You don't understand Rick. If you can 'deem' a bill passed, you can 'deem' good CBO numbers.

These numbers are immpeccably accurate because they've been run through the IPPC global warming computers. who could argue with those?

Actually, we all know what they hope to do with savings on those older folks -the ad rtells us that people 50 and over own 80% of the nation's private wealth.

Barry can bribe and fudge all he wants but him and his fellow commie's are soon going down in flames.

Re: "House Democrats are trumpeting a new Congressional Budget Office report saying that the "reconciled" Senate version of the Obama healthcare bill will save $120-$130 billion in the first ten years, and more after that."

You know, before Obama came along, those use to be pretty large numbers.

Now they seem almost trivial.

If there is any American who does not realize that any grand social program developed by our government is at its very core designed with bankruptcy as its ultimate outcome then he/she must be dead or in a coma.

I think, given the statements by Pelosi and Obambi in the last 2 days, a laugh track is the only thing missing behind their claims of fiscal prudence and democratic ideals.

How come I had to take a urine test for my minimum wage job (after losing my real trade job of 25 years) and senile & addled cretins like Pelosi and Reid and a former crack head current POTUS doesn't have to when the fate of our freedom is in the balance?

Note:

Pay for 10 years, but only get 6 year of service... that's how they can claim 'deficit reduction'.

Since when was 6 for the price of 10 a good deal ?

Quote of the Day:

"Now a lot of us love America and we don't want to see this transformation into something that is unrecognizable this European style of health care in this case we're talking about but no so many of us who love America and believe in what our founding fathers providentially had crafted for us via our documents including our Constitution we don't agree with this fundamental transformation of America that Obama promised us."
~Sarah Palin

Adrian, that "transcript" is more coherent than most of your rantings, LOL

This is not the CBO report you seek...you don't need to see a CBO report...this Bill is deemed passed...you love Queen Pelosi

Hmmm, interesting.

On a day where we may be only days or hours away from the massive dem majority in the house "deeming" a bill passed which will result eventually in the federal govt controlling 1/6th more of the economy (in addition to the 2 car companies and all the heavily controlled financial institutions), when the dems have a near-filibuster proof number of members in the senate, and the Presidency, Adriane decides to provide a "quote" (without link, why?) attributed to a non-office holding ex-gov from Alaska whom every lib and democrat claims is completely irrelevant.

Why?

Well, we know why. They want to talk about anything except what the massive dem majorities in government are trying to do.

Sort of like Lenin murduring millions while pointing fingers at those darn kulaks and counter-revolutionaries.

The left.

Their tactics have never changed.

Because they can't change.

The outright deceit being peddled in this health care legislation is stunning.

We are supposed to take at face value that cutting 500 billion from Medicare and spending it on other programs will strengthen Medicare.

We are being asked to take at face value that future insurance premiums are lower because the goverment will give you a kickback. A kickback that the government extracted from you in the form of new taxes in the first place.

We are expected to take at face value a program that taxes us for 10 years but only pays out benefits for 6 years as "deficit reducing".

Democrats really do think we are ignorant.

Liars and the lies they tell. Hussein out lying his dumbass off again touting fictitios demoncrat shellgame numbers.

Wow! 900 billion falsified savings over 10 years? Hell! He's already indebted the Country to the tune of -22 trillion his first stinking year as ACORNS chief swindulator. That and add or shall I say subtract the 12 million jobs he has already stolen away and he is most certainly, wait for it......

Worst President EVAH!!!!!

The farther out any so-called "deficit reduction" is, the less likely that it will come to pass. As I understand it, MassCare is already at 4 times its originally projected cost. I think we'll be lucky if ObamaCare costs only 4 times what he and his minions say it will.

"The Congressional Budget Office is non-partisan. It is that office that created this cost estimate, not the Dems or the administration."

Stevie, you are a fucking imbecile. Glad you don't do my house hold budgeting. Figure it out genius. Tax NOW for the 1st four years, then SPEND for six years. Then say that ACCURATELY reflects the TRUE cost over 10 years.

You want the REAL numbers? Look at the first four years of cost projection by the CBO: around $17 billion. Cost for the following SIX years: over $640 BILLION!

Think about that you stupid fucking shit! WHY so little the first 4 years, why SO MUCH the next 6 years? Because you dumb ass, Nancy and Company gamed the system. If you want the TRUE COST for a full 10 years of implementation it will be in the area of $1.8 TRILLION. But idiots like you won't realize that until 2024. Too late then to realize you've been had.

Just like your marvelous "Social Security".

Hey Stevie, want to see your future under ObamaCare? This just in:

"Medicaid customers in the state of Washington will no longer be able to get prescriptions filled at Walgreens."

Or is your Obamassiah going to pass a law mandating that businesses go bankrupt waiting for the government to pay their bills?

Figures lie and liars figure! And that's just simple truth, folks!

So they have gone from jobs saved or created to money saved or created. One can only wonder what follows that, the Earth saved or created?

$12 trillion in debt. $1.6 trillion deficit forecast for this year, and trillion-dollar deficits forecast for the next decade.

We get about $2 trillion a year in revenue from the IRS.

And now there's indications the credit rating of the US may be potentially downgraded, which will make borrowing money more difficult, at higher interest rates. Business is in a decline.

We can't grow the economy to get more revenue unless there's energy. 'Green' power's not going to cut it, we can't build nukes, and we can't drill.

But somehow passing health care's going help make the US economy solvent? If someone could explain how collecting more taxes so the government can pay money out (with associated wastage in the process) to insurances companies will make the whole system more efficient or turn us from a debtor nation to an economically healthy country, please tell me how. Because I'm really, really not seeing it.

HEY STEVIE! More good news:

"Walgreens follows Bartell Drugs, which stopped taking new Medicaid patients last month at all 57 of its stores in Washington, though it still fills Medicaid prescriptions for existing customers at all but 15 of those stores."

Stevie, your gonna LOVE ObamaCare. Maybe you can get your prescriptions filled IN CANADA. IF you can find a doctor to write one.

That's it Stevie. Change gears. LOOK OVER THERE!

The Congressional Budget Office says that Spendulus will harm the economy, not help it."

And as I recall Stevie, you were ALL FOR "The Stimulus", because it was going to keep unemployment below 8%. It had 'shovel ready jobs'.

Let's face it Stevie, you're a Kool Aid drinker. Why don't you hop back over to DK. Who knows, maybe your Obamassiah will drop by and you can kiss his ass.

li'l stevie: "Why not? Obama is in favor of nuclear power."

A safe position to take, since he knows dems in congress will never allow more nuke plants to be built.

Quick question for Steve Green: Does the CBO estimate of "savings" over the first 10 years include taxes for 10 years but spending for only 6?

yes or no?

This is an easy one.

I'm popping the popcorn as I await your amusing and silly "non-answer".

Wow, throwing out diversions and straw men like we're in a carnival side show. Or Obama at a Fox News interview. Well, Sideshow Bob AKA SG, no one here is buying it.

Drago, Stevie never answers questions. That's not covered in the DNC talking points.

Just ask Barry. He was all talking points last night. And was getting pissed off when pressed for details. President Empty Suit has ALWAYS been light on details.

The CBO estimates what Congress provides them.

Congress asked the CBO to estimate the cost of billing for 10 years but only providing service for 6 years. (along with other scams used to make the scam

It's like saying Enron was honest and upfront because their calculators worked.

"Why not? Obama is in favor of nuclear power."

That's what he says. But really - how many projects have been approved and STARTED?

By the time all the regulatory hurdles are lifted, and all the environmentalist objectors are finished with their years in court, how many years and billions of dollars do you think will have been spent before the first shovelful of dirt is turned and construction started?

I'm estimating about a billion per, and five years. And then we can expect regulatory 'changes' as construction nears finishing, requiring extensive/expensive rework and billions more added onto the costs of each plant.

With luck, Southern Company will have a license they applied for two years back approved by the end of next year. That's 4 years - IF there's no further delays.

Despite the financing, the reactors are far from a done deal: their design has not yet been fully approved by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, whose staff has raised questions about whether changes made to harden the plant against aircraft attack had made it more vulnerable to earthquakes.

The builders hope to have a license to build and run the plant by the end of next year, under a revised process that is supposed to eliminate problems that caused huge cost overruns in the 1970s and 1980s, when regulatory changes during construction added billions to costs. About 100 reactors were abandoned during construction in that era.

Of course, China could do it faster, but their government actually WANTS to build the things.

stupid li'l stevie!

Stevie, please explain how "loan guarantees" result in permits being issued, environmental impact statements being completed, environmental group-inspired lawsuits being resolved in a timely or cost effective way.

I'll keep popping popcorn while you avoid answering.

BTW stevie, did you not "understand" the 10-years of taxes, only 6-years of benefits basis for the CBO estimate of the dems health care takeover bill?

Can't just trust the headlines, Stevie. I got my data from the same article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/business/energy-environment/17nukes.html

As Drago points out (and as was pointed out in the article) regulatory requirements can effectively cancel any project.

little stevie is a fascist in training.

Steve, I don't believe anyone here is calling the CBO a liar except you.

The CBO is required to score the cost of a bill exactly as the bill is written over a 10 year span.

Here's the thing, the Democrats wrote the bill so that the bulk of the services don't start for 6 years. This great Healthcare plan that the Democrats have sold as a crisis that needs to be fixed right now, won't actually START to take effect for 6 years.

Why? So that it can make the inital 10 year cost look smaller because there is only 6 years of actual services over the first ten years.

The CBO scoring has the cost at $940 Billion over the first 10 years. Over the long run it is NOT a cost reduction. By 2019 the cost is $216 Billion/year. Take that number and multiply it by the next ten years, and the cost is $2.16 TRILLION. That doesn't account for any growth. The cost over each subsequent decade will be more than TWICE the cost of the first decade.

The Democrats are lying to the American people about the way this works. This is exactly the same kind of accounting that ENRON used.

. . . you must be so frightened now that you realize this will pass...

Well, yeah, I'm frightened at the prospect of the destruction of our health care industry. Everyone should be.

Steve Green wrote:

Ooops, you guys are wrong again. How predictable.

Which is a funny statement coming from the dolt who believes the House of Representatives uses a filibuster.

By the way, anyone ever see the movie "The Abyss"? (Great film, loads of fun...)

That was filmed in underwater sets at a partially-completed nuclear power plant that had been abandoned because of "An uncertain economy, stringent federal regulations on nuclear plants and a decrease in electrical use"

Stevie -

How many nuclear power regulatory requirements did CLINTON relax? And how many plants did HE build?

Zero. And zero.

And I think Bush had a LOT more going on in his Presidency than Clinton did. So what was Clinton's excuse?

"Yes, progress takes time - but the construction of new nuclear power plants is moving forward."

No, it's not. The LICENSING is. Construction is something entirely different.

I'm trying to understand the dem logic of all this. I know, oxymoron.

As Jlawson stated: "$12 trillion in debt. $1.6 trillion deficit forecast for this year, and trillion-dollar deficits forecast for the next decade."

And the dems brag about a bill that [might] save $120-$130 billion in the first ten years. A bill which would cost about $940 billion over ten years.

No wonder this country is going bankrupt.

As Obama himself has stated: "We Can't Treat Tax Dollars Like "Monopoly Money."

The larger point is that this bill doesn't "save" anything. All the CBO does is push buttons on the calculators. The bill will be funded by taking money away from Medicare, and raising fees and taxes. Nothing is "saved."

Yeah Stevie, don't analyze, just 'cut and paste'.

Here some more good news for you.

"The number of newly laid-off workers requesting jobless benefits fell slightly last week for the third straight time. But initial claims remain above levels that would signal net job gains."

Just remember Stevie, the same folks telling you their program is gonna "save money" are the same one's who predicted their wonderful "Stimulus" would keep unemployment BELOW 8%.

You remember "Stimulus" don't you Stevie? As I recall, you were all for it. Want to trot out that list of "millions of jobs saved"?

Steve Green! Act now and you get 6 years of Obamacare for the price of 10 years!

In D.C., that's called savings, baby!

Hurray! Act now! Scams like this won't last long! errr.. I mean.. Deals.. Deals like this..

Oh, and Stevie, I'm still waiting for a reply on the earlier post. WHY are costs only around $17 BILLION the 1st 4 years and over $640 BILLION the next 6? How's that work out Stevie? How'd they do the math? Didn't Enron tank trying to do the same thing?

Take 5 folks, get a cup of coffee, smoke if ya got 'em. Stevie will be right back with his next 'cut and paste'.

Don't expect answers to your questions. Stevie, like Barry, is light on details, but GREAT on talking points.

I thought Stevie got squashed yesterday.

Here I was all hopey and stuff.

Hey Stevie, come back, I was wrong!

The cost of coverage for the last 6 years of the 10 year CBO report IS NOT $640 BILLION.

It's $923 BILLION! Sorry. That'll teach me to use ObamaMath.

Steve Green has some pathetic, pitiful need to post his claim that he has stocks and that he's going on vacation. Steve Green, take some of those great big stock profits and buy a hooker next week. It'll do you a world of good.

Oh, and don't look at Obama's approval rating. Even a hooker can't do anything for that.

Hey, Stevie - "It'll reduce the deficit by $120-$130 billion in the first ten years - and$1.2 trillion in the second decade."

That's $120 billion a year. Think we'll still be racking up trillion-dollar annual deficits by that time?

It used to be $100 billion was considered an incredible amount, and a deficit like that was unthinkable. Now, it's chump change for the government. It's insane.

I think we need to reassess the situation. If the folks in Washington can't (or don't want to) tell the difference between millions, billions, and trillions and keep thinking they can easily spend 75% more each year than the IRS can collect, it's time to get some folks in there who DO understand the difference, and won't toss money out like it's Monopoly confetti!

Stevie is over at Timmy Geithner's house right now. Their running the printing presses. Stevie says the government 'has plenty of money', especially now that Timmy's gotten that second press thanks to the "Stimulus".

Steve Green

Some vacation homework.

a. Find one govt program that came in on or under budget. Just one.

b. Name one entitlement program which actually cost the same or less than the govt beaurocrat who suggested it said it would.
Just one.

1...2...3... 596...597

StevoGreeno- Der Leader nixed offshore drilling and is lying about Nuclear power now. The gloves are coming off now that Der Leader has lied and lied and lied.
Liar in Chief. Jail won't be good enough for him come 2012.

Stevie boy

You may wnat to take a look at this

http://www.qando.net/?p=7542#comments

for a decent article on the budget numbers from the CBO.

Key statements in here (that rational (not liberal) people pay attention to are things like -

Note also the chart in the CBO report how the "net cost" is accomplished:
Taxes and penalties. Penalties on individuals and employers. Taxes on "Cadillac" plans. Question - what happens when those all dry up as revenue streams? The scoring assumes a constant stream. I think we all know better than that. Of course the answer is they must find new revenue streams, i.e. new taxes (or "penalties" as they're sure to deem them). Additionally full into the spending curve of the plan, we're looking at around 200 billion a year. Over 10 years that 2 trillion dollars

Again, remember - the CBO's scoring assumes absolutely no changes in the bill, revenue streams or projected spending over those 10 years. That's absolute nonsense on a saltine cracker and we all know that.
There is no way those revenue streams remain constant, there's no way the spending on health care - if this is enacted - won't be increased as the bill is built upon and despite the CBO's guess for the following 10 years in which it says it will continue to "save" money, there's very little to support that premise.

Also from the CBO report

"The imprecision of that calculation reflects the even greater degree of uncertainty that attends to it, compared with CBO's 10-year budget estimates.
"

Doesnt sound like the CBO believes its own calculations.

Rick - "deficits over the following decade would be much greater -- Democrats said $1.2 trillion -- although such long term forecasts are more speculative."

Not only are the demturds full of shit, but liars as well, the CBO is only allowed (by law) to score the first ten years of any bill.

They're not speculators, they'er liars.

s green..... "small chunk of my 2010 stock market profits"

Better check your portfolio for companies with employees of 100 or more.

Those companies will be slammed with a fee/tax/penalty of 65,000$ if they don't have health insurance.

Bet their profits, assuming they stay in business, and your stocks take a large downward hit.

Steve is quoting Devin Barber, stand up comedian, proponent of a single payer healthcare system, and "Left of Right" commentator. Steve doesn't care what the CBO has written or the fact that they're just beginning to look at all the discretionary spending associated with the bill. Poor Steve. At some point late in his life he's going to need hip replacement surgery and he's going say, "Damn, this isn't what I was rooting for."

Speaking of 'the most open, most honest, most ethical Congress, evah!'

FROM PEW RESEARCH:

When asked for a single word that best describes their impression of Congress, "dysfunctional," "corrupt," "self-serving" and "inept" are volunteered most frequently. Of people offering a one-word description, 86% have something negative to say, while only 4% say something positive

Psssst s green... your dividends are getting slammed asshole:

Democratic congressional leaders would raise to 3.8 percent the Obama administration's proposed new Medicare tax on investment income to generate an estimated $210 billion to help fund a health-care overhaul plan.
*****
The rate is higher than the 2.9 percent President Barack Obama proposed in February. The new tax would apply to income from interest, dividends, annuities, royalties, capital gains and rents for individuals who earn more than $200,000 annually and joint filers reporting more than $250,000, according to the legislation.

History, it's a funny thing; It's there to teach us but unfort., the human race never seems to learn from it's lessons. Even recent events within the memories of a large portion of Americans are quickly forgotten, especially in our modern age.

Examples?

Social Security, the idea though good, is going to bankrupt our country and actuarilly speaking it's undeniable.

Medicare, have the costs not far exceeded the "projected" costs? Of course they have, that's why one of the few politicians I trust, one Ronald Reagan, in his Operation Coffee Cup, worked hard to defeat it, he knew there was no way to afford it without giving up our freedoms.

Medicaide, again costs have far exceeded what was promised and has become a system of graft, waste and corruption.

The lesson? Government can't provide for everyone without taking from others and without the complacent approval of those being taken from. Our founders invisioned a country where a person would succeed or fail based on their abilities and created a Constitution and included a Bill of Rights to protect individuals. Our headlong rush towards Facism is amazing and yet perplexing at the same time. Where we go after the final nail, Healthcare, is in the proverbial coffin, is one I guiltily look forward to seeing.

All rational adults understand that the numbers are a joke. It's complete smoke and mirrors. However even if by some miracle these reductions actually occur, they are so small as to be like taking one teaspoon out of the ocean.

$138 billion over 10 years is roughly $1 billion a month. We're currently running a monthly deficit of over $100 billion per month, and we're supposed to be relieved that this bill will reduce it about 1% per month?

This whole deal is a national disgrace for many reasons.

I know he is the only lib troll left,but damn.....this is not The Steve Green Blog:Featuring the Wizbang Writers. Seriously. Look at most the replies of this thread and they all start off with Stevie....no wonder he loves to be here and be the first to reply.

BTW Stevie

Did your dem talking points mention that out of that $130 billion savings that is supposed to come out of this $90 billion is due to the student loan program being attached to this.

Yeah didnt think it was in your DU talking point sheet.

I don't have to worry about my Congress Critter. She has been against this farce from day one. Being that she is the only Rep we have here in Wyoming and a solid Republican to boot, I know where she stands.

Name one entitlement program which actually cost the same or less than the govt beaurocrat who suggested it said it would.

I think Medicare D might fit the bill, actually. Not that it makes it a good idea.

Anyway, you can take this whole thread and crumple it up into a ball - the democrats have just added a ton more handouts and spending to the bill that no one has seen to buy more votes, so whatever it was 'scored' at before, that's gone out the window

SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: "I want to send a couple of messages to my colleagues in the House."

"If you voted no and [now] you vote yes, and you lose your election [in November], and you think any nomination to a federal position isn't going to be held in the Senate, I've got news for you. It's going to be held."

"Number two is, if you get a deal, a parochial deal for you or your district, I've already instructed my staff and the staff of seven other senators that we will look at every appropriations bill, at every level, at every instance, and we will outline it by district, and we will associate that with the buying of your vote. So, if you think you can cut a deal now, and it not come out until after the election, I want to tell you that isn't going to happen. And be prepared to defend selling your vote in the House."

It'd be better if you put punctuation into it, Adrian, and most oral statements don't lend themselves to transcriptions, but I understand that rules of punctuation might be a bit out of your grasp.

J.

The Dems are gonna try every trick in the book:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLemdORSx_E

Look.....it's gonna happen. House will have the
votes. Explain to me, though, how Dems scream that thousands die every week/month/year and
the bill kicks in 3-4 YEARS!!!!! Ask a Dem
about this. Should be a question to EVERY Dem
on cable TV.

They're pulling the wool over thier lies

It's even worse than commenters have already noted. Not only does the CBO figure count only 6 years of benefits against ten years of tax collection for them, they also - by law - must count the Medicare "cuts" included in the bill, $500 billion that everyone knows will NEVER be enacted.

And they ridiculed Reagan's budgets for their "rosy scenario" of projected future growth which turned out to be an underestimate!

These numbers are bogus, but don't blame the CBO. They are required by law to use the crap Congress submits to them, so don't be surprised when they deliver a crap sandwich for lunch!

"And the dems brag about a bill that [might] save $120-$130 billion in the first ten years. A bill which would cost about $940 billion over ten years."

And for February alone, the deficit was $220 billion. For one month. That pretty well wiped out the savings, and more. If that trend continues, we're looking at well over $2 trillion in deficit spending this year.

Yet somehow we're supposed to believe it's all affordable.

Tell me, when are those gold-shitting rainbow-patterned unicorns supposed to be delivered again?

Sorry about the double there....

"Yet somehow we're supposed to believe it's all affordable.

Tell me, when are those gold-shitting rainbow-patterned unicorns supposed to be delivered again?"

As soon as Barry pulls his head outta his ass and starts pushing..