Updated
The Washington Times has a very interesting editorial today about an Arab American woman who stands up to radical Islam:
Her latest appearance took place Feb. 21, when Ms. Sultan engaged the Egyptian cleric Ibrahim Al-Khouli in a live debate about the “clash of civilizations” on the talk show “The Other Direction” on al Jazeera TV. The transcript and subtitled video are available in English (www.memri.org). “The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations,” she said. “It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality … What we see today is not a clash of civilizations.”
Turning to her Egyptian interlocutor Mr. Al-Khouli, she asks, “What gives you the right to call [Christians] ‘those who incur Allah’s wrath,’ or ‘those who have gone astray,’ and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?” Mr. Al-Khouli had previously compared Christians to apes and pigs. “I am not a Christian, a Muslim or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others’ right to believe in it…”
She then issues an even greater provocation. “We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church … Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.”
This woman has guts to say these things on al Jazeera television. She was broadcast into the homes of millions of Muslims calling radical Islam exactly what it is: barbarous, backward, primitive
Update: Michelle Malkin is blogging about this as well.
Hi Angel, don’t follow Sada on the “garden path”. I mean, don’t make a competition which of the holy books (Qur’an or Bible) is the better one and not “corrupted”,. That this is a usless discussion.
The whole world is witness of this catastrophic appearance of fundamental Islam.
“You recognize them in the things they do.”
Thank you, G.Kant I come to the same conclusion as you as well, thank you for your kind words.
(This is a follow-up to a comment posted on March 16, by Angel Robles)
According to our current understanding/definition of what constitutes terrorism, or a terrorist act, the Stern Gang would be considered a terrorist organization, and their fighting an occupying force (in their case, the British) would be an act of terrorism. We in the west used to make a distinction between terrorists and freedom fighters, depending on how we felt not about the tactics used, but about the political/social goals gone after. We no longer make such distinctions. Whether or not you think that these distinctions should or shouldn’t be made, you have to concede the point that according to this new understanding, the Stern Gang was a terrorist organization – and whether or not the Jewish Palestinian population at large supported their cause or their methods, the Jewish Palestinian population as a whole did benefit from the pressure these terrorists imposed on the British and the UN.
In much the same way, we in America are largely seen as a bastion of freedom and democracy today – but we all profit from the years of exploitation, broken promises, broken treaties, and atrocities that the government either condoned or actively participated in. We as a nation not only allowed for slavery, we also forcibly moved the Indians, waged war, and killed them off. We also exploited Asian labor in the west, and denied US citizenship to children of Asian descent, born in America. Over time, there were steps taken to correct or account for these historical injustices – but at the same time, there were other shameful acts too. Some were also in the distant past, and others are fairly recent.
Now, I’d be the first person to admit, that I don’t feel so strongly about America’s shameful past that I’m willing to give up my citizenship and the benefits afforded to me because of it, but neither can I lie to myself or others, pretending that the past is true, and that these awful truths don’t inform our present and our future.
With respect to Dr. Sultan, her lack of real knowledge/understanding about historical events and the context in which they occur seems indicative of a much larger problem; her opinions are set so firmly in her mind, that she doesn’t want to deal with anything that challenges those opinions/beliefs.
I think that terrorism is wrong. I also think that in most cases, terrorist acts are committed by desperate people, with real complaints, and little hope of immediate redress within normal, civil society. They’re desperate people pushed to the edge – and it’s not enough to stop terrorist acts. We have to deal with their underlying concerns too. In dealing with their underlying concerns (social, economic and political) we have to concede that their concerns are not always compatible with our own concerns in the west – and we must be prepared to make real concessions. For instance, if we support/encourage democracy, that support/encouragement has to be consistent – even when the outcome is a democratically elected government with policies that aren’t in the best interests of the US. We can’t selectively support democracy, just like we can’t selectively condone terrorist acts.
Lastly, if we can help to create/restore a sense of hopefulness among many Muslims around the world today, we can limit the appeal that terrorism has for many.
For the record though –
I don’t think that a person should be condemned to death for practicing an unpopular religion – especially if the practicing of that religion doesn’t infringe on other people’s rights. We in the west should stand up and say something. We don’t have a policy of isolationism, and it’s incumbent on us to force these human rights issues when they arise. We must also realize that others are watching us, to see if we’re consistent in the message we preach – and to see if we consistently practice the message.
Once again, for the record –
A man shouldn’t be punished it all for practicing a religion that’s unpolular. Making a religion illegal is just wrong.
ok first of all, u are not young if ur 28.. anyways..
angel have you been to afghanistan? your ‘christian’ or whatever religion american soldiers kill people (in iraq and other places as well) just for being an afghan and being muslim, and you know that, don’t deny it. this happend a long time ago… dont know if u remember this, an american soldier who was stationed in afghanistan stepped or did something that was highly disrespectful to the quran. you make it seem like only muslims are the evil doers. when u are on the other side of the enemy line you only think that you are the people who are doing good and acting civil. cross that line see how the muslims r living. go and see the daily life of a palestinian, afghani, iraqi, arab israeli.
you dont know until u live the life there so pls stop making accusations that we are all plain evil and intolerant of others.
G Kant – I agree and I do apologize for mocking your bible. Islam does Teach that muslims should have tolerance of people of other faith and to never put down any persons religion because they all have a connection to God. Insulting a religion, wheither it be judaism, hinduism, islam, christianity, is like insulting God.
Hi Sada,
in the meanwhile, I think, that You are wilfully misunderstanding me. You may say about “my” bible, what You want. I don’t care about that.
I am argueing against Your narrow-minded thinking, aganinst Your silly and stupid view of the world, against Your believe, that Qur’an or Bible, or whatever, contains the words of God.
Come on, insult the Bibel as long as You want! Perhaps, as a result, You finally become able to get a critical view even of your “holy” book, the Qur’an, itself.
Sada,
You can assume whatever you want (just like you did when you assumed I was a little kid, and ya, I have seen my share of soldering, but after that I’m trying to do good in this world by helping others by becoming a doctor (hmmm, that takes like eight or nine years to do, I guess all college students aren’t 19, but then again ignorance leads people to create their own assumptions). I have seen how the Palestinians live, and I wonder why they still live in squalid refugee camps? it’s because other arab governments don’t give a rats ass about the Palesinians and they keep them purposley living in a squalid refugee camps, in order to continue to push the right of return to Palestinians who laughed and said that the combined arab armies would throw the Zionists back into the ocean. Lol, well by God’s good grace that didn’t happen, and these people live the way they do because of their own Arab neighbors, and because of no one else. Yes I do know the geonicide that this country committed against my people. My Mother is Nez Perez, and My father is Mexican, and both had large parts of their countries stolen in acts of aggression by the United States of America, and the U.S has invaded my Mexico on three different occassions. We even have a group of young men that died to the last man while defending the castle of Chapultepec who today in Mexico are called “Los Ninos Heroes” or “The Child Heroes”, and they fought bravely and died like men face to face with their enemies, and not like brainwashed cowards hiding in buildings and taking potshots at soldiers, and then running away, Or strapping on bomg-belts and stepping on to a bus filled with women and children. These very men sent their by their own religous leaders, and qauzi-religous groups like Islamic-jihad, by quacks with names like Abu-Jihad (father holy-war). These groups send mostly poor un-educated kids off to their deaths, and don’t care who they kill! These groups or both shite and sunni so I don’t want to hear no more bull about, Oh Sunni’s are evil and Shite’s are good, and true followers of Islam! Give me a break you both follow the same Koran, and you just follow different religous leaders who both preach the same fiery-crap. And no Sada we don’t kill people for working on the Sabbath no more because in the old-Testement all sins where punishable by death according to the Lord “The wages of sin are death”, and with the coming of the Messiah Jesus Christ the son of God, all of are sins where washed away with his blood. Christ was the last sacrifice, and that is why he came into this world to give us a chance to reach heaven. This is why christians don’t follow the old-Testement practices of sacrifice and capital punishment for sins. When they found the dead sea scrolls, which are thousands of years old, they compared the books to the current St. James version of the bible, and found that they where the same, so Sada when was the bible ever changed by Christians? Dr. Wafa Sultan doesn’t say that Arabs are evil people she says that Islam is an evil, intolerant, and backwards religion so get your facts right, Sada about her before you make your assumptions about her! One of the things she says that what other religion names people that aren’t of the same religion “Those who incur the wrath of God” because that is what your religous leaders like to call christians. You should be gratefull for our good soldiers being in places like Afhganistan and Iraq because we are fighting a war of good vs evil over there! You are able to practice your intolerant religion because Americans are dieing oversees to give you your freedom. So you should show some appreciation for your country, and Dr. Wafa Sultan doesn’t criticize the U.S because of it’s past policies because the U.S is not trying to forget it’s past, but it’s moving forward and trying to atone for it’s past transgressions. Mexico lost half of it’s country in the early nineteenth century to the U.S through war, but today many Mexicans live in this country and enjoy it’s freedoms and love this country. I was a U.S.M.C and in our opening Marine Corps hymm they sing “From the Halls of Montezuma to the shore of Tripoli”. The Halls of Montezuma directly refer to the Marines involvement in the taking of my other capital Mexico City. My mother’s tribe was almost wiped out by the U.S in the nineteenth century, and now there are several programs out there to help Native Americans through tribal government that the U.S let’s us do. So Sada How dare you say that I don’t know what’s going on in this world, and about suffering at the hands of the U.S. My people have bled, but this country is forward thinking and is making amends for it’s past while embracing a glorious future. I love this land, and the country I live in, and Islam is what it is an evil, intolerant, and backwards religion that breeds nothing but violence and hate, just like the false prophet who started it Mohamed (my sadika).
Oh my god, get a life guys. Angel i couldnt read the novel u typed..sorry, but anyways, im not a religous person and i really dont care about religion, at my age.. religion is the last thing that would be on my mind. angel & kant , dont get so offended by what ive said. it only shows how insecure u must be about ur own beliefs and whatnot. I really dont care what people follow, wheither it be the bible, quran, torah.. i dont care, as long as everyone can learn to respect other faiths and learn to live with them w/o criticising them.. and inthe muslim case…. why do you judge the whole religion based on what some fanatic arabs did? they twist the meaning of verses in quran, and pretty much make up their own rules and laws,, and if people dont follow it, they get killed. Point being… Islam isnt a religion of violence, as people may think it be. You can pick and chose certain verses from the quran and over read the meaning of it. For example.. theres this surah about jihad, and people would ask why stuff like “smite the kafirs head off..” is in there? well hello, the whole surah is about booties ( i dont know how to spell it..) of war. About what happens if you cross the line with the muslims..
Hi Sada,
once again I repeat: ‘You recognize them in the things they do.’
So one can get the opinion, that Islam is a violent, backwarded, narrow-minded and inhuman religion, which turns against democracy, human rights, freedom and liberty.
“why do you judge the whole religion based on what some fanatic arabs did?”
Because there are not “some” fanatics, but many, many of them. Because dozens of verses in the quran urge these fanatics to act as they do.
“they twist the meaning of verses in quran … Islam isnt a religion of violence”
The following are pure and untwisted quran-verses:
[38.44] And take in your hand a green branch and beat her …
2.228: and the men are a degree above them..
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends;
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them … such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you
[9.5] … slay the idolaters wherever you find them, … then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free
LOL “the whole surah is about women ( i dont know how to spell it..) . About what happens if you cross the line with women”:
4.34: good women are therefore obedient
[38.44] And take in your hand a green branch and beat her …
[4.11-12] The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females
Sada, You will always find words to excuse Your silly and inhuman religion.
BUT I DON’T BELIEVE YOU!
Dear Sada,
“Individual Islamists may appear law-abiding and reasonable, but they are part of a totalitarian movement, and as such, all must be considered potential killers.”
Read the whole article:
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/3450
For the record,
Fuck Islam! I piss on the Koran! Is that short enough for you to read Sada. I would include that false phrophets name in that first sentence to but like Sada I catn speil etier!
Angel – i am not writing an essay so no need to impress anyone with my spelling/grammar skills. 🙂
well, all this hate you bring towards muslim is going to help the cause of reducing terrorism? dont be a smart ass and get real, if you want all the terrorism from arabs or other so called muslims to stop, then maybe the attitude of some people such as yourself, should change to a more positive and open minded one. in the middle east, do they make fun of jesus , the bible, or the christians for believing in what they believe? No, but many other people do… atheists, agnostics, jews, etc etc.
G. Kant – that is what you get in many religious books.. in christianity, the old testament.. the actual unchanged bible also states to beat your wife lightly if she isnt submissive, theres also a nother place where it says a woman is not allowed to speak in a church unless a man tells her to..in the torah, theres also places that state how a man is to lightly beat his wife if she isnt submissive.
Now, look at america today. How many battered women shelters are there? what are the divorce rates? how many woman (even the pregnant ones) are abused or killed by their husband every day? Look at how many bastards there are in the u.s.a. Many men..who feel woman or nothing but a piece of meat or eye candy, sleep with a woman, she could turn out pregnant, and then.. what happens? he leaves her, no marriage, no committment, no love.. nothing.
We can go on and on like this forever, but in truth in America statistics get recorded, and most are public information. How many Muslim women are abused and killed in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia? How many honor killings are performed by fathers and brothers of Muslim women in Muslim countries? How many crimes against women go un-reported in these Muslim countries? How many women are publicly stoned to death because they decided to be with a Muslim man out of wedlock, and when the man left them they where stoned to death because of it? So what if some people in America make fun of strange foreign customs. Many men and women have died so that we may have the right to speak our minds here! You are so quick to criticize the U.S, and maybe you should go back to a Muslim country where there are no battered women shelters! People like you need to see what it is to live in one of these backwards societies so that you can truly appreciate the United States, and I’m not saying the U.S is perfect. I don’t hate Arabs or Persians or whatever other middle-eastern nationality you can think of. I hate Islam and it’s backwards and inhuman ways, and Yeah Americans might make fun of Islam but we aren’t making videos where are citizens inhumanly decapitate men and women of other beliefs with small steak knifes!
And talk about unchanged bibles the Muslims have written an entire new book! The New Testement hasn’t been changed for two thousand years since the times of Jesus Christ! Sada is just repeating what some Islamist Koranist taught her to say like a parrot about the Christian Bible. Aren’t these the same people who send kids out to blow themselves up and to kill as many inocent women and children as possible in the name of Islam?
And talk about unchanged bibles the Muslims have written an entire new book! The New Testement hasn’t been changed for two thousand years since the times of Jesus Christ! Sada is just repeating what some Islamist Koranist taught her to say like a parrot about the Christian Bible. Aren’t these the same people who send kids out to blow themselves up and to kill as many inocent women and children as possible in the name of Islam?
Dear Sada,
perhaps You are right, that the old testament states to beat your wife. I don’t care about that, because:
1. I told You, that christians consider foremost the NEW testament (it’s my opinion, I am not religious).
2. This is very important: Christians do NOT think, that it is allowed to beat their wifes. This is a great difference to the muslims. On the contrary, for christians it is forbidden to beat women and it is a crime, which is punished by law. Muslims, on the other hand, beat their wives and think they are allowed to do so by Quran. No christian would argue with the Bible, that he is allowed to beat his wife. That’s the difference!
3. Once again, I state, that it is a useless discussion, which of the “holy” books is the better one, because they are all “shit books”.
My “holy book” is the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
“Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,
Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,
…
Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom, … ”
This is only part of the Preamble.
If You want to read more: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
Sada, when You “look at america today…”, what do You want to say? I agree, that there is not enough love in the world. We could discuss, if Your view is too dramatic. But what do you want to point out, when You state this evil? Do You honestly want to argue, that the quran is a better choice for women than liberty and democracy?
“Moderate” Muslims Muddy the Waters
Read it:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/JacobThomas60408.htm
Wafa Sultan’s Lies already Refuted :
http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/wafa_sultan.htm
God bless Wafa Sultan for speaking the truth!!!