Well, you have company there in the "outs". Me.

This is another of those scenarios where, when I find myself angry, I try to imagine if the shoe were on the other foot and whether it still angers me. If ACORN were predominately a Republican group doing all these things, I'd be just as angry. I don't want my candidate to win "by hook or crook". I want him to win honestly and on a level playing field.

If ACORN were predominately a Republican group doing all these things, I'd be just as angry. I don't want my candidate to win "by hook or crook". I want him to win honestly and on a level playing field.

An admirable quality shared by most conservatives. Unfortunately, the conservative propensity to pay by the rules is also a weakness when up against opponents who see rules as something to be broken, or for the other guy, not them.

Liberals try to keep voting laws as lax and unenforced as possible. With early voting now the law in most states, these lax laws really come into play as it gives people lots of time to vote multiple times. Even if they are caught, nothing happens, particularly if it's a minority. Prosecutors know that the professional racists will be all over the media making false allegations of voter suppression and disenfranchisement.

To keep liberals from stealing more and more elections republicans are going to have to form and fund their own "Acorn" type of organization. The goal is not to actually steal elections, but to have the appearance of doing so. If successful, liberals will be calling for tighter voting laws and voter identification cards.

Every illegal vote disenfranchises a legal voter who casts an opposing ballot. Conservatives can whine about it, or they can appear to be playing the game even better in order to foster change.

Beginning in 1994 through 2006, the Democratic Party lost control of Congress. Whether or not the Republicans did something positive with their control isn't important for the purposes of something else that needs mention:

Patronage.

Simply put, the Democratic Party lost a good deal of the Patronage they had control of for many, many decades. And they didn't like it.

With patronage, they lost power. Their minions, the regulars who staffed their campaigns, hauled their water and otherwise were the muscle and veins of the process, often had to take jobs at foundations, lobby firms and an number of other places that were not as convenient as running various government departments where patronage gets the job.

While most of government is staffed by civil servants, you would be amazed at the number of jobs that are political appointments.

The President also has control of a lot of political jobs and we all know what happened in 2000 and 2004. The birthright that Democrats thought they had became a long desert of much lower appointments to the juicy stuff and THAT as much as anything, has driven their win at all cost campaign to get back control of all phases of government.

The grunt jobs of power have to be done by someone, often trainees. Look at Chris Matthews, the thrill up the leg guy. He used to work for Tip O'Neil when O'Neil was Speaker of the House. As a young guy, he had a grunt job. But look at how he helps them now.

"Beginning in 1994 through 2006, the Democratic Party lost control of Congress. Whether or not the Republicans did something positive with their control isn't important for the purposes of something else that needs mention:"

In that regard, this bears mentioning too:

When Republicans lost that majority in '06, many conservatives plainly knew, and said aloud, that they deserved it. They lost the faith of the electorate because they strayed from the conservative message and became corrupt.

With the current approval rating of a majority Democrat Congress being at an all time low, the liberals take an entirely different view. They don't think they deserve to lose their majority. In fact, they think it's just a matter of electing more Democrats to make things better.

Many mornings I watch roughly 1 minute of FoxNews' morning show - while I put on my shoes before heading off to work. Yet twice in the past few days my 1 minute has involved watching clearly-fired-up, non-profit, government-funded ACORN officials endorsing Obama and exhorting people to vote for him.

Needless to say I've not seen those videos anywhere else.

Lurching into a tangent: Why is a major Republican name - Guiliani, Steele, Romney - or better yet Joe Lieberman, not camped out in front of the LAT offices with a crowd of Republican supporters demanding the release of the Obama/PLO tape (preferably with Newt there to handle press interviews)? I mean something BIG - I mean every active Republican in the area there with a friend and a sign. I mean every elected Republican in the time zone asking their supporters to go join this protest. I mean something so huge that it HAS to be on the TV during every newscast, headlining the papers all weekend. Why, exactly, is that not happening?

Wizbangblue stifles debate. Nobody is allowed to post for long who does not agree with Lee Ward.

This is the mindset of Liberals. And we are going to see more and more of that in the future even if McCain wins.

Why Kevin allows this is a mystery. I don't understand. Because of it, I will probably go away after the election.

For a real view of the mindset of Liberals, I have extracted a blurb from this page that tags something the Lee or one of his fellow travelers has posted:

It's too early to flush the crapper on McCain's chances in Ohio, but the water level is rising and poor old John McCain is sinking further behind. Stand by with the plunger, Joe/Sam - what floats to the top ain't gonna be pretty.

Nasty minded, closed minded and proud of it.

It used to be that we categorized rednecks and low level blacks as narrow minded and proud of it. Guess we have to lump Liberals in that category now as well.

On the contrary, I think these sorts of things matter a great deal, to a great many people. But the point is...how would anyone know the mood of the public if the MSM will not report on it? I'm livid, but what exactly do I do now...kick my TV? Send an e-mail to FOX? I've done that 100 times or more, counting on the famously "conservative", "fair and balanced" network to demand Obama release his college records, his medical records, even his damned birth cert. Has any of this become part of the FOX broadcast day? I don't mean on Hannity and Colmes. But as a lead story, every 1/2 hour! A ten million man march is about the only thing which will generate any talk. Only that would reveal the true anger and disgust of the American public. Hell, I'll join in ...and provide a car! But who does the organizing? Anyhow, the fact that people aren't running up and down the streets with rifles doesn't mean the American public isn't absolutely irate...with the criminally corrupt MSM, with a lying Manchurian Candidate, with the patent abuse of its rights and with the fact that Washington DC has become so corrupt that a 2nd American revolution may well be necessary to restore our rights and freedom.

Ahhh the fake Republican outrage over voter fraud. A true classic.

Especially since it's not voter fraud, but actually voter registration fraud, a point somehow lost by such brilliant intellects. But keep pushing, you never know, maybe you can stifle more votes to help your cause.

No, what is classic is the lack of outrage from people who were upset at Republicans for a confusing butterfly ballot that was created and distributed by Democrat election officials. Plenty of outrage at the wrong party over that, but none for funding a group that repeatedly sends people out to collect bogus voter registration forms.

How stupid is it to make the distinction between vote fraud and voter registration fraud? At the VERY least, all these bogus registration forms are overwhelming the poor workers in the board of elections offices and making it harder for them to do their jobs to ensure a fair election. That pisses me off. It is a waste of taxpayer money paid to have thousands of bogus forms reviewed and call me crazy, but I am not convinced every single bad registration form will be caught -- especially when so many were dumped so close to the election. There are simply not enough personnel or hours in a day to do a perfect job reviewing them and verifying them.

Then you have people like Brunner in Ohio who is not even interested in doing what is needed to put in place the tools to verify them.

There have been some bad votes caught in some states in the early voting process. I doubt we will never know the full extent of it, but I have a feeling Obama will get his $800,000 worth and then some.

Volunteering time at ACORN or some other Community Organization and making sure that voters' registrations match their identification exactly would help prevent "fraud."

If their address on their Driver's License address says St. make sure it doesn't say Street on their voter's registration.

The problem is not insurmountable.

Especially since it's not voter fraud, but actually voter registration fraud, a point somehow lost by such brilliant intellects.

Somehow it escapes you that if you can register with different identities you can vote multiple times. Thanks to liberals, there's minimal safeguards to prevent such fraud. That's ok, conservatives just need to play the game even better than liberals. When you show up at the polls and find that you've already voted then you'll be whining for safeguards.

jp2

Obviously you haven't lived long enough for it to sink in. Voter fraud is real. It happens on both sides, but Democrats have been better at it for generations for some odd reason. Well, except when it didn't work out.

There is whole alphabet soup of elected people who got there through voter fraud, including such as LBJ, JFK, and maybe Bush thanks to the fumbled attempt at voter fraud by the Dems in Florida. Try the Daley machine in Chicago, Tammany Hall in NYC and the Perdergast bunch in Kansas City. Voter fraud has been with us for generations, way before voter registration fraud, which is now all the rage.

Felons, dead people, nursing home demented, illegal aliens, street people; how can you ignore the obvious facts? Oh, I forgot, you are a Liberal, which means winning by any means, and fraud is ok if your side does it.

ROFLMAO

Adrian -

"Volunteering time at ACORN or some other Community Organization and making sure that voters' registrations match their identification exactly would help prevent "fraud.""

And we should do for FREE what they get paid to REFUSE to do?

Right. Put the responsibility for fixing the problem on the VICTIMS of the fraud, not the ones who perpetrated it in the first place.

Accountability and Responsibility really is a foreign concept in liberal government, isn't it?

Adrian, in addition to JLawson's objection -- why the FUCK should I have to give of my time freely to fix THEIR problem that they REFUSE to acknowledge or even TRY to correct -- just imagine, for a moment, the howls of protests that would accompany this "obvious effort to suppress the vote!"

Thanks, but no. THEY are the ones who are fucking up the process, willfully, and THEY are the ones who should fix it.

Or pay to fix it.

Or, at least, stop fucking it up.

J.

Ahhh the fake Republican outrage over voter fraud. A true classic.

Especially since it's not voter fraud, but actually voter registration fraud, a point somehow lost by such brilliant intellects. But keep pushing, you never know, maybe you can stifle more votes to help your cause.

Well, parting with the advice to "not feed the trolls", I can assure you, there is nothing fake about the outrage I feel over this.

Your faulty argument is the same as saying "here is a list of criminal activity, but this crime is not the same thing as the actual crime, so you should absolutely ignore the list."

If that makes your "classic" list, I suspect you are quite limited in your experiences.

I do commend you though, jp2... On the list of "ridiculous arguments" I've seen from lefturds on Wizbang, you're holding your ground.

President McCain will care.

Love him or hate him, he really, deeply, learns from things. His passion for campaign finance reform stems from his first-row seat at the Keating scandal.

Win or lose, McCain is not going to forget this.

I have high hopes for election reform -- in fact, I suspect that if we lose, the McCain-Clinton Comprehensive Election Reform Bill will appear by next summer.

"Especially since it's not voter fraud, but actually voter registration fraud, a point somehow lost by such brilliant intellects."

I can hear jp2 going to bat for his defendant: "He didn't actually steal anything. He just picked the lock and drove the getaway car."

"But keep pushing, you never know, maybe you can stifle more votes to help your cause."

Yeah, jp2, keep pushing. You never know, maybe you can manufacture more fake votes to help your cause.

With the current approval rating of a majority Democrat Congress being at an all time low, the liberals take an entirely different view. They don't think they deserve to lose their majority. In fact, they think it's just a matter of electing more Democrats to make things better.

Congressional Democrats rate higher than Congressional Republicans. Do you think the path to raising the overall approval rating of Congress is by electing more Republicans? Do those who poll even lower than those you think "deserve to lose their majority" deserve to win the majority?

Brian, you really are reaching... don't fall off the ladder.

Shorter SotG:

Especially since it's not voter fraud, but actually voter registration fraud, a point somehow lost by such brilliant intellects.

That's gotta be it, jp2. You're trying to get McCain elected:

ACORN, Voter Fraud, Illegal Contributions, and the Coming Liberal Nanny State

"What we are beginning to learn is that it is little more than a massive exercise in voter fraud and mischief of all kinds. Dead Indians and illegal aliens have long been a significant Democratic voting base in certain parts of the country but now that concept of electoral fraud has spread throughout the nation.
ACORN has long suckled at the public teat. It has rewarded such trust and expenditures of the public treasury by managing to subject itself to scrutiny or investigation in no less than eleven different states by submitting thousands of fraudulent new voter registrations. The usual dead suspects are now being supplemented by small children and even the names of sport celebrities."

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/10/29/acorn-voter-fraud-illegal-contributions-and-the-coming-liberal-nanny-state/

Breaking with the talking points of his fellow Republicans in Washington, Florida Gov. Charlie Crist said he does not think voter fraud and the vote-registration group ACORN are a major problem in the Sunshine State. ''I think that there's probably less [fraud] than is being discussed. As we're coming into the closing days of any campaign, there are some who enjoy chaos,'' Crist told reporters. ... But the day before, when Gov. Crist was asked if he had any suspicions or evidence that ACORN was up to anything illegal or unethical, he gave a quick and brief reply: ``No.''

Voter fraud is real

Okay...point out some recent instances of voter fraud. Last election had tremendous amounts of press on voter fraud and we had an AG resign due to a scandal linked to voter fraud.

Give me some stories about this great problem of voter fraud over the last few elections. Something that could swing an election if possible.

Brian:

One good idea for the country is to have a highly trained, well educated, professional class of people elected by everyone, whose only job it would be to watch over all of the things that effect each of us.

How about the country's infrastructure, like bridges, dams, highways, and an interest in electrical power generation and the electric grids that distribute the power to all. This to name a few things of general interest.

How about this same class of people writing laws that are neutral in terms of the effect on persons.

But wait, there is such a group already, it is called Congress. And every two years, we have the opportunity to replace all of one body and a third of the other.

I say get a new bunch in office; fire them all, Republicans and Democrats both. I believe we deserve better than what we have seen from our professional political class over the past 30 years from BOTH parties.

You would have to start by defining terms and telling us what will convince you, because otherwise it's just an exercise in moving goal posts, and who has time for that?

Give me some stories about this great problem of voter fraud over the last few elections. Something that could swing an election if possible.

jp2:

It usually takes a generation of so for all of the details to eventually ooze out under the door on voter fraud. This reasons for this are obvious. The truth will out, but not for some time passing.

When the vote is close, is when you get fraud.

For example, Lyndon Baines Johnson was elected to the Senate for the first time because 248 votes were sent in from Starr County three days after the election was over. You can look it up. Oddly enough,the voters for that block of votes lined up in alphabetical order. ROFLMAO

Here is another possible fraud situation. We will not know for sure for a few decades I would guess;

In at least one Democratically controlled county in Florida, one or more poll workers realized just how close the election was and that Who got Florida would win. So they decided to take some blank ballots and punch them for Gore.

How do we know this? Easy; it seems that the only way you can reproduce a "Hanging Chad," is to take a stack and try to punch through them. The ones near the bottom develop the famous "Hanging Chad."

Just so you don't think I am gaming you, like Kerry did for his Purple Hearts, here is a Liberal site devoted to voter fraud.

Posting this link does NOT mean I agree with the contents.

Here's a link for jp2

Stealing elections is a time honored world wide game and has been for a very, very long time.

Not exactly any proof of voter fraud there Larry and a poor effort really. If this is such a rampant problem, it should be easy to find several recent stories of massive voter fraud.

Again, can anyone point to any cases of voter fraud over the last 3 major elections? I guess I'll take large or small cases at this point, but anything that can swing an election would be preferred.

One short point not mentioned yet - If McCain wins, the voter registration fraud going on now will be passed off as "look at all these disenfranchised people who didn't get to vote!!!"
Grace

Again, can anyone point to any cases of voter fraud over the last 3 major elections?

And yet between October 2002 and September 2005, just 38 cases were brought nationally, and of those, 14 ended in dismissals or acquittals, 11 in guilty pleas, and 13 in convictions. ... of those 38 prosecutions that the Justice Department brought between 2002 and 2005, a grand total of two were for fabricating or falsifying voter registration applications.

That's what I thought Brian.

Thanks.

There is a lot more to voter fraud than votes, but for the sake of an example, jp2, here is a small case from 2004:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041019/NEWS09/410190343

Since there is nothing less biased than ThinkProgress reporting on the Washington Post editorializing about a Project Vote study. I am completely convinced now that ACORN and others should be given a free hand and that there is no reason to doubt them!

At least you figured out how to get the URL right this time son.

Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.

What URL did I get wrong?

Since there is nothing less biased than...

Then you should appreciate my second link, which cites Justice Department records.

Here is an interesting little story, too:

"The New Hampshire town of Sutton admits that it voided every vote Ron Paul received. The Congressman got 31 votes and yet due to a "human error," Sutton reported zero votes for Ron Paul. How "human error" can explain not counting 31 votes in succession for one single candidate is beyond the pale and Ron Paul's campaign should ask for a recount across New Hampshire immediately.

- As soon as people went public with the fact that their votes in Sutton had not been counted, other districts where Paul had supposedly received zero votes, such as Greenville, suddenly changed their final tallies and attributed votes to the Congressman."

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2008/010908_widespread_fraud.htm

Hey, and what about this one?

Inquiry finds evidence of fraud in election
Cast ballots outnumber voters by 4,609

"Investigators said Tuesday they found clear evidence of fraud in the Nov. 2 election in Milwaukee, including more than 200 cases of felons voting illegally and more than 100 people who voted twice, used fake names or false addresses or voted in the name of a dead person."

http://www2.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=324933

And of course this video is just hearsay.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/10/18/first-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-ohio/

So all that much ado about ACORN couldn't possibly true, could it?

Umm, maybe I am understanding this wrong, but did anyone do the math. They claim to have registered 1.3 million new voters, is this prefraud or post fraud, as if they have revised this to about a thrid, it is about 433,333 new voters. Lets give them 450,000. If 400,000+ are frauds, then that only leaves them with about 50,000 new voters and slowly getting smaller. Wow, what a royal waste of money and time. Did they register any real voters at all?

LaMedusa, the Sutton, NH story hits close to home to me. The person who made the error was also the first person to catch it and the first person to correct it, and STILL was getting death threats from across the country.

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/01/15/nuts-will-out.php

And if no one else will bring up the 2004 Washington gubernatorial race, then I will.

AMAZING how just enough "lost" ballots were discovered to put the Democrat from losing by 261 to winning by 129...

J.

GREAT examples so far. The Milwaukee one, from the same site:

"U.S. Attorney Steve Biskupic has said investigators found no evidence of widespread fraud. About a dozen cases, including felons who illegally voted or people who allegedly voted twice, were prosecuted, with spotty results."

http://www2.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=2/26/2008&id=36228

Keep em coming. And the phone jamming scandal by Republicans (which had prosecutions) doesn't count. I already know about that one.

Big deal if you knew about it, if you commented as such, I sure didn't see it.

The other article says a dozen cases, not votes.

J,

I'm sure there are plenty more that are buried in google somewhere.