Typical and Predictable:

Why do we even have borders? Shouldn't we just join hands with Canada and Mexico and sing Cumbaya? Why do we even care who is in our country? We can just print more money to pay for it all right?

Legal Immigrants I could see offering a pay your own way option since they will be paying taxes. Illegals should not get ANY benefits! They are here because they broke the law and every second they stay here they continue to break the law. They drain money out of the US and send it back to Mexico or other countries of origin rather than reinvest it in our economy.

How can they possibly live up to every Liberal Cliche? I can't believe this.

Was there ever any doubt? They are after all our money and enough votes to keep it!

When you are Obama and you view the US not as a sovereign nation, but as merely a semi-autonomous region of the world, and you view the government as existing not to promote the sovereign rights of the citizens, but as existing to provide for all "world citizens" within the borders, you don't believe in the idea of anyone being here "illegally".

Let's face it, the Dems no longer believe in the constitution and they no longer believe in the United States as a nation.

Obama has nothing to do with this - the Democrats in question are a small, splinter group of uber liberals.

I thought the moderator of this blog was always whining about "broad-brush" comments. This whole article qualifies.

Obama has consistently made statements over several years that align quite nicely with these congressmen.

Seeing that Obama was THE most liberal member of the Illinois Senate and The most liberal member of the US Senate, saying that these guys are just a bunch of far left kooks simply tells me that they are in the same camp that he came out of.

Right on "STEVE GREEN".

Why not more than a week ago, the usual Democratic Stalwarts who appear here were screaming that HR3200 FORBID illegals from obtaining taxpayer funded health care, and therefore JOE WILSON LIED!

Then out of the mist, Democrats inserted language penalizing anyone who tried to get health care who was not a US citizen.

Now "a small, splinter group of (Democratic) uber liberals" are screaming for the right of illegals to have US taxpayer funded health care.

Well Steve Green, you can't have it both ways. Looks like OBAMA DID LIE!!

If the current health care reform plan allowed illegal access to health care then this new provision proposed by a splinter group of uber liberals wouldn't be needed, now would it?

It proves Joe Wilson lied. The current health plan prevents illegals from gaining access - that's why these uber libbies are pushing this.

Amazing the way times always proves the right wing wrong....

Mr Green,

I note your statement:
"Obama has nothing to do with this - the Democrats in question are a small, splinter group of uber liberals."

Surely it is clear to you by now that the president himself (along with most of the majority leadership in Congress) is, in fact, ideologically one of these uber liberals?

Steve Green - What are you smoking?

The language to provide certification of legal status was inserted after Wilson said "You lie" and the dems suddenly stated they now realize it (verificatin of status) was needed. Now the dems are trying to go about it a different way.

Are you willfully ignorant, a liar or just plain stupid? I mean you can be all 3 since you a dem but I am giving you a choice.

Steve -

Yet another lib that cannot read posts, or for that matter the news.

Following Wilson's "you lie!" outburst, Senate Dems acted the following day to change the language of their bill to ensure that illegal aliens did not access a taxpayer funded system.

Subsequently, Congressional Dems are now acting to ensure that illegals DO get access.

In other words when Wilson said "You lie!" he was telling the truth and Dems acted to change the bill. Now different Dems are trying to change it back. The fact that some Dems are trying to change it back does not falsify Wilson's statement.

It's amazing how ignorance of current events allows you to make a complete ass of yourself.

Calling me names doesn't change the truth. And the truth is Joe Wilson lied.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/30/chain-email/no-free-health-care-illegal-immigrants-health-bill/

"One of its most bizarre claims is the one about free health care for noncitizens, "illegal or not."

We read the bill and its legislative summary, and could find nothing about free health care for anyone, much less noncitizens.

To confirm our examination, we turned to Jennifer Tolbert, an independent health care analyst at the Kaiser Family Foundation, a nonpartisan foundation that studies health care reform. Tolbert has read and analyzed all the major health proposals, including those of the Republicans, and the foundation provides point-by-point analyses of the plans on its Web site.

"No one's provided with free health care. That's ridiculous," she said.

Page 50, which the e-mail references, is part of Section 152, which includes a generic nondiscrimination clause saying that insurers may not discriminate with regard to "personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services."

The section says nothing about "non-US citizens" or immigrants, legal or otherwise. In fact, the legislation specifically states that "undocumented aliens" will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance, in Section 246 on page 143.

The bottom line here is the e-mail is making things up. The bill does not say anything close to "All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services." We rate this chain e-mail statement Pants on Fire!"

"The bill does not say anything close to "All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services."

That's right numbnuts, it doesn't "say it", but lack of a penalty provision would not dissuade illegals from applying.

There was also nothing in HR3200 requiring someone show proof of citizenship in order to obtain coverage.

Ergo, Democrats jump in and CHANGE HR3200 language to SPECIFICALLY PROHIBIT illegals from obtaining health care benefits.

Now WHY would they need that provision if HR3200 already excluded them?

GarandFan, trying to explain this to a liberal is like trying to teach a dog to meow. Ain't going to happen. If congress passed a law saying anyone using paper will be fined but no one enforces it, it is just words. Everyone knows this but the left. Pathetic bunch. They really believe.

Obama, on the world stage last weak. He proved he is inexperienced, incompetent and weak. ww

Steve -

This ground has been covered thoroughly at this site.

YES - the bill said that illegal aliens could not get government funded insurance.

BUT - The bill prevented any action which would verify citizenship.

IN FACT - Republicans had offered several amendments which would have provided enforcement to prevent illegals from getting insurance and the Dems shot hem down.

THEREFORE - the real effect of the bill was to allow illegals to get insurance because the only thing that prevented them from doing so was a dependence upon their conscience not to.

The bill was relying upon people committing a crime to not commit another crime. Not a likely happening.

SO - when we say that the bill allowed illegals to get insurance we refer to the effect of the bill and not the language itself.

AFTER ALL - what is important about a law is what it does and not what it says.

If the bill says that illegals cannot get insurance but prevents anyone from actually doing anything about it, then the bill does not really stop them from doing so.

So the statement that illegals could not get insurance WAS a lie. That was why the Dems acted to change the bill.

He proved he is inexperienced, incompetent and weak. ww

You mean that when they call him "President Pantywaist" they aren't praising his strength and strategic vision?

Well, one way or another we all pay for illegal immigrant care. I'd rather it be up front because it's cheaper. (And they pay into the system)

Getting paid 'under the table' = "(And they pay into the system)."

Our local 'community hospital' is supported by property taxes. Yeah, "they pay into the system".

Like the illegal who lost part of his foot while riding "illegally" on a freight train. Ran up a $75K bill at the local hospital. Railroad lawyer showed up and cut him a check on the spot for $25K to avoid any future litigation. The illegal split the next day and didn't bother to stop by the cashiers office. Go figure. After all "they pay into the system".

"Shocked, shocked I say!"

The odds of it not happening were astronomically higher than the odds of it happening, as they say, "A sure bet".

jp2 - "Well, one way or another we all pay for illegal immigrant care. I'd rather it be up front because it's cheaper. (And they pay into the system)"

Thanks for providing the most specious argument on this topic whether illegal or not.

The meme goes, "well, we pay for uninsured people when they visit the emergency room anyway."

Yes, yes we do BUT... once everyone get "free" health care all those that only used it for emergency reason now will flood the system with yearly check-ups, thousands of diagnostic procedures, dental care, optometrist visits etc.... etc.... etc.

Not that's a bad thing BUT it lays to waste any argument we "all pay" anyway, the cost will go up exponentially.

So in the end jp2 your argument is patent bullshit.

once everyone get "free" health care all those that only used it for emergency reason now will flood the system with yearly check-ups, thousands of diagnostic procedures, dental care, optometrist visits etc.... etc.... etc.

Not to mention the visits for sniffles, tiny splinters, fatigue, pimples on Friday, and those visits just because the mall is boring and it's neat to talk to a doctor about something. Notice that I didn't even bring up drug-seeking behavior.

Mr. President, You Lie!!

Steve

Do you also believe that Bill Clinton didnt have sex with Lewinksy but she had sex with him?

That all bills would be on the net for 5 datys before being voted on?

That Obama wont raise taxes on anyone making under 20k?

That GITMO will be closed within one year?

That Obama wouldnt sign a bill with earmarks?

That Obama wouldnt allow lobbyists in his administration?

I am sure you believed all those things as well.

Dumbass

Let's say the bill passed with strict enforcement of citizenship as a prerequisite for treatment.

So my 79 year old father if he got into an accident all the emergency room would do for him is try to stabilize his condition until someone in my family produced his birth certificate? And if we could not find it right away no treatment would be forthcoming until it was produced. Is that the kind of enforcement you are talking about? How compassionate!

Retired military - stop living off my tax dollars before you spout off about how terrible your president is. (And if he is not your president then you are not a US citizen.) You are a moron who wouldn't have had a future if you had not worked for the government. Was that a 20 and done, prick. Going back to Clinton, classic. Want to talk about Iran-Contra? The phrase that pays "I do not recall."

Steve, you just made your own case for immigration enforcement reform.

But rather than deal with the problem itself, Congress sees votes and kicks the can down the road. Instead, they pull almost 1,000 border enforcement officers off the border and gut border enforcement with micromanagement and starve it with inadequate funding.

I have no problem whatsoever with legal immigrants, who wait their turn and lead honest productive lives as American citizens. These folks earn their way, and I welcome them all.

On the other hand, I have a big problem with illegals, who pay nothing for the public services they consume, live on cash, pay no taxes, and live in fear of deportation in an underground economy working at shit jobs for dishonest employers. They don't file tax returns, so the IRS will not be able to tax them if they have no insurance. They are a destructive force in our economy.

The healthcare costs that 10 to 20 million illegals generate are a significant reason for the runaway healthcare mess we're in right now. Solve immigration enforcement and you might be able to afford to avoid cutting benefits in Medicare.

Not to mention tort reform, which would cost the federal government NOTHING (besides campaign contributions from tort lawyers). You see complaints about evil insurance companies every time a Democrat finds a microphone, but you never seem to hear a Democrat complain about malpractice insurance and the jackpot justice tort system. It's not even mentioned in any of the current health care legislation before Congress. Ask any OB/Gyn, cardiologist or Neurosurgeon that isn't active in left wing politics. I know it's old news, but a lot of them are simply going to stop practicing if healthcare reform passes.

Fix illegal immigrant enforcement and reform the tort system and many of the cost problems in the medical system are solved.

Like Cap and Trade, health care reform is about money, politics, and the acquisition of power by a party lost in its own rhetoric and delusions of their own superiority over the people they are supposed to serve.

WC --

Your dad got a valid Social Security number, in his own name? How about a valid driver's license or ID?

A Medicare card? A record with the VA? How about a record with the state elections office?

Then he'd be covered. No problems.

I know you're grasping at straws, man, and that's okay. I realize you've figured out that this whole scam you've diligently supported is about to fall apart, because a lot of people are realizing that THEY are the ones getting ripped off in the name of YOUR compassion. And for some obscure reason, they tend to resent that.

Now, you can insult people all you want, (and you do, don't ya? Poor sap.) but something you seem to have missed is that your insults don't do anything towards convincing anyone that your position is even tenable, much less correct. But if that's what it takes to get you through the night, then go for it.

WC-

your whole premise is ludicrous. Obama's plan is that everyone is required to get insurance or the pay a $1900 fine. If they don't pay the fine they do a year in jail (inmates are covered by the state).

Your dad would be required to get insurance before his tragic accident.

Emergency rooms would still be required to treat people regardless of insurance (like Michelle O's employer, who treated a boy who had his lip torn off by a dog by giving him tylenol and telling him to ice it)

Your asserting is stupid and ignorant. All the fear tactics are used by the left. They always have been.

Jim M and JLawson,

I am not sure what plan you think I have been supporting. I would like each of you to lean over to the person next to you and prove you are an American citizen. Right now. Drivers licenses don't prove citizenship. So you are saying you want the government to pay for a background check of every person that shows up at the emergency room without a passport or birth certificate on their person. I can see how that would save millions or even bazillions. Even a birth certificate, past military service, or past voter registration cards do not not prove you are an American citizen. People can change citizenship over a lifetime.

I love how the people that tried to scare me into voting republican by telling me how the country will turn socialist/fascist/communist, the terrorist will attack, I will be taxed to death, etc. are accusing me of using fear. Priceless. What do the republicans have to offer other than fear?

And jim m when you say Obama's plan, when exactly did that plan get sent to congress and you get a copy of the legislation. Let's have an up or down on the Obama Plan. How about we wait until there is something on the floor to vote on before you start telling me exactly how Obama's plan is going to work.

Remind me, which party ran ads in TX claiming that voting for Bush would lead to black men being road-hauled?

Well, Whirled Citizen, I think they did have the vote you wanted in the Senate today. There will be no Public Option, at least until Democrats can think of another way to slither the bill through.

More important is public support, and this legislation is sinking fast, even among Democrats. Only 42% of Americans polled now support the call for the government takeover of the healthcare system. If half the country voted Democrat, that means that about 20% of Democrats also oppose it.

As for waiting to see how Obama's plan is going to work, I'd rather not. I'd rather see the government get the hell out of my life.

SCSIwuzzy,

I don't live in Texas. Why don't you tell me.

bodog,

The only way for you to get the government out of your life is to die. The obvious things like roads, utilities, police, fire depatments, etc. are things I imagine you want to keep. Are you talking about sodomy, poligamy, drug laws that you don't approve of?

WaterCloset -

Nobody currently needs to show proof of insurance when they arrive at an emergency room requiring attention. That will not change with any future law so your premise is stupid and your ignorance of how health care works is obvious. It is illegal to refuse treatment (not to mention immoral).

Secondly, I have been speaking about the house plan for the most part since there is no Obama plan as Dear Leader has not actually been so much of a leader as to come up with one himself.

I criticize Obama for supporting the House plan and for his history of promoting socialized medicine in obvious ignorance of the damage it would do to health care in this country and in ignorance of how damaging it has been everywhere else.

Who'd a thought. Democrats nix amendment for need to show photo ID to obtain gov't health care. It's almost like they DON'T WANT TO KNOW.
But hey, it AIN'T THEIR MONEY!

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/60939-senators-turn-back-id-requirement-for-immigrant-healthcare