As your Mom told you so long ago - two wrongs don't make a right.

And yes, I expect his killer will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And yes, he left will spin this - they would spin even if the right had a monopoly on the truth and morality. The high road is always bumpy.

We can only comfort in knowing the domestic terrorists on 'our' side haven't ghost-written any books for the sitting president.

All-in-all - I will be supremely disappointed if the killer's lawyer doesn't try to defend him by arguing that this was merely another late term abortion. (3rd trimester, 271st trimester - what's the difference?)

Abortion factories are too big a business to go under. The dems make too much money from this "industry". It is interesting to note that when bill gates retired from microsoft, he started opening up large abortion factories throughout africa....the dems sure do love the africans.

Why is it that the right must obsessively look for some moral balance or equivalence that simply does not exist? In the case of Dr. Tiller, virtually everyone on the left will indeed claim martyrdom for a "good man." Indeed, that is the consensus now forming. Conversely, only an infinitesimally small percentage of those on the right will make any such claim for his killer. The majority will happily applaud the killer's date with justice. There in no yin for your yang. Move along.

Ironically, both will see each other again.

Not necessarily. Tiller has already met his fate in eternity.

His killer could still repent and find salvation.

Not that I'm defending his actions.

"We are a nation based on laws, not men. It is what sets us apart from tyranny, from savagery."

Correction - we WERE a nation based on laws. Slowly we're coming to a point where the law isn't anything fixed or solid - it's mutable to match the whim of whoever is leading the mob, and changeable to grab whatever political advantage is available at the moment.

Well, hell. The rule of law was a good idea while it lasted. Too bad there were too many politicians who thought demagogery for short-term advantage was the way to go, and to hell with the long-term effects.

Why in church?

Why in church? Why anywhere, really? Maybe this idiot was trying to make more of a statement by killing Dr Tiller there. Maybe he just knew that he could find him there. Perhaps his clinic was well guarded, seeing how he had been attacked by other nutcases before, but church had no such protections. I'm sure we'll hear all about the killer's motivations before too long - from the little I've read I'd say he's not the type to exercise his right to remain silent.

Why in the womb?

It's true. Womb-goers find abortions disturbing.

Apparently one must exhibit proper concern for the "law", a proper condemnation of all who exceed its bounds and a politically proper and correct distaste for the amateur killer of this professional killer. Have I succeeded?

It's always fun to wave the pitchforks and torches in response to the mob caller, OPM - but the next morning what's been destroyed will have to be rebuilt.

Or abandoned.

This is all so tragic.. What a horrible way to go.. Being shot has got to be way worse than having Your brains sucked into a waste bin.

I just don't happen to see two martyrs here myself. Dr. Tiller was always motivated by profit, even if he attempted to paint a thin veneer of his own personal religious views over things as a justification. And the radical that shot him sacrificed the moral authority of those opposed to abortion for a quick fix, instant gratification solution. Neither are great men who rise to the Biblical standard for those called martyrs.

Yes Paul, two lost souls, one fate. Both men trying to play God. I don't think the author's intentions were to paint either man as a martyr, but to illustrate the irony in the situation and how each side will justify its way of thinking.

Good points Paul. However, this guy has no authority to sacrifice anyone elses "moral authority" on any issue. Things remain as they were.

By the way, what good does any moral authority do? The murders have gone on unabated for years with no slow down. even an uptick in the packaging and wholesale slaughter of innocence.

if it takes the eradication of an enabler to further clarify the genocidal infanticide? then I for one whole heartedly dispatch any moral authority. which I never claimed or wished to have anyway.

Well said, Paul.

I'm appalled by Tillers church. IS it Liberal?
What do you/they do with scripture in place like that.
I know any Christian church here would have shunned him out the door if he didn't stop or repent.
I suppose they cherry pick what scriptures they want to follow.
Sad.

Someone who kills a murderer on death row, is still a murderer (except for the "official" executioner). In this case both are guilty of murder and will be facing similar punishments in the afterlife. Since we cannot see what that punishment is, all we can do is prosecute, convict, and punish according to the law of the land.

For once, I agree with Paul.

The fact that neither are worthy of the title martyr still won't stop people on the far sides of the abortion debate from using the term.
Too bad the far side is such a large side on the left, in my opinion.

Wasn't it just last month that the right went into a frenzy because of a Federal report warning of the danger to us all from right-wing extremists? Didn't the media immediately shift from the focus of the report - which was the fact that these lunatics are dangerous - to reporting all the right-wingers' unfounded complaints that the report was just Obama attacking them, even though the report was from the Bush Administration. Weren't they all screaming that the report was an attack on Christians and veterans? Will this fall down the memory hole?

Vigilantism is some idiot's misguided attempt to enforce the law without the assistance of the police. This was not an attempt to enforce the law, because Tiller did not break the law. This was murder. All the talk about missed trials and executions is nothing more than an attempt to confuse the issue.

JC, would you like a bag to help get that hyperventilation under control?

I suppose they cherry pick what scriptures they want to follow.

Unfortunately many Protestant denominations have abandoned the fundamental tenet that the Bible's original manuscripts as understood by a contemporaneous reader are the inerrant word of God. Having itchy ears they hire blind guides to tell them what their human nature desires to hear and delude themselves into thinking they are following the teachings of Christ. You're right, they cherry pick what scriptures they want to follow.

No individuals and no organizations opposed to abortion are holding the murderer of Tiller up as anything BUT a murderer. The man who shot Tiller is a criminal...plain and simple.

That does NOT (or should not) make Tiller a combination Saint/Hero/Martyr...but the Pro-Abortion is already declaring him to be so.

Tiller's opportunity passed to be ANYTHING even remotely praiseworthy when he refused any and all attempts to have his books looked into. IF indeed he was only performing late-term abortions where the baby was completely non-viable, or the woman's PHYSICAL LIFE was in mortal danger, then why not allow access to his records????

Tiller ran his Murder, Inc. without ethical guidelines of any kind.
He should NOT have been murdered.
He should NOT have murdered!

G., Mac Lorry,

Until you show me a Christian church that follows Leviticus to the letter, I will contend that all Christian churches "cherry pick" the scriptures.

Someone who kills to defend others lives is not a muderer Sabba.

Since we cannot see the afterlife, how do you know the punishments are similar?

"All we can do is prosecute, convict and punish according to the law of the land."

Which is wholly inadequate in regards to the newborn.. The largest segment of society to be granted no civil rights..

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

The other already is in a place reserved for souls deemed too evil for redemption.

How do you know that?
Only God gets to judge souls; I wouldn't speculate if I were you.

I hope he's in heaven. Why? Because that would mean he repented and asked forgiveness and turned his heart over to God, before he was murdered; and that God granted him forgiveness for his sins and eternal bliss in heaven.

Remember, YOU are a sinner, too. Maybe not as bad as this abortion-loving doctor, but still a sinner nonetheless. If he could be forgiven then so could you.

Seems like a lot of Christians are actually rejoicing that someone went to Hell. That's kinda sick. They should be hoping he repented and went to Heaven.

Until you show me a Christian church that follows Leviticus to the letter, I will contend that all Christian churches "cherry pick" the scriptures.

Cherry picking is not the same as understanding that Leviticus was part of the old covenant, which was fulfilled on the Cross by Jesus. The Apostle Paul explains all this in detail for anyone who cares enough to do a bit of study.

That would just make Paul the first of a long line of "Cherry Pickers".

That would just make Paul the first of a long line of "Cherry Pickers".

I figured you were ignorant from your first comment, but gave you the benefit of the doubt. Now there's no question you're ignored about the fundamentals of the Christian faith.

That would just make Paul the first of a long line of "Cherry Pickers".

Please elaborate, Rance. And if it's not too much trouble, please include historical and scriptural references of Paul's cherry picking.

LaMedusa,

Short version: Moses' Old Covenant is out, Paul's New Covenant is in.

Hammer,
The doctors' murder was cold blooded, and the
man who killed him should be tried by a court of
law.
Let's get something straight, you're not going to
use Wizbang to broad brush everyone on the right
or center for the crime of ONE man.
Next time you post something like that, expect
results you're not going to be happy with.

Rance,

The church of Jesus Christ is not founded
on the Old Testament. He came not to change but
to fulfill the Law. Which He did when He was
crucified.

Apparently one must exhibit proper concern for the "law", a proper condemnation of all who exceed its bounds and a politically proper and correct distaste for the amateur killer of this professional killer. Have I succeeded?

Yep.

I wonder what the chance are Dr. Tiller would have been sought out and killed had he not been the slayer of the unborn? Had Tiller not been who he was, he would still be alive. Anyone need a description of the procedure for very late term abortion. The innocents are allowed to be partially born before their brains are sucked out. Sound painful.

Please elaborate, Rance

On second thought, please don't.

LaMedusa,

Short version: Moses' Old Covenant is out, Paul's New Covenant is in.

I didn't say lie, Rance, I said elaborate with references. Your short version doesn't even answer the question, it's a completely different suggestion, also without references to back it up. I don't think you really understand what cherry picking is, so never mind.

Ref #33. I didn't broad brush anyone. Are you denying that Wizbang didn't have an article about the HS report? And all those comments about it?

Hammer,
You call it what you will, that does not
change it. Nor does your trying to move
the goal posts.
There is NO shiny object.

Tiller did not break what law JC? Your law? mans law? Gods law?

Bottom line.. The worlds a better place... Would that you could observe your own misplaced concern in caring for one screwed up soul more than the entirety of non screwed up souls* millions upon millions (* they may be screwed up spiritually now ) that were never given your chance at life.

Looks like the suspect in custody, Mr. Scott Roeder, has been pal-ing around with terrorists.

Don't come here and lie, Mr. unethical Google Bomb.

This is how an article describes him:

"Authorities have said that Roeder was a member of anti-government militia groups, as well as a regular at pickets outside clinics."

This is what they said about him, that he is anti-abortion and anti-government militia member. The article has succeeded in painting the word "dangerous" around a man that should be both of those things. We don't really know a hell of a lot, other than what this article says, but that doesn't mean we can't get the full story behind it.

Yet Adrian, you paint him as a "terrorist". What a liar you are.

Source article: http://www.mns.co.uk/01213554.html No surprise it came from the UK on a site called "Moo News".

Your article can be summarized as
"murder is wrong...... but he had it comming and is now burning in hell".

He wasnt dedicated to giving abortions. He was dedicated to exercising his right to follow the law and do his god damned job without some psycho "pro lifer" murdering him.

Way to condemn and then attempt to justify murder within 3 sentences.

What about soldiers? Are they open game when they come home on leave?
If i murdered a marine would you say
"well murder is wrong but that marine was a trained killer and would have ended up in hell anyway. So no great loss there"?

"Way to condemn and then attempt to justify murder within 3 sentences."

Don't lie Anon. You and Adrian have a lot in common in that department. Adrian called him a terrorist, but the article actually describes him as an anti-abortion, anti-government, which is pretty smart. I don't condone abortion or murder, and I was addressing Adrian's use of the word "terrorist".

"...If i murdered a marine would you say..."

Another dishonest tactic is putting words in the mouth of someone else that are completely off-topic, even in a comparison, and try to pull it off as a valid argument.

Phone number found inside car of man suspected of killing George Tiller belongs to woman who plotted 1988 clinic bombing:

http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2009/06/inside_the_car_of_the.php

What is your point? The woman whose phone number in question said she hadn't spoken to him recently, and her phone number is all over the net. The article you posted also says that a google search says that Schroeder said that "Tiller should be put behind bars..." We find that he will not be charged Monday because "Now, more progress is being learned about the case."

Why is Schroeder a suspect but not being charged? What do you think these articles are really about? The horror of murder or anti-militia, and associating anti govt and anti-civil unrest? The plot thickens only because the scapegoat theories need better credibility.

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/DA-Tiller-suspect-will-not-be-charged-Monday/02EM7U7Y9kiKK6RU3pQvtA.cspx

Hammer, The doctors' murder was cold blooded, and the man who killed him should be tried by a court of law. Let's get something straight, you're not going to use Wizbang to broad brush everyone on the right or center for the crime of ONE man. Next time you post something like that, expect results you're not going to be happy with.

Looked to me like he was painting the far-right extremist for the danger they are. I don't think he got anywhere near the right and he was miles from the center..

And I find it ironic, given every third post on this site paints the left with a "broad brush" that you feel compelled to threaten someone into obstaining from putting down their opinons because you feel a generlization has been made against your side.

"What do you think these articles are really about?"

Perhaps the articles are just news and not "really about" something different. News isn't always part of a secret agenda or vast conspiracy.

Perhaps the articles are just news and not "really about" something different. News isn't always part of a secret agenda or vast conspiracy.

You are the one who used the word conspiracy. How could they be news if we are not hearing the whole story? It's just like you associate the phone number of a woman that was "found" in Scroeder's car, meaning what-that he's a terrorist and out to kill people, and has been "palling around" with terrorists? Now who is suggesting a conspiracy?

I don't think he got anywhere near the right and he was miles from the center..

jmc, you are a two-faced, dishonest "cheating" man. If you are going to pretend to be on the side of another commenter here, at least read the comment for what it is. It doesn't surprise me at all that your rhetoric excludes words that are evident in the very comment you are defending. You are nobody's "good guy", so stop the posturing, you have always and will always only be in it for yourself. You care nothing for the commenter you are supposedly defending, so knock it off.

How many of you are driving around with a terrorist's phone number in your car?

Hands?

How many of you are driving around with a terrorist's phone number in your car?

Hands?

How many of you like Adrian automatically associate a phone number found in a car, anti-abortion and anti-government with "terrorism"? How many also ignore the fact that Mr. Schroeder won't be charged on Monday because of new developments? Don't be such a dork.

jmc, you are a two-faced, dishonest "cheating" man. If you are going to pretend to be on the side of another commenter here, at least read

the comment for what it is. It doesn't surprise me at all that your rhetoric excludes words that are evident in the very comment you are defending.

I also didn't include any words from the comment I was defending. I gave my opinion of those words and my opinion of the reply to those words. If you don't like it tough. I really don't care much about the opinion of total nitwit.

You are nobody's "good guy", so stop the posturing, you have always and will always only be in it for yourself. You care nothing for the commenter you are supposedly defending, so knock it off.

Sorry, I don't listen to morons. So obviously I can't take your advice.

How many of you like Adrian automatically associate a phone number found in a car, anti-abortion and anti-government with "terrorism"? How many also ignore the fact that Mr. Schroeder won't be charged on Monday because of new developments? Don't be such a dork.

I remember Jay Tea, once commented on how crazy LaMed is. Chalk this up with the Amero.

I remember Jay Tea, once commented on how crazy LaMed is. Chalk this up with the Amero.

I also remember how jmc knew exactly what the theory was behind the "non-existent" Amero, and what it was supposed to be used for, verbatim. I also remember that when the true character of jmc comes back to bite him in the ass, he reverts to his vacuous "crazy" meme because he's run out of pseudo intellectual fluff to fill his comment space with.

If you try to come between people because of your egocentric agendas, sooner or later you are going to fail because, again, your undeserved ego is pointing the way over that self-made, proverbial cliff. You go ahead and keep returning back to the same argument, though, you're the one living in your own bitter past. And what has Jay Tea got to do with it, jmc? You're just real buddies with him, too, aren't you? You phony!

You go ahead and keep returning back to the same argument, though, you're the one living in your own bitter past. And what has Jay Tea got to do with it, jmc? You're just real buddies with him, too, aren't you? You phony!

Not buddies with him at all. I don't have to be his buddy to agree with his assement that you are a nut. I agree with plenty of people I'm not buddies with. I also agree with those who think you are a moron (probably about everyone you meet.)

You see, if you think hard about it LaMed(I know. I know. but try!) You'll see friendship is not actually neccasary for agreement.

LaMedusa is not a person to be taken seriously. She is best ignored.

La Medusa sez:

"How many also ignore the fact that Mr. Schroeder* won't be charged on Monday because of new developments?"

The "new developments" being he was charged today?

*Mr. Schroeder = Scott Roeder

LaMedusa is not a person to be taken seriously. She is best ignored.

max, you are a crook and a coward, and the most disgusting commenter here. You go tell others that there is no God, and don't waste your time even trying to sound credible. Your only defense is to call someone crazy or not to be taken seriously, because you are just plain stupid.

Ok Adrian. My apologies. You are correct in that I did get his name wrong and he was charged today.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/130910436

You still don't have an argument, do you? You're lack of reasoning has been reduced to more "way back machine" information that may or may not have any relevance. You keep going back to the same "crazy" meme from January and the same Amero meme that has nothing to do with the topic. In the thread in January, I asked Jay Tea twice why he came to his conclusions and he couldn't come up with an answer. Not even a vague one, and he never responded to me with a debate. Let's see, now, that was four months ago, has nothing to do with this thread, but you insist on going back to it when you can't refute what is being said. You're dumb as "fox", now, aren't you.

Comment 64 is directed to jmc. And I really don't need you to take me seriously at all. I just report ip addresses to the correct authorities and they take care of it. So max, just shove it and take your phony authority elsewhere. You realize it's worse for you if you know what is true and try to mislead others with your crazy meme.

"Being shot has got to be way worse than having Your brains sucked into a waste bin."

You're saying being shot is worse than being a republican? Well, at least you don't have to tell your parents you've been shot.

Let's see . . . Tiller broke no laws, but republicans didn't agree with him, so they shot him.

Who perverts justice?

LD

You still don't have an argument, do you? You're lack of reasoning has been reduced to more "way back machine" information that may or may not have any relevance.

Why have an argument with someone who implies things like, I need to be buddies with someone to agree with them? If your reasoning is that poor it is going to make any argument an exercise in futility.

Let's see, now, that was four months ago, has nothing to do with this thread, but you insist on going back to it when you can't refute what is being said. You're dumb as "fox", now, aren't you.

I love it. You start our exchange with:

jmc, you are a two-faced, dishonest "cheating" man. If you are going to pretend to be on the side of another commenter here, at least read the comment for what it is

And then have the nerve to complain I am not sticking to the thread. arguing with someone so lacking in self-awareness, is not something that lends itself to any search for truth.

Im not a republican dickweed and I didnt shoot Tiller the baby killer.

Who perverts what justice? This was poetic justice.. wether he goes to hell or not has been decided.. Im just glad he is not around to kill "innocent" individuals anymore.

Comment 64 is directed to jmc. And I really don't need you to take me seriously at all. I just report ip addresses to the correct authorities and they take care of it.

Wow, wizbang gives you access to their weblogs? Best of luck with your reporting.

jmc, you are a blithering idiot. Anyone how has a firewall has a weblog. You really can't be that stupid.

"And then have the nerve to complain I am not sticking to the thread. arguing with someone so lacking in self-awareness, is not something that lends itself to any search for truth."

I keep forgetting reading comprehension is not your strong point. Incidentally, why would you be concerned about my reporting unless you were involved in something unethical or illegal? Good luck with my reporting what, in particular?

@70 *Anyone who has

I caught it LaMedusa...Its jmc who may have been thrown for a loop.

I keep forgetting reading comprehension is not your strong point. Incidentally, why would you be concerned about my reporting unless you were involved in something unethical or illegal? Good luck with my reporting what, in particular?

Oh god you crack me up.

Good lucking reporting whatever it was you were saying you were going to report, you ninny.

jmc, you are a blithering idiot. Anyone how has a firewall has a weblog. You really can't be that stupid.

obviously I'm quite a bit smarter than you. LMAO off in fact. Your firewall isn't going to record any ip addresses other than your own. Firewalls inspects tcp/ip packets that come across a network the firewall is on. meaning unless someone on this blog is accessing a machine on your own network, and you have a firewall setup to inspect those packets you are not getting anyone's Ip addresses.

You really want to keep talking how networks work? I should disclose that while I'm not real fond of it, I make my living in I.T.

I caught it LaMedusa...Its jmc who may have been thrown for a loop.

Shouldn't you be planning domestic terrorism or something :)

914, that typo? Yeah, I have my dyslexia days sometimes, but it doesn't take much to throw jmc for a loop.

"Let's see . . . Tiller broke no laws, but republicans didn't agree with him, so they shot him."

C'mon, Larry. That's just not true. Who's they? Neo-cons and extreme right wings have their own category and give conservatives a bad name. Both what the Dr. practiced and what happened to him should be considered murder and have to be reassessed respectively. Originally, Roeder said: The "monster" Tiller should be behind bars, now we have the Dr. shot in cold blood. Hopefully, this current investigation will shed some more light on how this tragedy came to pass.

"I should disclose that while I'm not real fond of it, I make my living in I.T."

That explains a lot.

"I should disclose that while I'm not real fond of it, I make my living in I.T."

That explains a lot.

Come on LaMed, tell how you are going to get some IP addresses from users on this blog with your firewall :)

"and you have a firewall setup to inspect those packets you are not getting anyone's Ip addresses."

But it doesn't explain how you came up with this stupid statement. Reading comprehension, again, is nowhere in your functionality. But, that's okay, I'll let you cough up a stellar "last word". Your idiocy speaks for itself, "techy". (ha!)

"Come on LaMed, tell how you are going to get some IP addresses from users on this blog with your firewall :)"

You don't read very carefully, now do you? *Smilies all around. You are suddenly not bored with this thread, are you? I am. :D

But it doesn't explain how you came up with this stupid statement.

Where oh where could I have come up with that:

Anyone how has a firewall has a weblog. You really can't be that stupid.

Reading comprehension, again, is nowhere in your functionality. But, that's okay, I'll let you cough up a stellar "last word". Your idiocy speaks for itself, "techy". (ha!)

I can hardly write, I'm laughing so hard. come LaMed. tell us about your weblogs :)
I didn't know mcdonalds was teaching it's employees how to set these up.

You don't read very carefully, now do you? *Smilies all around. You are suddenly not bored with this thread, are you? I am. :D

Sure I do. I'm enjoying your claims that you are going to report IP addresses with your firewall. Did you pay for it with an Amero?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Now what was this thread about again?

Oh yeah.... jmc's defense of a child murdering butcher.

Now I remember.

Who's us, jmc? You are the only one asking.

"I can hardly write, I'm laughing so hard."

I am glad you are entertained. I'll bet Kevin is please with the readership, too. He works very hard to maintain this site and puts up with all kinds of crap. Kudos to him. You have a good night, jmc.

doggone it! *pleased with...

lol

You have a bad night jmc.. And I mean it from the bottom of my beer bottle.

I am glad you are entertained.

I really was. thank you for that. I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

I'll bet Kevin is please with the readership, too. He works very hard to maintain this site and puts up with all kinds of crap.

I'm sure he does work hard.

You have a good night, jmc.

You do the same.

You have a bad night jmc.. And I mean it from the bottom of my beer bottle.

You know drinking kills brain cells, and lets be honest you don't have any to spare.

Thanks for proving my point, LM. You freak.
depp=true

I dont have any spares your so right..

Ask Me anything on a intellectual scale, and we will see how we measure up? I dont care if its emotional liberalism or statistical aptitude.. Go ahead... I dare you! Because in the end mercy and wisdom that are actually married will prevail against ignorance and depravity.

Thanks for proving my point, LM. You freak.

You never had any valid point, max. In fact, your "point" went right out the window with statements to me such as:

"Iz you gonna l*ck my ha*ry balls*ck?" and,
"Now, iz you or izn't you gonna l*ck my ha*ry balls*ck?" and, (to another commenter)
"If I wanted any of your lip I would've p*cked it out of my zipper." And then, to everyone on a Christmas post: "There is no god".

You treat Wizbang like a favorite bar you like to scope for pickups, certainly not limited to women. As some sort of "clever" cover-up, you throw in one-liners in the comment section, and try to sound like you know what you are talking about. There is nothing you will ever be successful at "keeping in check" or "keeping an eye on", because, quite frankly, the real crowd in charge knows how stupid you are, and like it that your useless ego is so big.

This is the venom you are reduced to: "You freak." I'll bet you took out a loaner on those brain cells to come up with such a brilliant comeback.

C'mon max.. Or Hyperbolist. fess up to your sexism.

Ok,, enough waiting on idiocy of the jmc kind... Im going to go get loaded on my 1 day off in 15.. thanks to Obama.

gmc, if you got the nerve? (NOT) I will be on later in a 2.7 state to debunk your idioism.

gmc, if you got the nerve? (NOT) I will be on later in a 2.7 state to debunk your idioism.

And so 914 starts the battle of wits by cleverly using a word (idioism.) that doesn't exist. Truly, I'm terrified of such a mind.

I am never surprised that this topic starts as normal conversation and always reduces to name calling in the end.