As a followup to my prior piece:
12 cans of Dinty Moore Beef Stew (540 calories/can): $23.88
10 gallons store-brand springwater: $5.50
5 cheap Dollar Store flashlights: $5.00
5 4-packs of batteries for flashlights: $5.00
Cheap AM/FM Radio from Dollar Store: $5.00
5 4-packs of batteries for radio from Dollar Store: $5.00
Manual can opener from Dollar Store: $1.00
All prices from Hannaford Markets and Family Dollar.
Total expenditure for survival kit: $50.38
Surviving disaster despite best advice of Kos, Atrios, and the rest: Priceless
Let me be clear. I not only encourage everyone to prepare for disasters, I have done so myself.
That does not absolve the government of its job.
I admit, I’m no expert on FEMA. I have been to their web site where I found a memo titled First Responders Urged Not To Respond To Hurricane Impact Areas Unless Dispatched By State, Local Authorities. http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470
Two P.S’s First, I’m flattered that so many of you were moved by my comments.
Kudos for promoting this open exchange of ideas. Some sites don’t allow for comments and that makes me very suspicious.
So, please, tell what FEMA IS supposed to do.
If you can afford tobacco, alcohol, soda-pop, illicit-drugs, candy, ice-cream etc you can afford to set aside a bit for water and emergency food.
Any recommended storage methods when you could face storms that could destroy your house or flood it? Kit that is inaccessible is useless.
Would burying a large waterproof box in the yard (assuming detached dwelling) work? How about a large floatable container with a very long lanyard in case of a flood?
I understand the best bet is not to be where the possibly predicted natural disaster will occur, but often and for many legitimate reasons one can’t evacuate in time.
The point I am making is that blaming the people in charge may or may not be productive right now. But blaming the victims is ALWAYS counterproductive, especially when it’s done by the people in charge.
GoMommyGo said: “I admit, I’m no expert on FEMA. I have been to their web site where I found a memo titled First Responders Urged Not To Respond To Hurricane Impact Areas Unless Dispatched By State, Local Authorities. http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470“
GoMommyGo, I’d like to point out that you made several comments earlier in this thread where you told us FEMA did not do its job- and now you admit you do not know what its job is.
Wouldn’t it have been better to find out _before_ you made the accusation?
Second point- the part you quote points out quite clearly that _state_ and _local_ officials are in charge- not FEMA. That would be people like Blanco, Nagin, and the local NOLA police force.
STate and Local Authorities are presumed to know best where help is needed most urgently and they are in charge for many reasons, and one of them is so that they can best allocate resources and triage the response- in this case the Red Cross is telling people that Blanco and state authorities (NOT FEMA, NOT BUSH) *told* them they could not go into NOLA. IN fact, they were prepped and ready with supplies for the relief of the Convention Center evacuees immediately after the storm and Blanco wouldn’t let them in because she didn’t want to encourage people to go there- it was one of two official shelters for those who could not evacuate, and she did not want to encourage people to go there by admitting help and assistance and sustenance. I think she should be tried for murder.
I am going to suggest that rather than take our word for what FEMA’s job is you continue to read their website, keeping in mind at all times that state and local authorities means *local* officials for the states and towns in which the disasters occur. STate and local authorities does not mean Federal agencies.
I am not sure what or who you mean when you imply that hte people in charge are blaming the victims- the people in charge are, as the link you share points out, state and local officials, and they are blaming Federal Government rather than taking responsibility for their own failures.
I would also point out that most people are not blaming the victims, but rather are encouraging each other and anybody else who will listen to *learn* from the past. Years ago the left could have gotten on board with FEMA’s recommendation to stock up on supplies for three days, but they chose to mock it, denigrate it, and display ignorance about the importance of some of the contents- I wonder how many more people would have been prepared if their political bedmates had been foresighted adn thoughtful enough to say, “You know, I still hate Republicans, but stocking up on three days worth of supplies isn’t a bad idea.” Instead, they chose to say “We hate Republicans and stocking up is stupid… or too hard… or too complicated… or not your responsibility…. or too expensive…”
Nobody is to blame for the hurricane. Local and state officials have much to answer for in their failure to follow their own plans and their blame of the Federal Government for their failure. And personal responsiblity is a good thing- it can keep you from finding yourself in the same situation another time. Refusing to acknowledge individual failures that contributed toward a horrible situation is not helpful or compassionate. That kind of patronization and paternalism is what is counterproductive. It’s more likely to produce more people who passively wait for what happens rather than plan for it.
You know, even Mayor Nagin told evacuees to bring three days worth of food and water to the evacuation centers because there would not be much there. Do you really want to insist that those who did not listen to him bear no responsiblity for the results of that decision? Encouraging people to rely on government to the point that they ignore what their own local officials tell them because they expect government to feed them even when it has said it will not is crippling.
Don’t forget toilet paper. My wife sure won’t…
and Nahinni, don’t you think celebrating my predicted death is a bit over the top? Put the compassion back, conservative American.
Ay… this is time consuming.
“GoMommyGo, I’d like to point out that you made several comments earlier in this thread where you told us FEMA did not do its job- and now you admit you do not know what its job is.
Wouldn’t it have been better to find out _before_ you made the accusation?
Second point- the part you quote points out quite clearly that _state_ and _local_ officials are in charge- not FEMA. That would be people like Blanco, Nagin, and the local NOLA police force.”
Yes, it would. And I have. According to their website:
http://www.fema.gov/about/
“FEMA Mission
DISASTER (This part of the mission seems to have been accomplished — irrestible snark). It strikes anytime, anywhere. It takes many forms — a hurricane, an earthquake, a tornado, a flood, a fire or a hazardous spill, an act of nature or an act of terrorism. It builds over days or weeks, or hits suddenly, without warning. Every year, millions of Americans face disaster, and its terrifying consequences.
On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). FEMA’s continuing mission within the new department is to lead the effort to prepare the nation for all hazards and effectively manage federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident…”
From the “What We Do” section:
…_prepare_ for emergencies and disasters, _respond_ to them when they occur, _help people and institutions recover_ from them, mitigate their effects, reduce the risk of loss, and prevent disasters such as fires from occurring.
FEMA’s MEMO said locals were in charge. Their web page says THEY have statutory authority.
Speaking of FEMA Memos. Here are a few more:
(http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/5/16455/30830)
The reports coming out of NO claim that FEMA has blocked aid over and over. They are the bureaucracy that has killed people. Don’t defend FEMA, even congressional Republicans aren’t that sycophantic.
I understood the author and many of the commenters to imply that if these Katrina victims had just had the whatever (brains, money, foresight, etc.) to make a survival kit, instead of sitting on their hands and waiting for Big Gov’t to rescue them, they wouldn’t be in this mess. I guess I got that idea from the comments on personal responsibility — which I am not arguing against. But I expect those who are paid to prepare to also take responsibility for their actions or inactions.
I don’t think people who were not there have the moral authority to tell people who were what they should have done.
I would suggest you store more water. Well informed sources (ok, survivalists, but at least they know this subject matter well) recommend 7 gallons of water per person per day. This seems alot, but it includes water for washing and other non-imbibing activities. Don’t forget that the human body can subsist for weeks without food, but only a few days without water.
If I lived below sea level in the bottom of a bowl, I’d own a kayak, canoe, boat, or at least a raft.
Subsequently rescuing those too lazy to walk to high ground is thwarting natural selection. Using helicopters to rescue them is ridiculous. LA is full of fishing boats!
GoMommyGo,
But I guess it’s OK for you to criticize everything FEMA has done, right? Because, of course, you were right there when the decisions were made to let everybody die.
“I don’t think people who were not there have the moral authority to tell people who were what they should have done.”
Well, the fact is that none of us were there — not me, not you.
GoMommyGo, if you’re still here, let me ask you this: Knowing what you know now, and having seen what we all have seen, would you have obeyed the order to evacuate, or would you have trusted the government to rescue your family?
Everyone should include two funnels (one large, one fairly small), which will save a lot of wasted liquid if transferring, and something that can be used for siphoning. (One of those little tubes and hand-squeeze pumps used for aquarium cleaning would be good enough.)
The correct name for duct tape is actually HP tape. As in High Pressure. In the military it comes in olive green.
In Naval Nuke plants it is used to seal low pressue (yep military naming conventions are stupid) lines up to 15 psi.
15 psi is the pressure you get under 30 feet of water.
GoMommyGo, if you are really reading FEMA’s information with objective eyes, how is it that you continue to miss the point that they are not, never have been, cannot be, are not supposed to be, the First Responders?
Look:
“On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). FEMA’s continuing mission within the new department is to lead the effort to prepare the nation for all hazards and effectively manage federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident…”
Manage federal response and recover efforts does not equal first responder- it means that when the federal government gets involved, it will be that branch of the government known as FEMA- not that it’s FEMA’s job to respond first or to prevent hurricanes or to operate in place of the state and local officials.
In LA politicians squandored, misused, and abused money given to them to build up the levees. They had money to spend on the Convention Center, on the Governor’s mansion, on a new Supreme Court building, on upgrading locks for increasing barge traffic (which was actually decreasing-)- in short, pretty much everything BUT protecting their OWN city. That is not FEMA’s fault. The people responsible here are the local politicians and those who elect them.
“From the “What We Do” section:
…_prepare_ for emergencies and disasters, _respond_ to them when they occur, _help people and institutions recover_ from them, mitigate their effects, reduce the risk of loss, and prevent disasters such as fires from occurring.”
Nothing here indicates they are first responders. That is still state and local officials- and when the state governor refuses to give control to the feds, as happened here, you cannot blame the results on the agency that was denied any authority or control.
“FEMA’s MEMO said locals were in charge. Their web page says THEY have statutory authority.”
Where? Nowhere does it say they are the First Responders. Nowhere. Pretty much everywhere they warn that they won’t be there for at least 72 hours. FEMA is a federal agency- it does not have and should not have a full response team in every single town and city in this nation.
“Speaking of FEMA Memos. Here are a few more:
(http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/5/16455/30830)
The reports coming out of NO claim that FEMA has blocked aid over and over. They are the bureaucracy that has killed people. Don’t defend FEMA, even congressional Republicans aren’t that sycophantic.”
Um- you just linked to the Kos kids and you expect to be taken seriously? Instead of linking to Kos kids how about a link to an actual, factual story? The reports I’m reading coming out of NO claim that state and local officials blocked aid over and over. You want to talk about bureaucracy that kills people? It’s the governor who wouldn’t let the Red Cross in to the Convention center because she didn’t want them comfortable enough to stay- even though she knew that those at the center were those who had no means of evacuating. Or read about the horrible story of St. Rita’s nursing home- an evacuation plan in place, buses offered, and the director of the home simply refused to evacuate. They are assuming she’s dead. They know that most of the residents are dead. They are still mopping up bodies in there- that’s not a FEMA problem- that’s local.
“I understood the author and many of the commenters to imply that if these Katrina victims had just had the whatever (brains, money, foresight, etc.) to make a survival kit, instead of sitting on their hands and waiting for Big Gov’t to rescue them, they wouldn’t be in this mess. I guess I got that idea from the comments on personal responsibility — which I am not arguing against. But I expect those who are paid to prepare to also take responsibility for their actions or inactions. “
I agree, but that’s the mayor and governor. You’ve given zero specific instances of FEMA failing in their proper responsiblities. You have assigned responsibilities to them that are not theirs.
Look- I am not fond of big government and I think we could do without FEMA altogether. It’s slow- that’s what behemoths are like. It’s bungling- also a trait of large governmental agencies. What they did not do was deliberately deny food and water to the convention center- that was the governor. People DIED in that center- babies dehydrated, while Red Cross buses, stocked adn supplied waited just a short distance away to go relieve them, but the governor refused to let them. What FEMA did not do was to refuse to bus people out because it might result in a liability- that was the mayor. It was the governor who refused to call up even half of the National Guard available to her. It was the governor who refused to let the Feds have any control and then tried to blame them for not doing what she would not allow them to do.
It was the Mayor and Governor who admitted a year ago that they needed a better evacuation plan. It was not FEMA whose officers turned in their badges, deserted their posts, and looted stores- that was the first responders, NOLA police.
Anything laid at FEMA’s door so far can be described as bureaucratic bungling- what the mayor and especially the governor have done is deliberately withold resources from people who needed them, deliberately refused to provide aid and succour to their own people, and refuse to follow their OWN evacuation plan.
FEMA cannot fix that. The Mayor told people coming to the convention center and the Dome that they should bring their own food and water because he wasn’t supplying much- that people did not listen to him because they thought, as I read one person said, “I’m sure somebody will provide” is not FEMA’s fault.
::I don’t think people who were not there have the moral authority to tell people who were what they should have done.::
As others have pointed out, if you really believed that, you wouldn’t be participating in this thread.
That statement doesn’t even make sense. I wasn’t in Germany during WW2, either, but I certainly have some moral authority to say what I think should have been done. I wasn’t in Mississippi during the period of lychings, church bombings, and denying blacks the right to vote, but I certainly have some moral authority to say that those actions were wrong.
My family was in a pretty disasterous car accident two years ago because a driver took his eyes off the road and allowed himself to be distracted- everybody in the world has the moral authority to tell us that was a mistake, and if he’d paid more attention, the accident wouldn’t have happened. It’s true, and what’s more, we’d be incredible fools if we expected somebody else to protect us from taking our eyes off the road, and we’d be fools if we did not learn from that experience and try to do better in the future.
The Welfare state makes fools of people, and in this case teh mindset it created resulted in thousands of deaths- and that cannot be put at FEMA’s door.
I thought the military called duct tape “100 MPH” tape? Is that stuff the same or is it a different variety of duct tape? Anyone know?
Naman,
Different war.
It was used as a temporary patch for bullet holes in aircraft.
Of course I could be wrong, my military specialty was Reactor Operation. As far as I’m willing to go is to say I’ve heard rumors of patch jobs. 🙂
The military still calls it 100MPH tape.
It is ususally OD green or an ugly brown color. Comes in a roll generally larger than duct tape and costs the Govt more of course. Problem with duct tape or any persuasion, is that it doesn’t stick real well if trying to apply it in severe cold, or if there is the slightest amount of moisture on the surface. Has a slight tendency to get tacky and slip if the tempatures get really hot (120 or better). However, once duct-tape is stuck and cures for a couple of hours it is there forever.
Not 100% sure how 100MPH got it’s name. Last I heard was Vietnam era because it was used to tape the leading edge of helicopter rotor blades to keep them from chipping and would stick until speeds in excess of 100MPH were reached.
Use for everything. Reinforces feet to avoid blisters better than anything else. Also if you are so dirty that 100MPH tape won’t stick to you, it is time to find a shower!!
All Dylan’s aside, the most difficult thing to do in a bad situation isn’t pulling a trigger on someone.
It’s denying a friend your supplies .
I’m still getting clicks through from this from time to time, and do you know how embarrassing it is to know that people are reading my statement, “The Welfare state makes fools of people, and in this case teh mindset it created resulted in thousands of deaths- and that cannot be put at FEMA’s door.”
Thousands, as we know, didn’t die. I should have known better than to believe the MSM.
well now that some time has passed and fingers are about to fall off from pointing….what have we learned from all this? i’m a “rita” victim. and talk about getting screwed by fema and the “gov”. most dont even realize we in texas even had a hurricane! wake up y’all, it could happen anywhere, at anytime. pay attention. stay alert. and always be “the boyscout” and be prepared!
in the military, things that are highly functional( or just plain cool) are called “high speed”.
Such as “That’s a high speed soldier!”
or “That is one high speed tank.”.
It obviously is not referring to the actual MPH of said soldier or tank. It can/does apply to,say, an action as well. After witnessing something cool you might hear “That was pretty high speed”.
High speed = 100 MPH.
Mystery solved.