Under Obama's health care system, having gotten to the hospital, she'd have needed a bureaucratic okay for an MRI. Once that was economically justified, she would then be issued a number and could then begin her wait in line.

Thank God the little girl is going to be okay, but it sounds to me that the fact that she was in Ohio and had got a helicopter ride to the children's hospital is what saved her life.

yes, this is a nice story and it turned out great for the girl and her parents.... but what isn't discussed is how prohibitively expensive it would be to establish a standard that everybody who gets bumped on their head gets to go the hospital and get an MRI.

And that is the crux of the health care problem: the country can't afford to cover all the bases to provide 100% of the people 100% of the health care they (and not some government bureaucrat, medical insurance claims clerk or even their doctor) decides they need. We can't afford to pay for MRIs for everybody who gets bumped on the head, organ transplants for everyone whose body fails them, new teeth for everyone whose teeth start to fall out (regardless of whose fault that is), and so on. And yet no one wants to be told that they or their family can't get treated... and right away. Some number of people are going to get screwed... and the battle is over who falls into this group.

I have worked in a hospital for many, many years in the finance dept. NO ONE is ever turned away and they get treated as good (in some cases better) than people with good insurance. The hospital just has to write these bills off to bad debt. Very hard on some hospitals and they have to be ver careful with their spending etc.
I don't think health care is a right, you got the right to breathe and the rest is your responsbility. For the people who fall thru the cracks, or serious overwhelming diseases then let the gov't step in.
This is not about taking care of us citizens, believe me the demos or repls couldn't care less about us..it all about them having more power over us.

While the accounting entry might be to write off as bad debt the costs incurred in treating uninsured patients, the reality is that hospitals recover those costs by charging their insured patients more than they otherwise would.

What saved this girl's life is her parents taking her to the hospital when they did, instead of just ignoring the headache and assuming it was nothing. They said that if they had not heard the story of Richardson they would not have taken her in. By the time she got in bad enough shape for them to think she needed emergency attention it would have been too late. It sounds being helicoptered to the children's hospital also played a role.

Everyone who gets a bump on the head doesn't need to go to the hospital, but if someone gets a sudden headache in the days following a blow to the head, they probably should get checked out. It saved this girl's life.

"the reality is that hospitals recover those costs by charging their insured patients more than they otherwise would"

True, but that's still hundreds of times more efficient and cost effective than the government run-socialist Obamacare we may soon find ourselves burdened with.

Also the little girl not being in Canada at the time probably played a role in saving her life.

True what #5 said, but it that true about other things as well. We pay more in stores to make up for the people who steal, pay more in credit card fees to make up for those who don't pay their bills.
But health care has gotten very expensive. Medicare is to thank for that. 30 years ago the highest paid employee were I work made 75K, now with the salary and "perks" it is close to 500K or more.

Mag: but in those other situations, the government isn't forcing stores to give away merchandise or credit card companies to give credit to those with no money. hospitals are required by law to treat everyone regardless of ability to pay.

And the reason health care has gotten so much more expensive isn't medicare per se, it is because we can now diagnose what we couldn't before and because we can now treat what we couldn't before. It doesn't cost much to tell someone "sorry, I have no way of finding out what is wrong with you" or "sorry, you have XXX but there's nothing we can do". Collectively, we're paying the price for being able to do so much more than in the past.

"Collectively, we're paying the price for being able to do so much more than in the past.

That's also part of the problem.

Did ya ever notice that we never had a "health care crisis back in the good old days when it was considered unethical for a lawyer to advertise?

Steve:

ER's are required not to turn people away. Hospitals per se are not required to treat anyone who wants to be admitted.

The quality of the physician, their integrity (their ability to withstand hospital pressure to maximize income by ordering or not ordering tests and admissions) and the level of training and experience of their staff is what drives how economical or expensive an ER is. Certainly the demands placed upon that system can put an extreme challenge on the ER and the hospital, but given appropriate experience and intelligence, solutions can be had (if there is minimal outside meddling from government and third-party payors).

It is ignorant and asinine to make a reference to "everyone who has a bump on the head needing an MRI." Selected patients should have a CT scan - there are standard guidelines for this published. What is costing the health care system the largest chunk of cash is pharmaceuticals - and a big chunk of that goes for drugs to treat self-inflicted symptoms from overeating, tobacco and alcohol.

Medicare IS the reason we have the ability to diagnose and treat so much more - that money drove a huge increase in health care spending that fueled chronic disease treatments and interventions.

Lastly, when patients hold the purse-strings, when its THEIR money that is being spent, THEN the health care spending crisis will lessen. The uninsured I care for may not always make what I consider appropriate decisions, but they tend not to ask for frivolous or unnecessary treatments. The Medicaid patients, on the other hand, include a vocal minority that want all sorts of treatments that aren't in their or our best interest.

Medicare did have a part in the increase of health care. Because in the beginning it encouraged hospital to grow and expand...because if they did then Medicare would pay the hospital more than was required. Simply put, if a gallbladder operation costed 1,000.00 but the hospital at year end cost-reporting said while this person was in for a gallbladder operation we renovated the OR...then Medicare would turn around and give us 5,000.00 for this patient bill...really overpaying the bill.
But I agree the new tech, higher skill people also contribute to the high cost of health care.
Plus with Medicare...there was rampant stealing and fraud..big time....I knew one executive from another hospital in the state, took Medicare funds to buy porn movies.

And that is the crux of the health care problem: the country can't afford to cover all the bases to provide 100% of the people 100% of the health care they (and not some government bureaucrat, medical insurance claims clerk or even their doctor) decides they need.

That's true; and it is true under a purely-private system, a purely-socialist system or anything in between.
That's what bugs me the most about those advocating for a gov't-run 'free' healthcare system: (1)it's not 'free' and (2)they won't get the level of healthcare they think they will.

"Lastly, when patients hold the purse-strings, when its THEIR money that is being spent, THEN the health care spending crisis will lessen"

That is wishful thinking. People will continue to demand health care in excess of what they will pay out of their own pocket. You think people are going to stop demanding treatment outside the scope of their coverage if/when they start directly picking up the tab (as opposed to paying for indirectly through their employer's plan)? There will be tons of people who forgo coverage or choose bare bones plans, spend the money on other things, then b***h and moan that they can't afford treatment or how their mean insurance company isn't covering their treatment and how mean society is for not giving it to them.

Look at the current foreclosure mess for a preview. People who have done nothing wrong are being forced to bail out people who did everything wrong. Society can't/won't say "sorry, but we're not taking care of you, you're on your own". We won't do it for houses, we certainly won't do it in health care.

I'm skeptical. Doctors are always talking about how they saved the patient's lives with quick decisive action. Sometimes they're right - but they're often just making it up. For example, cardiac stents have been shown over and over again not to do much - but everybody talks about how they were saved by quick surgery.

Early Monday evening my 16 year old slammed into a pole on his bicycle, trying to avoid another bicyclist barreling in his direction on the walk. He cut his ear and had a dreadful headache and a numb jaw (luckily he turned his head at the last minute and only slammed the left side of his head) but BECAUSE of what happened to Natasha Richardson, I knew what symptoms to look for. I checked his pupil dialation roughly every 20 minutes for 2 hours and after about 5 hours later he seemed to be feeling better.

I initially panicked and wanted to get him to the ER but my husband calmed me down. Until that happened to Mrs. Richardson, I would have been oblivious to what that kind of injury could quickly degrade to.

But TWO days after the injury is when that little girl developed the same symptoms? That seems a little protracted.

"But TWO days after the injury is when that little girl developed the same symptoms? That seems a little protracted."

Head injuries can cause bleeding into the brain which is the problem Natasha and that girl had. Some bleeds are smaller requiring a longer time to develop symptoms. Those that bleed at a quicker rate will make a person develop symptoms sooner.

Oh Lord, you read a News article and you become an expert diagnostician for traumatic brain injuries?

If people think that way en masse, then more will die than are saved.

Steve: I take care of people NOW who haven't had insurance for a while, some for a short time. They tend to make fairly good decisions with their own money as compared to a third party payors'. It is amazing how they are suddenly happy with cheaper generics and medical therapies, home/self physical therapy, and lifestyle changes that save them money when their own pocketbooks are at stake.

While somewhat of an exaggeration, the comment about cardiac stents holds some water. There are a lot of invasive cardiac treatments for ischemic heart disease that hold no better long-term survival than medical therapies, though the interim quality of life may be better for some.

Cardiologists, hospitals and surgeons don't make much money for recommending/managing medical treatments. If Primary Care physicians were paid enough to take the time to manage their patient's care (the term Primary Care Manager, PCM, is generally an overly optimistic term), you might see a change. However, we are more than likely to have little input in emergent situations when such expensive therapies are recommended to patients, and are rarely consulted by our "colleagues" before our patients are treated by them when referred by an emergency room. Expect no improvement with a government system, where the PCM gets dinged if the patient IS referred for an expensive and indicated treatment. Just a different kind of pain, and not the "good" kind.

Gosh epador, what could I do? You're the only expert I know and you weren't answering your phone.

All people have assholes, some just are.

GarandFan says that under Obama's (Fascist "Medicine") system, having gotten to the hospital, she'd have needed a bureaucratic okay for an MRI. Once that was economically justified, she would then be issued a number and could then begin her wait in line.

Which is precisely what happened, in Canada, to Ms Richardson. And happens every year in that fasciSSocialist Hell-hole, to thousands of others.

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles CalifOZEROcated -- and the Far Abroad