“The List” of Islamic Terrorist’s attacks over 3,000 since 911.
Charles BannermanFebruary 5, 2006
Sometimes the most dangerous person is the one who allows himself to be pushed and pushed by a bully until he finally just says Thats Enough and commences to clean the bully’s clock.
I don’t think the non Muslem world is prepared to put up with much more of the Islamist anarchey and we are going to start seeing reprisals soon.
I don’t want a religeouse war with the Islamists but I think it is right around the corner.
Chuvl
EdFebruary 5, 2006
WE ARE in a religious war or hadn’t you noticed.
Ed
Charles BannermanFebruary 5, 2006
Its true we are in a religeous war. The problem is we are not fighting back.
I think the Islamists are going to push a little too far (in my opinion they already have ) and then we will do whats necessary.
Chuck
Steve CrickmoreFebruary 5, 2006
Before we start ‘charging the ramparts’, I think it is worthwhile trying to understand the rage that animates these Moslims, and how we might defuse them. As Simon Jenkins writes the critical question may be do ‘we truly want to share a world in peace with those who have values and religious beliefs different from our own.” (even as Jay infers many don’t want peace with us). Judging by most of the commenters here, the answer seems to be a resounding ‘no’, which if reflective of Americans, makes me question the wisdom of of our heavy presence in that incendiary part of the world, in the first place.
WilliamFebruary 5, 2006
I hope the Islamofacists understand that they have begun the 10th Crusade!
“do ‘we truly want to share a world in peace with those who have values and religious beliefs different from our own.”
Only if they learn to not try and shove it down our throats, thank you.
Somehow I don’t think that’s possible given the writings (or rantings) of Prophet Mohammad(peace be with him or we’ll cut your heads off and bomb you).
B MoeFebruary 5, 2006
Crickmore, are the Muslim’s going to have to kick your fucking door in before you get it through your thick head that they are the intolerant ones?
Charles BannermanFebruary 5, 2006
Crickmore:
There comes a point when you have to push back or roll over.I prefer to push back.
These assholes are intent on destroying any society that is not Islamic and people who don’t fight back are going to be out of luck.
Chuck
RobertFebruary 5, 2006
Steve,
I am Jewish. I am not a Christian. I CANNOT TRAVEL to a 25% of this Earth because of the blood that flows through my Veins. Not because what I have said, what I believe or any actions of my own. But becuase I am a Jew.
Any Muslim who believes in the concept of Jihad, that believes that all Muslim Lands (past ruled) need to be returned back to the control of the Muslims, and if they do not recognize the right of Israel to exist and have defensible borders cannot be reasoned with and they should go to hell.
The Cartoon crap that is going on now is going on PRECISELY people keep questioning themselves why cant we just get along. The answer is fucking simple. They do not want too. They want it their way and that is all. Free speech, sure for them on their terms. NO MORE.
jpm100February 5, 2006
Charles Bannerman has somewhat of a point. We are not going to react to this because the forces of Political Correctness will supress it. That has two effects. It starts breeding resentment here. This will grow and grow until it can’t be contained. It also lets the Islamic extremists feel its OK to continue on their path which will be ever increasing attacks on the West.
If the reaction to this was to tell them to go blow instead of supressing the cartoon and firing editors, there would have been a few burning effigies and a few buildings and thats it. But because the West blinked, we will see this behavior for decades.
YogurtFebruary 5, 2006
OMG, It gets better…
I just heard on FoxNews the “protesters” set fire to each room in the consulate as they went, only to find themselves trapped at the top, requiring rescue 🙂
Crickmore,
Look at how muslims in America are treated, and you’ll get your real answer. And not how CAIR says they are treated, but how they really are. Up until 9/11, most of America ignored islam. Even after, most Americans gave them the benefit of the doubt. Far more than was given to Germans in both world wars, or the Japanese and Italians in the 2nd.
PeteFebruary 5, 2006
Robert, I think your comments are both biased and biggoted .. and I’m afraid that you may be absolutely correct.
I think that the West, in its desire to be tolerant and accepting and all that, hasn’t blinded itself to the fact that we can neither tolerate, nor accept, the dangerous idiots of the world.
Question: Was it a prison break of questionable timing, or did the Yemenese let those prisoners go?
EXDemocratFebruary 5, 2006
SCSIwuzzy,
The lack of violent protests and burned down buildings here shows what is wrong with the ME and some other parts of the world. I mean afterall, for the past number of years the US hasn’t exactly been on the “most loved” list of many Muslims in the world.
PeteFebruary 5, 2006
..”hasn’t blinded itself to the fact”
Correction: has blinded…
(coffee hadn’t taken effect)
ryan aFebruary 5, 2006
Jay Tea, I dont quite understand what you’re doing here. Do you really think that engendering anger and hatred is doing us any good?
How about this for a plan: We look at the news, and see groups of people all pissed off and ranting. They are spewing all sorts of bullshit. They riot and destroy property, injure people, create havoc. Those people get arrested, are charged with crimes, and punished. Period.
What good does it do to add more fuel to the fire by condemning ALL Muslims for what these groups are doing? Let’s go after the people who commit crimes, and leave it at that.
Why are you so hell bent on blaming all Muslims in this way? Dude, I understand your anger, and trust me I’m right there with you regarding 9/11, terrorism, suicide bombers, religious zealots, and psychotic rioters.
BUT THAT AINT THE WHOLE PICTURE.
The ironic thing is that regarding terrorism, dictators, religious zealots, and hate speech I’ll bet that me and you would agree for the most part. Where we disagree is in your propensity to assign blame to MASSIVE groups of people, without any cause. Blame Hamas. Blame Bin Laden. Blame Hussien. Blame decades of war. Blame all the goddamn dictators. Blame all the terrorist groups.
But try to understand that the Middle East is filled with millions of people, all living under some pretty shitty conditions…let’s not assume that they are all a part of the radical program that has them in a chokehold.
So, I understand your anger. But can you at least consider my point of view without coming back and calling me ignorant or stupid? Can you at least listen to me? All I’m trying to do is discourage unnecessary hatred. Why does that get so many of you on here even more angry? Do you guys want to hold onto that for some reason? Why?
Denny CraneFebruary 5, 2006
Where is the outrage from the “peaceful” Muslims? The radicals are tarnishing Islam while the mainstream seem to give tacit approval. How are we to interpret that?
Until these humorless pork-o-phobic chauvinists stand up and denounce the radicals, I’m inclined to view them as a homogeneous beast.
Ryan, stores in the middle-east have stopped selling Legos. Legos.
There are enough crazy people there that Legos are off store shelves simply because they come from the same country as a cartoon.
‘Nuff said.
RobertFebruary 5, 2006
Hi Pete,
I never claimed that I was not biggoted or biased. I am. Everyone is. The problem is that most people either delude themselves into ignorance or fail to see the world as it truly is. I believe that I have a solid grasp of as accurate world view as possible. There are simple some people that you cannot negiotiate with. That is an unfortunate fact of life that the many people fail to recognize.
JackFebruary 5, 2006
To quote Tony Blair after 9/11, “to blame Islam for what happened in New York is like blaming Christianity for the troubles of Northern Ireland.” Just to clarify, no one on this thread feels Christianity is a religion of peace, do they?
RobertFebruary 5, 2006
Ryan where were the Buddhists rioting when the Taliban destroyed the statutes of Buddha in Afghanistan?
Where were the Jews rioting in France when they were being persecuted by roving bands of Muslims in France?
Where were the Jews rioting in New Zealand where their gravesites were being descecrated?
Where were the Christians rioting when “enlightened artists” came out with the Piss Christ?
My point is simple. Its only the Muslims.
B MoeFebruary 5, 2006
“But can you at least consider my point of view without coming back and calling me ignorant or stupid?”
Sure, when you develop a point of view that isn’t ignorant or stupid.
Charles BannermanFebruary 5, 2006
Unfortunately some people don’t get the point until they are personally affected. Sooner or later, because of the politicizing of the NSA intelligence gathering and the Iraq war, we WILL BE HIT AGAIN.
The Islamists are fanatics on the same order of magnitude as the Nazis but in my opinion, the Islamists are more dangerous. They have got to be stopped by hook or by crook.
Chuck
PeteFebruary 5, 2006
Robert –
if my wording didn’t convey the point that I was in complete agreement with your original post (and the subsequent one, as well), I apologize.
I just wonder if we (the West) are getting close to the brekaing point on our tolerance with dealing with radical muslims – and, if so, what’s on the other side of that breaking point – since I’m beginning to get the impression that every muslim has a bit of radical in them.
As Denny noted, muslims are more infatuated with protesting issues of symbolism than they are with protesting true crimes against humanity committed by their brethren.
And that scares the shi’ite out of me.
RobertFebruary 5, 2006
Hi Pete,
Thank you for the clarification. 🙂
I think some of us are getting near the breaking point of our tolerance when it comes to dealing with radical Islam. And, I wish I knew what was one the other end of that spectrum. I honestly admit I have no clue. But one cannot follow Neville Chamberlin’s appeasement policy when that policy simply means to totally surrender everything we stand for.
I agree with you Pete. It scares the Crap out of me as well.
Denny CraneFebruary 5, 2006
B Moe?
What was ignorant or stupid about Ryan’s post? I thought it was rational, balanced, and sensible. My post directly below his expresses disagreement, but between the two, it was mine that smacked of ignorance and stupidity. Hell, I even called the little sand fuckers a few names!
It never fails to amaze me how people get flamed around here for taking a moderate view–especially when they concede 90 percent of the sentiments expressed by the hard-liners. Ryan makes complete sense, and he sounds much more like a grown-up than most of us.
So, Fuck ’em!
ryan aFebruary 5, 2006
B Moe:
Sure, when you develop a point of view that isn’t ignorant or stupid.
Wow, great response. Anytime you’d like to expound your wisdom and enlighten me with your brilliant analysis, please feel free.
I think it’s funny that you are aligning yourself with people who basically haul off and say “Ya Fuck the Muslims!!!” Brilliant. Very impressive. And then you have the gall to drop in and call me stupid, more than likely without reading much of what I have written.
I’m saying that we should go after the people who commit these acts, and leave the whole guilt by association thing out of it. You think thats a stupid position to hold? Why? Why dont you present your postion on the necessity to condemn all Muslims for the crimes of specific groups and individuals? Can you explain why we should forgoe our entire legal, judicial, and moral system and blame millions of innocent people without any proof that they have done anything wrong?
Yes, genius, why dont you explain your brilliant point of view.
Denny CraneFebruary 5, 2006
Ryan,
I agree with prosecuting the offenders and presuming the innocence of those who have not yet committed crimes.
But how do we deal with those who are not yet breaking laws, but merely exercising their rights to freedom of expression by inciting violence or fostering a culture of hate and intolerance?
And how do you feel about profiling? Is it fair to scrutinize all members of a culture that spawns and nurtures terrorism in an effort to achieve early detection and pre-emption of future crimes?
I agree with most of the words you have written in this and the previous thread, but I’m curious to know what lurks behind those words.
ryan aFebruary 5, 2006
Thanks for that Denny.
ryan aFebruary 5, 2006
Denny?
Do you really want to know whats…lurking?
lol
But how do we deal with those who are not yet breaking laws, but merely exercising their rights to freedom of expression by inciting violence or fostering a culture of hate and intolerance?
Once people start inciting violence it’s time to bring the hammer down. Just like riots that occur here. Freedom of speech and all that is great, but when it gets into hate speech and violence, the show’s over.
But still, I’m not going to assume that every Muslim farmer in Indonesia wants to kill me because radicals in Denmark are being psychotic.
Just like here in the states it would be a mistake to equate all Americans with the radical sentiments of some San Francisco anrachists. I wouldnt want to haul off and condemn everyone in Oklahoma for what protesters in Los Angeles are doing. That just doesnt make any sense. But if there are radical and violent groups in Oklahoma that are linked, well, it would be smart to pay close attention to them.
And how do you feel about profiling? Is it fair to scrutinize all members of a culture that spawns and nurtures terrorism in an effort to achieve early detection and pre-emption of future crimes?
First of all, there isnt just one broad all encompassing “Muslim Culture.” Just like there isnt one all encompassing Christian culture. Not all Christians think alike, or act alike, or even believe the same things. Same goes for Muslims.
It’s fair to look at specifics, and to look for connections between specifics. We look at the network of Al Qaeda, and look for connections in other places. But just because its present in Indonesia or Pakistan, doesnt mean we can assume that the entire community is in on it.
I’m not too keen on ascribing certain crimes to any particular culture; I think that gets a little sticky. I think that we would lose a lot more allies by going around profiling people based upon the fact that they look “Middle Eastern.” It seems really really generalized to me, and pretty unfair, on the whole. I wouldnt want anyone to be continually harassing me based upon my appearance. It makes more sense to profile people based upon their actions, connections, criminal records, etc.
I’m all about early detection and pre-emption. But I’m not all about taking away the freedoms that we have here, by any means. I do not want to turn the USA into some paranoid police state. I undestand, fully, the fact that there are factions here that need to be watched, and that makes sense to me. Just like it makes sense to keep an eye on other wacko radical groups here.
I just dont want to see us going around typecasting people based upon race. To me, that’s a sign that we’re losing some ground in this whole thing. On the other side, I know there are certain pragmatic aspects to racial profiling. I understand that Denny, and cant claim to have all the answers by any means.
Denny CraneFebruary 5, 2006
Hmm, nothing wierd lurking in there. In fact, I can’t argue with any of it! Damn.
Still, I’m choosing to take the more irrational route and treat all towel heads with equality–equal amounts of hatred.
(Most of this current mood stems from a recent flare-up in my girl friend’s custody and child support battle with her ex-husband, who is a narcisistic and delusional psychotic Persian liar. Therefore, everyone who looks and sounds like him is tainted.)
EXDemocratFebruary 5, 2006
Ok, I am going to reiterate my point with a question, because with everything that has been discussed here there is one thing missing. A solution.
So here is my original point:
The lack of violent protests and burned down buildings here shows what is wrong with the ME and some other parts of the world. I mean afterall, for the past number of years the US hasn’t exactly been on the “most loved” list of many Muslims in the world.
And here is my question:
Why? What makes the US so different, that although it has been looked at as an “enemy” and has a large Muslim population, we do not have the violent protests?
ryan aFebruary 5, 2006
Why? What makes the US so different, that although it has been looked at as an “enemy” and has a large Muslim population, we do not have the violent protests?
Whats the big difference between the US and Middle Eastern countries?
We’re not ruled by dictators. We have a republic, in which citizens actually have some say in what their government does. Now go look at Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Egypt.
We wonder why the people in the Middle East are all pissed off? Well, I would be too if some guy like Saddam Hussein ruled my country for 30 years.
B MoeFebruary 5, 2006
Ryan, arrest who on what grounds where? This is not a law enforcement issue, this is war. It has been since the beginning with these mutants. I am sick and fucking tired of people who have no concept of the history of Islam telling me I need to be more tolerant and understanding.
I will repeat my message to Crickmore to you: Are these bastards going to have to kick in your fucking door before you realize they are the intolerant ones?
And I will quit grouping all Muslims together when they develop a more distinctive grouping than murderous bastards and those that stand silently behind murderous bastards.
EXDemocratFebruary 5, 2006
Ok, I agree with that completely. Now, what is the answer to this problem? And why, is the US in some way, shape or forth accused of being the cause?
btw, not picking on anybody in particular, unless you happen to think that headchopping, burning, stoning, dictatorships, ect. are the way to go.
ryan aFebruary 5, 2006
B Moe:
Ryan, arrest who on what grounds where?
Anyone who commits crimes, murder, acts of terrorism, etc., wherever they do it.
This is not a law enforcement issue, this is war.
Are you suggesting that all of our laws go by the wayside during war? Are there no guidelines or expected rules of behavior on our part? Yes, in fact, this could be considered a “law enforcement issue.”
I will repeat my message to Crickmore to you: Are these bastards going to have to kick in your fucking door before you realize they are the intolerant ones?
If you’re talking about radical Muslims, I already know that they are a huge problem. If you are talking about nasty dictators, I already know that they are a huge problem. If you are talking about ALL Muslims, then I disagree with you.
And I will quit grouping all Muslims together when they develop a more distinctive grouping than murderous bastards and those that stand silently behind murderous bastards.
Well, then do the best you can to listen to all of the people in Iran, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, among others, who dont exactly live in the most open and free societies. Funny that we dont hear much from people who dont have the right to vote, freedom of speech, or the freedom of religion. Hmmm.
We’ll be drawing old Muhammad on the wall,
We’ll be drawing old Muhammad on the wall,
For even Muslims must admit it,
You don’t need a special permit,
To be drawing old Muhammad on the wall.
We’ll be spraying old Muhammad on the wall,
We’ll be spraying old Muhammad on the wall,
With graffiti that’s persisting,
We will show that we’re insisting,
On our right to spray the Prophet on the wall.
We’ll be painting old Muhammad on the wall,
We’ll be painting old Muhammad on the wall,
Now some claim that He’s angelic,
So we’ll paint Him psychedelic,
We sure hope He likes His pictures on the wall.
We’ll be etching old Muhammad on the wall,
We’ll be etching old Muhammad on the wall,
The time has come to make our stand
Or our rights they will get banned,
And we’ll find ourselves lined up against the wall.
(If you like this, please re-post it elsewhere on the Internet.)
Charles BannermanFebruary 5, 2006
Ryan:
Since you seem to be an apologist for Islam, just go to Mike Savages web site. Savage is a talk radio host. Watch the videos of Americans being beheaded, not with a single stroke of a sword but having their heads literally sawed off with a knife. If you watch these and fail to recognize the Islamic religeon for it’s barbarity I pity you. These people are animals and their fucked up religeon is an abomination.
Chuck
Charles BannermanFebruary 5, 2006
Ryan:
Since you seem to be an apologist for Islam, just go to Mike Savages web site. Savage is a talk radio host. Watch the videos of Americans being beheaded, not with a single stroke of a sword but having their heads literally sawed off with a knife. If you watch these and fail to recognize the Islamic religeon for it’s barbarity I pity you. These people are animals and their fucked up religeon is an abomination.
Chuck
B MoeFebruary 5, 2006
ryan, I am going to try one more time, then I am going to give up on you as a hopeless idiot. We can only arrest people over here, like we did with Eric Roberts and Tim McVeigh. We can’t arrest people in other countries, that is considered an ACT OF FUCKING WAR! Maybe you haven’t noticed, but all these moderate, rational Muslem buddies of yours haven’t arrested Bin Laden, or any of his buddies. They only arrest women and kill them for getting raped. When is the last time you heard of a Muslem getting arrested in a predominately Muslem country for killing an infidel?
ryan aFebruary 6, 2006
B Moe:
ryan, I am going to try one more time, then I am going to give up on you as a hopeless idiot. We can only arrest people over here, like we did with Eric Roberts and Tim McVeigh. We can’t arrest people in other countries, that is considered an ACT OF FUCKING WAR!
Okay, our military doesnt arrest people, they DETAIN them. So?
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but all these moderate, rational Muslem buddies of yours haven’t arrested Bin Laden, or any of his buddies. They only arrest women and kill them for getting raped.
Maybe you’re not getting the point: the people who are in charge over there arent moderates. The moderates are the people under them, getting fucked.
ryan aFebruary 6, 2006
Charles:
Did you just cite Mike Savage as if he is a credible source of political news, as opposed to a sensationalist talk show host?
Savage is an idiot, and is nothing more than entertainment. That’s equivalent to a Liberal citing Michael Moore as a viable political source.
If you watch these and fail to recognize the Islamic religeon for it’s barbarity I pity you.
I do not fail to realize that the person is a murderer, and has committed an atrocious crime. I do not fail to realize that the person who does that should be caught and punished to the fullest extent. I also do not fail to realize, as you seem to, that Islam is just another religion, and that blaming all Muslims for what specific psychopaths do isnt the way to go.
Read what I wrote. I think that terrorists should be found and punished, all of them. I do not condone what they do; I think it’s horrible, vile, and atrocious. I hold the people who commit such acts completely responsible, and there isnt any getting around it.
The ONLY thing that I am trying to get you guys to understand is the fact that we cant go around blaming the entire Muslim world for what Bin Laden, Hamas, or Al Qaeda does. Innocent until proven guilty…ever heard of that idea?
For fuck’s sake I cant see why thats so impossible for some of you people to even CONSIDER.
Steve CrickmoreFebruary 6, 2006
A late reply. Of course, many Arab Moslems, in particular are intolerant of the Jewish faith..their’s is double standard and the moderate Arab Muslims probably live no doubt in fear, of retalitation from their radical brethren for speaking out. But the way forward is surely not a frontal assult..more something along the lines of a perperiod of benign neglect and a shaking of heads..Be careful about throwing out ‘the baby for the bathwater’.. I for one lived in a moderate Islam country of Senegal for sometime and felt considerably safer their because of their rigid proscriptions of thievry for one, than I would if I lived in a less religious country.
jimFebruary 6, 2006
An even later reply! 😉
Glenn noted this at instapundit and followed it back to the source. Look at the 2 x 2 charts! It seems to explain a lot.
Respect for other people’s delicate sensibilities is all well and good wherever they are and, within reasonable limits, whatever primitive nonsensical mass delusion they may choose to believe in. But making allowances for the kind of totally disporportionate reactions we are currently witnessing around the world to the ‘cartoons’ published in the Danish paper, as with the previous completely ‘over the top’ Islamic reaction to ‘The Satanic Verses’ and the similar if less overtly homicidal reactions of so-called ‘Christians’ to ‘Jerry Springer: The Opera’ or ‘The Life Of Brian’ before it, involves taking seriously, if only implicitly, the frankly scientifically ridiculous claims of the so-called ‘great’ religions, which, without a shred of genuine or replicable evidence in support of any of them, (with the possible exception of Buddhism) insist nevertheless on their various fantastic versions of reality being allowed to take precedence over the substantially increasingly contrary but repeatably DEMONSTRABLY VALID picture of the Universe, being gradually revealed to us by the (God-given?) reasoning minds of scientists and philosophers, throughout the long bloodthirsty history of the dressed up glorified talking chimpanzees who currently dominate this tiny insignificant planet.
How can any person aspiring to true intelligence, and possessed of an honestly enquiring mind, take any of these mythical so called ‘sacred’ messages and their historically dubious at best ‘messengers’ seriously, let alone elevate ‘respect’ for any or all of them to greater importance than respect for the real lives of any of the real suffering souls who have to tolerate this continuing outrageous tyranny of unreason? I’m absolutely with Richard Dawkins on this. Take away religion and good people will go on doing good and evil people will go on doing evil. But for good people to do evil requires religion. It really is the root of all evil in the World. Roll on the day when the human race finally grows up and leaves these childish fantasies in the only place they belong: history.
Show me the physics that support your various gods and prophets and I’ll take them seriously, but not a moment before, no matter how many bullying threats the obscenely illogical crusaders and jihadis make. How dare these ghastly hypocrites threaten the lives of real people in the name of their supposedly compassionate gods? Don’t they think their allegedly all powerful deities and their favoured ‘prophets’ can take care of themselves?
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TheReligionofPeace.com
“The List” of Islamic Terrorist’s attacks over 3,000 since 911.
Sometimes the most dangerous person is the one who allows himself to be pushed and pushed by a bully until he finally just says Thats Enough and commences to clean the bully’s clock.
I don’t think the non Muslem world is prepared to put up with much more of the Islamist anarchey and we are going to start seeing reprisals soon.
I don’t want a religeouse war with the Islamists but I think it is right around the corner.
Chuvl
WE ARE in a religious war or hadn’t you noticed.
Ed
Its true we are in a religeous war. The problem is we are not fighting back.
I think the Islamists are going to push a little too far (in my opinion they already have ) and then we will do whats necessary.
Chuck
Before we start ‘charging the ramparts’, I think it is worthwhile trying to understand the rage that animates these Moslims, and how we might defuse them. As Simon Jenkins writes the critical question may be do ‘we truly want to share a world in peace with those who have values and religious beliefs different from our own.” (even as Jay infers many don’t want peace with us). Judging by most of the commenters here, the answer seems to be a resounding ‘no’, which if reflective of Americans, makes me question the wisdom of of our heavy presence in that incendiary part of the world, in the first place.
I hope the Islamofacists understand that they have begun the 10th Crusade!
milites Christi
Here’s a site that actually believes Islam is the religion of peace:
http://www.muslimunity.blogspot.com/
“do ‘we truly want to share a world in peace with those who have values and religious beliefs different from our own.”
Only if they learn to not try and shove it down our throats, thank you.
Somehow I don’t think that’s possible given the writings (or rantings) of Prophet Mohammad(peace be with him or we’ll cut your heads off and bomb you).
Crickmore, are the Muslim’s going to have to kick your fucking door in before you get it through your thick head that they are the intolerant ones?
Crickmore:
There comes a point when you have to push back or roll over.I prefer to push back.
These assholes are intent on destroying any society that is not Islamic and people who don’t fight back are going to be out of luck.
Chuck
Steve,
I am Jewish. I am not a Christian. I CANNOT TRAVEL to a 25% of this Earth because of the blood that flows through my Veins. Not because what I have said, what I believe or any actions of my own. But becuase I am a Jew.
Any Muslim who believes in the concept of Jihad, that believes that all Muslim Lands (past ruled) need to be returned back to the control of the Muslims, and if they do not recognize the right of Israel to exist and have defensible borders cannot be reasoned with and they should go to hell.
The Cartoon crap that is going on now is going on PRECISELY people keep questioning themselves why cant we just get along. The answer is fucking simple. They do not want too. They want it their way and that is all. Free speech, sure for them on their terms. NO MORE.
Charles Bannerman has somewhat of a point. We are not going to react to this because the forces of Political Correctness will supress it. That has two effects. It starts breeding resentment here. This will grow and grow until it can’t be contained. It also lets the Islamic extremists feel its OK to continue on their path which will be ever increasing attacks on the West.
If the reaction to this was to tell them to go blow instead of supressing the cartoon and firing editors, there would have been a few burning effigies and a few buildings and thats it. But because the West blinked, we will see this behavior for decades.
OMG, It gets better…
I just heard on FoxNews the “protesters” set fire to each room in the consulate as they went, only to find themselves trapped at the top, requiring rescue 🙂
The tee shirt slogan is still the most accurate: “Islam is a religion of pieces” (showing dismembered body parts)
Crickmore,
Look at how muslims in America are treated, and you’ll get your real answer. And not how CAIR says they are treated, but how they really are. Up until 9/11, most of America ignored islam. Even after, most Americans gave them the benefit of the doubt. Far more than was given to Germans in both world wars, or the Japanese and Italians in the 2nd.
Robert, I think your comments are both biased and biggoted .. and I’m afraid that you may be absolutely correct.
I think that the West, in its desire to be tolerant and accepting and all that, hasn’t blinded itself to the fact that we can neither tolerate, nor accept, the dangerous idiots of the world.
Question: Was it a prison break of questionable timing, or did the Yemenese let those prisoners go?
SCSIwuzzy,
The lack of violent protests and burned down buildings here shows what is wrong with the ME and some other parts of the world. I mean afterall, for the past number of years the US hasn’t exactly been on the “most loved” list of many Muslims in the world.
..”hasn’t blinded itself to the fact”
Correction: has blinded…
(coffee hadn’t taken effect)
Jay Tea, I dont quite understand what you’re doing here. Do you really think that engendering anger and hatred is doing us any good?
How about this for a plan: We look at the news, and see groups of people all pissed off and ranting. They are spewing all sorts of bullshit. They riot and destroy property, injure people, create havoc. Those people get arrested, are charged with crimes, and punished. Period.
What good does it do to add more fuel to the fire by condemning ALL Muslims for what these groups are doing? Let’s go after the people who commit crimes, and leave it at that.
Why are you so hell bent on blaming all Muslims in this way? Dude, I understand your anger, and trust me I’m right there with you regarding 9/11, terrorism, suicide bombers, religious zealots, and psychotic rioters.
BUT THAT AINT THE WHOLE PICTURE.
The ironic thing is that regarding terrorism, dictators, religious zealots, and hate speech I’ll bet that me and you would agree for the most part. Where we disagree is in your propensity to assign blame to MASSIVE groups of people, without any cause. Blame Hamas. Blame Bin Laden. Blame Hussien. Blame decades of war. Blame all the goddamn dictators. Blame all the terrorist groups.
But try to understand that the Middle East is filled with millions of people, all living under some pretty shitty conditions…let’s not assume that they are all a part of the radical program that has them in a chokehold.
So, I understand your anger. But can you at least consider my point of view without coming back and calling me ignorant or stupid? Can you at least listen to me? All I’m trying to do is discourage unnecessary hatred. Why does that get so many of you on here even more angry? Do you guys want to hold onto that for some reason? Why?
Where is the outrage from the “peaceful” Muslims? The radicals are tarnishing Islam while the mainstream seem to give tacit approval. How are we to interpret that?
Until these humorless pork-o-phobic chauvinists stand up and denounce the radicals, I’m inclined to view them as a homogeneous beast.
Ryan, stores in the middle-east have stopped selling Legos. Legos.
There are enough crazy people there that Legos are off store shelves simply because they come from the same country as a cartoon.
‘Nuff said.
Hi Pete,
I never claimed that I was not biggoted or biased. I am. Everyone is. The problem is that most people either delude themselves into ignorance or fail to see the world as it truly is. I believe that I have a solid grasp of as accurate world view as possible. There are simple some people that you cannot negiotiate with. That is an unfortunate fact of life that the many people fail to recognize.
To quote Tony Blair after 9/11, “to blame Islam for what happened in New York is like blaming Christianity for the troubles of Northern Ireland.” Just to clarify, no one on this thread feels Christianity is a religion of peace, do they?
Ryan where were the Buddhists rioting when the Taliban destroyed the statutes of Buddha in Afghanistan?
Where were the Jews rioting in France when they were being persecuted by roving bands of Muslims in France?
Where were the Jews rioting in New Zealand where their gravesites were being descecrated?
Where were the Christians rioting when “enlightened artists” came out with the Piss Christ?
My point is simple. Its only the Muslims.
“But can you at least consider my point of view without coming back and calling me ignorant or stupid?”
Sure, when you develop a point of view that isn’t ignorant or stupid.
Unfortunately some people don’t get the point until they are personally affected. Sooner or later, because of the politicizing of the NSA intelligence gathering and the Iraq war, we WILL BE HIT AGAIN.
The Islamists are fanatics on the same order of magnitude as the Nazis but in my opinion, the Islamists are more dangerous. They have got to be stopped by hook or by crook.
Chuck
Robert –
if my wording didn’t convey the point that I was in complete agreement with your original post (and the subsequent one, as well), I apologize.
I just wonder if we (the West) are getting close to the brekaing point on our tolerance with dealing with radical muslims – and, if so, what’s on the other side of that breaking point – since I’m beginning to get the impression that every muslim has a bit of radical in them.
As Denny noted, muslims are more infatuated with protesting issues of symbolism than they are with protesting true crimes against humanity committed by their brethren.
And that scares the shi’ite out of me.
Hi Pete,
Thank you for the clarification. 🙂
I think some of us are getting near the breaking point of our tolerance when it comes to dealing with radical Islam. And, I wish I knew what was one the other end of that spectrum. I honestly admit I have no clue. But one cannot follow Neville Chamberlin’s appeasement policy when that policy simply means to totally surrender everything we stand for.
I agree with you Pete. It scares the Crap out of me as well.
B Moe?
What was ignorant or stupid about Ryan’s post? I thought it was rational, balanced, and sensible. My post directly below his expresses disagreement, but between the two, it was mine that smacked of ignorance and stupidity. Hell, I even called the little sand fuckers a few names!
It never fails to amaze me how people get flamed around here for taking a moderate view–especially when they concede 90 percent of the sentiments expressed by the hard-liners. Ryan makes complete sense, and he sounds much more like a grown-up than most of us.
So, Fuck ’em!
B Moe:
Sure, when you develop a point of view that isn’t ignorant or stupid.
Wow, great response. Anytime you’d like to expound your wisdom and enlighten me with your brilliant analysis, please feel free.
I think it’s funny that you are aligning yourself with people who basically haul off and say “Ya Fuck the Muslims!!!” Brilliant. Very impressive. And then you have the gall to drop in and call me stupid, more than likely without reading much of what I have written.
I’m saying that we should go after the people who commit these acts, and leave the whole guilt by association thing out of it. You think thats a stupid position to hold? Why? Why dont you present your postion on the necessity to condemn all Muslims for the crimes of specific groups and individuals? Can you explain why we should forgoe our entire legal, judicial, and moral system and blame millions of innocent people without any proof that they have done anything wrong?
Yes, genius, why dont you explain your brilliant point of view.
Ryan,
I agree with prosecuting the offenders and presuming the innocence of those who have not yet committed crimes.
But how do we deal with those who are not yet breaking laws, but merely exercising their rights to freedom of expression by inciting violence or fostering a culture of hate and intolerance?
And how do you feel about profiling? Is it fair to scrutinize all members of a culture that spawns and nurtures terrorism in an effort to achieve early detection and pre-emption of future crimes?
I agree with most of the words you have written in this and the previous thread, but I’m curious to know what lurks behind those words.
Thanks for that Denny.
Denny?
Do you really want to know whats…lurking?
lol
But how do we deal with those who are not yet breaking laws, but merely exercising their rights to freedom of expression by inciting violence or fostering a culture of hate and intolerance?
Once people start inciting violence it’s time to bring the hammer down. Just like riots that occur here. Freedom of speech and all that is great, but when it gets into hate speech and violence, the show’s over.
But still, I’m not going to assume that every Muslim farmer in Indonesia wants to kill me because radicals in Denmark are being psychotic.
Just like here in the states it would be a mistake to equate all Americans with the radical sentiments of some San Francisco anrachists. I wouldnt want to haul off and condemn everyone in Oklahoma for what protesters in Los Angeles are doing. That just doesnt make any sense. But if there are radical and violent groups in Oklahoma that are linked, well, it would be smart to pay close attention to them.
And how do you feel about profiling? Is it fair to scrutinize all members of a culture that spawns and nurtures terrorism in an effort to achieve early detection and pre-emption of future crimes?
First of all, there isnt just one broad all encompassing “Muslim Culture.” Just like there isnt one all encompassing Christian culture. Not all Christians think alike, or act alike, or even believe the same things. Same goes for Muslims.
It’s fair to look at specifics, and to look for connections between specifics. We look at the network of Al Qaeda, and look for connections in other places. But just because its present in Indonesia or Pakistan, doesnt mean we can assume that the entire community is in on it.
I’m not too keen on ascribing certain crimes to any particular culture; I think that gets a little sticky. I think that we would lose a lot more allies by going around profiling people based upon the fact that they look “Middle Eastern.” It seems really really generalized to me, and pretty unfair, on the whole. I wouldnt want anyone to be continually harassing me based upon my appearance. It makes more sense to profile people based upon their actions, connections, criminal records, etc.
I’m all about early detection and pre-emption. But I’m not all about taking away the freedoms that we have here, by any means. I do not want to turn the USA into some paranoid police state. I undestand, fully, the fact that there are factions here that need to be watched, and that makes sense to me. Just like it makes sense to keep an eye on other wacko radical groups here.
I just dont want to see us going around typecasting people based upon race. To me, that’s a sign that we’re losing some ground in this whole thing. On the other side, I know there are certain pragmatic aspects to racial profiling. I understand that Denny, and cant claim to have all the answers by any means.
Hmm, nothing wierd lurking in there. In fact, I can’t argue with any of it! Damn.
Still, I’m choosing to take the more irrational route and treat all towel heads with equality–equal amounts of hatred.
(Most of this current mood stems from a recent flare-up in my girl friend’s custody and child support battle with her ex-husband, who is a narcisistic and delusional psychotic Persian liar. Therefore, everyone who looks and sounds like him is tainted.)
Ok, I am going to reiterate my point with a question, because with everything that has been discussed here there is one thing missing. A solution.
So here is my original point:
The lack of violent protests and burned down buildings here shows what is wrong with the ME and some other parts of the world. I mean afterall, for the past number of years the US hasn’t exactly been on the “most loved” list of many Muslims in the world.
And here is my question:
Why? What makes the US so different, that although it has been looked at as an “enemy” and has a large Muslim population, we do not have the violent protests?
Why? What makes the US so different, that although it has been looked at as an “enemy” and has a large Muslim population, we do not have the violent protests?
Whats the big difference between the US and Middle Eastern countries?
We’re not ruled by dictators. We have a republic, in which citizens actually have some say in what their government does. Now go look at Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Egypt.
We wonder why the people in the Middle East are all pissed off? Well, I would be too if some guy like Saddam Hussein ruled my country for 30 years.
Ryan, arrest who on what grounds where? This is not a law enforcement issue, this is war. It has been since the beginning with these mutants. I am sick and fucking tired of people who have no concept of the history of Islam telling me I need to be more tolerant and understanding.
I will repeat my message to Crickmore to you: Are these bastards going to have to kick in your fucking door before you realize they are the intolerant ones?
And I will quit grouping all Muslims together when they develop a more distinctive grouping than murderous bastards and those that stand silently behind murderous bastards.
Ok, I agree with that completely. Now, what is the answer to this problem? And why, is the US in some way, shape or forth accused of being the cause?
btw, not picking on anybody in particular, unless you happen to think that headchopping, burning, stoning, dictatorships, ect. are the way to go.
B Moe:
Ryan, arrest who on what grounds where?
Anyone who commits crimes, murder, acts of terrorism, etc., wherever they do it.
This is not a law enforcement issue, this is war.
Are you suggesting that all of our laws go by the wayside during war? Are there no guidelines or expected rules of behavior on our part? Yes, in fact, this could be considered a “law enforcement issue.”
I will repeat my message to Crickmore to you: Are these bastards going to have to kick in your fucking door before you realize they are the intolerant ones?
If you’re talking about radical Muslims, I already know that they are a huge problem. If you are talking about nasty dictators, I already know that they are a huge problem. If you are talking about ALL Muslims, then I disagree with you.
And I will quit grouping all Muslims together when they develop a more distinctive grouping than murderous bastards and those that stand silently behind murderous bastards.
Well, then do the best you can to listen to all of the people in Iran, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, among others, who dont exactly live in the most open and free societies. Funny that we dont hear much from people who dont have the right to vote, freedom of speech, or the freedom of religion. Hmmm.
We’ll be Drawing Old Muhammad on the Wall
(music: She’ll be coming ’round the mountain,
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/mountain.htm)
We’ll be drawing old Muhammad on the wall,
We’ll be drawing old Muhammad on the wall,
For even Muslims must admit it,
You don’t need a special permit,
To be drawing old Muhammad on the wall.
We’ll be spraying old Muhammad on the wall,
We’ll be spraying old Muhammad on the wall,
With graffiti that’s persisting,
We will show that we’re insisting,
On our right to spray the Prophet on the wall.
We’ll be painting old Muhammad on the wall,
We’ll be painting old Muhammad on the wall,
Now some claim that He’s angelic,
So we’ll paint Him psychedelic,
We sure hope He likes His pictures on the wall.
We’ll be etching old Muhammad on the wall,
We’ll be etching old Muhammad on the wall,
The time has come to make our stand
Or our rights they will get banned,
And we’ll find ourselves lined up against the wall.
(If you like this, please re-post it elsewhere on the Internet.)
Ryan:
Since you seem to be an apologist for Islam, just go to Mike Savages web site. Savage is a talk radio host. Watch the videos of Americans being beheaded, not with a single stroke of a sword but having their heads literally sawed off with a knife. If you watch these and fail to recognize the Islamic religeon for it’s barbarity I pity you. These people are animals and their fucked up religeon is an abomination.
Chuck
Ryan:
Since you seem to be an apologist for Islam, just go to Mike Savages web site. Savage is a talk radio host. Watch the videos of Americans being beheaded, not with a single stroke of a sword but having their heads literally sawed off with a knife. If you watch these and fail to recognize the Islamic religeon for it’s barbarity I pity you. These people are animals and their fucked up religeon is an abomination.
Chuck
ryan, I am going to try one more time, then I am going to give up on you as a hopeless idiot. We can only arrest people over here, like we did with Eric Roberts and Tim McVeigh. We can’t arrest people in other countries, that is considered an ACT OF FUCKING WAR! Maybe you haven’t noticed, but all these moderate, rational Muslem buddies of yours haven’t arrested Bin Laden, or any of his buddies. They only arrest women and kill them for getting raped. When is the last time you heard of a Muslem getting arrested in a predominately Muslem country for killing an infidel?
B Moe:
ryan, I am going to try one more time, then I am going to give up on you as a hopeless idiot. We can only arrest people over here, like we did with Eric Roberts and Tim McVeigh. We can’t arrest people in other countries, that is considered an ACT OF FUCKING WAR!
Okay, our military doesnt arrest people, they DETAIN them. So?
Maybe you haven’t noticed, but all these moderate, rational Muslem buddies of yours haven’t arrested Bin Laden, or any of his buddies. They only arrest women and kill them for getting raped.
Maybe you’re not getting the point: the people who are in charge over there arent moderates. The moderates are the people under them, getting fucked.
Charles:
Did you just cite Mike Savage as if he is a credible source of political news, as opposed to a sensationalist talk show host?
Savage is an idiot, and is nothing more than entertainment. That’s equivalent to a Liberal citing Michael Moore as a viable political source.
If you watch these and fail to recognize the Islamic religeon for it’s barbarity I pity you.
I do not fail to realize that the person is a murderer, and has committed an atrocious crime. I do not fail to realize that the person who does that should be caught and punished to the fullest extent. I also do not fail to realize, as you seem to, that Islam is just another religion, and that blaming all Muslims for what specific psychopaths do isnt the way to go.
Read what I wrote. I think that terrorists should be found and punished, all of them. I do not condone what they do; I think it’s horrible, vile, and atrocious. I hold the people who commit such acts completely responsible, and there isnt any getting around it.
The ONLY thing that I am trying to get you guys to understand is the fact that we cant go around blaming the entire Muslim world for what Bin Laden, Hamas, or Al Qaeda does. Innocent until proven guilty…ever heard of that idea?
For fuck’s sake I cant see why thats so impossible for some of you people to even CONSIDER.
A late reply. Of course, many Arab Moslems, in particular are intolerant of the Jewish faith..their’s is double standard and the moderate Arab Muslims probably live no doubt in fear, of retalitation from their radical brethren for speaking out. But the way forward is surely not a frontal assult..more something along the lines of a perperiod of benign neglect and a shaking of heads..Be careful about throwing out ‘the baby for the bathwater’.. I for one lived in a moderate Islam country of Senegal for sometime and felt considerably safer their because of their rigid proscriptions of thievry for one, than I would if I lived in a less religious country.
An even later reply! 😉
Glenn noted this at instapundit and followed it back to the source. Look at the 2 x 2 charts! It seems to explain a lot.
http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2006/02/shame-guilt-muslim-psyche-and-danish.html
Respect for other people’s delicate sensibilities is all well and good wherever they are and, within reasonable limits, whatever primitive nonsensical mass delusion they may choose to believe in. But making allowances for the kind of totally disporportionate reactions we are currently witnessing around the world to the ‘cartoons’ published in the Danish paper, as with the previous completely ‘over the top’ Islamic reaction to ‘The Satanic Verses’ and the similar if less overtly homicidal reactions of so-called ‘Christians’ to ‘Jerry Springer: The Opera’ or ‘The Life Of Brian’ before it, involves taking seriously, if only implicitly, the frankly scientifically ridiculous claims of the so-called ‘great’ religions, which, without a shred of genuine or replicable evidence in support of any of them, (with the possible exception of Buddhism) insist nevertheless on their various fantastic versions of reality being allowed to take precedence over the substantially increasingly contrary but repeatably DEMONSTRABLY VALID picture of the Universe, being gradually revealed to us by the (God-given?) reasoning minds of scientists and philosophers, throughout the long bloodthirsty history of the dressed up glorified talking chimpanzees who currently dominate this tiny insignificant planet.
How can any person aspiring to true intelligence, and possessed of an honestly enquiring mind, take any of these mythical so called ‘sacred’ messages and their historically dubious at best ‘messengers’ seriously, let alone elevate ‘respect’ for any or all of them to greater importance than respect for the real lives of any of the real suffering souls who have to tolerate this continuing outrageous tyranny of unreason? I’m absolutely with Richard Dawkins on this. Take away religion and good people will go on doing good and evil people will go on doing evil. But for good people to do evil requires religion. It really is the root of all evil in the World. Roll on the day when the human race finally grows up and leaves these childish fantasies in the only place they belong: history.
Show me the physics that support your various gods and prophets and I’ll take them seriously, but not a moment before, no matter how many bullying threats the obscenely illogical crusaders and jihadis make. How dare these ghastly hypocrites threaten the lives of real people in the name of their supposedly compassionate gods? Don’t they think their allegedly all powerful deities and their favoured ‘prophets’ can take care of themselves?