Many have wondered what was the purpose of the “Who’s Who In America” sitting on the desk in yesterday’s Robert Novak walk-off incident on CNN’s Inside Politics.
Josh Marshall points out this tidbit from an a Chicago Sun-Times piece on the incident explains:
In a column that ran in the Sun-Times on Monday, Novak suggested he learned Plame’s identity partly from reading Who’s Who in America. A CNN source said a producer had placed a copy of Who’s Who on the set Thursday prior to the taping, apparently so it could be consulted while Novak was asked about the issue.
So what would they have found?
Here’s what’s inside the book siting on that desk…
“Copyright (c) 2002 by Reed Elsevier, Inc.”
Melvin Schuetz from Baylor’s Moody Library forwarded Joseph Wilson’s bio from the 2003 edition of Who’s Who in America [Volume 2 (L-Z)]. He notes:
- Wilson’s entry carries over about 5 lines to the next column, which is why it cuts off in mid-sentence at the end. The relevant text is “m. Valerie Elise Plame, Apr. 3, 1998,” which not only appears in the 2003 edition, but ALL editions from 1999-2005!
So, via Who’s Who, the name “Valerie Plame” has been associated publicly with Joe Wilson since the Clinton era – nice secret… ***
Coverage Elsewhere
Mickey Kaus
Tom Maguire
Josh Marshall
Jay Rosen
Update: For the commenters and blogs tracking back saying variation of, “Plame’s identity was never a secret,” (a point I address below at the ***) this post originally related back to what the book was doing on the table [See yesterday’s post on the Novak meltdown]. Was it supposed to scare Novak? Given the content of the book why would it? It says what he said it said…
Update 2: More on Novak and Plame later, but perhaps the raging debate in the comment section can dissect what effect, if any, Novak’s piece would have had if he used Valerie Wilson instead of Valerie Plame? Also do you think Novak, on hearing of the wife’s involvement got her name from Who’s Who and stuck with it OR found the Who’s Who reference to backup his source(s)?
*** Evidently one cannot even make a snarky remark about the Plame affair without having to explain oneself ad nauseum. OK here goes…
I’m over generalizing here, but it seem like there wasn’t an outing of an agent until two non-secret bits of information were combined.Joseph Wilson’s wife’s maiden name, most would now agree, was not a secret. That Wilson worked at the CIA was not widely known, but it was hardly a secret [See Cliff May at NRO and Just One Minute]. That Wilson’s wife was (or had been) a covert operative was only known to (if reports are to be believed) the Cuban government and perhaps those receiving information form Aldrich Ames, but it was still a secret. Novak puts two pieces of non-secret information together and gets this flashpoint.
But how did that combination “out” a covert agent? I turns out the the Valerie Plame name (remember, according to many commenters her name’s no big deal) was her cover. If her cover name was Valerie Jones how exactly would Novak’s column as it was written have “outed” her? It’s wouldn’t have. As former federal prosecutor Joesph DiGenoa contends it sure looks like the CIA didn’t exactly bust a nut to “take every conceivable step to protect this person’s identity.”
Hmmm.
“What are undercover agents supposed to do, you fucking morons? Live on a cot there?”
Internet. Several hundred million square miles of land on planet Earth.
hmmmm.
I know, how about NOT working at CIA headquarters and maybe working … and this is a stretch I admit … somewhere other than CIA headquarters?
We are after all talking about 1998 – 2005 right? What? The CIA doesn’t understand what a VPN, private secure network or the Internet is?
Well.
Actually now that I consider just how often the CIA has mucked things up. That actually might be the case after all.
In more news of the non-scandal scandal, which most real Americans agree is treason, Rove’s henchmen have now been deposed by the Grand Jury.
Time is running out for Traitor Rove and his treasonous conflation of CIA damage and politics.
Yeah, the media has continually cheered for the terrorists over the American soldiers. The Media has been a big enemy of America in the War on Terrorism.
This is a non-scandal, stoked by a bunch of hypocrites fresh off claiming Plame was outed in the mid 1990s.
This is a massive conspiracy against Our President, fueled by hatred.
Far be it from me to intrude, old boy, but this little discussion put me in mind of dilemma faced by my creator, Sir Ian Fleming, during his first, fevered attempts to write about my thrilling adventures. In spite of his eagerness to put his wish-fulfillment fantasies to paper, Sir Ian found himself face-to-face with a seemingly intractable conundrum. You see, he had already decided that he wanted the phonemic expression of my name to be associated in the readers mind with sophistication, danger, and raving heterosexuality. He thought he could achieve this end through neurolinguistic programming, that is, by means of subtle but powerful repetition of my name through the course of my adventures. Alas, every time Sir Ian instructed me to utter the words, “My name is Bond. James Bond,” Sir Ian was unable to proceed. My poor creator was beset by the overwhelming yet utterly irrational thought that, because I had revealed my name, I had also revealed my identity as a spy for Her Majesty’s Secret Service. Blind to the obvious truth that espionage requires a break in the link that normally occurs between ones name and ones identity, Sir Ian fell into a deep depression. He was convinced that every time I spoke my name, my “cover,” was, as we say in the fictional spy business, “blown.” Finally, after much anguish, Sir Ian sought therapeutic consultation with another of his characters, the intriguing Miss Pussy Galore. Not many know this, but Miss Pussy was, in addition to being a reformed crime vixen, a certified specialist in rational emotive therapy. This branch of therapy requires the patient to challenge irrational thoughts and specious logic with reason. Over time, Sir Ian finally realized that I could repeat my name endlessly–as long as none of my enemies (or friends, for that matter) knew about my connection to M16. Sir Ian’s breakthrough was what we had all been waiting for. Fortunately for me, and for legions of my fans, I was able to say, “My name is Bond. James Bond,” without compromising my fictional mission up until the day Sir Ian died. And, of course, my name will ever be associated with suave sophistication and derring-do. Rational Emotive Therapy, what will they think of next? And if it worked for Sir Ian, who knows, perhaps it might work for you, too.
POed Liberal:
Your comments read like an 8 year old wrote them, and you’re calling others stupid? Why don’t you take an English class or two and come back after your mom takes your training wheels off of your bike.
Hmmmm.
“I used to agree that the RepukeliKKKan party was not the same as being a fascist. That is no longer true.”
That looks fun. Let me try.
“Yeah! And another thing you ChristerFascistNaziHalliburtonChimpies! “
“Down with the BushHitlerHalliburtonPollutionOilMongers!”
“You damn RepubliStaziWarBastardHellPeddlers!”
Frankly I don’t see what’s so popular about those goofy insults. I suppose it’s amusing if your humor is along lines of fondling shit. But what the hell, if it amuses you, go for it. It’s not like it’ll actually impress anyone.
Sweet! We’re on the brink of ‘yo mama’ jokes!
Gee Kevin, I knew you were looking for ways to get the moonbat readership up, but did you have to make it so easy? Oh yeah a guess you did.
Far as I’m concerned, the real story here is how someone like Carville gets away with the personal attacks he does. He can’t debate a point so he calls his adversary spineless and laughs. I don’t blame Novak one bit for standing up and walking out, I’m surprised he didn’t cold cock him. CNN proves bias through the moderators handling of this sorry excuse for a debate.
VPN, private secure network
Geezus, a semiliterate repukelican moron.
Hey moron, when were VPNs invented? 2000, mebbe? Actually, they were invented in 2000, but have not really been functional until about 2002 or so.
And, bozo, you will recall (or probably you won’t being a conservadopo) that the feds are just fucking incompetent computer types. The FBI just spent 170 mill inventing a case-control system which …. didn’t work.
So, another totally stupid suggestion from a conservamoron. SIGH!! You can’t get blood from a turnip, I recall, and you can’t expect a conservaturd to actually think.
Did I miss the part of that entry where it mentioned Mrs. Wilson’s employer, cover or otherwise?
No, I did not.
Try again, brownshirts…
Dave, repeat after me
Given the established public nature of her maiden name documented above, the day Wilson’s editorial appeared in the NYT Valerie Plame went from being the wife of Joseph Wilson, former ambassador, retired, to the wife of Joseph Wilson, CIA contractor that investigates WMD and can not keep his mouth shut.
Where in the article does it mention that she is CIA?
Conservaturds can’t read, clearly.
OK, let’s get to the facts. I have yet to see anyone on this or any other board post anything about Valerie Plame’s work that didn’t seem to be totally informed by spy movies. Do you really think every covert agent is running a dry cleaners with a secret door in the back? Covert agents can be associated with the powers that be in their country. They can even be married to an ambassador. As so many posters have pointed out, people knowing that Wilson was married to Plame was never the issue.The one CIA guy who gets widely quoted as her “former boss,” who says she wasn’t covert, retired from the Agency in the early 90s. I wouldn’t say he’s exactly dealing with up to date information.
And by the way, Novak never said he got her name from Who’s Who. He said later, in his ass-covering phase, that her name could be gotten from Who’s Who. What he actually said was “they gave me her name and I used it.”
Also, I’m waiting to see one link to an authoratative source quoting Wilson as saying Cheney sent him to Niger. He has very specifically stated that he never thought Chaney even knew he went.
And he did not report that the Iraqis met with the Niger government about purchasing uranium. The former Prime Minister of Niger told him the Iraqis contacted Niger to talk about trade, which he assumed meant uranium. When they actually met, the Iraqis never brought it up. Funny how they forgot the very purpose of their meeting. And the US ambassador to Niger agreed with his report, BTW.
And to repeat what has been said here earlier, despite the fact that Republican apologists keep saying “everyone knew” she worked for the CIA, please find one post where a friend or neighbor supports that.
Oh, but I forgot; their friends and neighbors, the Ambassador to Niger, all liars. What an easy way to dismiss inconvenient facts.
I enjoy cruising around the blogs as much as anyone, but when you rely on them as your only source of info you’re susceptible to a lot of bullshit. Just because something appears on a bunch of right wing blogs doesn’t make it fact. Try checking primary sources once in a while.
The most frustrating part is that we keep talking about this stuff, which is exactly what the Republicans want. It doesn’t matter if Wilson’s the biggest liar in the world. The issue is whether Rove ands/or others in the White House used Valerie Plame’s status to try and smear Wilson. Maybe disclosing her covert status was a byproduct, maybe they didn’t realize she was covert, maybe they wouldn’t have done it if they knew the consequences. That’s for Fitzgerald and possibly the courts to figure out. But focusing on whether Wilson made claims he couldn’t support, or exaggerated his role, is a classic defensive red herring. It’s kind of like having a bunch of witnesses, and a motive, and DNA evidence, and opportunity, but convincing a jury that a murderer is innocent because a glove didn’t fit. It’s called taking your eye off the ball.
It’s not about Plame, …or Wilson, …or yellowcake!
Please go back and read Wilson’s original Op-Ed and
Novakula’s traitorous article. The Deserter-In-Chief
freaked-out and sent KKKarl to destroy the Wilsons
in a desperate attempt to conceal the FACT that the CIA
sent someone (it doesn’t matter who!) to Niger–in
direct response to a REQUEST FROM CHENEY’S OFFICE.
All of the White House denials focus on WHO caused
the CIA to go snooping around in Africa–and NOT
about the results of the snooping. (The yellowcake
story had already been exposed as a fraud by the
time Wilson went public.)
So, why is this important? …because, the MAIN
POINT of Wilson’s Op-Ed was that Cheney’s office
asked the question, and thus, the answer MUST
HAVE BEEN reported to Cheney’s office by the CIA —
no later than mid-March 2002.
Wilson’s Op-Ed revealed that Cheney (and the rest
of the criminal administration) KNEW FULL-WELL that
the “nookluler threat” BU__SH__! was a lie BEFORE
they started pitching it to the American people.
So, why “out” Valerie? …because they needed to pin
the CIA snooping on someone OTHER THAN CHENEY.
…may they all rot in hell,
CBG
“An awkward, unscientific lie is often as ineffectual as the truth.”
–Mark Twain
Somebody ought to notify Malkin about this thread.
It would make a great case study for her new book.
Hmmm.
@ POed Liberal
1. “Geezus, a semiliterate repukelican moron.”
It Speaks! Astonishing really.
2. “Hey moron, when were VPNs invented? 2000, mebbe? Actually, they were invented in 2000, but have not really been functional until about 2002 or so.”
Actually they were invented around 1999. Prior to that you had dedicated lines, which is why I included them. Can you read or do you just fake it?
3. “And, bozo, you will recall (or probably you won’t being a conservadopo) that the feds are just fucking incompetent computer types. The FBI just spent 170 mill inventing a case-control system which …. didn’t work.”
That’s because the FBI isn’t in the business of computer systems. The intelligence agencies have been for the past 50+ years. The biggest supercomputers in the world are owned and operated by the American intelligence agencies.
You, and I say this politely, schmuck.
4. “So, another totally stupid suggestion from a conservamoron. SIGH!! You can’t get blood from a turnip, I recall, and you can’t expect a conservaturd to actually think.””
Actually you can get blood from a turnip, if you put it there first. But that’s logic, and thus for you, forbidden.
Ahh the wonderfully erratic writings of the verbosely goofy. Amusing only to themselves, and witty in only their minds as well. A characteristic found only in other similar beings, such as the illustrative dung beetle.
Like most liberals, but most especially “POed Liberal”, who doesn’t seem to understand the apostrophe, the dung beetle spends it’s day rolling in a big ball of shit.
Run dung “POed Liberal” beetle, run. The future for you is so bright and beautiful with worlds full of shit ahead of you.
It almost makes me weep with joy.
It doesn’t matter if Wilson’s the biggest liar in the world. The issue is whether Rove ands/or others in the White House used Valerie Plame’s status to try and smear Wilson. Maybe disclosing her covert status was a byproduct, maybe they didn’t realize she was covert, maybe they wouldn’t have done it if they knew the consequences.
I thought this was all about the fact that she was covert (or not?). What’s wrong with smearing Wilson, that is, if Wilson deserves to be smeared? It’s not illegal for Rove or Bush to not trust Wilson.
What’s really interesting about the who’s who entry is the list of Wilson’s experience as a diplomat in both central Africa and Iraq.Con the right wing narrative it makes it sound like he was maybe actually qualified for a fact finding mission re: Iraqi shopping for uranium in Africa…
The most frustrating part is that we keep talking about this stuff, which is exactly what the Republicans want. It doesn’t matter if Wilson’s the biggest liar in the world. The issue is whether Rove ands/or others in the White House used Valerie Plame’s status to try and smear Wilson. Maybe disclosing her covert status was a byproduct, maybe they didn’t realize she was covert, maybe they wouldn’t have done it if they knew the consequences. That’s for Fitzgerald and possibly the courts to figure out. But focusing on whether Wilson made claims he couldn’t support, or exaggerated his role, is a classic defensive red herring. It’s kind of like having a bunch of witnesses, and a motive, and DNA evidence, and opportunity, but convincing a jury that a murderer is innocent because a glove didn’t fit. It’s called taking your eye off the ball.
This is the Conservaturd Distraction Ploy.
Just keep reciting “Rove is a traitor. Why do repukes support traitors who informed other traitors about the identity of CIA operatives?”
Just don’t take the bait. Rove is a SELF-CONFESSED traitor, and that is the only important fact in this whole sordid conflation of treason and politics that is the modern Repukelican party.
[banging my head against the wall]
How many times do you guys have to be told this:
Valerie Plame’s name wasn’t a secret.
The fact that Valerie Plame was married to Joe Wilson wasn’t a secret.
The fact that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA WAS a secret.
This whole thing is a waste of time. The law requires her to have been an undercover agent working overseas within 5 years of the disclosure. Her husband has admitted that definition does not apply to hear. No crime was committed under that statute. Should any administration out covert CIA employees for any reason, whether their husband is a liar or not? No. But under the terms of the statute, no crime was committed, based upon Mr. Wilson’s own statements.
Can someone please explain to me how the –
– Senate Intelligence Select Committee
– CIA
– British Government (per the Butler Report)
can ALL say that Wilson’s report SUPPORTED their assessment about Iraq trying to get African Uranium, and Joe Wilson is not a LIAR for pushing the opposite impression to the world media? As ususal, the partisan media got ahead of the facts and left many people (who became emotionally invested) in a lurch. I imagine it sucks being on the wrong side of history.
If I had a weak Lefty conspiratorial mind, I would almost have to think that Joe Wilson was a double agent working for the Saudis.
Hmmm.
“What’s really interesting about the who’s who entry is the list of Wilson’s experience as a diplomat in both central Africa and Iraq.Con the right wing narrative it makes it sound like he was maybe actually qualified for a fact finding mission re: Iraqi shopping for uranium in Africa…”
Actually you need to read the SCCI report on this. It turns out that three groups met over Wilson’s proposed trip to Niger. INR, WINPAC and, Plame’s, CPD.
INR thought it was a complete waste of time
WINPAC thought Wilson didn’t have any skills, background or credibility to do the job.
CPD thought, what the hell we don’t have any other ideas, so they sent Wilson anyways.
Frankly I’ve always suspected most of what the CIA does is based on “what the hell, nobody has a better idea” but this is the first official proof I’ve ever read.
Let me get this straight. We have a supper secret covert agent masquerading as an Ambassador’s wife. Works for me!
“Hey Abdul who was that lady you were having lunch with yesterday who was asking all the questions about our nuclear weapons program?
Oh that was the American Ambassador’s wife.
Whew. I thought she might be a CIA agent. Good to know she’s someone we know we can trust not to share our secrets with the Americans.”
GSpot1:
That Plame worked for the CIA might have been a secret, but Wilson irrevocably associated her name with the CIA.
Again, repeat after me:
Given the established public nature of her maiden name documented above, the day Wilson’s editorial appeared in the NYT Valerie Plame went from being the wife of Joseph Wilson, former ambassador, retired, to the wife of Joseph Wilson, CIA contractor that goes on WMD hunts and can not keep his mouth shut.
Nowhere in the entry does it state: Valerie Elise Plame, Apr. 3, 1998. Covert Central Intelligence Agency Agent.
The thing about being a CIA employee is to NOT TELL anyone you’re CIA. You yourself, doesn’t disappear.
Jackass!
Valerie Plame worked for the CIA. She was not a covert operative. If she was, she shouldn’t have contributed money to the DNC and Al Gore’s Campaign using her real name and the name of the CIA division where she worked. It’s public record. Look it up.
Only smoke, here. No fire.
Hmmm.
You know goofing with “POed Liberal” is amusing and all, but this whole thing is a complete waste of time.
All this stuff will come out in due time, and THEN we can all beat each other up over this nonsense.
Until then this is just the rhetorical version of masturbation.
And ultimately just as futile, but hey, go ahead.
Just wash your hands afterwards ok?
bye all, time for dinner.
I’ll repeat what many of the more “intelligent” individuals have written here. It was NO SECRET that Joe Wilson’s wife was Valerie Plame. Never the issue.
The ISSUE is that Novak revealed her identity as a CIA operative. Her “identity”. IDENTITY. Get it? Not her name, her IDENTITY. This book reveals her name, not her identity as a CIA NOC. Novak did that for us, with help from a very vengeful treasonous bastard. If you can’t understand that, you are either insanely biased or incredibly stupid. Or both. Probably both.
Here’s one absolute fact:
If it had been the Clinton Administration who outed a CIA asset, the wingnuts would be screaming treason for time immemorial.
You know it’s true.
But instead they spin as if it’s no big deal.
Adiabat,
Do you have a link to that information?
The ISSUE is that Novak revealed her identity as a CIA operative. Her “identity”. IDENTITY. Get it? Not her name, her IDENTITY. This book reveals her name, not her identity as a CIA NOC. Novak did that for us, with help from a very vengeful treasonous bastard. If you can’t understand that, you are either insanely biased or incredibly stupid. Or both. Probably both.
If you can’t understand that, you are a repuke moron. The modern repukelikan party is full of really stupid people, because you need to be stupid to believe the fundamental tenets of Modern Repukelicanism.
It’s not that they haven’t tried to understand. It’s just that they are unable, due to the genes they carry, to understand it.
Yeah, johno, and you’d be spinnin’.
Heres a crazy thing to consider. Maybe Valerie Plame didn’t USE her real name when she was doing the whole “undercover agent” thing. Kind of defeats the whole idea that her maiden name being associated with Wilson “outs” her in some way.
The Clinton admin leaked classified info about Linda Tripp when it served their purposes, and I don’t recall a bunch of liberals screaming in horror. Yes, I know the leaking of a CIA agent’s name (if that was done, not proven yet) is a much bigger deal, but I think it can be said fairly clearly that the Dems are recent converts to the belief in the sacredness of confidential information. And I am a republican and all the republicans I know feel the same way – if anyone in the administration broke a law, they should be sacked. If they leaked truly confidential information, no matter what that information is to punish a political opponent, that person should be sacked. I felt the same way during the Clinton admin. Dems, did you?
Not only did Novak blow Plame’s cover, but in the process he ALSO blew the fact that the company she worked for was a CIA front company, potentially endangering the lives of everyone involved there, even if she herself was no longer out in the front lines spying wrt WMDs. Rove’s treason has enormous repercussions to our national security and hanging is far too good for him and the rest of this treasonous bunch.
If someone in the Clinton administration had pulled this kind of treason, you moonbats would be screaming for heads to roll. But because it’s one of your own, the Rove must be protected. It’s disgusting.
Driving to her desk job at Langley every day in her convertible. Yeah – some secret.
Riddle me this:
Q: If an offense was not committed — during the outing of Plame as covert agent — why would the CIA ask the DoJ to get involved and launch an investigation?
A: ???
Q: Why — having completed the first “discovery” and initial investigatory phases of the investigation — would Fitzgerald continue with the investigation if he felt he did not have the evidence? As an experienced and dogged investigator/prosecutior, he knew that this trial (should it ever come to that) would be under an enormous amount of scrutiny. No investigator would try to pull off a case like this one without ample, non-circumstantial evidence.
A?
What I saw Novak quoted as saying was that he found out from publicly available information, I haven’t seen a quote from him that specifically refers to the Who’s Who publication. If you can find this I would be interested in seeing it and I would also want to see that he meant it literally, and wasn’t saying it dismissively or sarcastically.
If Plame wanted to remain covert why was Wilson being a blabbermouth and a figurehead? Wilson was going to the press with information she gave him and he expects the press not to want to know how he got it?
It has been rumored on at least one site that Novak himself is CIA.
At any rate it is hard to picture Novak looking through a Who’s Who book to see who is or isn’t a CIA agent, so that he as a “journalist” can come up with a story to write. Believe he must have better sources than the Who’s Who book.
aaargh,
Did you have the same outrage when the New York Times had a front page article about the covert CIA Airline? Wild guess on my part, but I guess “NO”
Just remember folks that it is important to continue to recite, at every possible opportunity, that
1) Rove told Novak that Plame was CIA
2) Rove has admitted that
3) revealing a CIA op is treason.
This is the plain fact, and as Karl Rove himself will attest, repeating these facts frequently, unalterably and with great insistence will cement these facts in the public conscience.
Rove, although a traitor, is a good operative. We must use his methods.
“I don’t see why every wingnut takes it on face value that she was a “desk jockey.” SHE WAS A NOC, PEOPLE!”
Posted by: Michael Scott at August 5, 2005 03:36 PM
No covert agent walks through the front door of Langley everyday. That’s why we doubt the status.
The other reason is that the CIA does not just ask you not to print an article outing covert agents, they call your boss and everyone else with authority at your organisation and ask the same thing. They didn’t do it here. That also helped lead Novak to think she was not covert.
As to lies, people keep mentioning it but are failing (so far as I’ve read) to mention the biggie. Joe Wilson kept claiming that Bush lied since the ‘Niger letters’ were fakes… The guy assumed Bush based his speech on those and several investigations have shown he did not (not only that, but that the intelegence he did base it on was sound). So far that is not a lie on Wilson’s part, but his refusal to clear the air and admit his accusation was flawed is a lie (half of you seem to not know any of this which just proves there is a problem)… just as every newspaper article on this that fails to make that clear is misleading if not a lie.
aargh –
Did you have the same outrage when the NYTimes flogged Abu Graib for 2 months on their front pages? If Muslims are going to kill each other over a fake Koran desecration story, you don’t have to be a ME scholar to figure out showing America’s dirty laundry is going to jeapordize our troops in the field.
Also – did you have the same outrage when Dick Durbin likened our forces to Nazis and Gulag operators on the floor of the Senate?
I think some of you are confusing Novak’s term “CIA operative” with “covert agent.” He said later he never meant operative to be anything more than, well, a “player” in the CIA (or something like that). Other than that, assuming she was covert, no one outed her until David Corn published his piece about the thing.
And for a covert agent to get in her car every day and drive to HQ makes the CIA look worse than CONTROL.
Actually the points about Wilson lieing are as follows
1. He lied about how he got the mission (denied that he got it through his wife)
Since the CIA claim she had nothing to do with it then how is this proof of a lie? All it does is suggest that if Wilson is lying, then so is the CIA in order to protect him, but why would they do that if he was making their lives harder? Per the statement below, the CIA admits that Cheney was putting intense pressure on them to come up with something even though there was nothing to come up with. That they might have suggested to Wilson in passing, since he was the husband of a company member, that “The VP has been riding our asses on this thing…” could have given Wilson the idea that they were doing this as a result of the VP’s constant demands for intel. But Wilson’s original statement was that he felt Cheney was behind it which to him seemed logical. He only now makes the direct claim Cheney was behind it because he was being slimed by the WH as a result of it all. This makes the scenario I presented seem more logical.
2. He lied about Niger not being approached to sell the ore to Iraq (his own report said they did)
Our current embassador to Niger stated in the public hearings on the subject that they have no evidence to support any claims to this. They say they only have accusations bordering on hearsay and rumor. The fake Yellowcake memo has been traced back to Italy where the trail goes cold at that point. But because they cannot absolutely deny that there might have been such a meeting Wilson simply chose to take one position rather than the other based on his own understanding of the issue, which is that Niger was eager to get in on the United State’s good graces and earn better trade relations at the time. If Iraq had come calling them they’d have told us.
3. He lied about the report itself (source – the congressional report)
What lie? It was his report? Why would he lie about a report he himself created and was under orders to make? What was the lie? When a person goes and carries out an open-aired investigation under orders from the government then that person has to file a report? What’s there to lie about?
4. Lied about his wife’s covert status (the neighbors all knew who his wife was employed by).
There have been plenty of news stories where his neighbors were interviewed and claimed they were shocked to hear about all of this. The notion that ‘the neighbors all knew…’ is just conjecture and B.S. so if you can prove this please do. When and where did he lie? Did it ever occur to you that there are in fact laws on the books even now that prevent CIA operatives from revealing the extent of their jobs to their own spouses???? He might not have known everything about what she did. Duh!
5. Lied about the report being sent to the Vice President’s office (Mr. Cheney never knew of such a report)
How do you know whether Cheney did or didn’t get it? Here the CIA has a report and you don’t think they wouldn’t have someone at the WH, Cheney included, not see it? There were newspaper articles before the war and during this time where, under condition of anonymity, high ranking people at the CIA stated that Cheney was making routine and daily trips to CIA HQ putting pressure on them to provide evidence if Iraq’s WMD and terrorist ties. Not an uncommon thing to do if you ask me and nothing strange about it per say.
Cheney and Bush were desperate to find proof about the WMD and terror ties. And to think that Cheney wouldn’t have is a deliberate refusal to consider all options simply so that you can discredit someone who has been proven right about everything so far. No WMD, no ties to terror. NADA!
It’s more likely that Cheney lied than Wilson on the subject.
6. Lied about the truth of the 16 words (The British still maintain that their sources show the claim was true).
What lie did he make? So far the war has proven him and so many other people right about everything and this administration 100% wrong on everything.
The British are not making such a claim. Current members of the British government(who happen to be anti-war) all stated that their intelligence groups do not want to appear incompetent so they stick to stories that it might be true, not that it is true.
Even Tony Blair said the claims cannot be substantiated. Besides, followups on this statement suggest that British intelligence always investigate every lead in such areas, even if the leads are obviously bad or deceptive. They passed the lead on so that their CIA counterparts could put their own resources into confirming it but in both cases they could not. What the British are saying now is that they cannot confirm the intelligence of the claim but cannot deny it’s possible truth because their job is not to take such risks even if it’s obviously the whole thing was a scam. The stakes are too high in this game to ignore anything.
The issue here is that Bush and the rest of this administration were looking for any excuse to invade Iraq. They’ve wanted this since 1998 and sooner. PNAC documents from members of this admin and it’s closest supporters support this. That Wesley Clark stated after 9/11 that he was told to make the claim that Iraq was involved during TV interviews proves this point. They were so eager to go in that they were unprepared when the opportunity did arrive so they had to start making shit up. Egyptian and Saudi intel groups claimed that Saddam was worried after the first gulf war that his weakened military status might encourage Iran to restart the war against them. The intel groups all stated that Saddam loved to brag about shit that he didn’t havem including going so far as to brag about WMDs and WMD programs he didn’t have so that it might give Iran pause in attacking. That this same chatter was picked up and assumed to be true rather than that of an evil blowhard trying to keep rumors of his military impotence quiet is not illogical.
“Is that enough for everyone? There is more as can be seen at many places on the net.
Yeah. All of them republican supporter run sites. I suggest you follow up on their claims and see where they got the info. It could turn out that it’s all being circulated by the same people around and around with no legitimate source that can be substantiated.
Nor should you take anything I say as absolute fact. You should look it all up and follow from one source to another and see where it ends up cause right now the facts support *MY* claims more than they do yours.
But go ahead and think what you want. In this country you’re free to be deluded by fascist rhetoric.
MYOB’
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From http://www.factcheck.org/article337.html
July 14, 2003 – Robert Novak’s ” Mission to Niger” column is published. This is the first published mention of Joseph Wilson’s wife’s name, her employment at the CIA, and her role in his trip to Niger. In the sixth of ten paragraphs, Novak writes, “Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson ‘s wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him.” The column does not describe her as a covert agent, then, but it does name her as “Valerie Plame” – her maiden and cover name. Novak gives conflicting accounts of whether Mrs. Wilson instigated her husband’s trip or was asked by others to do so. (Novak, ” The Mission to Niger, ” Chicago Sun-Times, July 2003).
If Valerie Plame was her maiden AND cover name, then the fact that it was published in the Who’s Who is entirely relevant.
Vlad D. Inhaler wrote, “As, by the way, is the fact that someone also gave Novak the name of the cover company she worked for, thereby endangering every other operative using that cover.”
That’s a fair point. By the same principle, the recent NYT story on the CIA’s use of private contractors for covert air services, specifically naming the companies and some of the employees, also endangers every person working in those companies (whether on the covert side or the legit side of the company).
Right?
Did you have the same outrage when the NYTimes flogged Abu Graib for 2 months on their front pages? If Muslims are going to kill each other over a fake Koran desecration story, you don’t have to be a ME scholar to figure out showing America’s dirty laundry is going to jeapordize our troops in the field.
Did you have the same outrage when you found out that in addition to the abuse and torture of MEN at Abu Ghraib, that women and children were also sexually abused at Abu Ghraib? Did you have the same level of outrage when you found out that King Turdeater, our president, is concealing the pictures documenting that sexual abuse?
Prior to the Bush Admin, no US adminstration had ever previously engaged in torture. But now that the Bush Admin has engaged in torture, aren’t you ashamed of your repukeliking president?
Wow. Kevin, did you get linked at the DU or something?
“No covert agent walks through the front door of Langley everyday.”
The Director of Operations as well as a hundred or so others do. Look him up, you won’t find a name.