Interesting move and probably a good one.

::Paul

Focus is good.

::tyree

Does this mean the end of Blue? Please say yes.

::teebo

Goodbye Lee Ward.. Parting is such sweet sorrow.

::914

Does this mean the end of Blue? Please say yes.

Yes.

::Kevin

Does this mean the end of Blue? Please say yes.

Yes.

*sniff, sniff*

Okay, moving on....

::Peter F.

Does that mean Lee will be back here? OMG!!! This ought to be fun.

::1903A3

Getting rid of wizbang blue is a good thing.

::retired military

I kind of liked Blue, as long as it wasn't the screeching insanity of Ward's writing. The other contributers, especially Paul, had some good pieces. It's always good to get other points of view. I'd much rather get those points of view from Blue, instead of say, Kos or DU. Ah well.

::AJ

Oh, god. Here comes Lee Ward, under six or seven pseudonyms. Just when I thought he was safely contained by giving him his own ward in the asylum.

Spittle and bile will be everywhere.

::bobdog

I believe Blue was was good idea. I don't agree with shutting it down. That said, it did have one significant problem and that was Lee Ward.

A better solution to Blue would be to fire Lee and put somebody better in charge. While I disagree with Paul Hoosen on many things, he is intelligent, respectful and not a raving lunatic, in other words not Lee Ward.

I don't know if Paul would want that job, if not there must be a million other Left wingers who could run the site who aren't ignorant asses.

::Eric

Wizbang Blue found wanting
Now for weeping and gnashing
of thy deceitful teeth.

::Jeff Blogworthy

I agree with those above who thought Wizbang Blue served a purpose. Lee Ward was clearly the only significant problem. I feel Paul was making an effort to bring some civility to the site in contrast to Lee's twisted aggressiveness. I like to hear how folks on the left view the world and it was nice to have contrasting philosophies in such close cyber-proximity. Sad really. Maybe Blue can re-invent itself a bit like Sarah Palin (which would be wicked irony for Lee Ward).

::DaveD

I agree w/Eric - Lee's pretty well unhinged. Paul at least is respectful, even if he disagrees, but Lee - hell, look at the wholesale banning he used to do. If you make your opposition unable to respond, you must be right about the issue!

I'll miss the Blue - but as the rule of blogs goes, it's your blog, your decision, and you've got your reasons for it.

::JLawson

Over on the Blue site Paul Hooson wrote the following. . .

Hello Mac. I always appreciate your comments. Looks like I might be writing more of these nonpolitical pieces on the auto industry, Cds, DVDs, etc over at Wizbang Pop as it looks like the site publisher has offered me an invitation to continue to write there.

So it looks like Paul will still be writing his nonpolitical pieces on Wizbang Pop. Thanks Kevin for letting Paul continue in that role.

A while back I told Lee Ward that he needed to find a Section Editor for Wizbang Blue similar to what Maggie Whitton does for Wizbang. If authors of pieces are going to mix it up with commenters then an independent referee is needed to decide when to use the disemvoweler or to ban someone. As it was, way too many people got banned by Lee for things no different then what Lee was doing, such as calling Lee a liar; a label Lee used often against others. I don't know about others, but it's the diverse points of view and the ruff and tumble debate that brings me to these pages. Clear rules of engagement and an independent referee are must haves for any blog to gain readership, and without readership you might as well be writing to your diary.

I expect that Lee Ward was the Mr. Hyde embodiment of some Dr. Jekyll like person in the real world. To that real person I say thanks for your contributions. Even if I didn't agree, I always learned something from reading and commenting on Wizbang Blue.

::Mac Lorry

Truth to be told, I never paid much attention to Wizbang Blue. I only occasionally saw links from the main Wizbang page, but disregarded them in favor of the main blog. Have you considered revamping the Wizbang front page a bit? As a reader, I find that the links in the gray column tend to blend into the background, so I ignore them.

::James H

I never clicked through to Blue as simply reading the clips on the main page showed all the rage and nastiness of all the other lefty sites. Basically, Blue brought nothing new to the conversation. You lose nothing in dropping it. Good decision. A little more at Pop would be nice.

::BlogDog

Kevin,

I always thought that the idea to create another side to Wizbang was a good one, but there was one reason why it never worked, and everyone knows what that reason is. I am still not sure how the "editor" over there was able to gain as much control over the content of that site that he did. There were some interesting authors at the start, but one by one they abandoned ship.

Ward was basically the same commenter that he was here a few years ago, just with the power to ban people left and right. I pretty much stopped even looking at the Blue side of the site because of how he ran the show, and was always wondering when the powers that be were going to drop in and pull the cord on him. I have also always wondered why it was Ward who got so much control of the site, and not someone like Mantis or Larkin. What happened to them?

With Lee in charge, the site became little more than a parody of an alternative viewpoint.

Still, there was potential there, and I do like the idea of having two perspectives on this site. I was kind of hoping for a coup d'état that would establish Blue as a more viable and respectable part of this site. Too bad it never happened.

Anyway, considering most of the nonsense that is posted over at Blue, and the absolute lack of growth in the content for the most part, I agree with your decision. I do think that Paul H. was working hard to keep the ship afloat, and that should be recognized. Only so much that one can do.

::ryan a

Too many copycat columns on Wizbang main page is Wizbang's problem so Blue is not to blame for any traffic woes or failure to communicate a global vision on behalf of the owner, Kevin.

The main page is the inducement and the main page has been "stoved up". Combine all pages (Paul is your best author; he actually seems to have *done something* and *been places* in his life: that's good!)

Conclusion: the Wizbang main page readership-type is now in "turtle time" mode, to borrow a phrase from hockey. Expand your base. The Pop person can help by featuring a Girl of the Day pic. Airbrushed real estate ads??? What are we doin' here???

::bryanD

One alternative that would allow you to ditch the Blue site and still be able to present altervative perspectives: add one or two editors/contributors to the main page. Just one idea. That would add something new to the main page content.

::ryan a

Wizbang Blue was always good for a chuckle. It will be missed...

::Wordygirl

I would have few problems with Mr. Ward being "promoted" to the main page -- with one major caveat:

He have absolutely no power over editing or deleting comments, and kept completely away from the banning tools.

The sociopath wouldn't survive a week around here without his phallic compensation methods...

J.

::Jay Tea

There's a major problem with presenting "two sides" on Wizbang's front page: This blog, for better or for worse, has established itself as a conservative site with an extremely partisan community of commenters. How many liberal bloggers, particularly quality liberal bloggers, would be willing to fill an Alan Colmes role here when they could find a far friendlier audience at other sites?

::James H

Jay Tea --

Is it just me, or do you now spend more time on Oliver Willis's blog than here?

::James H

James, when I was a staffer here, I actively sought out a couple of liberals to present contrasting views. I roped "Pennywit" into contributing for a while, and lobbied "mantis" so hard I think I sprained both of our shoulders.

I liked the idea of an in-house "loyal opposition" -- it kept both sides sharp. As long as a certain level of civility and respect is maintained, it can work wonderfully. I think it's very valuable to have an ear on what "the other side" is thinking -- as well as a constant reminder that they are our rivals, not our enemies.

That entire paragraph is precisely why Mr. Ward would never survive on the main page. And why I would dearly, dearly love to see it happen.

J.

::Jay Tea

More time commenting, James, but not more time reading. Wizbang is still my home page.

I tend to go where I think I'm needed more than wanted. Over there, I can "fight the good fight." Here, there's not much call for my efforts -- the crew (authors old and new, as well as regular commenters) have things quite well in hand, and don't need my help.

Thanks for noticing, James...

::Jay Tea

Hey, Jay Tea -- what's your email address? Feel free to grab mine from the Wizbang log and contact me directly.

::James H

Jay Tea:

"I liked the idea of an in-house "loyal opposition" -- it kept both sides sharp. As long as a certain level of civility and respect is maintained, it can work wonderfully. I think it's very valuable to have an ear on what "the other side" is thinking -- as well as a constant reminder that they are our rivals, not our enemies."

I agree with you completely, especially your last point. I think the rivals not enemies point gets lost on a lot of sites--Kos among them. Balance and opposing views are good for critical thinking and discussion. Having more than one side represented helps to balance the echo chamber effect. Unfortunately, Blue was never really able to build a strong community of contributors that could keep pace with the kind of cohesion that exists on the main site.

I like the idea of putting some opposing views on the main site, but I think that Ward is not the right one to put there. But, of course, I see why you would vote him in, just to see the frenzy ensue. Very sadistic of you, Mr Tea! Haha.

Seriously though, I think the idea of having opposing POV's still has a great deal of merit. I wonder what Kevin thinks about that.

::ryan a

James, I don't have access to the Wizbang logs any more. I'm as out as out can be. However, if you drop a comment on one of my articles over at Contentions (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/category/contentions/contentions?author_name=thayer), I'll get your e-mail address and can respond.

J.

::Jay Tea

Jay Tea: Done.

::James H

Personally, I think Paul Hooson could survive on the main page, but he'd have to learn to link to sources OR be prepared to take a regular beating for not doing so. Given that he takes that beating on a regular basis, and with a modicum of grace, I'd bet on the latter. But, I think he'd have some value.

::SCSIwuzzy

Jay, I sure like your idea of allowing an in-house opposing viewpoint writer here. I'd be more than willing to volunteer for that duty for occasional posts. But, I'm also actually pretty happy to have been given the opportunity by Kevin to be posting entertainment, media and business features over at Wizbang Pop which is an excellent but underrated and under-read website. Tracey does a wonderful job over there and sure deserves far more readers than she now has.

I continually sought to expand the limits of Wizbang Blue by breaking new ground and attempting to expand it into more Cds, DVDs, music, motorcycles, automobiles, business and entertainment posts and to encourage more than just political readers to come over and take a look, making it look a little more like ROLLING STONE, NATIONAL LAMPOON, EASYRIDERS, MOTOR TREND and BUSINESS WEEK all combined. I wanted it to be cool, yet just irreverent enough to be funny, controversial, but always entertaining. Not stale. Not conservative in so many meanings.

Over at Wizbang Pop, I promise to bring plenty of fresh new edge there, along with a varied array of media, business and entertainment features.

I sure appreciate all the kind words from a few here. Wizbang Blue was an interesting struggle each day, finding something cool enough to keep the site interesting or fresh. I honestly believed it was getting better recently, as comments were picking up, and there was a lot more than just politics over there. It became the big city West Coast viewpoint of the world.

My more political pieces can still be found at my Progressive Values website. But Wizbang Pop will give me the opportunity to better cover some of my true loves such as music, film or business news.

::Paul Hooson

Mr. Hooson, congratulations on escaping the association with Mr. Ward. Keeping your shots up could NOT have been cheap.

J.

::Jay Tea

I thought Kevins' idea of having both sides of
the political argument represented on Wizbang
was an innovative idea. True fairness and
equal access. An idea before its' time, so to
speak.

::maggie

Lee Ward on the main page here? I think it's a horrible idea. Lee has never simply offered a different point of view. Lee is confrontational, abrasive and ill-tempered. One could easily look down the right column of blurbs from the other Wizbang sections and, without exception, be able to pick which ones were Lee's just by the title. If he were on the main page, I would seriously begin to question Kevin's decision to allow him there and look for somewhere else to make home.

::Oyster

My dear Oyster, I sympathize. But think for a moment -- how long would Ward last with THIS crew of commenters (myself included), and without his cudgel of banning? How long would he last before he snapped and went completely over the edge and Kevin got rid of him, or he quit?

It's the very definition of "red meat," my dear Oyster -- a car wreck that we could all slow down and gawk at, without the icky guilt associated with real accidents.

Indeed, we could take pride in our involvement in that particular wreck. It would be a true Roman circus event.

J.

::Jay Tea

Lee Ward on the main page here? I think it's a horrible idea.

I agree that would be a horrible idea.

Jay Tea, I seldom disagree with you, but in this case I very much do so. This site does not need an irrational demagogue.

I understand you, but Kevin already gave him a chance to succeed. He obviously failed. Why reward him with a second chance?

::Eric

james h - "How many liberal bloggers, particularly quality liberal bloggers, would be willing to fill an Alan Colmes role here when they could find a far friendlier audience at other sites?"

Horse hockey.

The vast majority of "liberal" commenters here are of the troll variety and offer a near zero ability to actually conduct an honest debate.

There's no campaign afoot to disallow "quality liberal bloggers" they are free to enter and debate to their hearts content and I suspect by and large they would be treated with respect and lively debates would ensue.

That they don't says nothing about Wizbang or the authors that reside here.

::Marc

Marc:

I did not say that Wizbang hosts a "campaign to disallow 'quality liberal bloggers,'" but rather that a quality liberal blogger would likely find Wizbang an extremely hostile environment.

::James H

I think Lee Ward is the name of a part some otherwise respectable person was playing. I find it improbable that anyone who takes themselves seriously could be so consistently immune to logic. It had to be a shtick and the person behind it someone known to many of us. It's probably the longest running April fools joke in history. To that person I say bravo.

::Mac Lorry

There's no campaign afoot to disallow "quality liberal bloggers" they are free to enter and debate to their hearts content and I suspect by and large they would be treated with respect and lively debates would ensue.

The problem I'm seeing with liberal blogging sites is that their positions aren't based on facts, it's based on the feelings that are shared by the community. You see the frothing on Kos and DU - there's little to no possibility that they're going to accept their ideas are anything but correct. To even question the ideas, much less attempt to think otherwise, would 'sever' the bonds with their community.

Honestly, the fact she's Republican is what does it for me. This is the party that openly, gleefully hates women, openly gleefully hates homosexuals, openly gleefully promotes the murder of doctors brave enough to provide abortion services, openly and gleefully hates the poor, openly and gleefully believes in some sky fairy that thinks I'm inferior to men etc etc etc.

It's kind of hard to get any sort of reasonable dialog going when there's no desire to get a dialog going, and a LOT of hard-set unquestionable beliefs that would preclude any sort of communication at all.

::JLawson

Keep in mind that when I talk about "quality liberal bloggers," I'm certainly not referring to the denizens of Daily Kos and DU. I'm thinking more of Matthew Yglesias, Kevin Drum, and Ezra Klein.

::James H

I think Lee Ward is the name of a part some otherwise respectable person was playing. I find it improbable that anyone who takes themselves seriously could be so consistently immune to logic. It had to be a shtick and the person behind it someone known to many of us. It's probably the longest running April fools joke in history. To that person I say bravo.

Mac, I too have thought that for a long time. I always thought Lee could be JayTea's alter ego and assumed it was he who was playing us.

Either way, Lee has no place on the main page or any page associated with Wizbang. He eschews logic and spits venom at those who disagree with him. His constant drumbeat over at Blue was to label every Republican a racist who dared speak out against Obama and his policies. His rage against Sarah Palin was disgusting and endless, he was obsessed and this website is better off without him. While I disagreed with Paul in nearly everything, he is not nearly as unhinged as lee and can hold intelligent debates. He would be a welcome contributor to the main page as well at Pop. Although like SCSIwuzzy says above, Paul needs to work on his linking ability.

::J.R.

For the record, I am not "Lee Ward," never have been, and if I ever did act like him, someone please shoot me.

I preferred to think of him as my mirror image; opposite in every way. Me with a goatee, perhaps.

And let me reiterate: my endorsing Mr. Ward for posting privileges on the main page -- with the very important caveat that he have NO ability to control comments or implement bans -- would be the most spectacular slow-motion car crash imaginable. Without his authoritarian tools to enforce compliance with his wishes, he'd crumble and dissolve into a complete intellectual collapse and emotional meltdown.

And that, my friends, former colleagues, and fondly-missed commenters, would be sheer delight to watch.

Even more for those of us who'd be throwing gas on that fire.

Yes, that's a bit petty and vindictive of me. So be it.

J.

::Jay Tea

Jay,

First let me say I never thought Lee Ward was your Mr. Hyde, but he is someone's Mr. Hyde or shtick.

Without his authoritarian tools to enforce compliance with his wishes, he'd crumble and dissolve into a complete intellectual collapse and emotional meltdown.

Before there was Wizbang Blue Lee Ward did comment on these pages without any of the "authoritarian tools to enforce compliance" and he offered a different point of view and seemed reasonably able to defend his points. Only when he was given control of Wizbang Blue did he become totally immune to reason. At least that's how I remember it.

::Mac Lorry

FWIW, my comment about Jay being Lee was with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek.

he offered a different point of view and seemed reasonably able to defend his points. Only when he was given control of Wizbang Blue did he become totally immune to reason. At least that's how I remember it.

I actually remember it differently. I remember his comments and engagements before Blue and while he may have had some reasonable comments, he certainly displayed the unhinged characteristics that only grew exponentially over at Blue. I think it would be interesting to see him commenting over here on the main page.

::J.R.

Jay Tea, I remember Lee Ward from several years back, when we had a long-winded argument about whether logins and user accounts should be required. Kevin decided against it, and I left for about a year. The atmosphere around here was just too poisonous.

If Lee Ward starts showing up here again, the same thing is going to happen, probably with the same result. He brings hate speech with him, and I personally want nothing to do with him. I don't think I'm alone.

::bobdog

I notice that out of 57 comments in this thread and that thread there are no comments defending Lee.

::Eric

I find it improbable that anyone who takes themselves seriously could be so consistently immune to logic. It had to be a shtick and the person behind it someone known to many of us. It's probably the longest running April fools joke in history. To that person I say bravo.

If it that were the case, Mac, I would think Andy Kaufman had been reincarniated. However, Lee's level of cleverness never extended outside of him using the Caribbean island-esque nome de plume of "Lee Ward."

::Peter F.

The attempt was made. Kudos for that.

I will say, however, that, at least to me, Blue was nothing more than distracting headlines on the right side of the main page devolving into the mere existence of "shock." The same 3-6 people writing, whining, and commenting on eachothers works had not a grab 'em by the scruff and pull 'em in sort of allure.

The few times I attempted to post there, my comments were promptly taken down, with no reason given.

It was not a failure of idea or attempt, but of the attitude behind the blue wheel.

As far as I am concerned, Wizbang has nothing to prove. The availability of differing opinions is so widely accessable in this medium, this site stands strongly on its own merits.

We have a highly educated, very expressive readership on both sides of the aisle, who contribute to the forensics in such a way that an entire entity, or even main-page accessability to a contrary point of view is not needed.

Wizbang has evolved into an informative, educational, highly interactive place. The site fits into its right-leaning cove perfectly. Its content is not hateful. Its survival does not depend on allowing "another" side to flourish.

Confusion in identity is not what we need. We are what we are and should be damned proud of it.

-Shawn

::Shawn

james h - "but rather that a quality liberal blogger would likely find Wizbang an extremely hostile environment."

And that is precisely what I disputed, show where that may be true.

As JT noted he convinced Pennywit, a noted liberal, to add content here.

Go ahead find in this long list of her posts where she was consistently treated in the manner you suggest.

::Marc

Um... Marc, it might come as news to The Author Formerly Known As Pennywit that they are of the distaff persuasion.

Having met said person for lunch one time, I feel moderately comfortable in stating that said blogger was a he.

Not that I verified it beyond a shadow of a doubt, but on first impression, I was fairly certain he was a he.

Dude did NOT look like a lady...

J.

::Jay Tea

Jay Tea's been reading Shaw or Wodehouse or he's making fun of King George V, either one.

Combine all boards.

::bryanD

Get rid of Ward over at Blue, replace him with bryanD. Now THAT oughta liven things up a bit.

::OregonMuse

OK, I'm confessing. I'm indulging my inner bomb-thrower here.

But damn, doesn't it sound tempting as all hell?

J.

::Jay Tea

Whatever her new calling turns out to be, I wish her all the success in the world. She has certainly done enough to earn it.

Yeah, 30 months at work and then quitting. Definitely deserves it.

believe that Sarah Palin could become such a figure, even if she does not run for elected office again. She has the ability to galvanize the conservative movement and organize it around a set of positive, proactive goals, which is what conservatism needs right now.

I really hope this happens. To whom can I give money to make sure it does?

::jp2

LOL, more trolling to come, no doubt.

::epador

not even the national Republican party -- could be trusted to back her if she decided to pursue a Senate or Presidential candidacy.

I have not heard anyone put that thought it words, but I think you are right on the money...and that is a sad statement.

::RockyfromCali

jp2:

Here.

http://www.palinpac.org/catalog/c1_p1.html

Not that you're serious. Trolls never are. If I'm wrong, post or link to the receipt, blocking out the personal details.

::pvd

ENOUGH! Enough with the excuses. Palin is inarticulate. Her speeches just ramble on incoherently. She is uninformed. She has been peddling the same canned talking points for almost a year now. After the election, she needed to hit the books and learn a couple of things about policy.

I am on the Right, politically. I was a huge fan of Sarah when she first came on the scene. But her lack of knowledge about the issues and her refusal to remedy it, has turned me off. It has nothing to do with being insider, outsider, Trig, her looks or any of the lame excuses her supporters put out.

::Chekote

A couple of things seem evident to me:

1. Sarah Palin likely has big Republican financial backers, and those backers have had their eye on her long before McCain announced her as his running mate.
2. Sarah, and those financial backers, are arguably making one of the biggest political gambles in US History.
3. Which means there are likely some names behind Sarah that would surprise a LOT OF FOLKS. I would just note that Jeb Bush, for example, has said very little about either Sarah or the current direction of the GOP.

Just me thinking out loud.

::Brad Schwartze

Brad,

Keep thinking.

::Chekote

Obama free from corruption?? Surely you jest!

As far as articulate, look at the idiot in the White House speak w/o a teleprompter

::GianiD

Chekote:

Would you care to debate her in energy policy?

And there are plenty of middle Americans that do not have an issue with the manner of her speech. Obama can barely say hello without a teleprompter. Sarah Palin generally manages to communicate with the public just fine.

::pvd

Probably the best analysis I have seen.

There is no question that the signals coming from the party insiders were that they would not support her. Too bad for them; because the party needs Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin does not need the party because she has a life.

::Oldflyer

Too bad for them; because the party needs Sarah Palin.

The party needs Sarah Palin as much as it needs George Bush. They both can't articulate their way out of a paper bag.

::Chekote

Would you care to debate her in energy policy?

This brings up the question, if Palin is such an energy expert why hasn't she emerged as the national Republican spokesman on this issue? What hasn't she given a detailed, comprehensive policy speech to counter Obama's cap and tax folly? I will tell you why, she can't. Her energy "expertise" is limited to talking about drilling ANWAR. Building the pipeline and repeating the line "hungry markets" twenty times. I have never heard her explain energy like T. Boone Pickins although people like you want to pretend that she is at the same level as T. Boone.

::Chekote

Chekote, the troll that talks like a lib but wants you to believe she/he is a conservative.

They always think they are so smart even though they can be spotted a mile away.

Sad, really.

::sue

Sure Sue. Accuse anybody who doesn't rant and rave at the great Sarah Palin of being a troll. Let's see Krauthammer. Troll. Jonah Goldberb. Troll. Powerline blog. Trolls. We are all trolls for realizing that Palin is not ready for the national scene. Never has been.

::Chekote

You mean Pickens and his windmills?
LOL.

::maggie

ANWR, not ANWAR. Concern troll who's not up on the issues. I'm supposed to be convinced?

::Jeff Medcalf

Chekote:

Alaska Energy: A First Step Toward Energy Independence which was Palin's plan presented this year drew high praise but not from the folks that you would predict.

Environmental groups praised Palin's proposal.

"We just became a leader among states in committing to renewable energy as the power source of the future," Pat Lavin, attorney for the National Wildlife Federation, told the Anchorage Daily News for its January 16 story.

Lavin called Palin's proposal "a defining moment in Alaska's history."

Kate Troll, executive director of the Alaska Conservation Alliance, offered praise as well.

"We think the 50 percent renewable energy goal by 2025 is a laudable goal. We would like to see it incorporated into the energy plan. We would also like to see the demand side addressed, in terms of energy efficiency. Palin has acknowledged the need for this in her public statements, and we would like to see this cemented in the plan," Troll said.

Maybe she was actually doing her job, you know, the Governor gig in Alaska rather than prop up the GOP/

::pvd

I mean a national energy policy. You know this is a blog. Picking on spelling is a waste of time. It is supposed to be sloppy. Where is Sarah's proposal to counter Obama's cap and trade? Did she ever deliver a speech or conducted an interview explaining why Obama's cap and trade policy is a disaster? All she does is send out disjointed tweets and her fanitical following gushes about the brilliance of the woman.

::Chekote

Maybe she was actually doing her job, you know, the Governor gig in Alaska rather than prop up the GOP

Then why did she quit? If she was doing such a wonderful job? Please don't bring up the ethics stuff. Every politician goes through that. Besides, it was her own ethics reform that allowed people to file stuff like wearing and Artic Cat jacket.

::Chekote

Chekote:

I don't know why she quit. Her stated reason was that the ethics compliants were taking up inordinate amounts of time and she could not properly serve the State.

And no, not every politician goes through that. To date, none of the ethics complaints have been found to have merit.

Your post #19, in addition to moving the goalposts, smacks of "Not my dog. He didn't bite you. Besides you kicked him first..."

::pvd

An unabashed "climber" known as Hillary trans-
formed herself into an icon, hanging on des-
perately to a serial molester of women. Her
"bitch on wheels" persona somehow morphed into
the "smartest woman in the world". She was
so close to the Presidency that she, her
adoring fans, and Bill could taste it. The
inner power elite went for the "dark horse."
Palin will never get the same orchestrated
resurrection that Hillary got, but she may
yet play a role in Obama's Waterloo. As
flawed as she seems to be, she's got more
Y chromosome in her than most Repub office
holders.

::Trajan

Chekote:

You are inarticulate. You cannot present evidence, argue your points or present a coherent arguement. You bray like a donkey. Your ignorance is demonstrated by your evidence you present which apparently is that its that time of the month and you are on the rag.

When you can present something coherent and reasoned why not present it. Till then wouldn't you find the DU or Huffington more suitable for your "huge" skills and talents.

I am sure you'll present a better analysis once your teleprompter is fixed.

::Thomas Jackson

Hillary Clinton was accused of being responsible for Vince Foster's death. Not to mention the whole Meena drug trafficking charges. Not to mention the suggestion that Bill and Hillary were responsible for the deaths of several people who "got in their way". Not to mention that Hillary had an independent counsel looking into everything she did from the time in AK to the White House. Their legal bills were in the millions. Did Hillary quit? NO! Palin tucked her tail between her legs because of 15 complaints and a legal bill which was easily covered by SarahPAC contributions. So much for the pitbill with lipstick.

::Chekote

Hey Thomas! Are you the Thomas Jackson from PP? If yes, missed you.

::Chekote

jp2: (derisively) "Yeah, 30 months at work and then quitting. Definitely deserves it." (praise)

jp2, yes Obama was only in the Senate for 30 months before abandoning his duties as Senator...but he DID at least sell his seat to Burris, who has been a PEACH!!

But I don't think Obama's total lack of accomplishments during those 30 months should disqualify him from "higher office". Do you?? :)

jp2...give the Big 'O' a break.

::Justrand

JustRand,

Obama didn't quit his job until he won the presidency. Palin should have finished her term and then announce that she was not seeking re-election because she was going for POTUS.

::Chekote

chekote,

You're slamming Palin on multiple sites tonight. Why?

::pvd

Chekote a troll?? ..nahhhhh
The correct term is MOBY....

Enough anti-Palin pro-Hillary bs, now go get your f'n shinebox!!!

::Knightbrigade

Not ready for the National scene Chekote?

Oh thats right, You must be able to put the country 3 trillion in debt and drive unemployment to 10% create a recession and aid terrorists and Dictators across the Globe to be ready for the National prime time scene!

I will go with the Country Girl, Thank You.

::914

You're slamming Palin on multiple sites tonight. Why?

Because I am sick and tired of all the execuses being made for her behavior. The time and energy conservatives spend on defending and promoting Sarah would be better spent on defeating Obama. The woman is a waste of money and time.

::Chekote

chekote,

Hillary didn't have a job during the period you describe.

Obama never showed up for his.

And Alaska was grinding to a halt because the Governor was spending more time answering bogus ethics complaints than working. The same goes for her staff.

Was quitting the correct action? Dont' know yet. Ask me again in twenty years.

::pvd

914

I am so sick and tired of people not being able to defen Palin on her merits. Yes, Obama is a disaster. So we conservatives should have our own version of a cult of personality, disaster?!

::Chekote

chekote,

A word of advice. It's usually far more productive to act in support of your beliefs than to fight against and belittle the beliefs of others.

::pvd

chekote,

Do you follow basketball at all? If so, you'll understand the concept of drafting on potential. Many teams will take a potentially game-changing player, especially one that buys into a team concept, rather than a solid known commodity.

The game-changer can win championships though it may take seasons of maturation and pain first.

The solid role player helps you get to the playoffs - and can't get you past the first round.

::pvd

pvd

People have been pushing her as the next Reagan. I am still waiting for her rendezvous with destiny speech.

::Chekote

Well, send her a note (with smiley faces) and ask her pretty please to indulge you in your needs.

::pvd

pvd

If she had done that at the CPAC this winter, most of the doubts that people on the Right have about her would have been put to rest.

::Chekote

If she had gone, an ehtics charge would have been filed for using her position for personal gain.

Catch-22.

She also cited the need to get things done in state and the CPAC convnetion occurred in the middle of the legislative session.

::pvd

Sarah Palin has done worlds for Alaska. It's outrageous that the media and left have dedicated their efforts to paralyzing the governing ability of a state governor. I would love to see her seek a higher office, as I believe she is a candidate I could fully support without reservation, however, I would never want someone to sacrifice their family for public office (nor should they have to). Of course, some politicians willingly choose to sacrifice their families (Sanford?...). She is an upstanding lady, a smart woman, and an incredible leader. As an Alaskan, I am proud to stand behind her.

::Liberty Belle

Michael barely posted this before little jp2 jumped in. You can always count on her to be there for Sarah! jp2 = FOOL

::Greg

with those kids to support, a government job salary and the high lifestyle they are having it is making sense to to quit and make the real money in the private sector. speaking gig will bring mllions into her coffer. she ain't doing this quitting because she had no chance of getting elected in any place with population more than a million much less the whole nation. she knew it. leave her alone and let her make her dollars.

::john

Palin's announcement seems to have overshadowed all the media coverage of the Tea Parties. :(

::Adrian Browne

Pffft. The local weather report would have overshadowed all the media coverage of the Tea Parties; because they are intent on NOT covering them.
That's ok. They are growing. There's more local coverage of them. When the economy REALLY tanks they will get too big for the MSM to willfully ignore anymore.

btw, you seem to be fixated on the Tea Parties. You keep bringing them up no matter what the subject of the post.
Phobic much?
A lot of the lefties are terrified by the Tea Parties, kind of like they are of Sarah Palin.
Why is that?
If they're so unimportant, why all the unhinged rantings about both?

At a lot of blogs there seems a lot of troll activity to dismiss and disparage Sarah and the T Parties. It's almost like it's coordinated marching orders. Something has them scared.

::Les Nessman

A very astute, comprehensive take with a caveat.

The GOP regulars don't get it, they are past putrifying and are petrifying. Their favorites-Romney cannot overcome Massachusetts Health care, Bush III cannot overcome two spendthrift predecessors, Pawlenty surmount his fallen bridges-to keep the pilot lit let alone start the house on fire.

Palin can attract independents who will stay home with the conservatives if the GOP chooses to go it alone again in 2012. Even Jindal or Cantor might fail to bring us in. There's no longer a Palin doggie treat to toss our way.

::gary gulrud

Chekote - "Then why did she quit? If she was doing such a wonderful job? Please don't bring up the ethics stuff. Every politician goes through that. Besides, it was her own ethics reform that allowed people to file stuff like wearing and Artic Cat jacket."

Ok, no "ethics stuff." But I see you apparently and completely dismiss the possibility she was damn tired of the cheap assed sniping directed at her family that continues to this very day.

BTW, nice try at blaming the victim, yeah you got it.

It was ALL her fault for setting up an ethics reform committee.

Let me guess Chekote, your next trick will be to blame her for being chosen by McCain in the first place.

::Marc

I was glad to see the Palin's attorney go on the offensive. What I would really liked to have seen is Todd Palin flying to N.Y. and walking into Dave(I'm still here and unfunny)Letterman's and John(I fought in VN but, my heart wasn't in it)Kerry's office and ask them to repeat what they said about his wife and family in front of him. Both of the CS liberal jerks would probably hide under their desks.

::MPR

"There is something about a Down syndrome child in plain view which has exposed the moral and emotional bankruptcy of the left-wing of the Democratic party. And they hate Sarah Palin because deep down, they hate themselves for being who they are."

Who would have thought I'd have something in common with the Democrats? I hate them for who they are, too.

::Tim

I have never been to a book signing. When her book comes out, if Palin goes on a signing tour I have this gut feeling I will be one of those loonies who will be very willing to stand in line to shake her hand.

"...modern journalism apparently abhors any type of due diligence and fact checking before scurrilous allegations are repeated as fact,"

Yep, that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it.

::DaveD

Some of the nastiest ones about Sarah Palin are on this site. The ones that I am referring to, are the people that run Wizbang Blue. They are right up there with the Daily Kos and the New York Slimes in the vile vitriol that they spew about her.

::Stan25

The lib/progs aren't used to people standing up and fighting back.

They believe they are entitled to dominance.

We all need to follow Palin's example and fight back.

::davidt

Stan, I agree. Its shameful that someone would allow crap like that to be posted. Gue$$ there has to be a reason right?

::GianiD

I think that Wizbangblue was started to give the other side a voice on Wizbangblog. However, I think that it has become an embarrassment to the site overall.

Its pretty much SOP for the left. As soon as they have a platform, the screaming loonies take over and remove any chance for a decent debate of the facts.

::Rick13

Obi-Wan to Luke before Star Wars UN bar scene, " you will never find a more retched hive of scum and villiany". For now that can be applied to the GOP Establishment types severely attacking Palin, and the MSMLSD types.

Naughty Monkey red pump heel just planted right between the eyeballs of HuffPo "scum and villiany". LMAO!

This is how you fight back. Not in a war of words back and forth with Letterman, but via this sort of possible lawsuit.

IMO, this move by her is looking better and better. The fact that the DNC, and moobats nation wide view it as her death knell in politics only suggest they are really terrified of her now since being governor will no longer be a blocking agent.

As a non-Palinista, this move is one which makes me believe she really can do this. This is the type of move which I can support, and one which I believe will produce answers I need before signing up to campaign for her.

Andrew Malcolm at the L.A. Times said you cannot view this move by her to be all bad because we no longer live in an age where traditional is necessarily going to work, or be the best path to take. The election of President Candyland proves this. The American public is beyond fed up with politics, and politicians. I mean fed up to the gills! I believe she is now going to be viewed as an American. What a concept! We elect one of us, a real bona fide American citizen. Not a community organizer, not a inside the Beltway politician, not a lifetime politician, not a smooth talking big business type, but a bill paying American.

"Reagan in a skirt", who shoots an arctic fox from a helicopter! No wonder they are peeing on themselves!

::freeus

Off topic:

Blue had potential. Then a raving sociopath seized control and appointed himself editor in chief, and the others didn't call him on it.

J.

::Jay Tea

Change FBI or IRS.

And let's threaten people on Independence Day that we are going to sue them for the political article they wrote. Brilliant! Oh sorry, Sarah doesn't read; she watched this on MSNBC.

Beautiful. Love it. Keep swinging.

::Larry Dickman

"...modern journalism apparently abhors any type of due diligence and fact checking before scurrilous allegations are repeated as fact."

Not our beloved MSM? They have multiple layers of fact checking. They've even told us that. We even saw an example, Joe Biden talking about FDR on television. Cute Katie just stood there and nodded her head in agreement.

::GarandFan

I have no idea if Palin had a grand plan in mind when she resigned. I think she was doing what was best for her family and her state.

I agree - it certainly was better for the state if she quit and ran, just like she did. (Or if you prefer, "pass the ball for victory!") Normally the far right doesn't recommend a cut and run strategy, but I suppose it's better here? *shrug*

I still think there must be another shoe waiting to drop. If she plans on running in 2012 this move isn't helpful, but then again, maybe this is just another insane rogue move on her part.

::jp2

jp2:

The gauntlet has been dropped and you refuse to acknowledge it. Beautiful.

::epador

[ie, she's thrown it down, and the left/media, picked at it a bit, puzzling what it means and are walking away congratulating themselves on a win while she's ready to duel them and win]

::epador

And let's threaten people on Independence Day that we are going to sue them for the political article they wrote.

That's a good time for it. Remind them that even "free" speech has a certain level of responsibility, and that FALSE political speech isn't protected as much as some people think.

No, you don't get to randomly make up whatever crap you want to about your political enemies and get away with it just because you call it "political speech." You can get away with a lot of crap in the US on those terms, but there are limits. Once you pass a certain line, you can still get your ass sued (sounds like some bloggers are going to get the monetary flip side of what the Democrats have been doing to Palin with their 100% false "ethics complaints").

Note also that even if your comments against a political figure like Palin aren't punishable under libel/slander laws, the associated slander and libel of the OTHER people in the story can still bite you in the ass.

So the false claims about the Palin house getting material from a government-funded project might not be completely actionable from the Palin side - but the contractor could sue the living hell out of the commenter for possible loss of reputation...

Unfortunately, a lot of the Left follow the "I can say whatever I want and not suffer any repercussions" philosophy. Heck, many of them think they can do whatever they want, including breaking the law, and still shouldn't be punished, no matter what.

::cirby

The gauntlet has been dropped and you refuse to acknowledge it. Beautiful.

We'll see - I just can't fathom anyone quitting because they thought people were being mean to them. Maybe she got a TV show or a huge book deal. Either way, like most of the Palin saga, it's funny and surreal.

::jp2

This must be a big dissapoinment to the liberals especialy from the various birdcage linners talking heads and the green freaks corupt labor unions and especialy that sinister group ACORN

::Flu-Bird

I suppose as we attributed earthquakes, typhoons, tsunamais, hurricanes, warring nations, maniacal murders, to President Bush, we could also attribute these great powers to Governor Palin. That is the kind of woman I could vote for .... one with godlike power!

::J

Good post. I am sick of those using their crystal balls to tell us Palin is dead. Based on what evidence. I really dislike the Vichy GOP who like to call themselves Republicans/Conservatives while they push a Bush/MCCain agenda.

Again thanks for having the courage to present both sides of the story rather than using a crystal ball and calling it facts.

::Thomas Jackson

jp2 and the rest of you morally bankrupt lefties actually have the ego to think she is resigning because of your crudeness. Wow! Someone thinks he is important.

The left should regret the treatment they gave Palin, it is now in the political playbook. ww

::WildWillie

Well jp2, it is OK to be fathomless. But consider what freeus has mentioned above. The (career) politicians on both sides of the aisle are not viewed with a great deal of love right now. So she divorces herself from the cesspool of personal destruction typical of the political class and the accommodating media. The Republican establishment may pretend she made a bad move and go tsk, tsk but I don't think they care too much about it really. 'Elite' Republican and Democrat politicians and pundits may openly disagree with each other on policy for our sake but at the end of the day they are all on the same side to preserve their power in Washington. What's the worst that happens to a career congressperson. You lose a committee chairmanship for a few years until your party regains power.

There is no way this woman deserved the treatment she received since her accepting the VP nomination. I don't really care if she's "polished". If I can understand her English well enough and her policies mirror my desires for the future of this country, she' got my serious attention. I feel there were no major upsides to her bremaining governor of Alaska. Her decision pales significantly to those who remain in politics for their own personal gain. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank are criminals in my mind. Sarah Palin? Really what is it with your ilk that has such a hang up about her?

::DaveD

There is no way this woman deserved the treatment she received since her accepting the VP nomination.

She was completely unprepared and was exposed very early. (And she hasn't improved much either, case in point yesterdays bizarre speech) She made a very easy target. Just what do think was unfair though?

Really what is it with your ilk that has such a hang up about her?

Not sure if "hangup" would be the word I would use. Like I've said before, I'll probably donate to her campaign, whatever it is. I think she's a disaster in every way and now it looks like the pressure has caught up to her. As for others, I think they are confused as to how a serial liar (numerous, numerous examples) who lacks class (AYERS! OBAMA ~= TERRORIST) could have garnered any votes.

::jp2

Please stop using Trig to make your political points. Nobody cares about the fact that she Sarah had Trig. It makes conservative look silly when they suggest that everyone opposes Sarah because of Trig. Most oppose her because she has proven to be unprepared, incoherent and not the tought "pit bill with lipstick" presented at the GOP convention.

::Chekote

Well, jp2, I agree that it is fair game to criticize any politician, including Sarah Palin, for a lack of preparedness on issues directly related to their job. The extremely course comments about her family were uncalled for. And, no, just because someone takes their kids with them somewhere does not mean they are automatic targets. I would have been horrified if the Obama kids would have been treated the same way. Maybe the hangup is mine. I still can't rationalize how a woman who is felt to be so incompetent by so many of those on the left has become such a focus of their persistent ill will.

::DaveD

The extremely course [sic] comments about her family were uncalled for.

Who made these comments? Certainly not the opposition. The entire family was treated graciously by Obama's team. Besides Letterman and a handful of people on the internet, who has attacked her family? Just want some examples.

(Personally, I think she uses her family as a shield for attacks. She has no problem sending her daughter on a public pro-abstinence lecture series. But point out the hypocrisy? She has uses her Down's son constantly to show how pro-life she is - yet she even speaks about how she "made the choice" to have the kid. She can't have it both ways on everything.)

::jp2

Palin's camp make a mistake threatening the media via letter. The story was more or less below the national radar. That letter basically gave all the national media a reason to go digging around in Alaska to see if there's any reason Palin's being so aggressive.

Not to mention that when you're a public official, it takes a LOT to win a defamation suit ...

::James H

"Change FBI or IRS."

Oh, yeah. Let's bring in that "reputable" institution run by the most diabolical people on earth to investigate. They're sure to have their bookkeepers handy and ready to swear on a Bible that what they say is nothing but the truth, so help them the idols that they worship.

::LaMedusa

jp - "Who made these comments? Certainly not the opposition. The entire family was treated graciously by Obama's team"

Are you really that detached from reality not to notice or remember all the personal attacks that originated in the MSM?

Example: Fox News anchor Alan Colmes, of Hannity & Colmes, titled a post on his blog Liberaland "Did Palin Take Proper PreNatal Care?" In it, he wondered if she somehow was at fault for having a disabled child.

Nothing like being ignorant Colmes, Down syndrome is not attributable to any behavioral activity of the parents or environmental factors.

Example: Remember the Sherry Johnston drug arrest? Alaskan drug investigator Kyle Young wrote that the case "...was not allowed to progress in a normal fashion, the search warrant service WAS delayed because of the pending election."

Coverage of this unsubstantiated allegation - that turned out to be false - was run by MSNBC, CBS News, the New York Times, Newsday, the Washington Post, USA Today, and the Dallas Morning News.

With just a bit of intellectuality honesty, not to mention a few minutes of research, you too could find dozens of crap stories in the last months but I doubt you will.

It's much easier to snipe from the sidelines than it is to seek the truth.

::Marc

"Did Palin Take Proper PreNatal Care?"

Since you provided no links, I can only imagine Colmes was pointing out was how absolutely insane it was to travel across the country in your 3rd trimester WHILE LEAKING AMNIOTIC FLUID. I don't know of any woman that would do something so silly. In fact, most airlines ban passengers from even trying it. It's very, very irresponsible. If he actually implied that it caused Down's syndrome, medically that would be dead wrong. Down's is diagnosed far earlier. Anyways, provide some evidence and I'll gladly concede that point.

Same thing on your 2nd point. A link would be helpful.

::jp2

jp - "Since you provided no links, I can only imagine Colmes was pointing out was how absolutely insane it was to travel across the country in your 3rd trimester WHILE LEAKING AMNIOTIC FLUID."

Lets assume that to be true... Ok "Mr. Pre-natal health care expert" just how would that cause anything close to down syndrome at that very late stage of pregnancy?

And BTW, you once again prove your ability at intellectual curiosity is about zero. There are plenty of stories on that post but you couldn't take the seconds to find them, what you won't find is the actual post. The asswipe Colmes pulled it down after being excoriated by several doctors in the comment thread and posted a screen shot of it.

::Marc

No, you don't get to randomly make up whatever crap you want to about your political enemies and get away with it just because you call it "political speech."
15. Posted by cirby | July 5, 2009 2:04 PM

I was just wondering if the vast right wing applied the same standards to Hillary Clinton?

Does the name Vince Foster ring any bells?

Yes, I agree Sarah Palin can draw big crowds everywhere she goes, then again so does the Barnum & Bailey circus but a wouldn't want those clowns anywhere near the white house either.

::Live@9

Don't assume just by reading an article, wherever that article is, jp2. It's like assuming the IRS is your friend if they pay you for information. Sift through a few more references, and you may find even Palin was mistaken about the fluid and what it actually was. Look for a physician's point of view, for instance.

::LaMedusa

"then again so does the Barnum & Bailey circus but a wouldn't want those clowns anywhere near the white house either."

Don't worry, your clowns are in like flint until 2012. But I suppose even the richest and most heavily financed clowns begin to lose their luster when the cider wears off.

::LaMedusa

jp2

Ref COlmes

Kinda hard to provide links to exactly what Colmes said when he wiped it from his site.
However you can check out this newsbusters post.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/08/31/stooping-lowest-level-democratic-claim-palins-faked-pregnancy-ga

"Pile this on top of the low blow from TV's Alan Colmes who claims that Palin didn't practice proper prenatal care before she had the baby with Down's Syndrome, blaming the Mother for her disabled child. Well, the lefties don't know a low road they won't take. (Colmes' site has crashed right now, but this is the address if it ever comes back: http://www.alan.com/2008/08/30/did-palin-take-proper-pre-natal-care/)"

Down's is caused by an extra chromosome which Al Gore could tell you after all the flack he took from saying "extra chromosome right wing" which no amount of "proper prenatal care" would prevent.

Here is a wizbang post also speaking about the Colmes column.

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/08/31/you-stay-classy-alan-colmes.php

The screen shot does not specifically state that Colmes believes that the DOwn's syndrome was caused by the flight but one has to wonder exactly why Colmes was asking the question if he was not referring to the Downs syndrome.

::retired military

JP2

As I stated above. COlmes post, which can be seen on the screen shot, did not specifically mention the down's syndrome.

However logic dictates the following questions be asked.

a. If he wasnt talking about Down's syndrome then why ask the question at all?

b. Does anyone go around and ask about other women prenatal habits if there isnt something wrong with baby?

c. If Colmes was not in your opinion talking about the DOwn's syndrome than what in your opinion was he asking about? Leaking fluid on the airline flight? After all even Colmes admits that Palin consulted her doctor. If her doctor had no problem with it then why should Colmes? If the baby were healthy (without Downs) than would Colmes have asked this question?

::retired military

Marc:

From the screen shot, Colmes makes no mention of Palin's poor, stupid choice possibly causing disability, as you stated earlier.

Again, if the media was so mean to her family it forced to be a quitter, hook me up with examples. So far, 0/2.

::jp2

Well p2, they can now worry about legal action if the libel or slander her. I have to ask. Do you know you are a liar? Rush posed the question about where liberals come from. I suggest they are the result of gay sex.

::Zelsdorf Ragshaft III

I'm glad to be rid of Sarah Palin. She became bored with AK and the rest of the lower 48 can pretend she has the ability to lead. What a sad day for all of us. She is a quitter. If the Republican party can't offer a better candidate than Palin....heaven help us all.

::Pat Parsch

"That is the kind of woman I could vote for .... one with godlike power!"

Suggested bumper sticker for a Palin/Obama matchup:

2012: My Goddess Beats Your Messiah!

::Brad Schwartze

"I suggest they are the result of gay sex."

And Zelsdorf Trogdor Dragonslayer III comes out of the closet as someone pretending to be the world's stupidest conservative in order to make all other conservatives look just a little bit stupider by virtue of the fact that he pretends to support the same politicians as them. The jig is up, d-bag! Go back to the Daily Kos (after you make a quick stop at animedepot.com, of course).

Ha, just screwing with you. I know your lunacy is 100% sincere. You post at outsidethebeltway.com, unless there are two barking retards using the name Zelsdorf Kleenex-Boner III on the blogosphere.

To anybody who may know: what's up with Bill Jempty? Is he alright?

::hyperbolist

Sara Palin rocks!

Hyperbolist... Not so much.

Jp2, My Sister had Down syndrome and yes, My Mother was in a car accident before She was born.

That You can take cheap trashy swipes at other peoples lives because You dont like there success or viewpoints shows You to have no redeemable qualities at all.

::914

Palin makes Obama look so crazy.

Can anyone imagine Palin proposing to abolish our nuclear arsenal and then saying their is no need for inspections? That we can trust the Russians?

Obama is so crazy. And all the Palin haters love Obama.

Case closed.

::Thomas Jackson

Dr. Socks over at Reclusive Leftist came up with the best explanation about why there's so many lies about Palin floating around.

These people don't hate Palin because of the lies; the lies exist to justify the hate.

The reality of Sarah is completely unimportant - what's more important is the image of her, and the threat it represents. So everything possible is being done to tear down that image...

::JLawson

For hyperbolist: Bill blogs here, as well. http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/tag/bill-jempty/

::LaMedusa

This just in...!

Sarah Palin Not Subject of FBI Investigation

And this also..

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead

::_Mike_

re: retired military

Here's a link to the Colmes story..
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/08/31/you-stay-classy-alan-colmes.php

::_Mike_

Jp2,
Care to explain how Downs Syndrome can be caused by anything done in the 3rd trimester? 2nd? 1st?

::SCSIwuzzy

Jp2

"From the screen shot, Colmes makes no mention of Palin's poor, stupid choice possibly causing disability, as you stated earlier."

I fully concur with your assesment that the article didnt mention the DOwn's syndrome.

Now if you would kindly give your opinions on the quesions posed in post 35. In short, if it werent for the downs syndrome, why even mention the late pregnancy plane trip especially since the baby suffered no effects because of it. Again, if the baby was born perfectly normal then would discussion of her flight even have taken place?

The fact is that many many people believe that Colmes was talking about Palin's child having Downs syndrome. You can argue that that isnt what he meant but then why did he remove the article?

::retired military

Speaking for myself, from the left, I don't have contempt for Palin's family. I do have contempt for her shameless use of them as political props and the victim role she continually plays.

Actually Palin speaks to a decided minority of the electorate - the far right - as demonstrated in the last election. Her poll numbers have even dropped in Alaska and I suspect after her latest I quit escapade will drop even further.

You made a nice projection that liberals hate her because of her son Trig. Do you have anything to support that red herring? I happen to be a supporter of the right to choose but I admire and respect her decisions (other than her use of Trig as a political prop) to have her child.

::hgg

As a traditional Republican who cares more about economics than trivial and ultimately meaningless issues such as abortion and nativity scenes, I can tell you that my hatred of Palin comes from the fact that the religious right and conservative Christians have hijacked my old party.

The GOP used to be a party for intellectuals, professionals, etc. Now it's mostly a party for Bible thumpers.

Palin epitomizes everything that has gone wrong with the GOP and I cannot stand that she is so popular. And yet buffaloes running voluntarily off the cliff, must of the right continues to follow this disaster of a lady.

::Bonaparte

Sarah Palin's experience suggests that no woman who's actively raising kids should run for national office. Show the kids in public and some like hgg in post #2 think the kids are being used for political purposes. Don't show them in public and others will think there's something to hide. If there are kids 16 or older people will be trying to dig up dirt on them to use against their mom. It's a double standard in that it doesn't apply to men so much. I don't think conservatives would have acted this way, but now that liberals have set the lower standard, it will be applied across the board.

::Mac Lorry

I suspected you were clueless, and the more you write, the more you prove it. You're projecting your own feelings here, HughS. You must think everyone hates Trig because you do.

We don't hate SP, we just knew she was a fraud from the start with her pitbull-lipstick bullshit. We also knew she was a lightweight who had never been on the national or world stage and was completely unprepared to be a VP or prez. This lipstick-wearing pitbull uses a legal team to go after anyone who says anything about her or her conservative-values-train-wreck family or administration.

Then she moans about her mounting legal woes.

She's a moron.

Imagine how much she paid her lawyer to make a public announcement ON JULY FREAKIN' 4TH to denounce that Alaska blogger who said Palin resigned because of an impending scandal. Come on. She a national figure. There's not going to be a defamation lawsuit. Her lawyer knows it. It would be laughed out of court like O'Reilly's lawsuit against Franken.

And she's fed up? Really? That's a thin-skinned pitbull.

She's a quitter. And no one likes a quitter. It's very anti-American Dream. Why does she hate America so much, HughS?

::Larry Dickman

I'd like to commend poster 2 (hgg) for a rational and polite counterpoint, but the whole premise is nonsense. Palin was selected by the Republicans because of who she is and that includes being the governor, wife, & mother. It certainly didn't hurt that she is attractive and well spoken. Her family is integral to her very being. That said, the news media are the ones who kept shifting the emphasis to her children. It was amazing to watch 'progressives' question her about whether a woman could be a proper mother and handle the job of a VP (which is what, exactly?). Andrew Sullivan spent many many hours ruining what has otherwise been a solid carrer as a writer due to his obsession with Trig. It wasn't Palin; it was the media, and make no mistake, the media had to do something quick because her speech at the national convention made regular folks forget about Barry if only for a week or so.

::RicardoVerde

"Trig Palin's very existence makes the abortion advocates squirm in their seats and sweat."

Um. No. Why do rightwingers always trumpet this? It's genuinely confusing to me where you all came up with this. Because, let me tell you, I'm a pro-choice feminist activist, which is to say I come into contact with a lot of lefties every single day, and I have *never* *ever* *ever* heard one of them express any hatred or fear or resentment or *whatever* about Trig Palin.

In fact, not a single one of Sarah Palin's brood means anything to me at all. I don't care what she does with her womb; what I care about is her attempts to control what *I* can do with mine. It's really that straightforward. What about the existence of Trig Palin would help determine whether or when I can or should be a mother? Here, let me help: nothing. He's a nonfactor. Except in the minds of KoolAid-drunk wingnuts like you.

::Michelle

As a traditional Republican who cares more about economics than trivial and ultimately meaningless issues such as abortion and nativity scenes, I can tell you that my hatred of Palin comes from the fact that the religious right and conservative Christians have hijacked my old party.

Hi Moby.

::Eric

Um, I think the above comments have proven the point HughS.

The attacks on Trig are a disgrace. Go to some of the above links and prepare to GAG.

::soozer

oops

Um, I think the above comments have proven the point HughS.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Meant to say proven YOUR point HughS.

::soozer

"Sarah Palin has been vilified unlike any politician I have seen in my lifetime. "

I think that's an arguable point. W was savaged by the media/left (same thing) for 8 years, non-stop.

::RB

Of course they fear Palin. She's a grown-up.

::davidt

LOLOLOL. You obviously hit a nerve Hugh. Good post.

::ODA315

In politics, one has to be tough. Reagan took shots...both Bushes and both Clintons took shots. Regardless of one's politics, if you can't handle the glare and attack of the media, the opposing parties, or endless criticism, stay out of politics, because it gets tougher at each level. This isn't a place for thin skins, or to look for excuses.

::Neil

A lot of people are putting a lot of effort into the, "Palin quit/Palin is a quitter," meme.

Palin hasn't quit, she isn't a quitter.

Palin's 4th of july message from her facebook account...

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=99477538434

"The response in the main stream media has been most predictable, ironic, and as always, detached from the lives of ordinary Americans who are sick of the "politics of personal destruction". How sad that Washington and the media will never understand; it's about country. And though it's honorable for countless others to leave their positions for a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I make. But every American understands what it takes to make a decision because it's right for all, including your family.

I shared with you yesterday my heartfelt and candid reasons for this change; I've never thought I needed a title before one's name to forge progress in America. I am now looking ahead and how we can advance this country together with our values of less government intervention, greater energy independence, stronger national security, and much-needed fiscal restraint. I hope you will join me. Now is the time to rebuild and help our nation achieve greatness!"

Palin's press release on her resignation as Governor...

http://www.gov.state.ak.us/exec-column.php

"But I have given my reasons... no more "politics as usual" and I am taking my fight for what's right - for Alaska - in a new direction."

"We are not retreating. We are advancing in another direction."

"I do not want to disappoint anyone with my decision; all I can ask is that you trust me with this decision - but it's no more "politics as usual". "

Nowhere does she say she is quitting. On the contrary, she makes it clear that she will remain active in politics, on a national level, for the benefit of both Alaska and the nation.

::davidt

A few of the posts offer excellent substantiation for the premise of the article.

If the Palins had hidden Trig, they would have been accused of covering up; since they put him out in the open they are accused of exploitation. By the way, the response from parents with special needs children all over the country belies hgg's accusation. They felt that showcasing Trig was very beneficial. We have their own words as evidence.

Palin has announced that she is out of the arena of elective politics, but people of a certain mind-set cannot let go. If anything the invective has increased in intensity. There has to be some pathology at work.

::Oldflyer

Funny thing - whenever you get a 'conservative' speaking about their 'hatred' of Palin, you can almost automatically figure they're not conservative at all. You don't see much mention of hatred of someone by conservatives - because it's a PERSONAL attack, not an attack on the policies or positions held.

Personally, I don't HATE Obama - but I dislike his policies and positions, and looking into his background I don't much care at all about his family life or what his kids do. (OMG! THEY DIDN'T BEHAVE IN SCHOOL! OMG!OMG!OMG!!!!!!HE'S OBVIOUSLY NOT QUALIFIED TO LEAD THE COUNTRY!) That sort of stuff is GARBAGE, plain and simple - and is a handy way to avoid actual engagement on the issues.

When I look at his PROFESSIONAL background, I don't see a damn thing that qualifies him to run a city, much less a state, much less the country. (Google up Grove Parc, if you want to see what he's 'done' for people.) Palin? She's got a hell of a lot more actual leadership experience than Obama has - yet who is held up by the left as being incompetent?

"The answer is that the Left knows that Palin speaks to a large constituency in the middle class that is becoming more organized and vocal as each month of this economic collapse worsens."

Which is why there's such a push to discredit her. She CANNOT be allowed to gain any political traction. If she starts hooking up with the 'tea party' crowd, then you're going to see a massive change in the American political scene.

That middle class is seeing more and more that the Democrats, for all their supposed 'love' of the middle class, really don't give two shits about them as anything other than a money source that the Dems can then use to buy votes from the folks who don't or won't work and can't WAIT for a raise on their handouts! And the more rhetoric there is about 'caring' for the middle class, as in 'caring enough to provide jobs and health care', the people are seeing that the cost of 'providing' of that 'caring' is a hell of a lot more than they ever dreamed in their worst nightmares.

Something's got to give.

::JLawson

If she can't handle the media, how will she be able to look at Russia from her porch?

::Larry Dickman

THUNK!

[The sound of another attempt of LD to recover after a sound thrashing]

::epador

We don't hate SP

Yes you do. Or, if you don't specifically, most of the vocal Democrats do, and use any means possible to trash her. Note how your following complaint against her is completely made up, for example:

This lipstick-wearing pitbull uses a legal team to go after anyone who says anything about her or her conservative-values-train-wreck family or administration.

False.

Then she moans about her mounting legal woes.

You might note that her "mounting legal woes" are almost 100% caused by a handful of Democrats (a couple of then call themselves Republicans, but since they were lifelong Democrats until immediately before filing their complaints, you can guess how true that is - see "As a traditional Republican" above), who keep filing unwarranted "ethics' charges against her.

So far, they're zero for 18. Yep, out of all of those actual complaints against Palin, ZERO have ended up sticking (and even the high-ranking Democrats in Alaska have noticed how stupid most of the complaints were). Which is why there's a few hundred thousand dollars in legal defense fees looming over the Palin bank account.

...and then morons pretend that it's somehow HER fault...

::cirby

Imagine the world Palin is trying to create, in which instead of a superior race, Palin breeds a stupider race. 20 years from now, she'll only be in her late 60s. She'll be able to run for President on the Retard ticket . . . no doubt with full support of Retardeds, Retarded Sympathizers, and the Politically-Correct.

This comment is totally beyond the pale, when we all know that Nazi Germany wanted a master race. The Dems are the one that preach abortion and other tactics to keep the so-called infeirors down, i e Planned Parenthoods sponsorship of abortion on demand for every woman. This sounds just like what Hitler and his henchmen wanted

::Stan25

"Trig Palin's very existence makes the abortion advocates squirm in their seats and sweat."

See, right-wingers think like this because the very existence of gays makes them squirm in their seats and sweat. So naturally they think everyone else is like them and everyone else has innate hatred of others based on who they are instead of what they do. That's why Republicans will continue to spew this nonsense about how liberals are "afraid" of Palin (yeah... the way we were afraid of Quayle). And why you have a post like #15 trying to spin the FACT that she's quitting as governor into "she's not quitting". And that's why Republicans will continue to be laughed at.

::bob

I fear you, too, misunderstand Sarah Palin.

She's not a Republican...she's a Conservative.

Her job will not be to raise money for Republicans.

IF she returns to political life, I believe it will be as an advocate for a true third Party.

Since people who call themselves "conservatives" make up the largest percentage of Americans ( 40 percent ), and since the two big issues of the next couple of years will be the economy and energy, I think Sarah will be well-positioned to take advantage of both parties.

She has the charisma to reach the people, going around both parties.

I think she can do it...head a third party. Maybe it could not win in 2012. But it will exist and it will be a sizeable number.

Only war could change things. And war also would work to the advantage of someone thinking outside the rarified atmosphere of Mount Congress.

::Patti

Mr.Dickman,
The Left must be prescient according to
your above scenario about Sarah Palin,
What else about the future can you factually
tell us about the future.

::maggie

The left does not hate Palin, they fear her. The reason they fear her is because she speaks the truth. When she speaks she makes the ideas the left believes in sound stupid. She speaks from the heart to the heart. She knows Obama is not Robin Hood, just robbin. When she talks of constitutional government it scares the shit out of the left. You on the the left. Be afraid, very afraid.

::Zelsdorf Ragshaft III

Uh, have you noticed ALL politicians end up under the microscope?

And as for Trig being a 'living breathing indictment of the abortion industry' I think 'political football' is a more concise way of saying that. He's a kid. Let the poor kid be a kid, not some standard bearer for whatever your political hobby horse is.

I know people who are pro-choice who've adopted more kids than that blow-hard Pat Buchanan has. Some of the kids are special needs kids, not that they are going for some kind of martyr/sainthood like Caribou Barbie is. They're just trying to do some good by taking care of a kid.

Good night y'all,

Liberal Nutjob

Also, I eat pork products and shoot guns, so suck it.

::Liberal Nutjob

Liberal Nutjob:

We know. We read about the Duke faculty members who adopted back babies and then pimped them out for queer rape.

It was a very Lefty, pro choice sort of decision to make in communion with the progressive community that is academia.

Did I mention I also drink chablis and eat brie. And no I won't be joining you and Barney Frank.

::Thomas Jackson

Hillary's physical attributes must be hidden by
customized clothing and slanted liberal fashion
prose. Michelle wanders through gushing fashion
commentary wearing some really tacky crap.
Palin could wear a Saran-Wrap bathrobe and
embarrass both of these liberal lionesses.

That's why liberal babes HATE her.
That's why I have stock in Saran-Wrap.

::Trajan

Obama owns NYT/NBC/CBS/ABC/WaPo/CNN/MSNBC/GE,
etc. My problem is, the converse is true.
Sounds like a Class A, gold-plated daisy
chain to me. Why are we not angry?

::Trajan

The level of rationalization here regarding Palin's implosion is truly, honestly pathetic. Do you people have any clue how ridiculous you sound?

This woman was a walking, talking disaster, a lightweight and a fraud that anyone with a working brain could see. You want to keep propping her up, go right ahead. It says more about your ability to decipher wishful thinking from reality and personal crediblity than it is ANY reflection on the rest of us.

And also make nasty remarks about me because I posted this. Remember, I'm the real subject here, not Palin. If you defer your defense of her by criticizing me you win, right?

::SteveP

RicardoVerde thinks Palin is well spoken. I'm just pointing that out. If someone can explain what, if anything, resembles well spokenness in her resignation speech I would like to hear it.

I will also note that this statement:
"Trig Palin's very existence makes the abortion advocates squirm in their seats and sweat."

is a complete projection. Trig Palin is little more thyan an after thought. I will freely admit that I detest Sarah Palin, but it has nothing to do with Trig. Why do conservatives go so bananas over this megalomaniacal know-nothing? I honestly fail to comprehend. You really want her to be president? Seriously? This is the best you guys have? Or, let me put it another way, you think Sarah Palin is the best this country has to offer, for real?

::It's All About The Hamiltons