I’ll be on Washington Journal (C-SPAN) Saturday June 4 at 7:45AM EDT discussing the Downing Street Memo along with Democratic activist Steve Cobble of AfterDowningStreet.org. It’s a live call in show…
Update: When the online version of the show is available we’ll have a link to it.
Update 2: Mark Williams at Dem Bloggers has the segment video.
Kerry might reassume his Sixties “revolution” costume and call-to-arms if he calls in, so exercise caution.
You also might receive a higher than usual number of calls from people who say, “man” a lot. As in, “Man, this memo, I mean, MAN, this is big, man!”
Uh, don’t you mean Democrat activist, not democratic? I see very little coming from the democrats that seems democratic to me lately….
Well, Bush clearly deceived the American public concerning the reasons for war in Iraq and conservatives should be irate. The Downing Street memo is strong evidence to this effect.
Prior to the invasion Bush claimed that he was doing everything possible to avoid conflict. This was a lie. We know it from the memo, from Paul O’Neil, from Richard Clark, from the fact that the US increased the bombing of Iraq prior to the war, and from the Project for a New American Century that called for Saddam’s removal and was signed by Cheney, Rumsfeld,et al.
Michael L.: I’m curious, did you think you arrived here at Wizbang by dialing a phone?
Because, obviously, you’re a tad confused about forums and destinations…C-SPAN is on t.e.l.e.v.i.s.i.o.n…t.o.m.o.r.r.o.w…along with Kevin. You can direct everyone to “face reality” then and there, although don’t be surprised if a lot of us enjoy a good laugh.
I’m not diminishing the importance of the war in Iraq, the conditions as to why the U.S. led a coalition of nations to engage in that, but, that there is some arch-conspiracy of ooginess as the Left just always seems to need to find about nearly all actions that are led by the United States, particularly if/when the U.S. military is involved…no one can ever communicate any sense otherwise to the Left. So it’s rather redundant to read that everyone ELSE is being chastised to “face reality.”
Are you glad that Saddam Hussein is in custody? That his “oil for food” fraud and mass murders are concluded (as much as has been confronted, at least)? Are you eager to see Osama Bin Laden brought to justice?
Sometimes military force is necessary to bring about an end to massively offending events. No one found it funny or enjoyable that the U.S. dropped atomic bombs on Japan to bring about the end of WWII, no one liked the Invasion of Normandy, but we did it. Because it was necessary, because we had to.
Heard of the Office of Special Plans? An outfit set up by Rumsfeld and Feith to make sure the intelligence fit the policy–WAR.
The Bush administration has so far blamed the lack of WMD’s on “faulty intelligence.” Is that why George Tenet…aka Mr. Faulty Intelligence himself…got the Presidential Medal of Freedom?
People like Rumsfeld helped arm Hussein with WMD’s. People like Cheney did business with Hussein when the sanctions were in place.
This is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. It’s not a republican vs. democrat issue. It has everything to do with whether the president played political games with the lives of American soldiers.
The Memo alleges Bush committed treason. I hope Mr. Aylward has fun defending that.
“People like Rumsfeld helped arm Hussein with WMD’s.”
So Iraq had WMDs in your view? Or not? Decide, already.
And Iraq’s weapons were Soviet/Russian, Frecnh, Chinese, and German, for the most part. We sent the Iranians weapons, remember? Iran-Contra? It was a big deal way back when. Basically, we gave Iran anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles in the 1980s. Suddenly Iraqi planes were falling from the sky and their tanks were getting blown up. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of guys.
Mike: you confuse the concepts (and actions) of “defense” with “speaking reason to nonsense.”
Again and again, the Left continues to wander down the path of nonsense…you look for reasons why when you should look for commitment to.
There’s nothing here that the Left even comprehends other than their own egotistical need to discredit everyone else.
I’m imagining that a person like Jimmy Carter in the President, welcoming Fidel Castro and grovelling before North Korea, or Clinton striking bargains with the Chinese, among other things, while removing funding from the American military by any means he could, would satisfy a Left that wants oblivion as long as it’s got their name on it.
I don’t perceive much of anything that Kevin has to ‘defend’ on C-SPAN.
The American people by a majority continue to support President Bush in his decision and commitment to war in Iraq and efforts to stabilize the Middle East, as do governments worldwide. Let’s see…France’s Chirac has been exposed to be involved with Saddam’s scheme, revellious acerbics in the U.K. also, Kerry to be a nitwit and Dean to be a money loser with nothing to offer but profanities about human beings and mostly Americans…I don’t think the Left has much to go on at this point other than to continue to make threats and allegations with nothing of a plan otherwise.
Kerry To Raise Downing Street Memo on Senate Floor –
Conservative Spin on Kerry Statement –
The Secret Downing Street Memo story won’t catch fire and won’t go away either. I think the thing’s a tempest in a teapot because some Democrats don’t realize British speak english differently from us. I did a long posting on it at my blog, XDA, http://rfraley301.blogspot.com. Check it out, if you have the time.
Bush refused to let the UN weapons inspectors finish their job. Why? Because he WANTED a war. He LOVES wars when OTHER PEOPLE do the fighting. Why the urgency? A lot of lives were on the line. Why was Bush rushing things? Oh yeah, aerial drones. I forgot.
I read your blog Roger. The Memo isn’t something out of the blue. There was a LOT of circumstantial evidence that suggested Bush was full of shit regarding the WMD intelligence. Maybe semantic contortions help you deny the truth. I don’t know.
talk about semantic contortions, you sure are going thru enough to be a pretzel.
FYI, you can drop the Drama Queen act! Because he WANTED a war. He LOVES wars when OTHER PEOPLE do the fighting. Even Rob Reiner acts better than that! LOL
C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.
Here’s another nice tidbit from the memo:
It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.
What part of the word ‘truth’ don’t those on the far right understand?
You did a great job on C-SPAN for not reaching over and chocking Mr. Leftist blue.
As far as a Television Personality, you are an excellent Blogger! 🙂
In February 2003, Powell said: “We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more.”
But two years earlier, Powell said just the opposite. The occasion was a press conference on 24 February 2001 during Powell’s visit to Cairo, Egypt. Answering a question about the US-led sanctions against Iraq, the Secretary of State said:
We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions — the fact that the sanctions exist — not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein’s ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq…
Since 59 Million people voted for ‘W’ and are also in support of the war why don’t they join the military or at least have their sons and daughters sign up. That way the military would fulfill their quota’s and and along with sending their children off to die and/or be wounded,losing limbs etc. the right can also send ‘The Factor’ (O’reilly), Hannite, the ‘Rush’ boy (as soon as he kick’s his drug habit)and the like.
Comments on Cspan appearance.
Kevin A was stuttering and stammering, trying to maintain that some “parsing” of the word “fixed” was the issue. Seems that what he really meant is that the Bush administration is parsing the word “fixed” to mean something other than what it can possibly mean in the context it is used, which are two alternatives, “fixed” meaning changed, created, or manufactured, which would be the worst case, and “fixed” meaning “set around” or, “taking selective pieces of intel and fixing them or arranging them to support the proposed scenario,” (the Bolton effect) which is probably more what happened, and more accurately describes the use of the word in the memo.
Given the statement by Tenet, to the effect that the “WMD in Iraq” (rationale for war) was a “slam dunk”, which really meant that “using that reasoning will make it easy to get the American people to support your war” NOT… that “Saddam has WMD for sure,” as it has been spun… this memo is indeed a smoking gun, a clear evidence that the neo cons blatantly lied to get support for the war.
Kevin quoted from the SOTU speech of 2002, trying to maintain that Bush told the people the reason for war was this lame “democracy” excuse, but that is blatantly false, and weak. Countless lies were told on the floor of the House and Senate about intelligence that proved Saddam HAD WMD at the PRESENT.. and that Chicago, NY, Or LA could end up looking “like Hiroshima or Nagasaki,” (duke cunningham, member of Select Committee on Intelligence, Oct 9, 2002, debate on ATUMFII Act of 2002) that Saddam was providing WMD to terrorists, and in the speech Bush gave announcing the start of the War he said, “Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly ” a lie.. and…”The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities. ” again repeating the rational that Saddam was threatening to give WMD to terrorists.
Bush should be impeached. However the lock step right wing has not the guts, nor the real respect for the rule of law, that it trumpeted so loudly when, instead of making real war on terrorism, in 1998, it made war on the Clinton administration.
It is clear that the Bush administration used Post 911 terror on its own people, to win the Congressional elections of 2002, get the Authorization to Use Military Force against Iraq Act of 2002 passed, and then, as the Downing st memo clearly presages, used that same post 911 terror and lies about WMD to start a war, outside of UN authorization, which means illegally, as Kofe Annan said.
You should, and will, be ashamed some day, for supporting this war crime.
Correction: That is 62,040,610 people voted for ‘W’!
59,028,111 voted for John “FRENCHY” Kerry
the sneering of fascists is wearing thin. People are voting with their feet, telling their kids not to sign up with the US Army and be killed for lies.
There’s so much nonsense above its hard to know where to start.
But S is always a good place. “Arch-conspiracy of ooginess”? I don’t think it’s all that arch or much of a conspiracy. The President decided to go to war but told the American people he was still weighing his options. No arch conspiracy. Just a lie.
Now as to this, the meaning of “fix.” I’ve commented on this before. This is the mother of all reaches. Roger argues the following sentences mean the exact opposite of what they say. From Roger:
“But the intelligence and facts were being fastened around the policy.
But the intelligence and facts were being attached around the policy.
These make sense. The attitude is changing in Washington. The policy is drifting towards the realization that military action is inevitable. President Bush wants to remove Saddam. Intelligence and facts are being piled up around this policy. No one wants to take the shilly shallying, never get anything done UN route.
See how that all hangs together?”
No Roger I don’t because the problem isn’t with the word “Fix” it’s with the order of the nouns in the sentence. If the British meant what you say above they would have written
“But the policy was being fixed around the intelligence and facts.”
Now this makes sense. This hangs together. But that isn’t what the British understood the Americans to be doing. They understood a different ORDER of events: Policy preceding facts and intelligence. You can replace “fix” with any verb you want but as long as the intelligence is being set, positioned, discovered, interpreted, devulged, revealed, made up etc. AROUND the policy, it means the policy came first.
Look at how quickly Roger moves to obfuscate the fact that the British sentence clearly means the policy came first: “The policy is drifting towards the realization that military action is inevitable.” See how he’s shifted the sense order of the nouns? Suddenly, in Roger’s world, the policy comes after the intelligence and facts, drifting toward them, if you will. There is simply no way you can infer that this is what the British meant. If they meant the the policy was being shaped, fixed, drifting towards a growing realization they would have written:
“The policy is being shaped/fixed/set around the facts and intelligence.”
But of course they didn’t.
But let’s return to the what fix means issue. First off, is it possible that the British never, ever, ever use the American usage? Let’s see. From the OED
d. orig. U.S. ‘To make favourable to one’s purposes’ (Bartlett), to ‘square’, usu. by illegal means, esp. bribery.
Let’s see, this usage that first appeared, according to the OED, sometime around, oh, 1790. Yes, 1790. It’d be impossible for a slang usage to drift across the Atlantic Ocean in such a scant period of time as 200 plus years. Oh wait, the OED cites a usage of the American meaning in a Daily Telegraph articel from 1959 and a Guardian article from 1960.
1959 Daily Tel. 10 Dec. 20/3 He was told that a [driving] test could be ‘fixed’ for £10. 1960 Guardian 18 Oct. 8/2 The mere suspicion that matches were being ‘fixed’ would be disastrous for the game.
But let’s move up the definition chain to meaning number 13
13. To settle or determine the form of, give a permanent form to (language or literature).
1712 SWIFT Proposal 31 That some Method should be thought on for ascertaining and fixing our Language for ever.
Gee, here’s a usage of the term that can be traced to Swift in 1712.
Let’s see how this British usage squares with the sentence in the memo.
“But the intelligence and facts were being given a permanent form around the policy.”
You see Roger will tell you that this sentence means the policy was being set in accordance with the facts. But how can that be? Becuase it still means that policy preceded the intelligence.
Again, if the British meant what Roger wants them to mean they would have written:
“But the policy was being fixed/given a permanent form/being fastened/being attached around the intelligence and facts.”
But of course this isn’t what they meant. What they meant is there in black and white.
You Democratic Moonbat’s are soooo funny! Trying to make it fit your warped logic! Still Sheeple GET IT LIFE! GET OVER IT!
You have so much to look forward to! Hillary as you 08 nominee! Bwahahahahahahaha!
This is definitely not a partisan issue. This has nothing to do with ideological differences between left and right, Democrat and Republican, liberal and conservative.
This has everything to do with the fact that the Bush administration lied to the American people in order to pursue the course of war.
Thousand upon thousands of people are now dead or seriously injured.
A terrible crime has been committed by the Bush administration and we, as a nation, should not stand for it.
Is it not telling that the best refutation these dimbulb lock step ditto head go along with the popular mob neo nitwits can come up with are lame name calling “moonbats???” and sneering referrals to Hilary Clinton being a nominee for POTUS, which will not happen?
Speak to the substance, nitwits.
Gee, can all the racist, fascits nazi communists on this thread take a breath?
I’m only communicating to you in your own language, after reading all the pejoratives you try to spit out about us on the ‘far right’ and such.
Hint: that “far right” is moderate, conservative America. YOU are the fringe among the irrational left. Just read this thread for evidence of that.
Americans will continue to serve to protect your “right” to spew mental illness. Just don’t be surprised when the invoice arrives.
I see -S- has drunk the kool aid equating nazis and “fascits” (sic) lol…. with communists..
This attempted denial, by the propagandists of the right, of their true political heritage, that of being the political heirs of the right wing fascist german National Socialist party, and Italian fascists.. the supposed love of law and order, the heroicizing of the military, the elevating of their leader to a near god, and elevating the state and nationalism to a neo religion, AND in this case, the christian right wing, for example the KKK, Family Research Council, etc etc etc.. whose explicit aim is to merge the government with the protestant christian church by tearing down the wall of separation between church and state, which they say does not exist….. the kool aid, that nazis are communists, and which is nothing but pure poppycock… And there is nothing moderate about the core of the right.. the moderates are going along with them as the sheeple often do with the mob.
Its no wonder then, that -S- and his ilk can abet the extreme agenda and crimes committed by the neo cons.
Hey.. -S- I am what is known as a Reagan Democrat.. I voted for Reagan twice, to my shame and embarassment. He could not have been elected without me and the rest of us. The legacy of the Reagan / bush agenda… of intervention in Afghanistan, (remember, Osama bin Laden was a heroic mujahideen freedom fighter???)..the support of Saddam Hussein in his war with Iran, the betrayal of Saddam Hussein by Bush41, the First Gulf War… the legacy of all that.. is 9-11, and this war based on lies.
Reagan and his band got away with their crimes, selling arms to the Ayatollah, etc.. Reagan got off by the Alzheimers defense.. he couldn’t remember what day it was let alone when he sat in meetings authorizing the crime.
I doubt that you have the perspective, or education, to understand these things. Thus, it is so easy for you to go along with what you think is the popular crowd, just like the German people did in the 30s.. someday, you will no doubt be just like they were in the 40s. aghast at the evidence which was produced later. You are seeing the beginning of the evidence come out, but you are still in denial.
Until then, you will stay with who you perceive to be the winners.. until they are shown to be the losers they are..
“People like Rumsfeld helped arm Hussein with WMD’s.”
So Iraq had WMDs in your view? Or not? Decide, already.
They did, yes. In ’88, they had sarin gas, some anthrax we sold them…a few other things. Those SCUDs they shot at Israel. ‘Fact, when we were still friends with Hussein, we even helped him cover up 5,000 civilian deaths in Halabja with a DIA report. All Iran’s doing.
Of course, they kinda didn’t use any of those weapons on US when we fought them in the Gulf. Might lead one to believe that they stopped having WMDs somewhere along the line.
Iran Contra is complicated. We supported Khomeini’s rise to power, we sold Iran arms, then we turned on him. We supported Hussein, we sold HIM arms, then we turned on him too.
Then the Mujihadeen, to fight the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. We just sort of left them alone after the Soviets left, and in the meantime THEY turned on US. And that’s where Bin Laden and the Taliban come into the picture. Hey.
I’m not sure whether they cover this period in enough detail in history class.
First time I’ve had my comments censored on Wizbang!
This is funny…
Quote: “Its no wonder then, that -S- and his ilk can abet the extreme agenda and crimes committed by the neo cons.”
I don’t know if anyone else picked up on his mistake, but it jumped out at me right away.
-S- is female…
What do George ‘W’ Bush, Richard “Dick” Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, William Bennett, Ann Coulter, Frank Gaffney, Newton Leroy Gingrich “Newt”, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, William “Bill” O’Reilly, Michael Reagan, Michael Savage, Joe Scarborough, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Karl Rove, Asa Hutchinson, Richard Perle, Don Evans, Andrew “Andy” Card, John Bolton, Gary Bauer, Spencer Abraham, Rev. Jerry Farwell, Dr. Marion “Pat” Robertson, Gov. Jeb Bush, Rep Tom Delay, Rep Dennis Hastert, Dan Quayle, Brit Hume, William “Bill” Kristol, John Ashcroft, Clarence Thomas etc. (and the complete list is very long) have in common?
Answer to the question: They are all Chicken Hawks (ChickenHawks).
One meaning (Webster’s) of the work Chicken Hawk is: a noun: a hawk that preys or is believed to prey on chickens.
Another interpretation that applies as well (from The New Hampshire Gazette, founded in 1756): “Chickenhawk n. A person enthusiastic about war, provided someone else fights it; particularly when that enthusiasm is undimmed by personal experience with war; most emphatically when that lack of experience came in spite of ample opportunity in that person’s youth.”
It is the latter that all the aforementioned (and more) people have in common. If you would like to read about these folks and their option(s) for patriotic military service then visit this URL.
http://www.nhgazette.com. When the page opens, on the left hand side near the top, click on “Chickenhawks”.
“One meaning (Webster’s) of the work Chicken Hawk is: a noun: a hawk that preys or is believed to prey on chickens.”
Cherrypicking Republicans who didnt serve while cherrypicking the Democrats who did serve is a little misleading.
Overall, few if any elected democrats have served since the end of the draft.
92 republicans, 64 democrats and 2 independents. Move over, there are 9 congressmen who are still in the reserves, all republicans.
Look at the democrats. Most served in WW2 or Korea. Ted Kennedy was an example. As soon as the draft stopped, elected democrats stopped
List from 2002:
Alabama 9: 4R, 1D
Senator Jeff Sessions R USAR, 1973-86, CPT
Sonny Callahan R-1 USN, 1952-54, enlisted
Terry Everett R-2 USAF, 1955-59, enlisted
Robert E. ‘Bud’ Cramer Jr. D-5 USAR, 1976-1978, CPT
Spencer Thomas Bachus III R-6 National Guard, 1969-1971
Alaska 3: 3R
Senator Ted Stevens R USAF, 1943-1946, 1LT
Senator Frank H. Murkowski R Coast Guard, 1955-1956
Donald E. ‘Don’ Young R-1 USA, 1955-1957
American Samoa 1: 1D
Eni F.H. Faleomavaega D-1 USA, Vietnam Vet, 1966-1969, CPT
USAR, CPT, 1983-present
Arizona 8: 4R
Senator John S. McCain R National War College, Wash, DC, 1973-1974
BS, United States Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD, 1958
Senate Navy Liaison, 1977-1981
Pilot & Captain, United States Navy, 1958-1981,
received Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple
Distinguished Flying Cross
Prisoner of War in Vietnam, 1967-1973
Bob Stump R-3 USN, 1943-1946
John B. Shadegg R-4 Air National Guard, 1969-1975
James T. ‘Jim’ Kolbe R-5 USN, 1968-1969, Vietnam
Arkansas 6: 1R
DR. Victor F. ‘Vic’ Snyder, MD R-2 USMC, 1967-1969, CPL, Thailand
California 54: 4R, 3D
C. Michael Thompson D-1 USA, 1969-1973
Inst. Army Airborne School
Fortney H. ‘Pete’ Stark D-13 USAF, 1955-1957
Stephen ‘Steve’ Horn R-38 USAR, 1954-1962, SPC-7
Gary G. Miller R-41 USA, 1967-1968
Joe Baca D-42 USA, 1966-1968,
airborne (82nd & 101st Div.)
Randall H. ‘Duke’ Cunningham R-51 USN, 1967-1987, CMDR
Pilot & founder of Top Gun
Duncan L. Hunter R-52 USA, 1969-1971, LT
Colorado 8: 1R
Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell R USAF, 1951-1953, enlisted
(Cpt of 1964 US Olypmic Judo Tm)
Connecticut 8: 1R, 1D
Senator Christopher J. Dodd D USAR, 1969-75
Robert Ruhl ‘Rob’ Simmons R-2 USA, 1965-1968
USAR, 1969-1995, COL
CIA, 1969-1979, Operations Off.
Delaware 3: 1D
Senator Thomas Richard Carper D USN, 1968-1973, Flight Officer
USNR, 1973-1991, CAPTIAN
DC 1: 0
Florida 25: 5R, 2D
Senator Bill Nelson D USA, 1968-1970
F. Allen Boyd Jr. D-2 USA, 1969-71, 1LT
Clifford B. ‘Cliff’ Stearns R-6 USAF, 1963-67, CPT
Michael Bilirakis R-9 USAF, 1951-55
C. W. Bill Young R-10 National Guard, 1948-57
Porter J. Goss R-14 USA, 1960-1966
Clandestine Services Officer
Dr David J. ‘Dave’ Weldon Jr., MD R-15 USA, 1981-1987, MAJ
Georgia 13: 4R, 3D
Senator Joseph Maxwell ‘Max’ Cleland D USA, 1965-1968, CPT
Senator Zell Bryan Miller D USMC, 1953-1956, SGT
Sanford D. Bishop Jr. D-2 USA, ROTC, 1969-1971
Michael Allen ‘Mac’ Collins R-3 National Guard, 1964-1970 E-4
John H. ‘Johnny’ Isakson R-6 National Guard, 1966-1972, SSG
Bob Barr R-7 CIA, 1971-1978, Analyst
Nathan Deal R-9 USA, 1966-1968, CPT
Dr Charles W. Norwood Jr., DDS R-10 USA, 1968-1969, CPT, Vietnam
Guam 1: 0
Hawaii 4: 2D
Senator Daniel K. Inouye D USA, 1943-1947, 2LT
Senator Daniel Kahikina Akaka D USA, 1945-1947
Idaho 4: 2R
Senator Larry E. Craig R National Guard, 1971-1973,E-3
C.L. ‘Butch’ Otter R-1 National Guard, 1968-1973, enlisted
Illinois 22: 4R, 3D
Bobby Lee Rush D-1 USA, 1963-68, enlisted
William O. Lipinski D-3 USAR, 1961-1967
Henry John Hyde R-6 USN, 1942-1946, ENSIGN
USNR, 1946-1976, CMDR
Dr Philip M. Crane, Ph.d R-8 USA, 1954-56, CPL
Mark Steven Kirk R-10 USNR, LCmdr, present
Lane A. Evans D-17 USMC, 1969-1971, CPL
John M. Shimkus R-20 USA, 1980-1985, CPT
USAR, 1985-Present, MAJ
USA Academy Grad 1980
Indiana 12: 3R
Senator Richard G. Lugar R USN, 1957-1960, LTJG
Stephen E. ‘Steve’ Buyer R-5 USAR, 1980-present, LTC
USA, 1984-1987, CPT
USA, 1990-1991, MAJ (Gulf War)
The Citadel, 1980, grad
Dan L. Burton R-6 USA, 1957-1958
Iowa 7: 1R, 2D
Sen Thomas ‘Tom’ Harkin D USN, 1962-67, LT
USNR, 1968-74, LCdmr
Leonard L. Boswell D-3 USA, 1956-76, LTC
John ‘Greg’ Ganske R-4 USAR, 1986-present, LTC
Kansas 6: 1R, 1D
Senator Pat Roberts R USMC, 1958-62, LT
Dennis Moore D-3 USA, 1970, USAR, 1970-1972
Kentucky 6: 3R, 1D
Edward ‘Ed’ Whitfield R-1 USAR, 1967-1973, 100th DIV, 1LT
Ron Lewis R-2 USN, 1972
Kenneth R. ‘Ken’ Lucas D-4 USAF, 1955-1957
Air Guard, 1957-1967, MAJ
Dr Ernest Lee ‘Ernie’ Fletcher , MD R-6 USAF, 1974-1980
Louisiana 9: 1R, 1D
William J. Jefferson D-2 USA, 1969-1975, CPT
Dr John C. Cooksey, MD R-5 USAF, 1967-1969
MAINE 4: 0
Maryland 10: 1R
Wayne T. Gilchrest R-1 USMC, 1964-1968, SGT, Vietnam
Massachusetts 12: 5D
Senator Edward M. ‘Ted’ Kennedy D USA, 1951-1953, PFC
Senator John Forbes Kerry D USN, 1966-1970, LT
received Silver Star, Bronze Star, 3 Purple Hearts, 2 Presidential
Citations and a National Defense Medal
Edward J. ‘Ed’ Markey D-7 USAR, 1968-73
John ‘Joseph’ Moakley D-9 USN, 1943-1946
William D. ‘Bill’ Delahunt D-10 Coast Guard Res. 1963-1971
Michigan 18: 2R, 3D
Nick Smith R-7 USAF, 1959-61, CPT
Mike Rogers R-8 USA, CPT
FBI, Special Agent, Chicago
David Edward Bonior D-10 USAF, 1968-72, SSgt
Joseph K. ‘Joe’ Knollenberg R-11 USA, 1955-57, CPL
John Conyers Jr. D-14 National Guard, 1948-1950
USA, 1950-1954, USAR, 1954-1957
John D. Dingell D-16 USA, 1944-46, 2LT
Minnesota 10: 1R, 1D
James M. ‘Jim’ Ramstad R-3 USAR, 1968-74, LT
Collin C. Peterson D-7 National Guard, 1963-69, SSG
Mississippi 7: 2R, 1D
Senator Thad Cochran R USN, 1959-61, LTJG
Roger F. Wicker R-1 USAF, 1976-1980, CPT
USAFR, 1980-Present, LTC
Gene Taylor D-5 Coast Guard Res, 1964-1971, E-6
Missouri 11: 1R, 1D
W. Todd Akin R-2 USA, 1973-1983
Richard Andrew ‘Dick’ Gephardt D-3 Air National Guard, 1965-1971
Montana 3: 0
Nebraska 5: 3R
Senator Charles T. ‘Chuck’ Hagel R USA, 1967-68, SGT
Douglas K. ‘Doug’ Bereuter R-1 USA, 1963-1965, 1LT
Dr Thomas W Osborne, Ph.d R-3 USAR, 1960-1968
Wash. Redskins, 1960-1968
Nevada 4: 1R
James A. ‘Jim’ Gibbons R-2 USAF, 1967-1971, CPT
Air Nat Guard, 1975-1991, COL
New Hampshire 4: 1R
Senator Robert C. ‘Bob’ Smith R USN, 1965-1967, Vietnam, ENSIGN
USNR, 1962-1965, 1967-1969
New Jersey 15: 1R, 2D
Senator Jon Stevens Corzine D USMCR, 1969-1975, SGT
William J. ‘Bill’ Pascrell Jr. D-8 USA/R, 1961-1967, SGT
Rodney P. Frelinghuysen R-11 USA, 1969-1971, PRIVATE
93rd Eng. BN, VIETNAM
New Mexico 5: 2R, 1D
Senator Jeff Bingaman D USAR, 1968-1974
Dr Heather A. Wilson , Ph.d R-1 USAF, 1978-1989
BS, USAF Academy, 1982.
Rhodes Scholar, 1985, Ph.d
Joseph R. ‘Joe’ Skeen R-2 USN, 1945-1946, enlisted
New York 33: 4R, 4D
Peter T. King R-3 USAR, 1968-73
Charles B. Rangel D-15 USA, 1948-1952
Jose E. Serrano D-16 USA, 1964-1966, MEDIC
Benjamin A. Gilman R-20 National Guard, 1981-Present, COL
USA, 1943-1945, PRIVATE
Sherwood L. ‘Sherry’ Boehlert R-23 USA, 1956-1958
Maurice D. Hinchey D-26 USN, 1956-1959, enlisted
John J. LaFalce D-29 USA, 1965-67
Amory ‘Amo’ Houghton Jr. R-31 USMC, 1944-1946, PFC
North Carolina 14: 2R, 1D
Senator Jesse Helms R USN, 1942-45
Bob R. Etheridge D-2 USA, 1965-1967, E-4
John Howard Coble R-6 Coast Guard, 1952-1956, 1977-1978
Coast Guard Res, 1960-1981, O-6
North Dakota 3 (ALL DEMS): 0
Ohio 21: 3R
Paul E. Gillmor R-5 USAF, 1965-1966, CPT
David Lee ‘Dave’ Hobson R-7 Air National Guard, 1958-1963
Ralph Regula R-16 USN, 1944-1946
Oklahoma 8: 3R
Senator Don Nickles R National Guard, 1970-76;
Senator James M. Inhofe R USA, 1954-1956
Wesley ‘Wes’ Watkins R-3 Air National Guard, 1960-1967, 2LT
Oregon 7: 1D
Peter A. Defazio D-4 USAFR
Pennsylvania 23: 5R, 5D
Senator Arlen Specter R USAF, 1951-53, 1LT
John E. Peterson R-5 USA, 1957, SPC
Donald L. ‘Don’ Sherwood R-10 USA, 1964-1966, 1LT
Paul E. Kanjorski D-11 USA, 1960-1961
John P. Murtha D-12 USMC, 1952-55, 1966-67, COL
Joseph M. Hoeffel D-13 USAR, 1970-1976.
William J. Coyne D-14 USA, 1955-1957, Korea, SPC
Joseph R. Pitts R-16 USAF SAC, 1963-1969, CPT
George W. Gekas R-17 USA, 1953-1955, CPL
Frank R. Mascara D-20 USA, 1946-47, private
Puerto Rico 1: 0
Rhode Island 4: 1D
Senator John F. ‘Jack’ Reed D USA, 1967-79; USAR, 1979-91;
BS, U.S. Mil Academy, 1971;
South Carolina 8: 4R, 2D
Senator Strom Thurmond R USA, 1942-46, LTC
USAR, 1924-41, 1947-65; Maj Gen
Senator Ernest F. ‘Fritz’ Hollings D USA, 1942-1945, CPT
Henry Edward Brown Jr. R-1 NAT. GUARD, 1953- 1962
Floyd Davidson Spence R-2 USNR, 1952-1988, CAPTAIN
(Korean Conflict, 1952-1954)
Lindsey O. Graham R-3 Air Nat Guard, 1989-present, MAJ
John McKee Spratt Jr. D-5 USA, 1969-1971, CPT
South Dakota 3: 2D
Senator Thomas A. ‘Tom’ Daschle D USAF, 1969-1972, 1LT
Senator Tim P. Johnson D USA, 1969;
Tennessee 11: 4R, 2D
William Lewis ‘Bill’ Jenkins R-1 USA, 1960-1962, LT MPs
John James ‘Jimmy’ Duncan Jr. R-2 USAR, 1970-1987, CPT
William V. ‘Van’ Hilleary R-4 USAF, 1982-1984, CPT
USAFR, 1984-present, MAJ
Robert N. ‘Bob’ Clement D-5 USA, 1969-1971, LT
National Guard, 1971-present, LTC
Edward G. ‘Ed’ Bryant R-7 USA, 1970-1978, CPT
John S. Tanner D-8 USN, 1968-1972, LT
NAT. GUARD, 1974-present, LTC
Texas 32: 2R, 6D
James ‘Jim’ Turner D-2 USA, 1978, CPT
Samuel Robert ‘Sam’ Johnson R-3 USAF, 1951-1979, COL
Ralph Moody Hall D-4 USN, 1942-1945, LT
Dr Ronald E. ‘Ron’ Paul, MD R-14 USAF, 1963-1965, CPT
Air National Guard, 1965-1968
Silvestre Reyes D-16 USA, 1966-1968, SGT (E-5)
Charles A. ‘Charlie’ Gonzalez D-20 Air National Guard, 1969-1975,
Jonas ‘Martin’ Frost III D-24 USAR, 1966-1972
Solomon P. Ortiz D-27 USA, 1960-1962, E-5
Utah 5: 2R
Senator Robert F. Bennett R National Guard, 1957-61, 1LT
James V. Hansen R-1 USN, 1951-1955
Vermont 3: 1I
Senator James M. ‘Jim’ Jeffords I USN, 1956-1959
USNR, 1959-present, CAPTAIN
Virgin Islands 1: 0
Virginia 13: 4R, 1D, 1I
Senator John W. Warner R USN, 1944-1946
Edward L. ‘Ed’ Schrock R-2 USN, 1964-1988, CAPTAIN
Robert C. ‘Bobby’ Scott D-3 USAR, 1970-74
National Guard, 1974-76
Virgil H. Goode Jr. I-5 National Guard, 1969-1975.
Frank Rudolph Wolf R-10 USA, 1962-1963, USAR, 1963-1967
Thomas M. ‘Tom’ Davis III R-11 USA, 1971-1972, 2LT
National Guard, 1972-1979
Washington 11: 1R
Doc Hastings R-4 USAR, 1963-1969, SPC
West Virginia 5: 1D
Alan B. Mollohan D-1 USAR, 1970-1983, CPT
Wisconsin 11: 2D
Senator Herbert H. ‘Herb’ Kohl D USAR, 1958-1964
Gerald D. ‘Jerry’ Kleczka D-4 Air National Guard, 1963-1969
Wyoming 3: 2R
Senator Craig Thomas R USMC, 1955-1959, LT
Senator Michael B. Enzi R Air National Guard, 1968-1973
532: 92R, 64D, 2I
Yes, I was ‘Cherry Picking as I believe it is important to remember that it is the Chicken Hawks who are responsible for costing our country nearly 2,000 lost lives, at least 12,630 wounded, many who are amputees etc. all for, well, something that simply wasn’t truthful.
Oh, and of course, according to the John Hopkins survey the estimated 100,000 ‘Civilian’ Iraq’s that are dead which include pregnant women, infants, babies, little boys and little girls, young men and women and naturally old people in their 60’s, 70’s and 80’s; and then there is a little matter of a few hundred Billion (that’s with a ‘B’) dollars wasted on this war leaving our country, basically, broke!
During my war years in ’69-’70 the acronym “REMF” had different meanings for many of us in the Military.
I am not one who would take away anyone’s military service (unlike the politically motivated ‘Swift Boat Veterans For Truth’ did to millions of American veterans) regardless of the capacity they served in; the acronym “REMF” is short for ‘Rear Escalon Mother F___er.
Most of us who are tried, tested and ‘decorated’ combat veterans who really understand the waste of war held a bit of resentment (probably envy) for those good folks ‘in-the-rear’ but people like Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rove, Rumsfeld and the rest of the gang are in fact the Ultimate REMF’s.
Take Cheney who had about five (5) deferments during his war years. According to Dick (on National TV and in the papers) “I had other priorities in the ’60’s than military service”. Ah yes, the actions of a true blood, gore and guts Patriot.
And as for ‘W’. Bumped to the head of the national card program, meaning someone else didn’t get in (the Guard) and maybe went, fought and died in Vietnam. Yes, good old George was yet another great American Patriot during his war years.
That said and without going on and on it is all this simple. This administration has botched so many things in the War in Iraq that I dare say that an open minded individual, regardless of his or her political affiliation who have to agree that:
1. Iraq had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 9/11.
2. Iraq was not a threat to the United States of America.
3. That the Bush administration attacked a sovereign nation without cause.
4. The current administration had an Iraq agenda long before 9/11.
5. The Downy Street Memo clearly shows that agenda.
6. There are no WMD and ‘if’ there were, Israel would have taken them out.
7. That there was no real ‘Coalition of the Willing’.
8. That of the original 48 countries (of said Coalition) many are countries without a military such as Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau, and that the list of those countries in the Coalition continues to dwindle. The pull out includes Nicaragua, Spain, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Philippines, Thailand, New Zealand, Tonga, Hungary, Portugal and now Poland, Netherlands, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Italy are also pulling out.
If you want to see who is in the Coalition and who is not visit this website:
1. “During my war years in ’69-’70”
Are you claiming to have been in Vietnam during 1969-1970? Or were you just in the military during those years? It sounds like the former, but frankly I prefer to see proof before accepting anything.
No offense but if everyone who claimed to have been in Vietnam actually had been, then we must have had about 40 million grunts there.
2. Your “points” are erroneous, wrong and frankly silly. They’ve been answered repeatedly and by many sources. Since you won’t bother reading them, I won’t bother listing them.
91BRAVO20! 1ST Infantry Division, 1/28 Black Lions. “No Mission To Difficult. No Sacrifice To Great. Duty First.”
Rod, aka, Doc.
“This is funny…
Quote: “Its no wonder then, that -S- and his ilk can abet the extreme agenda and crimes committed by the neo cons.”
I don’t know if anyone else picked up on his mistake, but it jumped out at me right away.
-S- is female…
Posted by: Darby at June 5, 2005 04:38 AM
That is the best you can do? Ok, I amend my statement to read “his / her ilk”
Now, address the substance. Koolaid.
You drank the koolaid too, right?
Weak. VERY weak.