Just when you thought you’ve seen everything…
Administrators at Fairmount Park Elementary in her St. Petersburg, Fla., had a 5 year-old girl arrested for doing what many 5 year-olds do – having a tantrum. What’s different about this case is that most of the action just so happed to be caught on videotape.
According to 10News, the child wound up in handcuffs and leg restraints, which Police say was an appropriate response. The state’s attorney apparently disagreed and refused to prosecute the five year old. ABC News quotes the attorney for the family of the girl:
“The police officers’ actions are way over the top. Three police officers having to forcibly handcuff a 5-year-old little girl? I mean, come on,” said John Trevena, the family’s attorney. “Is there anything more that needs to be said about that?”
He was also critical of the actions of Dibenedetto and Tsaousis, who he said could have done more to calm the girl.
“I’m concerned that the educators shadowed and hovered around the young girl,” he said. “It certainly gives credence to the argument that they may have been provoking her to act out more. To me, it didn’t look like a de-escalation. It looked like an escalation, an attempt to get her to act out more. I just don’t understand why they didn’t distance themselves back further and allow things to cool off.”If you watch the video you’ll hear this quote from one of the three officers who “Do you remember me?” one of them asks the girl. “I’m the one who told your mom I’d put handcuffs on you.”
I watched through all of the video tapes, and a much as I want to give the benefit of the doubt to the school, there’s nothing on the tape that warrants the police treatment, in fact there’s nothing on the tape that warrants police presence. The initial outburst occurs before the first tape starts, but as the parent of two stubborn 3 1/2 year old boys there wasn’t anything on those tapes I’d never seen before, which I imagine is true for many of you as well.
What do you think?
Classroom Video [SPTimes]
Office Video [SPTimes]
Police Handcuff 5-Year-Old After Tantrum [ABC]
Video of 5-year-old getting arrested, leaving school in handcuffs [10 News]
What is going on in FL with how children are being treated? Either child services loses them, they are being abducted, killed or put in handcuffs.
Its a child for god’s sake, have a little finess. But, children don’t vote do they?
That child didn’t need handcuffs, she needed a good spanking.
I agree that what she really needs is a spanking. But there’s also this bit:
If you watch the video you’ll hear this quote from one of the three officers who “Do you remember me?” one of them asks the girl. “I’m the one who told your mom I’d put handcuffs on you.”
This indicates that there’s a whole lotta backstory on this we haven’t heard.
The kids parents wouldn’t have spanked that child, which explains the behavior to begin with. Notice how the child calmed down once the LEO arrived. I think this is exactly what the little fucker needed. My god, if I acted like that growing up, I wouldn’t be sitting here today. I would be dead. What happened to the days when schools could paddle kids who acted up like this? Little fucker.
Yeah, they should have just tasered the kid.
Ok… kidding.
Another reason why they should go back to letting the teachers disipline the children, like when I was growing up. We got paddled, smacked on the hands and verbally talked to when we got out of line – in public school. Now, (yes, I’m going to blame the liberals) thanks to the liberal whining and their bullshit, if you look at a student funny you get in trouble. That’s why these kids grow up with no respect at all.
This little girl obviously has behavioral issues and the police have dealt with her or her family before. And in this case, had to because no one else would or was afraid to. The kid needed to be restrained, and rather than risk a lawsuit the teacher had little option but to call someone who could restrain her.
I’ve worked with kids in this area (St. Petersburg/Bradenton) at the Boys & Girls club, we never had to call the cops because unlike teachers, we were allowed to restrain and punish a child if they got unruly.
And it’s hard to compare your children to this child. You might not see it, but there are plenty of parental issues behind this childs behavior that probably don’t exist in your house – nor in mine. My children are taught respect, therefore I would never expect something like this to happen. It’s unfortunate that the cops had to come to restrain the girl, but neccessary, as obviously the teacher could not do anything without fear of retribution.
Spanking would be the right thing but you’d get arrested for it. Maybe the mother wanted to put a good scare into the kid, no doubt she probably needed it, as long as it didn’t go any further than this. I’ve put the fear of God into my kids when they were little but up to a point so they never do that again. If this went further, then that’s going too far but if this is it and it’s going to make that little girl think twice next time, then I’m all for it.
Cindy
You know, over the last couple of years, I have heard of an increasing number of these incidents, i.e. school children acting out in some way that in times past would have been dealt with by parents or school officials, and the kid ends up being led away in handcuffs by local law enforcement officials.
Why?
Have school administrators gotten so gun shy about liability lawsuits that they think that this their only recourse in the case of a disruptive student?
Florida sure does seem to be a nice social laboratory these days.
“Do you remember me?” one of them asks the girl. “I’m the one who told your mom I’d put handcuffs on you.”
That might work with a 14-year old. Whatever else is going on – and I agree mostly with the comments about teachers no longer having the necessary authority – this was a terribly poor way of handling the situation. But cops can only do what cops can do, which doesn’t include proficiency in child psychology, and teachers can only do what they can do.
It should have been the parents’ responsibility, like it was when a similar incident happened to a friend. She went, picked up the screaming kindergartner (literally), took him home and dealt with it. Never had the problem again, and that kid is one of the nicest.
My mother was an elementary school principal for many years before retiring four years ago. Near the end of her tenure, it wasn’t uncommon for her to call the police to come restrain an uncontrollable child. The little darlings would go berzerk in her office, screaming, kicking, pushing over desks, etc. But god help her if she ever laid a hand on one of them. The police had no such qualms, however. Also, the brat’s patents could often care less if the kid got dentention or a suspension, but when they got a call from the cops, that usually got their attention.
This kid need a can of Whoop ass opened up on her. Take that back, she needed a 6 pack of Whoop ass. It starts at home folks. The teachers did what they could without themselves getting into trouble. What happen to the days when the teacher could give you a spanking and for that matter when moms used to get the “wooden spoon” out.
* Corporal punishment at school banned.
* Defensive parents leaping to excuse their kids, do not discipline them at home.
* Rampant diagnosis of ADD and other disorders force schools to tolerate inexcusable conduct from children.
Schools are quickly running out of options.
They ought to fire the jerk who said “I’m the one who told your mom to put handcuffs on you”. If those pussies can’t handle a five year old child without putting handcuffs on her, then they need to find a new line of work.
Society is getting ridiculous when we have to resort to cops to handle each and every situation.
I wonder how often this happens at private schools.
I have subbed in our local schools a lot, and the kids these days just seem a lot more angry.
I also think parents are conflict avoiders, and they give in too quickly with their kids, and reinforce tantruming behaviors, then the kid gets to school, where big surprise, the world does not revolve around them.
Also, teachers pretty much don’t have too many disciplinary options other than taking away reccess, which pretty much sucks as punishment IMO.
I won’t disagree that the kid needed to be disciplined.
Handcuffing the child was ridiculous. She’s five. The can of whoopass required, as someone so lyrically suggested, would be only a thimble full, if anyone there had any guts, or actually cared about the correction of the child’s behavior.
For instance, if I were the principal, I and a staff member (and the school systems attorney, if I was worried that much) would sit her down in isolation. She could rage and scream until her lungs fell out, but I can outlast a five-year-old without police assistance. Unpleasant children, even really disruptive children, aren’t a police matter. In Florida, they have plenty of work to do elsewhere.
Given that “remember me?…” quote, something tells me that the mother was in cahoots with the cops somehow, and in fact encouraged them to arrest her to “teach her a lesson”. If so that mother ought to be given a serious tongue lashing, if not a physical one, and perhaps her parental rights stripped. Oh, yeah, and the cop ought to be fired regardless.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I certainly agree that much has been lost in the way of education since the days that schools and school districts could deal with this through corporal punishment and/or detention (not “ISS”, mind you, dark broom-closet style detention). That said, this child obviously has a history of this sort of outburst, and while everyone thinks it’s “over-the-top” for her to be handcuffed at this age, the fact remains that tantrums at this age may well lead to massacres in the teen years.
On the other hand, though, I can see where some damage is being done here. The parents (or more likely, parent) and teachers should be able to deal with this without getting police involved. If nothing else, this child stands a great chance of growing up with even more resentment for authority, especially when it wears a badge.
Boo frickin hoo. Kevin, I’m quite sure that even on a bad day, your kids wouldn’t be as cracked-out and disrespectful as this little snot was to her teachers, however castrated they are to responding in a way that constructively teaches her the necessary lesson.
The crafty little sucker was just getting away with what she could until the real muscle arrived. Miraculous repentance! Cue the tears.
Her reaction was the 5 year-old’s version of, “What, me?”
Tantrums at five could lead to massacres in the future? We’ll have to handcuff all five year olds.
In fact, I’ll bet every person responsible for a massacre (there have to be a dozen or so, right?) had tantrums at two or three years old. Unfortunately, so did the other 300 million people who didn’t massacre anyone.
We hear a lot about massacres, but they are very rare. Brutalizing every kid who has a tantrum is unlikely to change that number significantly in either direction.
“That makes me so sad….you broke her apple”
That’s a hell of alot more restraint that I would have. From what I’m seeing, the teachers are not doing anything to stop her as in physically restraining her (probably for fear of a lawsuit). The teacher keeps going “Not Acceptable” which means absolute crap to the little girl. There are ways to restrain a child when they are doing something that you have continually asked them NOT to do. It doesn’t take brain surgery, just proper training and a parent whose willing to sign a liability waiver.
It’s not the police who were over the top; it’s the educators. They had no business calling the police in the first place. The appropriate response to this situation would have been to put the girl in a room by herself (an empty conference room, for example), suspend her, and call her parents to come pick her up. They could have then warned the parents that if they could not find a way for their child to behave in school, the girl would have to be expelled.
I had my own experience once with stupid educators calling the police when I was 18. Long story short, I went to my little sister’s elementary school to pick my sister up. A few hours later, I got a phone call from the police asking if I had attacked a girl at the school. Apparently a sixth-grader had run into the school ahead of me, breathlessly telling her teacher that I had chased her into the building. Instead of asking me about this while I was there like normal people would, the administrators quickly and quietly called the police. I was gone with my sister long before the police arrived, and they spent some time mulling over school video camera footage before they figured out who I was. Apparently the fact that children sometimes lie to get attention was completely lost on them.
I blame behavior like this on the fact that most school teachers are Democrats. ‘Nuff said.
This is the foolishness which results when today’s concept of “in loco parentis” doesn’t permit spanking. For which you can thank lawyers and the hyper-litigious “what about my rights?” crowd. That spoiled rebellious brat needed her bottom warmed, just as mine was, just as my children’s were.
I give it about 17 seconds before it becomes racial…..
1st, Kudos to the school staff for not losing it and doing something they’d definitely get in trouble for. I would never had been able to show the restraint. This is likely a reason I’m not involved in the education system or law enforcement.
2nd, that kid needed something drastic to be done. She obviously has no respect for authority unless you are wearing a badge and a gun. And how long do you think that will last with her? Can you imagine her at 13? The cuffs hopefully made an impression on the girl that acting out like this has consequences.
3rd, the cuffs were necessary from the police standpoint to ensure the safety of the girl and the officers. Had she been taken to the car without some sort of restraint, the kicking, hitting and screaming would have come back, resulting in the cops tightening their grip, the girl fighting harder, and so on. If you’ve ever handled a youngster in the midst of a tantrum, you’d be surprised how strong they become. I’m sure the officers could have restrained her without the cuffs – most adults could, but then we’d have an abuse lawsuit – which we’ll probably have anyway.
damned if they do. damned if they don’t.
Sorry, but all of you esposing corporal punishment probably have it wrong. Don’t get me worng, I used to feel that way too. Until 5 years ago when we adopted a special needs child that has tantrums similar to this.
I COULD beat her until she broke and it would not stop the tantrums. It is psychological. It is the only way the child knows how to get her point across. The educators are at fault for allowing it to escalate. TroolSlayer had it right that the response should have been
The appropriate response to this situation would have been to put the girl in a room by herself (an empty conference room, for example), suspend her, and call her parents to come pick her up.
Now, the child knows that she will definitely get attention and her point across by acting this way so it will not be the last we hear of her.
Well, OK, hearing some of the other points softens my view a little bit. I’m willing to hear it all out. But I tell you what, this would never have happened if teachers could still put a paddle to your ass for acting up.
Ha! No sooner do I decide to post that than itsmedavid crossposts a counterpoint 🙂 itsmedavid, you make a reasonable point, corporal punishment isn’t going to work for everyone. But its strength is primarily in the [i]threat[/i] of its use. That is, for every kid who ultimately gets spanked there are many who would have acted up but for fear of being that one. I’m open to any alternate form of punishment that strikes a similar fear.
Due to my father’s AF Reserve duties, I got to spend an enjoyable year (1971-1972, 3rd grade) at the Prattville Primary School in Prattville, Alabama (suburb of Montgomery). Mind you, up ’til then I’d been educated in the best liberal Vermont fashion. On the very first day of school my teacher took from her drawer a hard maple paddle, walked to the front of the room, and started slapping it against her hand Buford Pusser-style. It became exceedingly clear in that moment that I would not fsck up in that class. When punishment was needed, it was swift and unrelenting. The miscreant was taken into the hallway, where his (never saw/heard a girl get paddled) yelps would meld with the slap of the paddle. The way the school was laid out, everyone heard what was going on.
There were few discipline problems at Prattville Primary School.
i’ve agreed with itsmedavid’s point from the start. The best option is to lock the child in a room by herself, then allow her to scream to her hearts content until she realizes her tantrum will not win her any attention.
spoilt brat.
Will a closet do? 🙂
Ugly. I have mixed feelings about this: sorrow that the kid’s trajectory in life is straight down and that the school is an accomplice in this by demonstrating to her that they are rendered powerless by her bad behavior. I’m of an age and Catholic school education that the nuns would have whumped my ass and my mother would have been next in line.
That was then. This is now.
I have a daughter who is a teacher. She can’t put her hands physically on a child to comfort them for fear of a lawsuit if they are hurt on the playground.
You can have all of the common sense in the world but it is voided by fear of child molestation/abuse allegations that come out of left field. And by “left”, I mean the left that will not tolerate commonsense as a viable way of living anymore.
To the person who said this, “The kids parents wouldn’t have spanked that child, which explains the behavior to begin with.“, and to all the others that agreed with the “whoop ass” bit, you are so clueless as to what it takes to raise a child properly.
I have two boys and have never had to resort to any spanking. They do great in school, are highly praised by teachers and principals, have awesome grades. Spanking is NEVER required if you raise your child right … from the moment they are born.
And that includes lots of love and attention, and making the line clear of what is acceptable and not acceptable behavior.
It seems most commenters operate from the assumption that this child’s tantrum stems from unruliness, a lack of parental discipline, or some other conscious behavioral fault. As the parent of a child with an autistic condition, I dealt with tantrums like this for seven years. It is quite possible, if not likely, that this child suffer’s from a disability similar to my son’s — in which she is incapable of processing the information necessary (i.e., be quiet or we are going to punish you) to self-regulate her behavior, resulting in a spiraling out-of-control (“melt-down,” as it is called). Even if she could understand that she wants to conrol herself, she is incapable of it. The only way to address it is to remove her from the situation — similar to what Henry said (without the lock) — and let her complete her meltdown free of restraint, usually out of physical exhaustion.
I am certain there are those reading this that scoff, quite convinced my comment is one of those “a disability for every abberant behavior” beliefs of clueless parents. Don’t be smug in your self-assurance. And thank God every single day that you have healthy children.
After years of treatment, special education, “behavior plans,” psychiatric treatment, and (gulp) medication, along with a good deal of intellectual growth, the once uncontrollable child in this house is able to see his meltdowns beore they occur, and avoid them by expressing himself verbally and appropriately.
Many will not be so lucky. Particularly those whose inexplicable tantrums continue to be treated as though their conduct is deliberate or designed to attract “attention.”
Sorry if this sounds a tad sanctimonious. I’ve endured too many of those “looks” in the supermarket, those rsvp “regrets,” and a lot more, from the presumptuous parents of perfect children.
Blogworthy said:
* Defensive parents leaping to excuse their kids, do not discipline them at home.
* Rampant diagnosis of ADD and other disorders force schools to tolerate inexcusable conduct from children.
Count your blessings, my friend. And don’t spread that gross generalization too thin!
Angie, you are blessed beyond measure that your children are so easily controlled. Either that, or your guidelines of “acceptable behaviour” are so broad that a only a certifiable psychopath would violate them.
Strange that you call me “clueless” about raising a child properly, seeing as I have the experience of raising five of my own, including a set of triplet girls. Do I spank them often? No. Do I spank them properly? Yes. I know this may be beyond your grasp, because of the angelic nature of your own offspring, but children sometimes do things that are just bad, even if they are raised “right.”
My children don’t fear me or my wife, but they do know that disobedience is not tolerated, and that defiance of authority will be punished. That’s something that the girl in the video obviously didn’t know, and although you don’t disclose the age of your children (mine range from 5 to 15), I’d be willing to bet that they’re not particularly hesitant to challenge authority either, even if they do back down with relatively little pressure. My word of caution is, if they are young now, the amount of pressure needed to keep them in line increases unbelievably when the hormones start to flowing.
That assistant principal is pathetic. She had no authority in her voice, no tactic other than repeating the same lame “not acceptable”, no disciplinary skills at all. A good teacher doesn’t need to spank/beat stubborn kids in order to get them in line. You notice the cops don’t beat the girl to get her to sit down – as soon as she saw an adult whose authority she respected, she sat her butt down and got quiet. She probably would have done the exact same thing when her mom arrived. I’ve seen kids bulldoze weak, whiny, clueless teachers like this, driving them to tears, and when a strong teacher or parent gets on the scene, it’s another story entirely. The problem is not that the teacher can’t paddle kids, it’s that she can’t imagine any way to deal with kids besides whining with her hands up and “no ma’am” (uh, the kid should be calling you ma’am; you’re revealing how little power you have). Between “no ma’am” and whipping, a good educator has 1,000,000 approaches for difficult kids — I’m certainly agreeing that kid is being difficult — and she has zip – zero.
I went to elementary school in Western Kentucky in the early 70’s. Teachers were just beginning to experiment with idiocy like ‘new math’ and that ilk, while political correctness and self-esteem hysteria had not yet emerged. It was hard to learn much, and they didn’t mind making you feel sort of stupid.
When I got out of line, and even occasionally when I didn’t, I got a serious paddling. (Once for have an untied shoe.) Justice was swift and to the point, which was good, but could be arbitrary and brutal, which was not.
I would take exception to my kid getting the beating I took a few times. Teachers need to have the tools and authority to keep order, though. Without handcuffs or cops, preferrably.
I always find it amazing how many expert parents there are.
Coming in from outdoors, I saw the end portion of a Fox aired segment about this with Judge Napolitano and a Child Psychologist. The psychologist was very critical of the school and police response.
He contended this also had racial overtones and likely litigation would ensue. In the case, the out-of-control female student is African-American, all school staff appear to be White females and the psychologist was a male Afrcan American. The 3 officers were White; one was a female.
Looked to me like there might be more to the story.
Then I tried Wizbang to scope out the Caption Contest, and what should I see but this post.
I’m an early retiree HR Director/Manager and have handled issues in the workplace where workers had threatened or acted out. Colleagues at other employers in the region have had workplace fatalities due to violence at work.
I also sub teach 3-5 days a week from Pre-K to 12, including Special Ed; basically I accept whatever assignment they have a need for that is convenient for me. My undergrad is in Secondary Ed and my kids are grown, so I find it an enjoyable use of my time and a way to ‘give back’ a bit to the community.
I had parochial education through grade 10, and would never have made it alive out of 1st grade if I’d pulled more than 15 seconds of behavior like shown on the tape!
I watched the office tape and read the accompanying newpaper account before posting this. Obviously some posters have not read the newspaper account.
Some observations: The classroom is spacious and seems well equipped. The out-of-control student looks tall for her age, and is well dressed and not scruffy. The FOX tape showed the administrator present with a walkie-talkie, and trying to control her in ways that seemed appropriate. I have a dial-up so I did not view all of the classroom tape.
The office tape showed the student trashing the room, repeatedly striking at the V-P, and climbing repeatedly on the round table (likely a pedestal). The V-P acted to keep the student from injury, to protect herself from assault and to minimize the physical damage, in that order. The office outburst lasted more that 4 1/2 minutes before the kid quieted down. It appears that the arrival of the police was what got her attention, since they entered right afterwards.
Its clear from the officer comments and the newspaper account that the police had been summoned to deal with this student previously, and had warned her a repeat would get her removed.
The school and the police are in a lose-lose bind in this type of encounter. They have to control an unruly child who is capable of hurting themself, other students and adults, in addition to trashing the class, etc. In addition, they have a duty to provide a conducive environment for other students to learn in.
I think the school and police made good decisions here. The parent was called and could not be at the school in a timely fashion. The police acted to neutralize the child’s ability to act out while in their custody, which removed the child’s opportunity to harm herself or others while enroute to the station.
Earlier this year I subbed for a teacher who had been assaulted by a primary school student. He ran from his classroom while they were trying to call his parent, because of his behavior, and repeatedly hit a teacher in an adjoining room about the head and face with a phone handset when she was trying to summon assistance. She was out of work for several weeks before gradually returning to work on a part-time basis as she healed.
Other posters have commented on the changes we have accepted in society over the past few decades. Most, including me, rue taking effective disciplinary tools from teachers, while appearing to grant license to increasingly unruly students.
Students have a right to be educated in an atmosphere conducive to learning; students and teachers should not be exposed to assault in the school. Students like this should be out of the system until they can demonstrate that they can meet behavioral expectations on a continuing basis.
Anyone who teaches in public schools can quickly discern, with a high degree of accuracy, which students are getting good guidance at home. The 80/20 rule definitely applies.
We have a lot of people here arguing what constitutes good disciplinary technique from a parent’s perspective. Well I have to tell you I’m not convinced that parental techniques map so easily to the public classroom. It’s one thing when the parent-child ratio is 1:1 or 2:1, another thing with the teacher-child ratio is 1:20.
Now I’m willing to hear some genuine alternatives to restoring corporal punishment in the classroom. And some here have offered them. The good ones have to be scalable. I think that inevitably means some sort of stern but brief disciplinary techniques for the classroom… and for those that do not respond to those techniques, the child has to be separated to allow the rest of the class to progress, and only then more involved, in-depth, and individualized approaches can be considered.
A brief clarification on my 80/20 comment.
20% of students frequently consume 80% of your time due to their behavioral issues. They make learning a challenge for the 80% of students who are interested in learning, and who have behavior that is acceptable.
Yes, let’s lock the little hellion in a room, by herself, so she can resolve her tantrum.. And, while she’s in there by herself, maybe she’ll get injured, and the school will have a juicy, tax-dollar-sucking lawsuit on their hands..
Teachers should not have to be referees.. The onus for instilling proper respect for an authority figure falls directly on the parents..
I was not in a school which employed physical disipline.. That being said, this kind of abject disrespect would rarely, if ever, occur in my time.. (I’m 33, by the way.)
Kids used to have the Fear of God reverberate through their heads if a call to their parents was deemed neccessary..
Now, instead of being disiplinarians to their kids, parents are too busy trying to be friends with them..
Spank the little shit.. Better yet, bludgeon the parents..
I was expelled my first day of Nursery School when I asked for a hamburger instead of a cheeseburger (both available at the lunch table), and was physically attacked (beaten over the back and head) by the teacher for daring to ask for anything. I am not sure, but it may have been also because I spoke before the prayer for the meal – something we didn’t do at home and I was unfamiliar with. After said teacher told my mother I was psychotic, I had a long session with a kiddie shrink who concluded the teacher was the psycho. We went to a different school, where they said I’d do better in Kindergarten.
Which I did. Fortunately, I did learn quickly to shut up and be still during prayer. So no more trips to the kiddie shrinks.
Dang, if that had happened in a legal environment we have today, we’d of gotten a multi-million dollar settlement in court for abuse, and I probably would have turned into a real psycho-delinquent…
BTW, I never did develop a phobia of cheeseburgers. Just Nursery School teachers.
Home discipline was having to pick a switch from the forsythia hedge and take a quick but meaningful leg/thigh lashing. That sure happened as infrequently as I could manage.
As tempted as I am to use a 2 x 4 to apply the same kind of discipline to the teen age boys under my current supervision, I’ve found the only legal way I can get their attention these days is to remind them I can have them evicted in 14 days or less. That and non-monetary carrots (helpful guidance and the occassional stint as chauffeur) seems to work towards some level of cooperation.
But I long for the lost legal ability to administer a swift kick to the butt.
There is currently proposals before some florida school boards to deny problem students access to services if the families refuse to medicate the children. Something tells me that the taping of this might end up in one of those hearing.
I think we can all agree kids are over medicated. Some kids need the meds to function. Most kids are given them because doctors are pill happy with kids these days and parents are too busy trying to get back to their day job to wonder about alternatives to medications that alter the chemical balance of a child’s brain.
Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised to see these tapes shown in defense of the schools trying to force parents to medicate their kids or keep them at home.
What no one seems to have addressed occurs in the classroom video. While trying to control the child the teachers are informed that the mother can not come in until 3:15PM because she gets off of work at 3. That is unacceptable in this situation. I realize that the mom may be placed in a bad spot at work, but what signal does this send to the school and the kid when the parent can’t be bothered. The parent(s) should have been handcuffed right after the girl was. This girl has been raised with no respect for any authority figure other than the police.
And wavemaker I think that is where you can tell this girl does not have the same condition that your boy does. The moment she sees the police she sits down at the table and becomes silent and still. She now knows she has gone too far.
Back to my point about the parents or parent. I know while I was in school, the mere threat of calling my parents if I acted up or got in trouble was enough to scare me straight. I never went to a school with corporal punishment, but my parents would dole it out when necessary and would not do it to harm me, more to teach me a lesson. And it worked. I will do the same with my kids when they step out of line. The school also seems totally inept in handling this situation, but I could write forever about that, maybe tomorrow. Tonight, I just wonder why her parents have their heads up their asses.
I’m sorry but those cops had no right to put the cuffs on that little girl. When the girl saw the cops she was sitting calmly in the chair.
That experience will probably hurt her more than help her.
She is not a bad little girl. She obviously has a problem. My sister is a school teacher that works with kids with issues. I sat in on her class, and she had a kid that acted just like that. The kid probably missed a dose of her meds to calm her down.
Either let the school discipline the kid, or let them kick her out. There are kids there who are able to behave, and the school shouldn’t be wasting its time on brats like this. Handcuffing was over the top… they could have easily just each grabbed one of her arms.
Is it just me or does it seem to anybody else like the government of Florida is just out of control? Black is the new pink and Florida is the new California.
Rob and others with similar comments about the handcuffing of the child when she was found to be “sitting calmly in her seat” (and yet then handcuffed)…
Her earlier and highly observed behavior was very bad, very violent. Once observed as being capable of such an outburst, there’s a liklihood that it will happen again (d’oh). Thus, given the violence involved, restraining anyone — child or adult — is reasonable to both prevent further harms to herself and/or to others.
In other words, whether found calm or not, it’s the potential that’s already been established by people displaying that level of violence: that they can and have and are likely to do so again and for similar unprovoked reasons.
Thus, restraining them inorder to, particualrly, move them somewhere else (more restrictive, less vulnerable to their outbursts, like jail or some equally closed/cloistered area) is sensible for all concerned, and particularly the person themself.
The level of violence that the child enacted was extraordinary, for whatever reason. It’s important not to underestimate that, the extreme nature of her behavior and under what circumstances — in other words, her violent response in no way is related to any harms or threats or circumstances in which she was prior to the outburst (thus, I describe her outburst as being “extraordinary” and “extreme” — it bears no correlation to any cause or reason other than reflects her inner disorganization of whatever motivation or kind).
I can’t begin to comment on WHY the child acted this way (no one can unless they know a great deal about her and her environment), but, for anyone just walking into a situation like that, you can’t project what YOUR children do or would or will do in similar circumstances (most will not be engaging in outbursts even approaching the severity that this child displayed), what YOU would do as parent with your own children even if they’d behaved like that, you just have to do what is best at that moment for the child, others present and yourself: prevent further harms to any and all and yourself.
So, restraining the child, under these circumstances, is and was appropriate. She may have been found “sitting calmly in her seat” when the police entered the room, but there is no likely way to predict what she would do when if the police left or were not present — meaning, she’s displayed cause to be restrained and it was the responsible thing to do to ensure the safety of all concerned.
I hope that this child gets the counselling she so obviously requires (d’oh) and any competent counselling will also include her parents.
Sometimes people have psychiatric problems, sometimes physiological ones, sometimes behavioral, but without evaluating her for whatever her situation is, you can’t speculate beyond the immediate circumstances.
I’ve seen people with schizophrenia go from “sitting quietly in their seat” in even highly sophisticated circumstances to suddenly and without provocation go completely raving mad, inflict potentially fatal harms upon others. And then quickly return to the “sitting quietly in their seat” afterward, with no explanation as to why, or willingness to explain why.
There really ARE people with that level of profound problem and just because a person is a child does not make the problem excusable. I think the child, in this situation, is indicating that she has profound disturbance and needs medical care.
And, the police handled the situation competently as to what’s observable on that tape.