[full rant mode on]
You know I’m as partisan as the next guy… no strike that… I’m for more partisan than most. But why the HELL is Terri Schiavo a partisan issue???
It is simple. Some people want to take away her food and let her die and the other side does not. Why on EARTH do the Democrats do this dumb shit???
Schiavo Kin Wants Feeding Tube Reinserted
PINELLAS PARK, Fla. (AP) – Hanging their hopes on a last-minute compromise in Congress, Terri Schiavo’s parents notified her hospice to prepare to have her feeding tube reinserted on Sunday, her third day without food or water.
Yet it now appears that move could not happen before Monday, at the earliest.
A bill aimed at prolonging the severely brain-damaged woman’s life was delayed in Washington when House Democrats blocked a voice vote, forcing Republicans to scramble on Palm Sunday for a quorum of 218 members. A roll call vote could be held as early as 12:01 a.m. Monday, House leaders said.
So if you are a Democrat your value system works like this….
Unborn Child? Kill It.
Sick Woman? Kill it.
Convicted Murder on death row? Do every thing you can do to save it!
And yet the Democrats WONDER why the American people don’t vote for them. It’s because they are screwed in the head.. that’s why!
Why don’t for once in their lives the Democrats just sit down and shut the hell up!?!?!?!
[full rant mode suspended… not off]
Update Let me add what annoys me most… It is not like the Republicans don’t have the votes, they do… The Dems know that so they are now playing procedural games to try to kill this woman. Why is having this woman die so important to the Democrats that they will go to extraordinary lengths to see it happen?
I’ll tell you why… to the Democrats, Terry Schiavo is being sacrificed on the alter of abortion.
I hope you’ll start using those facts you’re crowing so much about.
I didn’t crow about facts, Jinx, Darleen did. And I responded to her claim that no rehab or therapy took place. The fact that there was a malpractice settlement was not in dispute. Thanks for playing, though.
Actually the court document I read last night (I think it may have been one you linked to mantis) indicated that there wasn’t any therapy in her medical records after Feb 1993 which was a few months after the settlement money arrived.
It wasn’t long after that the DNR order was put in place (which I am fine with) and not much longer after that, when Michael opted to not have her infection treated (thankfully the docs didn’t let him get away with that one, and he backed off and allowed her to be treated).
After he lived with his new girlfriend for a couple of years, is when he opted to have her tube removed, and the court stuff started. He made it plain that he intended to marry his live in girlfriend as soon as Terri was dead.
Terri’s guardian ad litem indicated that there wasn’t clear and convincing evidence that she wanted to die and recomended against removing the tube. Greer opted to not listen to this opinion, but that has been the only representation Terri has had representing her interests through all of this.
I think there is something screwy when a man who has two major conflicts of interest wants to kill his wife, and she doesn’t have anyone representing her.
Our system actually is screwy, and I would say legislators should make the effort to correct this right now, so that in cases where there is no written directive and a dispute over the wishes of the incapacitated person, that that incapacitated person at the very least be afforded their own counsel to represent their interests in the case.
Mantis also you should mention that the Schindler’s indicate that the dispute was over the fact that Michael had received this settlement for Terri’s therapy, but no therapy was being done.
That is in the record as well.
Michael after this point was denying them access to their daughter, and doing all kinds of freaky things about her care (like the denial of antibiotics for an infection).
Mantis: Thanks for the link. Interesting. Please, more dialog.
There are numerous allegations of Mr. Schiavo’s comtempt for his wife and disregard for her care. Statements such as “when is the bitch going to die” or “I’m going to have fun spending the money when she’s finally gone”, etc. Actions such as berating caregivers for doing kindly things like opening the curtains or personal hygiene such as cleaning her teeth (you must be aware that she lost numerous teeth due to decay….something that would not have happened if proper care was given). I could go on and on with these allegations but you get the drift. There are sworn statements (affidavits) to this effect from at least three of her former caregivers and direct statements from the first woman Mr. Schiavo “dated” after the “accident”. If you insist, I will dig out the links to these items, but I’m guessing you’ve seen them.
You seem to have done your homework; Are these allegations all (or mostly) false? Urban legends? Lies by disgruntled employess or jilted lovers?
This is all about balance of power. The judiciary branch has run wild and usurped authority it never had — intruding wildly into the domain of the legislative branch. As a result, drastic new measures are needed to correct the errors of said judiciary. That’s what the Republicans are up to with Terry. They’re using their constitutionally given powers to balance out the abuse of judiciary power assumed by Greet and his ilk.
RE: Beth’s post (March 20, 2005 06:22 PM)
I’m not comfortable with starvation either though I’ve heard that the pain from it varies from non-existent to extreme. Until technology improves and we can identify and tap the neural center with an electrode and know that the visualized firings correlate directly with sensation of trauma/pain, we are flying blind. Some day that will change – that day has not yet arrived.
I’ve also read about the interpretations of current data and the value assigned to it and the supplemental tests not performed and their relative merit to drawing a more coherent conclusion. This too is gray. Some say it advances nothing. Others say it may be corroborative. Still others say that any interpretation would remain gray. Even others say that no matter what the results conclude, there is still hope that miraculous regenerative neural growth will spontaneously reconnect in that cortex which remains and become functional – an anabolic reformation of dendrites and myelin, so to speak. I figure no matter the outcome, especially if they confirm all of the other tests, the Shindler’s will want more tests or rely on hope of some future (new and improved) tests.
If I were in her shoes, I would prefer not to starve and would want my significant others, after following my defined guidelines, to medicate me heavily even to the point of death if necessary. In Florida intentional sedation to that degree is not an option though accidental might be. Officially, starvation is the only option for cases like T. Schiavo’s.
I agree that Mrs. Schiavo deserves more consideration than some ruthless criminal. I just think that the proceedings over the past 15 years have been adequate. We’ll just have to agree to disagree with our respective conclusions.
I’m sorry but I’m not going to enter the debate of eugenics and Nazi’s.
I understand your sentiment of “strict anti-interventionist ideology” and a perception of it trumping life. I, however, disagree with this assessment. I view this as a respect for the life of the “victim” with the most honorable intent of helping them exist, or not exist, according to their last cogent wishes. We, as individuals and entities unique, have an innate right to decide our fate, and no outside force is entitled to supercede. I have made my wishes explicitly clear and will live and die according to them should such a tragedy occur. I expect my loved ones to respect and fulfill that wish and fight on my behalf those that would interfere. No other institution should deny me of my essence however desirous that they may be that I “live” according to some politically transient dictate.
You are wise to be cynical, even of Brit Hume’s panel. 🙂 I saw the episode to which you refer. However, coma and PVS are quite different, as you are aware, with coma being the “better” state of existence, which you may not be. As I understand, a coma patient may spontaneously “revert” to normal… a PVS patient will not (the cerebral cells are actually dead, atrophying, and becoming quite literally mush to the point of liquefaction as normal immunological processes catabolyze the cells and a sinus created).
I respect you position.
I haven’t seen the affidavits from former caregivers, but I did see the deposition the ex-girlfriend made. That testimony was pretty damning, I’ll say, but it seems strange to me that she waited for so long to say anything, claiming she was afraid of Michael. Ok, but was she really so afraid that it took her 9 years to come forward? As far as former nurses and caregivers, I would like to look at the affidavits, but I have seen the report of one guardian ad litem and references to the other two saying that Terri has received excellent care (with the second one citing a possible conflict of interest for Michael). It seems that in a case like this that is highly contested and having been drawn out over many years, for every person you find saying one thing, there’s another saying the opposite (doctors, nurses, friends, relatives, etc.) So, I can’t say at all whether things on either side are lies or mistakes. I would hesitate to say anyone is lying deliberately, but with all the conflicting testimony, there has to be someone not telling the truth, if not many people. And people certainly do have a point about the timeliness of the malpractice settlements and Michael’s refusal to pursue therapy (I’ve noted before that there was already a lot of therapy, and it is entirely conceivable that Michael listened to doctors who said any more would be pointless).
For the record, I personally agree with Just Me that the most best thing that could happen here would be for Michael to relinquish guardianship to Terri’s parents so they can care for her as they want to. They are the only people here that I really feel sorry for, even though I believe they are holding on to something that isn’t there anymore. However, if Michael will not do that, I certainly don’t think Congress should be getting involved.
Mantis: I’ll get the links re caregivers affidavits here in a few. Thanks….I’m guessing we agree on more that we disagree.
RE: Darleen’s post (March 20, 2005 06:26 PM)
I hate to get in the weeds again but I guess I have to for the moment. I won’t stay long.
If Greer arrived at his finding of fact through prejudice … ie my example of tossing out DNA just to maintain the original verdict … should other review be precluded??
Good question. Provedly prejudiced ruling? Grievous procedural error? Then a review would be in order. But is that not what the appellate at all levels should have and did address?
Did the definition of “standard” change? Is the standard a fixed one, or was it one that could have been a malleable guide to care? Quite often an entire battery of optional (even redundant) tests are available and the particular diagnostic tool may be selected at the physician’s discretion. Sometimes those options are determined by the patient and his/her health plan since the insurance may only reimburse for one particular test. Other times a regime of care may differ according to the whims of contemporaneous topical literature or as technology evolves. I always remember that the practice of medicine remains just that and there is a heavy reliance on imperfect judgements from the profession. There may even be agreement that extra tests provide no other useful information and eenie-meenie-minie-moe is the doctor’s order for the day.
My point is that what may seem prejudicial may not be but is actually a reflection of differing medical opinions and procedures. A judge sometimes has to trust that what the doctors have already performed and presented is adequate and that their medical knowledge supercedes his/her own. A contrarian position to the one taken by a judge may be only that… contrarian.
If Michael Schiavo was only pulling life support like a respirator, or heart pump, I could agree with him to stop life support. The only life support Terri needs is food.
We prosecute, and sentence, people who starve to death, animals and children in other cases. How is Terri different?
Let the woman live in the loving care of her parents. They brought her into the world, let them have her exit in their control, with love and caring.
Mantis: Here are the links, sorry my HTML is too ignorant to create hyperlinks. Would appreciate your comments on them.
This is disgusting and disgraceful.
Democrats should be ashamed of themselves for their actions on this issue.
Oh, by the way. I had a 46 year-old brother, that was in the VA hospital in Tuskeegee, AL. My brother had early onset Alzheimers, rampant in my family. They (the VA hospital), decided, on their own, to withhold nutrition. He was a drain on their budget, so they killed him!
God bless Terri’s parents for trying to save her and allow her to die naturally, (nutrition until her body gives away on its own.)
Consider that DNA testing has enormously improved over the past 10 years.
Should the changing standard of DNA evaluation where it could be exculpatory to the defendant convicted 15 years ago allow the trial judge to bar it?
Uh. No. It wouldn’t. And there are many cases of convicted felons freed and exonerated due to the improved methods of DNA testing.
Should not Terri be afforded equivalent right before the court to medical advances leaving aside she isn’t even a convicted felon?
Or do we take “Dr” Cranford’s “standard”, readily embraced by Greer, that individuals such as Terri deserve no standing before the court because she is now an “animal” and has no “personhood”?
Gee, I wonder how many Dems (and many of the readers here and “the majority of Americans” according to Brian) had any “life support” today?
My family just returned from a lovely “life support” meal at Taco Bell.
If Terri were on a machine to control her breathing and Michael stated that she wouldn’t want to live by artificial means, the machine could be disconected and she would die. Period. Same with various other machines.
She was simply being FED, you morons. NOURISHMENT. What is so hard to understand about this???
I actually considered denying my own “life support” (aka. a hunger strike) when they removed her feeding tube. My husband convinced me not to because we have children who need me.
I finally agree that we are in a values war in this country and I am afraid of the direction we are headed.
The only bright light has been watching the hypocritical Dems getting all bent out of shape over “states rights” in relation to an issue of life.
Hmmmmm…..might that apply elsewhere?
RE: Darleen’s post (March 20, 2005 08:26 PM)
About the advances in DNA isolation and identification:
A significantly improved test that can prove conclusively (at least as conclusively as scientific method may allow) one thing or another would seem reasonable. The tests for Schiavo, however, will not provide such a degree of conclusivity. In view of the absence of behavioral improvement, the continued testing seems futile. I can see the argument shifting that PVS patients should be continually kept alive (against their wishes by outside parties) until technology improves or a better test can be tweaked to detect subtle changes that, in the minds of the most hopeful, will inevitably occur.
I’m afraid my position in this regard still stands.
I have some questions for you with a broader scope in mind. Are you prepared to allow such retrials at the Federal level for every case? Remember that one-half of all litigants lose. Can the loser at this new venue appeal again? How many times? What restrictions are you prepared or not prepared to enact to limit this expansion of government interference? Should we just abolish State law since Federal can create a new trump at any point? If this is indeed restricted to Schiavo only, how would you ensure that this precedent won’t be engaged again? Do you see explicit restraint in the current Legislative wording that satisfies you adequately? Do you find this law’s creation to be a benign one?
At 3:33p Brian wrote:
“Outside of Congress, this is not a partisan issue. 65% of Americans think Michael should be making the decisions for Terri. Only 2-4% think the government should be. 87% of Americans would not want to be kept alive if they were in Terri’s condition. 59% think Terri’s feeding tube should be removed. 74% would want their own guardian to remove the tube.
You think the way to settle things is for Democrats to sit down and shut up. But you fail to see that things would be more properly settled if the Republicans would, instead, sit down and shut the hell up.
You’re upset the Democrats blocked a vote, forcing Republicans to scramble? Well let’s have the Republicans stop scrambling, and then the Democrats won’t have to block a vote.
You’re way out of the mainstream on this one.
RePosted by: Brian at March 20, 2005 03:33 PM”
THIS IS MY RESPONSE:
I also agree that Michael Schiavo should, under normal circumstances be making decisions for Terri and find it very disheartening that it appears as if he has acted in ways that placed Terri in harm’s way and has refused therapy for the past 10 years that had shown to be helping her. Unfortunately, there is so much evidence that Mr. Schiavo has not been acting in Terri’s best interests and may have even attempted to kill her. Therefore, until this investigated, he should be relieved of his guardianship role. If I honestly answer a poll that asks me do you think Michael Schiavo should be making the decisions for Terri, well the answer is yes, he should because there is no clause in the question to adjust my answer to say YES, except in the following cases…. Do you see Brian, how any the answer to poll can be slanted by the wording of the question? Polls can either intentionally or unintentionally put a spin on things. Use your brain, Brian. Unless you also know what questions was asked and deem it reasonable free of generating a skewed response, you can’t make any poll seriously.
And I agree that No, I don’t think the government should be involved and I’m sorry that it is forced to be.
RE: 87% of Americans apparently said they wouldn’t want to be kept alive if they were in Terri’s condition. From 100s of blogs I’ve read, I don’t think even 50% of the American people –who blog anyway– understand what condition Terri is presently in (let alone the neurologiests) and would they still feel the same way if they could improve with the proper rehabilitation?
RE: 59% of Americans think Teri’s tube should be removed… same answer as above.
RE: 64% of Americans would want their spouse to remove the tub…same answer as above.
Any Democrat or Republican who bases their decision on how to vote on the Terri’s law bill on polls with no known standard of quality, does not meet my standards for being my represntative.
Wow, those are very strange. From those reports there was an environment of fear in that facility brought on by Michael Schiavo. I would tend to believe nurses about the daily habits of patients over doctors as they have much more contact, so these statements are of considerable concern. It’s very strange that they say they heard her speak words, as I have also seen images of Terri’s CT scan, which seem to show that much if not all of her cerebral cortex is now fluid (I’m no doctor, though), and if that’s is true she would not be able to speak.
Also I’ve looked at the 2nd guardian ad litem’s report (1999), which recommends rejecting Michael’s request. I wonder how many people he spoke to about Terri’s wishes, as he cites only Michael, but the next year his brother and sister-in-law corroborated his assertions in court that she would not want to be kept alive. Greer granted Michael’s petition to have dismiss the guardian ad litem and assumed the role of her guardian himself, something which many people protest but as far as I know is within his power to do (it was upheld by the appeals court).
I also stumbled upon this letter that the Schindler’s sent to Michael after he denied them access to Terri following their fight/argument in 1993 (not long after the award of malpractice money). While whoever had guardianship of Terri had the potential to receive a lot of money, it does seem after reviewing those affidavits and other documents that Michael was pretty anxious for her to die, while the parents wanted her to live (forgive me if that is obvious to some of you).
How do you feel about the fact that Terri hasn’t had a continuous Guardian ad Litem? How do you feel about the fact that the one in her 1998 case, recomended against removal of the feeding tube, and the most recent recomended 1)that she be given new tests and 2) that she be given a permanent GAL?
Do you think these things should have been done before the removal of the tube?
I don’t know, I honestly don’t see what is being gained in this, Terri has parents that want to care for her, she has a husband that all but abandoned her 10 years ago (and frankly, if my husband took up with another woman, I would not consider him my husband any longer, whether I was disabled or not). I think that is one aspect of this case that bothers me. That the man decided to move on with his life, but wanted to still be in control of Terri. Moving on was his decision, but he should have moved on, and let Terri’s parents take her.
Re AnonymousDrivel’s post at March 20, 2005 09:00 PM:
You did not ask me, but please allow my response to your broader questions. I would simply answer that the legal process/protections afforded an innocent person, such as Ms. Schiavo, be no less that that provided to, say, the rapist/murderer of a young child. Fair enough?
Please read this
In the course of my conversation with Dr. Morin, he made reference to the standard use of MRI and PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scans to diagnose the extent of brain injuries. He seemed to assume that these had been done for Terri. I stopped him and told him that these tests have never been done for her; that Michael had refused them.
There was a moment of dead silence.
“That’s criminal,” he said, and then asked, in a tone of utter incredulity: “How can he continue as guardian? People are deliberating over this woman’s life and death and there’s been no MRI or PET?” He drew a reasonable conclusion: “These people [Michael Schiavo, George Felos, and Judge Greer] don’t want the information.”
Dr. Morin explained that he would feel obligated to obtain the information in these tests before making a diagnosis with life and death consequences. I told him that CT (Computer-Aided Tomography) scans had been done, and were partly the basis for the finding of PVS. The doctor retorted, “Spare no expense, eh?” I asked him to explain the comment; he said that a CT scan is a much less expensive test than an MRI, but it “only gives you a tenth of the information an MRI does.” He added, “A CT scan is useful only in pretty severe cases, such as trauma, and also during the few days after an anoxic (lack of oxygen) brain injury. It’s useful in an emergency-room setting. But if the question is ischemic injury [brain damage caused by lack of blood/oxygen to part of the brain] you want an MRI and PET. For subsequent evaluation of brain injury, the CT is pretty useless unless there has been a massive stroke.”
RE: Just Me and Old Coot:
I’m afraid I’m stepping out of this thread because the weeds are getting too high. I can’t spend this much time debating every single point since so much of this is just a merry-go-round of regurgitation.
It’s not that you don’t bring up good and worthy points. It’s just that I have waxed however ineloquently long enough to state my position and you have stated yours. For every point you mention, I could elaborate at length a rebuttal and the redundancy would persist. Then Wizbang will post anew and we’ll rehash these never ending specifics (with complementary misinformation from other latecomers) again in the hopes that our respective positions regarding T. Schiavo will change. (I happen to think these continued postings are now a conspiracy to drive up traffic. ;))
My longwindedness has finally gotten the better of me and these specifics have been debated to death. I’m bowing out for a while.
Special apologies to Old Coot. Bad timing I’m afraid. I’ll simply answer OK. I hope that Darlene will still provide an answer and one that is a bit more, how do I put this without offending, considered. 🙂
Oops, sorry Darleen. My typing is pretty bad.
Why are liberals/democrats such sick, heartless, demented, F–KS!!!! ???(Brian, etc. etc. etc.) (sigh)- it’s useless to reason with them. They never get anything. Thats right,- smile-you sick bastards.
I believe these kinda attitudes are ultimately gonna finish you all off. 🙂
The New York Times is calling death by starvation/dehydration “peaceful,” “gentle,” and “dignified,” and that it causes “little discomfort.”
N.Y. Times: Starvation Death Not Painful (Newsmax)
I too am outta here. Kids need bedtime stories. I need sleep. Thanks all.
Ok, I’m disturbed by your statement
The tests for Schiavo, however, will not provide such a degree of conclusivity.
If we accept that Terri’s condition came about by oxygen depravation, then the ONLY medical testing done at the time, a CT scan, is notoriously inadequate. Protocol demands MRI and PET to even begin the mulitidisciplinary evaluation of a person for PVS. Even under ideal conditions there is a HIGH risk of misdiagnosis (43% error rater per 1996 British Med Journal study). The misdiagnosis has a high contributing factor based on length of time the specialist spends with the patient.
Cranford spent 45 minutes “evaluating” Terri.
She is being railroaded into a death sentence without even the minimal protection that a convicted murderer gets.
WTH is wrong with the “kill Terri” contingent?
SOON I WILL NOT EVEN BE BOTHERING WITH THIS SITE OR THIS SUBJECT ANY LONGER BECAUSE YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. I DO. I’VE BEEN IN THAT SITUATION. AND AFTER 20 YEARS, SHE IS NOT EVER GOING TO BE COMING OUT OF HER VEGETATIVE STATE. HER FAMILY SHOULD JUST SAY GOODBYE AND HAVE CLOSURE.
Cindy, then don’t bother reading these comments, I stay completely out of the debate because I don’t know squat.
I’ve seen you comment on everything all over the blogosphere. Is there ANYTHING you haven’t claimed to know personally? Sorry, you’re full of BS and have no idea what you’re talking about. This isn’t about you (nor are the infinite number of other topics you claim to be involved in) so don’t think you automatically know WTF is going on. WHY don’t you get your own blog and see how many people give a rat’s ass about your claims to have personal knowledge of everything?
Why don’t you do like Henry and not comment since you OBVIOUSLY DON’T KNOW JACK ABOUT THIS CASE.
Think I’m wrong? Google “firstbrokenangel”.
Old Coot wrote:
However If those who responded to the poll you cling to had even basic knowledge of the facts of this case, the results would not please you
Well, a majority of those responding to the polls say they they are following the case “closely”, so I would assume they have “basic knowledge of the facts”. But you can keep calling the general population stupid because they don’t agree with your values.
My understanding is that Mr. Schiavo was given in trust a rather large sum of money for his wife’s rehabilitation. This intense effort at rehabilitation was never initiated. Where has the money gone?
He was given the money in 1992. He first attempted to have her tube removed in 1998. For those six years, and in the years since, the money was spent on her care.
Brian, you ignorant tool,
The only reason why the polls are as they are is because most people are as ignorant of the facts about Terri as you are.
The poll respondants say otherwise, and most say they are following the case “closely”. I suppose they are too ignorant to know that you know how ignorant they are.
I rarely, if ever, disagree with anything posted here. But I don’t agree with one tiny bit of your thinking here.
This is one of the saddest situations a family could face, and to have every pundit, pontificater and politician using BOTH sides of the case to further their own causes is sick.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT REGARDING
I, like many of other people, have voiced my opinion to friends, family and co-worker’s regarding the Terri Schiavo case. After listening to all the controversy in the media, I decided to send this e-mail in hopes that it may just have some impact on Terri Schiavo’s right to live.
In this message, I am going to refer to some true examples to make my point, but in order to protect the privacy of those involved, I will not mention names.
#1. WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO DETERMINE THE QUALITY OF LIFE?
I believe there is a huge difference from someone who is being kept alive on a respirator verses a feeding tube. If this was the case for Terri Schiavo, or if Terri was indeed in a coma and could not respond to anything, then again I may be more apt to side with the husband and emphasize with him. But Terri is a living, breathing human being that can look around, smile, laugh and feel. She is not a vegetable, no more than someone with mental retardation is.
I have a cousin who has twin daughters. This first girl was born normal. The second was born blind and with cerebral Palsy. H. was only given a few months to live after she was born, but today she is 23 years old. My cousin has dedicated her life to taking care of this child. H. cannot read, write, speak, sing, run, dance, play, sit up or even eat. That’s right. H. also has a feeding tube. Every time I see Terri Schiavo on TV, I think of her and wonder how this controversy must be affecting my cousin and the million of other parents who have disabled children. The difference between Terri Schiavo and H. is, H. never was able to do any of these things. At 23 years old, she is still very much like an infant; only she now weighs about 80 pounds. And just like an infant, H. knows when someone enters the room and talks to her. She recognizes her mother and twin sister’s voices and the sound of their footsteps. She smiles and let’s out a squeal of glee that we all have come to recognize, love and welcome. H. also cries when she hurts and has feelings just like an infant. We all love her, talk to her, buy her gifts…just like you would an infant. WOULD YOU LET AN INFANT “STARVE TO DEATH” JUST BECAUSE IT CANNOT TALK TO YOU, and interact with you?
What if my cousin would decide after 23 years that she is tired of taking care of H.? What if the parent’s of any physically and mentally handicap child decide they don’t want to be bothered, do they have the right to make the decision to just “murder” the victim so they can move on? That is what they are doing to Terri Schiavo. They are starving her to death. Wouldn’t be more humane to use Euthanasia if the courts decide she does not have a right to live?
#2. We have laws and groups that protect animals. We can be fined or go to jail if we let an animal starve to death. Doesn’t Terri Schiavo deserve as much compassion?
In the case of deliberate cruelty or neglect, humane officers are empowered to enforce the anti-cruelty laws, press charges and take custody of mistreated and abused animals. By caring enough about an animal to call for help, you have taken the first step toward helping people learn how to become more responsible pet caregivers, or removing an animal from an abusive or life-threatening situation.
#3. If Terri Schiavo’s husband is allowed to determine Terri’s fate, then how will this effect abortion rights or Dr. Kovorkian’s methods of using Euthanasia for assisted suicides? Is Terri Schiavo less of a human being than a fetus or is her condition terminal?
#4. If Terri Schiavo’s husband is not in this for the money, then why doesn’t he just divorce her and move on with his life and his mistress?
#5. If we can consider a bill to let ‘discarded’ kid’s divorce their parents so they can gain medical coverage and housing, Is it possible the Terri Schiavo’s parent’s can divorce Terri’s husband or “ANUL” her marriage, thus letting the husband move on to remarry his mistress?
2 February 2005
NEW BILL COULD LET KIDS DIVORCE PARENTS
A new bill before the state legislature would help kids legally divorce their families. But advocates say these kids have already been thrown out by their parents and almost everyone else.
(KSL News) — A new bill before the state legislature would help kids who’ve been “thrown away” by their families. The bill allows kids 16 and older to emancipate themselves to get medical care and housing.
Some of the so-called “throw-away kids” include foster care kids, teenagers who’ve come out as gay or lesbian and kids who’ve left polygamy.
Lynette Phillips says the bill is meant to help kids in serious situations. “We’re not looking at kids who want to take the car for the night and get mad at their parents and want to go to court to get divorced from their parents. You’re looking at kids already living on the street that have a history of homelessness and have a need to qualify for medical and housing services that they couldn’t otherwise qualify for.”
However the bill may not be passed with ease this session because some lawmakers have raised concern about parental rights.
You realize that the reason why most people disagree with this, is because a bunch of people would rather starve to death that be paraded about like a meat puppet by parents who don’t care what their daughter’s wishes were? I know I wouldn’t if I were beyond all hope, which is what Terri is. She’s got a brainstem left and a bunch of spinal fluid where her brain has atrophied. The reason why she still jerks around and can breathe is because the part of her brain that regulates autonomous functions is still there.
Her parent’s story has been changing over the years as they get more and more desperate – they’ve made it clear in testimony that even if Terri had written instructions that have the tube pulled, if they were her guadians they wouldn’t because her being alive “brought them joy.” That’s disgusting and a violation of her rights.
And all you people calling M. Schiavo a dirtbag – he’s denied several offers to give up guardianship for millions, he used most of the malpractice settlement to carry on and try rehabilitative procedures for 8 years before it was clear there was no hope. He won’t divorce her because he, like several of her friends, agree that it was her wish not to be kept alive like this. He is determined to carry out her wishes, not give her over to a bunch of wackos that will still be poking and prodding her and parading her about in the indignity of her situation.
Also, it’s not just one or two judges that are “railroading” her into death, it’s nearly 20 judges over 15 years and many, many medical experts that the Schindlers, the Schiavos, and the Courts have had examine her. It’s not like they took the word of one doctor and decided to pull to plug.
And before you start whining about death-penalty appeals, yes I’m pro-death penalty, and no they don’t get congressional intervention after exhausting the appeals process and then still get denied.
And as for Pres. Bush being a moral man? HA. He should be ashamed of himself for signing into law the Texas futile care act, an action which contradicts all of his political grandstanding on this subject.
Really, the republicans all are miserable wastes of air for using a difficult end-of-life decision for political gain.
And to those of you saying you’ve followed the case closely – Have you bothered to look over the court and medical records? Have you compared her CT scans to those of normal people and to other people in comas? Have you made yourself aware of the full appeals process the Schindlers have gone through? The evidence presented? What do you know about the seperation of powers? Have you checked the backgrounds on the “medical experts” both sides are using? The politics of the judges involved and similar rulings in case law? Seriously, I doubt many of you have at all – you’re just repeating what you’ve been told from whatever source instead of actually doing some research to make an informed opinion.
Most republicans, I should say. Sen. John Warner from Virginia did not vote for this action because he thought it was a violation of state’s rights, seperation of powers, and meddling in a personal affair. Him and others like him get respect from me for not going with the majority of their party on this.
Terri Schiavo was a stupid bitch, who was SO vain she turned herself into that goddamn vegetable she is now. So as a Democrat, a tax payer and most of all, an asshole; I say smother the bitch, let her die. Take the $85,000 a year the tax payers are forking over to keep a bitch who wanted to STARVE, and hand it to someone more noble like local food pantries. Places where people WANT to eat, and are starving not because of vanity, but because of shear hunger and joblessness that this piece of shit Republican ran Bush Administration has brought upon this country. You people want to make this a political issue? Fine, Fuck the Republican piece of shit so-called holy rolling, evangelicals and 86 this stupid fucking vegetable, to better the economy!
Why is it that common, logical, analytical sense has failed most Americans? What eyes are they seeing from…and what words do their ears hear??
Ignorance is bliss must hold true since 9/11.
Didn’t you sift thru the B.S. by the federal gov’t
and did you just hear, but not listen to Terry’s family? Why do republicans blame democrats for T.S life? Because they weren’t all there to do a voice vote on the subject–WHY NOT?
There’s D___A__es stating: (1) the Dems blocked the voice vote, so the Reps could bring their butts in for a physical vote by procedure –ya darn right, if it was THAT IMPORTANT to Dems then it should have been to Reps no matter WHAT DAY it was–Bush came in, to sign.
(3rd day of no food); (2) Reps control the votes
–BUT APPARENTLY, the 4th day the bill drowned–by who votes–Reps!
(3) T.S. family SAID, “Govenor BUSH–Republican-had the power of decision to halt the removal and the final voice to approve the reinsertment of the feeding tube!
But REPUBLICAN GOV. BUSH of Fla. stated he did not want ANYTHING to do with it AND it was out of his hands. Well DAMN, maybe HE is a closet democrat, huh? So, IGs, stop the CRAP to blame someone–if it was up to REPS ALL our children would be disabled or dead because they like to play GI JOE in some foreign land that THEIR CHILDREN won’t ever go–it must be due to their loyalty to their country, huh!? It’s going on 14 days for Terry, REPS stop STAVING her, the highest court officials WHO KEEP ALLOWING HER TO DIE was placed in judicial office by A GOOD ole boy, down south, REPUBLICAN OR did your common sense die on 9/11 also. Next time stand in the correct line, since fear and manipulation can SO EASILY blind you, and SO EASILY make you lose ALL sense of analyzing what is TOO CLOSE to your faces.
Every fiber of my being is appalled that we are thinking about burying Terry Schiavo. Shouldn’t we keep her on a slab in Tallahassee, or somewhere equally holy (if there is a place as holy as Tallahassee), until the second coming? Surely she will be Jesus’ first priority when he comes back, and we need to make sure she is accessible. Do I hear an amen?
I actively opposed and continue to oppose “assisted suicide” here in Oregon. However, the situation of Schiavo was not a good instance in which to stake a stand against it. Plus, the way it was handled actually worked against the issues we need to be concerned about, especially the attempt to label the husband a murdered because he did not nail down the exact time he called 9-1-1. I have never done so, and never will, when calling 9-1-1. There is absolutely no need to. The record does that.