill Iranians with, but also happened to kill some of his own people. But it was ok then cause Reagan was President.
Using this logic, FDR was liable fo the deaths of Russians under Stalin.
-=Mike
it’s not that those things don’t matter, but if the US has to go into every place where there is genocide or a despotic regime and spread democracy, we’ve got a lot more countries to invade. Sudan, Congo, and several other countries in Africa, Saudi Arabia (really the entire Arabian peninsula), Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Cuba, China, some of the old Soviet states, and probably a few more.
I think when Iraq is finally stable again and becomes a free, prosperous and democratic state (pardon my optimism), the citizens of other states will take notice. While some complain that violence begets violence can the same be said with freedom begetting freedom?
We don’t have to invade every country to to help people, when they see postive resluts right next door they may well want it for themselves.
Sean,
I forgot part of your post:
No, we chose Iraq, which I guess had to be the first choice considering Reagan gave him weapons to kill Iranians with,
Iraq was chosen for many reasons. One, Saddam made a fool of the international community for a little over a decade by making deals at the UN so he could funnel all his money into self-glorification and weaponry while letting his people live and die in abject poverty…which is convenient, because he could them blame their predicament on the US and UK.
And of course there was the compromised MWD information and the ties to terrorism, Al-Queda more specifically.
“Reagan gave him weapons to kill Iranians with,”
Not so much.
The total “military” equipment that Iraq got from the US in the 1980s was a handful of noncombat helicopters (which they actually bought, instead of being “given”). The most they could have used them for was observation (they didn’t – they mostly ended up as airborne limos for Iraqi generals). No guns, no tanks, no missiles. Iraq also got some insecticide (which was unsuitable for chemical warfare applications, before you try that argument) and some military advice.
The other 99% of military “aid” Iraq got in the 1980s was from peaceful places like France, Germany, and the USSR. Lots of Soviet planes and tanks and copters and rifles, some French planes, et cetera…
There is no “normal operating procedure” for declassifying info. The procedure is the executive branch says it’s not classified anymore. mike sc
Really? So the DCI knew the info had been declassified, yet an investigation was still called for. That seems pretty strange.
As for who Woodward spoke to, he’s already said it was Armitage.
The CIA at the bequest of his wife (and saying that, mind you, is what led to all of this). mike
Is there confirmation of these? I haven’t heard any.
Using this logic, FDR was liable fo the deaths of Russians under Stalin. mike
did the fdr prop up stalin to help fight the nazis? the us had little choice to side with the soviets in WWII and did not have strong relations with them before or after the war. and if you’re comparing WWII to the iran-iraq war, wow that’s desperate. moral relaitivism indeed.
Yeah WWII was way worse..thats like comparing Iraq to the Viet Nam war, Nam was 30 times as costly in human lives..