It's all so SIMPLE! Couple of hits off the ol' bong and it all makes sense.

I'm wrestling with whether an insurance company bureaucrat or a government bureaucrat would provide a better result.

This is just the simpler overview version. Wait until they get all the deatils ironed out.

I understand they are building huge new doctor parks and new modern hospitals in Panama ...

Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.

Roadmap to socialism.

Ha. This thing resembles a schematic of the Mouse Trap game, only with too much non-stimulus in the plumbing. Maybe if congress hands it over to NASA's engineers they reconstruct it into an escape pod.

Will Congress have the same "healthcare" as the rest of us?

Why did we throw off a monarchy over 200 years ago, or fought wars (hot and cold) to rid the world of totalitarian governments and dictators only to have voted these fools in. They truly believe they are kings or/and dictators looking out for our best. How could anyone with half a brain buy into that?????????????????

Would you buy a used car from Reid, Pelosi & Co.? I sure wouldn't. So I don't want them to handle my healthcare.

I guess We are surrounded by fools Mag...I refuse to bend at the waist as Obama has to the Royal Sheik of Women abusers..But, that being said , what are We to do? Continue to let them steal our God given Men/Women sacrificed freedoms/liberties? or just hope they screw everybody so bad (like now) that they cant possibly stay in power?

I dont know? I just cant believe there are so many idiots in this Country?

2. Posted by James H
" I'm wrestling with whether an insurance company bureaucrat or a government bureaucrat would provide a better result".

James, you haven't been paying attention, what you need is a "wise Latina". It's been all over the news.

Sorry, I had to indulge myself. Feeling better now.

Where can We find a "wise Latina" in government Old Guy?

I guess a supreme court bigotted appointee is close enough.

You guys are right, that Republican BS is way worse than our current system. I guess we can always go with the Republican plan.

mantis,
You be the first to volunteer for the
nationalized medicine system, let us know
how it works out.
I've had three immediate family members
die due to socialized medicine incompetence.

Too big to fail and too self serving too succeed.

More like too big to work.

You be the first to volunteer for the
nationalized medicine system, let us know
how it works out.

How would I do that, considering no one is proposing a "nationalized medicine system?" Do I have to move to Sweden? That would leave me with a hell of a commute.

I've had three immediate family members
die due to socialized medicine incompetence.

I've had one die due to evil health insurance companies, and I currently have one more plus a good friend on their way to the poorhouse due to medical bills (one is uninsured and cannot find affordable coverage due to a pre-existing condition, one has the typical employer provided plan that denies every claim).

You've got an imaginary boogeyman in a nationalized healthcare industry that won't exist, and I've got the system we have now, screwing people out of their life savings. My argument's better, as it exists in reality.

Whoever gave Me a neg vote for voicing the truth??

FU and the Kommunist screed you worship at...

Some intrepid Congresscritter should insert an amendment in this monstrosity that says ' all congressmen, ALL gov't employees and all unions have to abide by National Healthcare, getting the same coverage as every other citizen.'

Then watch the wailing begin.

Yeah, they may as well Les. The SOBs dont read their own legislation anyways. They've got trial lawyers, golddiggers ( yes Lurch Im referring to You ) and lobbyist ACLU type trash cooking the books and seeing how much more they can rape America before She gets pissed off enough to eradicate the vermin!

mantis if the systems of other countries is so great, why do those who can afford to do so, and living in those places, come here for medical treatment? They have so much money they figure they'd just throw it away? How about that great system in Cuba that Michael Moore is so enthralled of? Next time Mikey's sick, lets see him drag his fat ass over there for treatment. Can our system be improved? Sure, anything designed and run by humans can. Spending TRILLIONS to get there? Pull your head out.
As for those "evil" insurance companies. Subtract actors and professional sports figures; the top 15 wage earners in the US are physicians of one sort or another. Oh, and those "evil" CEO's? They only come in at #10.

BTW, you a boogyman? Try these people, they have US National Health Care. It's done great by them:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/14/an-american-government-health-care-system-you-should-know/

unMantis, I know its You masquerading as a demented troll whom is really not masquerading.

So - - - - - - - - To You two pal

Look at My # 9 comment vote summary

The same idibots that voted for the Kommander in thief are voting here!

This is not a scientific poll and only represents the 50% of Americans that still think for themselves..

Mantis,
I've had three immediate family members, killed by socialized medicine.
And that IS what's being rushed through congress right now.
As to not finding coverage, I've been seriously
injured while uninsured, and found immediate
health care at my local hospital through the
emergency room.
You won't have to worry about commuting to
Sweden or the UK for typical care.
Plus the fact you've got people in Washington
DC dictating the new bill.
People who have never worked in the medical field, whether a doctor or a janitor.

The first thing to disappear in the UK when
they socialized medicine was their world class
charity hospital system.
Do you like the idea of the federal government
telling hospitals like Texas Childrens' or
St.Judes Hospital for Children to either close
up shop or be mandated the kind of facility
they deem as saving money.

Thinking there's no compassion in the
medical field now, wait til the government tells someone dear to you they are either too old, too young, or socially unfit for care.
Pray to God that you and yours stays healthy
all of their lives.

As a concerned citizen I was wondering:

Is somebody watching Sanford so that he doesn't sneak off again?
depp=true
notiz=An F for Adrians off topic misdirection

From what I understand, the current proposal isn't a national healthcare system, but rather the so-called "public option" in which people may elect coverage through a federal program. This carries its own dangers.

The big one, I think, is that private insurers will seriously increase rates on the policies offered to high-risk individuals and/or those with pre-existing conditions (in states where they are required to offer those policies at all).

Simultaneously, I think, the insurers would slash rates on insurance provided to reasonably healthy individuals.

In essence, the private insurers would use their pricing structure to compel non-healthy individuals to use the public option, while the private insurers keep the healthy individuals -- a lower risk pool -- for themselves.

I heard on the radio last night that Hillery is scheduled to meet with one our creditor nations in August. It was said that is insisting that we reform Social Security, Medicare, and health care before they meet.

You know it is not in concern about our citizens. So it must be their concern about financial instability and the US notes they hold, while being offered more.

Obama keeps saying that our recovery hinges on health care reform, and he is insisting it be passed before the August break. Could it be it has to pass or a loan does not go through?

Personal, I think He wants through before too many get to read it, LOL.

Will Congress have the same "healthcare" as the rest of us?

Oh, hell no.

I've had three immediate family members, killed by socialized medicine.

So you say.

And that IS what's being rushed through congress right now.

So you say.

As to not finding coverage, I've been seriously injured while uninsured, and found immediate health care at my local hospital through the emergency room.

I realize anyone can get emergency treatment, and you very well know that's not what I was talking about. An emergency injury is not a chronic disease. An emergency injury is not avoided through preventive care. Try to be a little more honest with your arguments. By the way, how much did that emergency room visit cost you?

An emergency injury is avoidable through preventative care Mantis.. Like in a Nursing home situation where a resident is prone to fall because of a number of degenerative factors.

So, You are wrong in this regard.

What I want to know is what's the "Office of Minority Health" (white box just above the big blue box labeled "Health Choices Administration: HCA Commissioner")? Being only white males don't belong to some minority, it seems that demographic is being singled out again for disparate treatment under the law.

I also don't like the link from the IRS to Health & Human Services Dept. Too much personal information being spread around on too many computers where hackers are going to have a better chance at stealing it.

Here's an Andy Rooney type question: Why do they call it Health & Human Services; do they think people would expect services for their pets if they didn't include the word Human?

Ok, the truth hurts I know.. But all you libtard troll a hecklers cant change the fact that you have elected the most uneducated moronic communistic excuse for a teleprompting fool that ever bowed and than bent over for a royal saudomizing at the bequest of you tards.

Mantis
"I realize anyone can get emergency treatment, and you very well know that's not what I was talking about. An emergency injury is not a chronic disease. An emergency injury is not avoided through preventive care. Try to be a little more honest with your arguments. By the way, how much did that emergency room visit cost you"

My parents together never made more than 15k a year. They always used healthcare paid for by the govt (AKA the taxpayers). They had preventive care as well as care for diseases such as High blood pressure and diabetes. In addition, my father had several surgeries associated with other conditions. This took place both before and after they were on medicare.

If you believe health care is not there for the poor you are misinformed.

Mantis,
So you say as well.
As to how much the cost was, it's still being
paid because I'm living with the consequences of the injury. As to the dollar
amount, that is none of your business.
It doesn't matter if you believe me or not,
because you will right along with the rest of
us live with the consequences of socialized
medicine.

mantis, you totally ignored the info regarding the health care (?) given to American Indians. Not fit into your ideal? Well get used to it. You think someone is going to put up with going to medical school, etc just to fork over most of their earnings to Barry and Company? The number of doctors will fall, and the number of taxpayer insured patients will increase (does this also include illegal aliens?). Mantis...to enlighten you, that's called putting 10 lbs of shit in a
5 lb bag. It won't work. It's called RATIONING. Some bureaucrat decides who gets what, not your doctor. And certainly not you. You just get to pull a numbered tag and wait. Like they do in Canada and the UK.

"I've had three immediate family members, killed by socialized medicine."

I'd love to hear about that with ALL the details.

Thanks in advance!

Ok, the truth hurts I know.. But all you libtard troll a hecklers cant change the fact that you have elected the most uneducated moronic communistic excuse for a teleprompting fool that ever bowed and than bent over for a royal saudomizing at the bequest of you tards.

Now there is a positive contribution to debate!

Adrian,
Your facetiousness isn't funny or wise.
BTW have you read this?
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332548165656854

It's Not An Option

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:20 PM PT

Congress: It didn't take long to run into an "uh-oh" moment when reading the House's "health care for all Americans" bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.

Good news Maggie! The opposite is true -- there is no proposal to make private health care illegal! Woohoo! Yeah!

Private insurance is not going to be illegal. No where, except in Cuba and North Korea, is private payment for health care illegal. No one is going to force you to use the OPTION of a public plan.

No one is going to force you to use ANY health care at all if you don't want it if you can pay for it.

No one is proposing making private insurance illegal here or anywhere. No one even wants private insurance for health care to be illegal. If you want private health insurance you may have it.

Your remaining family members are safe from socialized medicine unless they live in Cuba or North Korea.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

You're welcome!

#36

Thanks James H

Always glad to help~

Jeff

Mr.Browne,
Never make assumptions. My family is still
under controlled government medicine in the UK.
And they're still attempting to save money by
rationing health care to the populace in the UK.

From the source:

Congress: It didn't take long to run into an "uh-oh" moment when reading the House's "health care for all Americans" bill. Right there on Page 16 is a provision making individual private medical insurance illegal.

When we first saw the paragraph Tuesday, just after the 1,018-page document was released, we thought we surely must be misreading it. So we sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee.

It turns out we were right: The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.

So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised -- with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.

After the date of the law going into affect
whatever the status the clients private insurance is frozen in place. If you have private insurance, what you've got is what
you have permanently. If you have no private
insurance, you're out of luck after the law
goes into affect.

Your relatives can get all the private insurance they want in they UK if they can afford it. Private health care is not illegal in the UK. No one there or here is even thinking of making it illegal. No one wants to make it illegal.

We are safe from that.

1) "Rationing" health care is the modus operandi of the health insurance industry.

2) The GOP and others realize this salient point and thus retreat to anecdotal evidence involving King Farouk, northern border-crossers, and jet setters with various aches and pains without mentioning the HUGE medical traffic of Americans to Mexico, India and Thailand.

3) Except they DO know better. The final(?) defense of the health industry status quo appears to be to ADVERTISE THE APPARENT INHERENT SHAKINESS OF THE AMERICAN HEALTH INDUSTRY BUSINESS MODEL(by its SUPPORTERS!)-- an insurance industry gambit IMPLYING a threat of abandonment (see Chubb "versus" the 1993 Great Flood claims by farmers: Chubb liquidated itself (keeping premiums and gains), leaving policy holders high and....wet/dry. Even Chubb Group agents got shafted.

So: ML's question viz. Obamacare (To big to fail?) is being arrayed also by the other side. The answer is No and No. But group psycology predicts the opposite response, sadly.

Anyway, listen to the talking heads on the right from now on and you'll hear the implied threat in a "positive" manner, ie. If you abandon the status quo, the status quo will abandon you first. It's "couched" but it's there. Listen.

Mr.Browne,
Do you, or have you lived in the UK? Do you,
or have you used socialized medicine in the UK?
Otherwise why are you making concrete statements
as if your word could be taken to the bank.