And there are plenty of these companies already in the US. Way to go with the low bidder! Just wait until we find that the turbines are made with some poisonous material.

Asshat!

Funny that when we told him that "Buy American" would hurt trade relations and cost jobs he ignored us. Then turns around and allows this to happen?

Both sides of his mouth.

Golly. We forbid our manufacturers to produce certain materials and products (and/or slap them with impossible restrictions). Then we make those materials and products ESSENTIAL to our new "Green Economy".

If my CAT would still for about 30 seconds I could explain it to HER! And SHE would be able to figure it out.

Instead she's chasing a ball around on the floor. Oddly, that's all Congress & Obama are good for too!

Of course, these turbines will also be manufactured in Chinese factories which will spew all that horrible carbon that is NOT subject to Kyoto and any new treaties that Obama will sign.

The only thing "Green" Obama is interested in comes at his fundraisers.

It just seems incredulous that this could be
happening. What is the point of 'creating'
green jobs for America, if the construction
of these turbines are comig from China of
all places? This is insanity. What's the matter
with Washington?

One caveat about this: all energy development in Texas is privately funded (although there are some partial grants and funding available via the State- as energy users in Texas, we subsidize wind, geo-thermal, some solar and some oceanic wave). That being the case, investors and operators would sho could judgement in seeking the lowest cost core equipment so you can't fault the management for sourcing from China.

But this is Texas and having are own grid and under very few federal regulatory restrictions, we can damn well do as we please.

Developing the wind power industry will benefit the U.S. and U.S. manufacturers will be spawned to fill the need. Since the past administration did NOTHING to encourage development in this area, of course there aren't US manufacturers able to meet the new demand. There will be over time, not that the administration is behind it. The last administration did everything they could to support their oil industry pals.

Some of you guys really are slow thinkers, aren't you? Can't think you're way out of paper bag, in my estimation.

Vic

Rob, when you declare for Independence there in Texas there are a whole lot of us that will be looking to LEGALLY immigrate there. We've got skills, guns & ammo, and the wherewithall to help build a new nation. Just give a holler!

Re: 9

substitute "legislature" for "administration" and you might sound more coherent instead of still suffering from BDS there.

Like most decisions by the lefty nitwits, it sounded sooo good and made them all feel warm inside. Never mind the consequences, especially those unintended ones.

The only wind power the politicians are interested in producing is the big empty wind that blows everytime they open their lying yaps.

The empty long winded suit currently in the WH being the greatest example of garbage in garbage out to date.

....Just tie off Hillary and czars atop eight story towers, feed 'em unlimited quantities of speed and voila....we got all the freakin ass wind we need.
Could become Beaufort 5 category at any time, so might have to use 'stimulus' kaching for observers and early warning.

Just slap a made in China sticker on the White House while your at it.

The only green these eco-wackos want are the greenbacks their getting from suckers who listen to their bunk

Typical VIC. WELL BUSH DIDN'T......

Whiner.

Hey VIC! WHAT HAS THIS ADMINISTRATION DONE TO ENCOURAGE START UPS IN THIS COUNTRY? How much longer will we be buying FOREIGN goods for our energy needs? There's a big push in Kalifornia for solar panels. GUESS WHERE THOSE ARE COMING FROM?

I don't blame the wind farm owner for doing what they are doing. Until we make a serious, long-term commitment to renewables in this country we are going to lose to countries that have (and sadly China is ahead of us in this regard). However, regarding green collar jobs and the growth of the green economy, there is a tremendous amount happening in the US in this area regardless of our ability to get our government moving.

There are thousands of green companies generating good paying green jobs listed at http://www.greencollareconomy.com. They also have hundreds of case studies and white papers geared towards helping businesses go green and do so practically and profitably. American capitalism and the American entrepreneur is working hard to build a real green economy in this country, but until the government (the government that represents the people) sets the playing field, we will never be the world leader in the next great global industry - energy technology.

The last administration did try green.
1. Wind farms Of the Cost of Martha Vineyard but the Kennedy stopped that.
2. Wind Farms In the Desert but the Environmental Wackos stopped that.
3. Cali doing Solar panels but the most efficient ones come from Germany and are too costly to make here when cape and trade is introduced.
4. Building more Nuclear power plants but the no nuke crowd stopped that. (which would supply more power with less waste than any of these BS wind farms or Solar Collectors) It would also employ more Americans in white and Blue Collar jobs.

You know the differnce between Obama, Al Gore and Bush is. Two people talk the talk and tell everyone else how to live.
Bush just does it.

The 4,000-square-foot house is a model of environmental rectitude. Geothermal heat pumps located in a central closet circulate water through pipes buried 300 feet deep in the ground where the temperature is a constant 67 degrees; the water heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. Systems such as the one in this "eco-friendly" dwelling use about 25% of the electricity that traditional heating and cooling systems utilize.

A 25,000-gallon underground cistern collects rainwater gathered from roof runs; wastewater from sinks, toilets and showers goes into underground purifying tanks and is also funneled into the cistern. The water from the cistern is used to irrigate the landscaping surrounding the four-bedroom home. Plants and flowers native to the high prairie area blend the structure into the surrounding ecosystem.

No, this is not the home of some eccentrically wealthy eco-freak trying to shame his fellow citizens into following the pristineness of his self-righteous example. And no, it is not the wilderness retreat of the Sierra Club or the Natural Resources Defense Council, a haven where tree-huggers plot political strategy.

This is President George W. Bush's "Texas White House" outside the small town of Crawford.

Garandfan,
Vic is not a useful idiot, like us recovering liberal socialist used to call them. He is just an idiot and not worth the time to respond to.

Besides Window power is unreliable. Until you have someway to either store or supply the energy on demand.

A it spreads and more problems arise the Green Jobs will be yet another government induced bubble.

Didn't President Obama say that all the high paying green job would create a stronger economy for the American people?

I'm sure he did. He's SAID a lot.

With some people, their words actually mean something and therefore have value.

With others, they're just noise.

Thank you, #19 hcddbz for pointing out the difference.

-

The only thing about this that gives me pause is the biggest American vendor in the breaking Wind Market is GE, which has poured millions into lobbying for the passage of Cap and Trade. You don't see much written about it, but there's some unnatural relations taking place between GE and Congress, as I recall.

GE is the only large domestic manufacturer in the market, and second in the world:

1. Vestas (Denmark) 4,500 MW
2. GE Energy (United States) 3,300 MW
3. Gamesa (Spain) 3,050 MW
4. Enercon (Germany) 2,700 MW
5. Suzlon (India) 2,000 MW
6. Siemens (Denmark / Germany) 1,400 MW
7. Acciona (Spain) 870 MW
8. Goldwind (China - PRC) 830 MW
9. Nordex (Germany) 670 MW
10. Sinovel (China - PRC) 670 MW

GE is doing everything it can to buy more market share from Congress, so I'm not feeling real helpful towards GE this week.

Sorry if my previous remark about "thinking your way out of a paper bag" offended. It was directed at those who just can't understand why there isn't a full-competitive wind turbine manufacturing industry.

Especially when the article quoted and linked states as much:

The Shenyang Power Group has signed on to supply 240 of its massive 2.5-megawatt wind turbines to a 36,000-acre development in West Texas. The Wall Street Journal reports that the wind farm is also slated to receive $1.5 billion in financing from the Export-Import Bank of China.

This comes as the U.S. has increasingly out-sourced much of its wind turbine development. Less than a quarter of wind turbine components installed in the U.S. came from domestic production, and Europe currently holds the lion's share of turbine manufacturing. A Norwegian firm launched the world's first full-scale floating wind turbine this September.

As a reflection of this, just 15 percent of the 2,800 new jobs from the new wind-turbine development will take the form of U.S. jobs. The U.S. government has tried to help the nation's renewable energy industry with $500 million in grants -- but it will likely take a while for U.S. wind power manufacturers to play catch-up after struggling with an uneven market.

After 8 years of republican rule - lead by leaders who can think their way out of a paper bag but chose to favor the oil industry over alternate energy industries - it's obvious that the US has some catching up to do.

Obvious to anyone with an IQ above room temperature.

Vic

bobdog,

GE makes turbines and with the slump in Air travel Wind power is good place for them. Now I am all for companies making money. I am just against them making it through legislation. Window power and Smart Grids would be big booms for GE, that has little benefit to solving America's energy and job problems.

We debate these details of 'green' energy while ignoring the deceitful premise underlying all this.
All these wasted billion$ are being spent due to the biggest hoax ever, 'manmade global warming'.
Madness.

Now, if the argument is to make America more energy independent, I'm willing to support it. But that would mean building existing, safe nukes. Which we aren't.

Show me how I can save money and energy by using solar panels or wind turbines or whatever, and I'll happily invest in it. (And no, making conventional energy sources more expensive through more taxes, more regulations and fake enviro-religious fear does not count.)

If the honest alt-energy crowd can come up with ways to really compete with conventional energy, America is ready to join in. Using dishonest means to artificially prop up 'green' energy will cost Americans real money that we can't afford to waste. We're killing ourselves from within.

What people forget too easily is that words are cheap. Words are easy. Words are ephemeral as anything - a fact politicians have used to our detriment for decades.

Youtube's changing that. Their promises are on record, and they can't cut and run from them.

Obama has made a career on words. On telling his followers what he wanted to hear, on making deals out of the view of the camera - and persuading people that he's the best possible choice in government executives. And that's easy enough to do, really...

Words are cheap. It's when you've got to actually back up the words that things get expensive. And a lot of people are looking at what Obama's promised out and going "Hey, wait just a second..."

Seems to me like you can't grow the economy by taxing the folks who make jobs. You can't make the economy healthier by bleeding everyone with more and more taxes. You can't encourage 'green energy' on the one hand, and levy more taxes on the companies providing it with the other.

I'll give Obama points for being sincere... at the time he says the things he says. Fifteen minutes later, all bets are off, especially when the magic phrase 'What I meant to say' is uttered.

"Now, if the argument is to make America more energy independent, I'm willing to support it. But that would mean building existing, safe nukes. Which we aren't."

But we will build them.

Fox News::

Among his other top contributors are executives of Exelon Corp., the largest nuclear power operator in the nation. In 2005, Obama talked in a Senate hearing of leaving "on the table" the building of new nuclear power plants - the kind of change that has Exelon ecstatic.

Fox News wouldn't lie, know would they?

Vic

One of the reasons Exelon suports cap and tax is that they would prefer a defined set of rules spelled out in legislation rather than letting the EPA step in and set rules by fiat. Laws can be changed and influenced much more easily than the EPA can.
Also, look at Exelon's gerneration portfolio. Heavy on nukes, a decent peak hedge on the hydro side, realitively clean fossil and plenty of gas turbines.
Also notice where Exelon is headquarted. And the relationship between them and the Ayers family.
Nukes are expensive, but operational costs are stable. If oil, coal and N gas are high (and 2 out of 3 were sure to be hobbled under an Obama adminstration), nukes become much more profitable esp when you have enough to cover your base load. Every cheap MW Exelon has on the grid above their need can be sold to another utility for a profit.

"In 2005, Obama talked in a Senate hearing of leaving "on the table" the building of new nuclear power plants..."

This guy does a lot of talking, doesn't he?

When a dozen or so of the hundreds we need are actually built and brought online, I'll happily applaud.

Until then, it's all talk.

Meanwhile, we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot by raising the costs of energy at home.

But it's the only way we can get you to not use any energy, Les.

Energy consumption icky. Green shit gooood. Globoworming scary!

It's for the children.

Your toilet paper ration has just been reduced to one square of single ply per day. Use it wisely.

They have it all wrong! No toilet paper needed, just wipe with the left hand and wash your hands thoroughly afterward!

You know that is why we shake with our right hands right? Its history people!

ON topic, Vic Obama has not actually followed through with anything he has said in hearing distance of a recording device. Why would Fox reporting on something Obama said make THEM the liars? You are trying to pull a Joe Wilson on Fox when in fact it is the other way around. Technically Obama did say that, but whether he ever does anything BUT talk about it is another matter.

Me? I'm all for firing up the nukes! We have a reactor at MU as well as a full power reactor outside of town that is actually getting an upgrade. In San Diego I often drove by San Onefre Power station and I have served on Nuclear Powered Navy Carriers.

Those "NoNukes" idiots can stuff it.

JustRuss -

A lot of the no-nuke idiots point at Chernobyl and 3 Mile Island as how hazardous nuclear power can be - ignoring that Chernobyl was an accident that the engineers had to actually WORK at to get to happen (I mean, seriously, turning off all the cooling to see how long the reactor would produce power without it?) and at TMI there was very little radiation release despite the core slagging down, BECAUSE the containments and other systems worked as designed even though cooling was lost.

They also ignore the example of France - which gets 80%+ of its electricity from nuclear power. If we New-World neo-barbarians are supposed to emulate our cultured betters in the Old World, perhaps we ought to be getting our power from the same sources? I haven't seen any major pushes by the French to swap out nuclear plants for windfarms...

Vic,
Maybe that's why in Texas T.Boone Pickens is
scrapping his wind farm, and selling off 667
of his turbines.
And maybe that's why he's now buying up all the
water rights he can get his hands on to make
more millions. He was told there will be NO
new transfer lines for his wind turbine farms
by the environmentalists.
And btw way your noxious behaviour is setting you up for lots of rope.

Vic: "Obama talked [going on FIVE YEARS AGO!] in a Senate hearing of leaving "on the table" the building of new nuclear power plants..." yada yada yada.

Aside from the fact that that was the NY Daily News, not Fox....

Green energy is capital intensive rather than labor intensive. Apart from the initial manufacturing and construction jobs, there are few on-going jobs in green energy compared to fossil fuel energy. Green energy will cost U.S. jobs. If the U.S. off-shores the manufacturing jobs then we have lost much of the economic benefit that comes from building up the wind and solar energy infrastructure, and if the capital is coming from taxpayers, then it's bad policy.

Apart from radical changes in the laws governing trade more and more manufacturing jobs will go to China and India. One solution is to place a limit on the trade deficit that can exist with any other country. The whole idea of free trade is that nations have equal access to the markets in the nations they trade with. A trade deficit of more than 6 months of the normal trade volume with a given nation is prima facie proof that equal access is being denied or that, as in China's case, the monetary exchange rate is being artificially manipulated. Once such a trade deficit is reached then a substantial and progressively increasing tariff would be applied to all further imports form the offending nation until the deficit was reduced below the trigger level. Now if Obama could get the world to accept such a plan then he would go down as one of the greatest presidents of all time. As it is, he's on a path to being one of the worst.

On a personal note, everyone can do their part in going green. Stop bathing and washing cloths and you can literally go green for all your former friends to see. Just think of all the water and energy you'll save. Not only that, people won't want to gather in groups anymore and that will cut down on transmission of flu and colds :-)

bobdog,

GE makes turbines and with the slump in Air travel Wind power is good place for them. Now I am all for companies making money. I am just against them making it through legislation. Window power and Smart Grids would be big booms for GE, that has little benefit to solving America's energy and job problems.

25. Posted by hcddbz | November 1, 2009 2:37 PM | Vote up Vote down Report this comment Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

hcddbz, GE makes wind turbines as well and owns NBC....think msnbc. The CEO of GE (what's his name) is a BIG friend of the Olala so...well.. just connect da dots.

http://www.gepower.com/businesses/ge_wind_energy/en/index.htm

god bless our troops,
ol'

Someone in the White House should talk to the Spaniards about "green jobs" and what it's done to their economy. Something like 2 jobs LOST for every green job gained. That's really helping their economy.