Well, it’s almost 9, and time for Bush and Kerry to square off. The expectations game has been played pretty thoroughly; both campaigns have been running down the expectations for their own guy, while praising their opponents. It’s actually a refreshing change of pace from them beating up each other.
I think I’m gonna watch it on C-SPAN. I gave them my attention during the RNC, and they did a pretty good job then. Ah, the joys of cable… so many choices.
(Updated as the spirit moves me)
J.
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I’m busy so you’re flying solo
Darn CSPAN online is worthelss. Audio breaking up.
So, Kerry is saying there WERE WMDs in Irag? Or there now are? Interesting assertion in any case, and dangerous for him to be making unless he knows there’s something about to break in the news, and he’s trying to get ahead of it.
Agent Orange is still trying to to make Homeland security a police and fire department job, his emphasis on trying to make it that scares me. I don’t want to see his vaunted “first reponders” utilized, at least not here. I guess his plans are banking heavily on needing their services.
yo dude extended entry!
Paul, you said you were sitting this one out. No back-seat blogging! Go find some more journalistic institutions to destroy, will ya?
Seriously… once it’s over, I’ll move ALL the updates to the extended section. I’m typing as fast as I can here…
J.
At 9:51 eastern I have counted 6 references to Vietnam. I estimated he’d go 15 for the night.
I hope Kerry does comment on “nukular.” A lot of Americans in the heart say it that way. My dad said it that way as much as I tried to correct him, and he had two advanced degrees.
Bush is not looking good here. i love the man, but Kerry has his words down better and Bush keeps thinking of what he is going to say. Regardless of right, perception is reality.
Bush needs to pull it together; he is on the defense here. Too many ums and looking like he is lost for words to articulate his position.
Richard
I’m voting Bush, and he’s ahead on substance, but Kerry’s ahead on technique. His delivery is better, he has more specifics, and he’s quicker. Bush is sincere, but he’s repeating the same 4 generalities over and over.
Bush nailed the “I admire Kerry personally, but . . .” question.
[10:12]
If I hear one more time about mixed messages I will just loose it. We need to move on to new and fresh and less rhetoric.
Richard
We Appreciate the Play By Play! Well done!!
[10:26]
Kerry is smooth. Will this be what turns some people away from Bush? Will the nation see past Bush
Kerry all the way.
Bush looked lost as hell at times.
And what’s up with that weird face twitch when Kerry said something he didn’t like.
Kerry Handed him his ass.
Bush substance? Bah… he totally had nothing else to say in the last 20 minutes or so. Kerry schooled Bush by simply having a better grasp of info.
Thanks J for keeping this by the minutes.
I’m just sorry Bush was not relying on his strengths and seemed to stumble. Kerry was very articulate and we knowledge on his points. Bush failed to give reasons from the point of 9/11.
There were many times I
the President’s repeting himself was a tad annoying. How many times was he going to repeat Kerry’s tag line? (wrong war… yadda yadda) And so was his beating on the podium. He just came off as somewhat loose and rough around the edges. sharp contrast to Kerry’s smoothness. Also, I see why the networks wanted to do the splitscreening, and the Bush team didn’t. He was clearly annoyed with Kerry. (not that I blame him, I mean, you only have a few seconds to refute the rediculous claims Kerry was making, where would you even begin?)
I like the few times that Bush pointed out Kerry’s flip-flopping, but it seems to me he didn’t point out nearly as many flip flops as he could have.
Kerry had Bush on the defensive most of the night. I wish, I just *wish* that Bush would have at some time pointed out Kerry’s hypocracy. That he really has *no* plan for the future, and only plans on doing what ever is most popular. (after all, we can’t decide if the war was a good idea yet or not, because it’s not over yet.)
On the other hand, Kerry was very negative. And people don’t want to hear negative, they want a message of hope, they want a leader who has positive things to say about the future, and Kerry didn’t offer that. Bush is obviously confident about his leadership, it showed.
Kerry all the way? Wow, you must have some TV set. I think Kerry came off as the flim-flam man. All flash and no substance. Americans already knew that about Kerry. Why do you think the more he’s in the news, the lower his poll numbers go? But, Ronny, I think you do bring the MSM perspective to this blog. They’ll all probably say Kerry was excellent and spelled out his position(although in reality not one newsperson will be able to articulate Kerry’s position).
Very Good, Jay!! My arms are killing me from trying to type it word for word but I’ve always liked your insights, as well as your cat, glad you brought him in……good job, just had to say so.
~Cindy
The incumbent will almost always be on the defensive, by definition, especially during a contentious election.
Jim
I agree that if you were to have followed along the way, you would have taken from this that Kerry said nothing but spent many words. However those very same people who are swing points don
Ah, NBC is interviewing six undecided voters. I’ve always wondered what six idiots look like.
So, from what I’ve read here, the consensus is that Kerry won the debate. Oh well. It was nice to think he was going to continue to implode and go home a defeated man to one of his mansions on November 3rd. I guess not. And it’s a shame. Americans will be putting a dishonest, egotistical traitor in the White House. The bright side is that next terrorist attack — and there will be one with Kerry at the helm — I won’t donate a penny to the families of victims. The American people will be partially responsible for any such attack.
David Anderson, I truly disagree with you completely – and some others.
~C
Osama is isolated? Is that winning?
Even William Kristol is giving it to Kerry!!
I thought that G W actually came out of that quite well. Kerry didn’t manage to make the Bush is a liar thing stick because G W made Kerry agree that he had made the same conclusions from the same intelligence. Kerry lost points on his position on North Korea. How can you insist that Bush didn’t have enough nations in the alliance in Iraq, and then insist on unilateral action in North Korea? G W hammered that one home. Watch the editorial writers make the pick up. It also seems that research is not Kerry’s strong point. He wasn’t aware of the members of the Alliance against Iran’s weapons or the government that had imposed the sanctions. (Carter) Kerry also didn’t know what nations were in the Iraq alliance. The editorial writers should pick that up. All in all a G W Bush win in the morning papers.
Stephen Walker
Cindy, thats okay. Differences of opinion are cool. But I think in this case your partisanship is affecting your ability to be openminded. The consensus is pretty broad even among republicans, he got spanked.
He looked confussed and on the defensive all night. I think he would have done better if Rove or Cheney had been able to sit and hold his hand. LOL. Sortta like the 9/11 commission hearings ya know what I mean?
Who won the debate polls:
http://www.cnn.com
http://www.time.com/time/
http://www.msmagazine.com/debate_poll.asp
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6123733/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6028629/ (vote under Polls -> MSNBC)
http://www.nbc5i.com/index.html
http://argusleader.com
http://www.nbc5i.com/index.html
http://argusleader.com
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/
http://nbc25.com/webpoll.asp
http://www.tbo.com/
Well, here are my 2c and I think you all know where I stand at this point in terms of my bias.
First of all to GWB, great negotiating on the debate rules especially the camera angles did not give a height advantage to Kerry. I think the warning lights thing actually backfired on the GWB negotiating team. It actually prevented JFK from being too long winded and forced him to keep it brief.
John Kerry looked well… Presidential and GWB looked like a C student a Yale who did not prepare for his class and showed up repeating the professor’s talking points (many times). I am sure Karl was impressed with his memorization of the talking points.
Dave (the other one)
I just love how the people who comment that Kerry won the debate just can’t help but throw in a couple cheap shots of their own on Bush. You guys should do a better job of hiding your true feelings, and maybe others would take your comments more seriously.
Having said that, Kerry did a better job of being a formal debater, but he didn’t have many specifics, and when he did, most of them will be rejected by many swing voters and will definitely not move anyone away from Bush.
It’s also easier to criticize and be a Monday Morning Quarterback, which is where Kerry was best. He’s great at that, but what is his plan – do what Bush is doing in Iraq but add a summit? Ignore other countries and talk bilaterally with N. Korea? Give Iran nuclear fuel? Get rid of missile defense? No thank you.
And note that the debate was essentially all about Bush – there were no questions about Kerry’s time in the Senate, right?
Bush was less formal in his style, to be sure. If he was trying to talk to “regular folks,” then I suppose he succeeded in that. He could have criticized Kerry more, but didn’t. I don’t know if that was a screw up or the plan.
Bottom line – enough of a good Kerry performance to get the Dems and the MSM excited, but he didn’t knock out Bush. And note that Kerry’s gaffes will be brought up – apparently he has called Bush a “liar” even though tonight he said he hadn’t used that word. And expect the Swiftees to have more to say.
What specifics did Bush give other than “don’t send mixed messages” and “trust me”?
KEEP THIS IN MIND (now and later):
WhenEVER the Democrat spokespeople — whatever their titles — come on discussion meets following ANY Presidential debate and say, repeatedly, “let me finish, will you let me finish, are you going to let me finish here, you’re asking the questions, I’m the guest, I’m supposed to be able to answer your questions, will you let me speak here, are you going to let me answer, am I going to be able to finish my answers here, or…”
THAT MEANS THAT THEY ARE AVOIDING SAYING ANYTHING. It’s a performance thing by which they believe they “seize power before the audience” and such…but it’s still a power play and IT INDICATES A LOSING POSITION.
Keep that in mind. Because, already tonight, I’ve heard that from various Democrat spokespersons of one title or another, on several network after-debate-discussion shows, and the Democrats, although clearly gloating over Kerry’s improved performance early, are revealing their hand. THEY’RE ACTING.
As was Kerry. Polished, well performed: ACTING.
But, the Presidency isn’t about acting, it’s about thinking on your feet, making the moment’s decisions and often when the, umm, audience throws tomatoes at you.
Bush offered a clear indication of his emotional process earlier. Kerry offered a good performance. I like Bush’s transparency better.
The more I think about it, the I honestly believe that if I were an undecided voter, this debate would go a long way to pushing me towards the Bush camp.
Kerry, who came off “physically powerful” and who kept the pressure on Bush throughout the debate failed to score a single point that I can see. His basic message is “I’m not Bush, I would do things differently” but fails to explain on a single point how he would do those things. He also didn’t really address the issue of him being a “flip-flopper” (in all fairness to Kerry, I will admit that its mostly his sound bites that make him sound like he’s switching issues and not his substantive policies), as a matter of fact his stance on Iraq vs. Korea re-enforced that in my mind. He wants a multinational force in Iraq (and makes no mention of how he’s going to accomplish that), but feels that a “bilateral stance” is what is best for North Korea.
The biggest thing that would have pushed me towards the Bush camp however, is his “The Global Test” comment. Mr. Kerry, I cannot elect a person to the highest office in the nation, who is not willing to take unilateral preemptive action to protect me. Its not a sound military strategy, and neither is it a wise move politically. We as a nation cannot, and should not be expected to go hat in hand begging to the United Nations to protect ourselves.
“let me finish, will you let me finish, are you going to let me finish here, you’re asking the questions, I’m the guest, I’m supposed to be able to answer your questions, will you let me speak here, are you going to let me answer, am I going to be able to finish my answers here, or…”
Bush actually said “let me finish” during the debate. He said it right after his little green light went on, not sure why though.
No, David, by friend, I don’t know. I think he handed Kerry his own flat ass. I typed the whole damn thing up as they were talking and let me tell you what came out of Bush’s mouth was a lot smarter, classier, better and all around smoother than anything Kerry had to say – which wasn’t much. Hope you’re over 30, if he becomes President – if he serves his country as a President as he did as a young man, we are in a lot of trouble. I only became partisan, dear, when I learned as much as I did since 9/11 and I still thank God that it was Bush who was in Office and rose to the occasion when that event struck us. Kerry couldn’t win tonight and he will not win in any of the next two debates. Bush has a quiet, easy way about him; Kerry is grating as hell and he never stops to think but says I, I, I, I, I. The Presidency is not based on “I.” All his name dropping and other bullshit is not going to get him the office and I pray for you, your family and your daughter that this man never makes it into the Presidency. I love you, David, but really, think about it.
~Cindy
Fox & Friends says online polls show Kerry winning the debate, but Bush still beating Kerry in the election. They mentioned the poll on CBS’s website.
“The bright side is that next terrorist attack — and there will be one with Kerry at the helm — I won’t donate a penny to the families of victims. The American people will be partially responsible for any such attack.”
No matter whom is president there WILL be another terrorist attack in the U.S. It’s not a question of if but when, no matter who is leading this country. Consider that before making cold statements.
And for the record, I too thought that it was a clear Kerry win. It may not be fair, but ever since the Kennedy/Nixon debate the standard has been that who ever presents himself better wins in the public eye. Like him or not Kerry simply presented himself better.
Couple of things, I didn’t actually watch it, I listened to it on the radio, when I got home I watched a replay of it.
Now then, one of the interesting things that I noticed was when Kerry was talking about a backdoor draft and stop actions keeping people in the military… This directly contradicts his statements later in the debate saying that he is going to ADD 2 more active duty whatever it was he called it.
I like the debate, it was a Bush Victory, but just marginally. I think the following debates when we start talking about domestic issues, The President will really spank clown boy but good. Especially when we get to the tax issue.
Kerry: Bush’s tax cuts let the rich get richer!
I say, I got 1400 bucks in my tax return instead of 700! I don’t know about you, but the Tax cut gave me fistfuls of money instead of pinchfuls.
That I think is the greatest deception of the Democrats: Republicans let the rich get richer.
What the hell man, Doesn’t matter if they get richer or not, They’re ALREADY RICH! Tax cuts let the little guy keep MORE of HIS money and lets the POORGUY get RICHER.
This is the Democrats deception. This is why I vote Republican… When I manage to get out there and vote.
Kerry handed Bush his ass? I guess that’s to Bush’s credit as he saves it for real enemies like terrorists. That’s something the draft dodger from the previous administration didn’t do. It looks like Kerry is willing to follow in sick willie’s footsteps.
Kerry isn’t guaranteeing that he can fight REAL enemies by his past voting record. Not being Bush isn’t a solution. did anyone hear anything about what Kerry would do different? hmmm… He will always be an appeaser. My question is if Kerry gets elected who’s going to hand him HIS ASS? I’m sure he wouldn’t have the courage to fight terrorists.
I’m sticking with the REAL thing.
BUSH/CHENEY 2004!