Does Bristol have a job? How will she support this child? I hope she doesn't become a burden on society. My tax dollars shouldn't be used to bring up her children!

Don't worry, Pete. You'd need to actually have a job and pay taxes before THAT would happen.

Sheesh. Lousy quality of trolls any more. Did they fire the QC folks at TrollWorks or something?

>Does Bristol have a job? How will she support this child? I hope
>she doesn't become a burden on society. My tax dollars
> shouldn't be used to bring up her children!

Nice try libtard, but Bristol and her child will have a *family* to assist. To explain, families are those outdated social constructs that 300-400 millions years of evolution devised to accomodate the change of generations in many higher life forms. I understand that all may strange to you, what with your education to the contrary, but I think in this case it may just be possible that this young lady and her soon-to-be husband may be able to make it *without* ending up on the dole as your philosophy would dictate. Believe it or not, some people still find the notion of going to the welfare office and stating, in a loud voice, "Where my check at?" repellant.

Don't worry, Pete.

Her family believes in personal responsibility. They will help her. There will still be plenty of money left for you and your liberal ilk to mooch off of.

This is not story about abortion. This is a story about woman who believes in abstinence only education. The fact is, that it doesn't work as evidenced by her own daughter's pregnancy. Secondly what kind of a mother puts her daughter in this situation? If you think the press can ignore it you obviously have never watched the news. Sarah had to know that her whole family would be placed under a microscope (Come on, the press even tracked down Obama's half brother in Africa, a man that Obama hardly knew). Sarah is a woman who puts politics ahead of family, what kind of value is that?

Well, it is lucky for her she has a family with some means. I mean if they were poorer, they would be on their own and Republicans would certainly not be in favor of her getting any social services for help.

Hopefully this all works out for her. Were these typical Americans the poor girl would probably have to give up dreams of higher education and resign herself to working crappy jobs while the govermnet gave her no help and her child was unsupervised.

Luckily she does seem to have a family in place that loves her with means. 17 is too young though. It would be better if she could have protected herself. early pregancy is the consequence of absitence only education. Again lucky for her she doesn't have to bear the harsher elements of that policy.

I guess absitence education did work for her. If only

Another Republican values flip-flop. Now teen sex and pregnancy goes from the natural result of amoral liberal attitudes and policies to a proud blessing.

With McCain's anti-birth control policies in place, you can look forward to a lot more blessings.

And to think my opinion of Liberals couldn't get any lower. Ha!

There has to be a bottom, eventually, doesn't there?

By the way, you are surely missing the bigger story here:

"We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby"

DECISION?!?! You mean she had a choice? Sara Palin gave her daughter the choice?!

Looks like she's pro-choice after all. Though choice for she, not for thee.

Were these "typical" Americans...

I think this is where my eyes started to glaze over. jmc, you are a mess.

"think this is where my eyes started to glaze over. jmc, you are a mess."

I imagine reading usually makes your eyes glaze over..

I have a question for the right. If this girl were poor and working class how many would be in favor of goverment services to help the single 17 year old raise her child?

I think what this situation highlights is the crucial importance of supportive grandparents at a time like this. Babies brought up in such an environment rarely come to grief. But isn't that just real normal family life?

This young pregnant woman is hardly at risk of becoming a welfare queen in a housing project, with no support. She has parents who love her, and they will love and care for her, and her baby. If her young man has his wits about him, he will get clued up about parental responsibility, because he is surrounded by rather a lot of expertise.

Hey, Brian: you're damned right she had a choice. And of course people are going to refer to it. You know why?

BECAUSE THAT'S THE FUCKING LAW, YOU MORON.

Under the law as it stands, she could get an abortion without parental consent, or even notification. Instead, she made other choices -- to tell her family, to have the baby, to keep the baby, and to marry the father.

To deny that she had choices is to deny reality. And while you seem eminently comfortable denying reality and substituting your own, that didn't happen here.

You're SO right about the troll quality, JLawson. I gotta have a talk with the boneheads in QC...

J.

I imagine reading usually makes your eyes glaze over..

Only reading substance keeps my attention, jmc. Now, your question to the right has some substance to it, assuming you don't view "typical Americans" as unsympathetic.

JMC,

I have a question for you.

At what age are the families of the candidates off limits?

Obama says that his wife - an attorney and an adult over the age of 30 - is off limits.

By your continued obsession with the 17 year daughter of Palin, are you saying that Obama is wrong? Are Obama's 6 & 9 year old daughters "fair game" as well? (in your opinion - they absolutely are not in mine)

Are is it only acceptable when the candidate in question is a woman?

Let's save time.

Brian,

What is your opinion on the topic of the cut off age for family members of the candidates?

Do you think Obama is wrong and that all family members regardless of age should be "fair game" for "scoring political points" as you have and are continuing to do here?

Ok, first of all, Mr. Jay Tea - you are becoming a POTTY MOUTH today, and it's got to STOP.

That said - "Libtard" is almost as funny as the Boston Herald's new pet name for Obama..."OBUMMER". I seriously almost fell off my (breakfast) bar stool just now when I saw Libtard, so thanks for the laugh.

Finally, I work with many, many, many teen moms and EVERY FRICKEN ONE OF THEM is living off the locals, state and feds. Which means I am supporting them. Most have zero aspirations to get OFF of assistance, because it's fun to have EVERYTHING given to you on a silver platter - even gas money to get to and from school and (free) childcare.

If any one of my daughters, to whom I do preach abstinence, comes home pregnant - we have already discussed what abortion is and that it don't happen in this household. Babies are a gift from God, and although I would not jump for joy if the sixteen year old turned up preggers, she knows that we would support her, both financially and emotionally.

We had a teen mom and her toddler living here for quite a while last year, for FREE by the way, and ALL of us learned some valuable lessons about how not fun it is to be a teen mom without a boyfriend or husband.

Yes, I do preach abstinence here. I do not have a cookie jar full of condoms near the front door for date nights. I know people who do. It makes me sick. My kids know that an unwanted pregnancy is the least of their problems if they have sex with multiple partners, be it "protected" or not. Birth control is not STD control. Marriage is where sex is safe, wonderful and happy.

I have asked my daughters to please, please wait until they meet that very special someone AFTER high school before they even consider having sex. My eldest, now 22, did just that and thanks me all the time for asking her to make that promise to herself. Her fiance was her first, and vice versa.

I'm quite sure the trolls will be all over me for my statements, but I stand firmly beside them. I also don't hand out joints and bottles of Jack Daniels to my kids, then tell them "wink, wink" don't be drinkin' and smokin' now, ya hear???

I'm sure the Palins taught abstinence in their home. It didn't work with this child, but as a family, they will deal with this issue.

Yes. Palin supports abstinence only education. However, the curriculum in Alaskan schools is NOT abstinence only sex ed. This is OBVIOUSLY yet another failure of the public school system.

Brian - "DECISION?!?! You mean she had a choice? Sara Palin gave her daughter the choice?!

Looks like she's pro-choice after all. Though choice for she, not for thee."

Actually it looks like Obama's Grand Mother had the same issue. Can we assume Brian you had the same attitude when news broke that Obamna was born to a 17 year old mother?

All my conservative brothers and sisters. Don't be discouraged or frustrated by the lefty loons coming out of the wood work. They cannot wrap their mind around the fact that McCain out played the left and the MSM. All news cycles, blogs and radio are McCain/Palin. It is like Obama is old news now. ww

Do you think Obama is wrong and that all family members regardless of age should be "fair game" for "scoring political points" as you have and are continuing to do here?

In case you weren't paying attention (that's rhetorical... obviously you weren't), the "liberal" media knew all about this and kept it off limits. The major liberal blogs stayed away from the "Trig is Bristol's son" story.

It's Wizbang and Kim that decided it was fair game to score some political points off the story.

Somebody at The Underground was clever enough to figure things out some time ago, though I must concede I didn't think the dude was right. Evidently, telling the world that your teenage daughter has mono (in this case for 4 months, mind you) is a rather standard method to conceal her pregnancy.

Can we assume Brian you had the same attitude when news broke that Obamna was born to a 17 year old mother?

Of course. A woman should have the choice, whether it's Obama's mother or Palin's daughter.

Did you think you had a point there?

Hey, Brian: you're damned right she had a choice. And of course people are going to refer to it. You know why?
BECAUSE THAT'S THE FUCKING LAW, YOU MORON.

Hey, Jay, guess what? I DIDN'T SUGGEST IT WASN'T, YOU.... well, I have a bit more civility than you. And more reading comprehension, it seems.

Anyway, as Candy related, "we have already discussed what abortion is and that it don't happen in this household". Palin could have been of the same attitude, and stated "well of course she's going to keep the baby... that wasn't even in question!" She didn't.

Under the law as it stands, she could get an abortion without parental consent, or even notification.

Yes, and under the law that Palin supports, she would still be able to. You see, it requires parental consent only to those under 17. Which means that Palin is not opposed to her own minor daughter having a choice.

Candy, sorry about the language. I get worked up when politicians' children are used as weapons to beat up their parents.

Yeah, Brian, Palin supports changing the law. But she also took an oath to uphold the law, as it stands -- and right now, the law says the daughter could get an abortion without her parents' consent or even knowledge. She CHOSE to not avail herself of that option, and Mrs. Palin appreciated that -- what the (censored) is your problem with that, you (censored)?

Candy, you're gonna kill me...

J.

Yeah, Brian, Palin supports changing the law.

Yes, and once again, changing the law to still allow her minor 17 year old daughter a choice.

From Jonah Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism:

Sanger's genius was to ... [hitch] the racist-eugenic campaign to sexual pleasure and female liberation ... In a trope that would be echoed by later feminists such as Betty Friedan, she argued that motherhood itself was a socially imposed constraint on the liberty of women. It was a form of what Marxists called false consciousness to want a large family.

Sanger believed -- prophetically enough -- that if women conceived of sex as first and foremost a pleasurable experience rather than a procreative act, they would embrace birth control as a necessary tool for their own personal gratification. She brilliantly used the language of liberation to convince women they weren't going along with a collectivist scheme but were in fact "speaking truth to power," as it were ... Nonetheless, Sanger's analysis was surely correct, and led directly to the widespread feminist association of sex with political rebellion. Sanger in effect "bought off" women (and grateful men) by offering tolerance for promiscuity in return for compliance with her eugenic schemes.

Margaret Sanger's anti-morality (further expanded by radical feminists) resulted in hard-core progressives completely losing touch with traditional teachings about sexuality, marriage, and child rearing. This is the reason for all of the incredibly crude and ignorant comments from the Kostards and Moron.org loonies. They are totally out of touch with normalcy as we would define it, and as is typical for human beings, they react with fear and hatred toward things that they cannot comprehend.

Candy, I agree 100% with what you wrote. We traditionalists teach abstinence to our children simply so that our sons and daughters won't end up being gigolos, sluts and tramps. There, I said it. We understand that abstinence will not result in a 100% cessation of pregnancy. After all, God designed human beings with the ability and desire to procreate. But it will teach our children to respect their bodies -- girls should not use sex as a tool to subordinate men, and men should not use sex as a tool to dominate women.

On the other hand, pills, condoms, and the like may prevent a pregnancy but they do nothing toward teaching a girl about self esteem, self control, and the sanctity of her own body. Ditto for abortion on demand. The loneliness, emptiness, and utter despair that plague sexually promiscuous women is well-documented (e.g. Looking for Mr. Goodbar). And then there are the problems with STD's, particularly hepatitis and HIV.

As human beings we all have the ability to make choices. Sometimes we make choices without thinking through the consequences. But it is in dealing with those consequences (and more often, the consequences of events that we cannot control) that we undergo true spiritual growth. The mark of a Christian is not rigid puritanical legalism; rather it is the ability to overcome difficult circumstances through love, hope, and grace.

Abstinence goes hand and hand with responsibility. Traditional families believe that if two people make the decision to enter into a sexual relationship and they make a baby, they are expected to be responsible for their actions. Initially, the grandparents-to-be may be shocked, angered, and disappointed. But love and grace always trumps these emotions, and new life will always be celebrated when strong, supportive families are involved. This appears to be the case with Bristol Palin.

Candy, it seems that you have had experiences similar to mine, with teenage mothers from broken homes and families void of any kind of real spiritual guidance. It is always a shame to see runaway sexuality in those situations -- those girls seem to have latched on the "pleasurable experience" aspect of feminist sexuality, without bothering to trouble themselves with the birth control part.

I could go on at length about all the heartbreaking things that one sees in those situations, and how liberals believe that they are doing a world of good by trying to introduce guilt-free abortion as a way out for those teens, but I'll end by simply saying that I am glad, Candy, that you still believe abstinence and self-control are the most important things to teach your kids.

"Yes, and once again, changing the law to still allow her minor 17 year old daughter a choice..."

"...to murder her baby or not."

You forgot that final part, Brian.

Palin has proven that she lacks the ability to even have control over her own household and 17 year old daughter, yet some Americans want her to be vice president where she could become president in the event of a national emergency and have her finger on the nuclear "red button" or have to deal with Vladimir Putin of Russia, or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, or Kim Jong-Il. of North Korea.

In questionnaires, Palin has so far only proven that she supports teaching creationism or supports teacher led school prayer, and has displayed no known knowledge of world affairs so far, yet some want her to be just one heartbeat from commander of the most powerful military in the world.

Some people set some interestingly low standards for their leadership.

They say that the voters also get the government they deserve when only about half of persons even bother to vote, are poorly informed, etc. Palin fits that anything goes standard pretty darn good where not very much is required at all. It's Republican affirmative action at it's very worst where poorly qualified persons should be elected only if they support a few fringe issues like opposition to Gay marriage while their own kids are getting pregnant out of wedlock. Okay. But I'm not very impressed myself.

Hooson, the "control over her family" meme is idiotic. Her daughter is owning up to her responsibilities by keeping the baby and marrying the father.

You might have had a point if her daughter murdered the unborn baby, but alas...her daughter is, as I said, owning up to her responsibilities. As she's been taught.

Paul, I seem to recall a certain former First Lady who had difficulties exercising "control over her family" as well. Of course someone like that would never be fit to run for the Presidency, would they?

Mr. Hooson says:

Palin has proven that she lacks the ability to even have control over her own household and 17 year old daughter...

This from a man who supports literally decades of laws and social programs that have had the effect -- and, I suspect, the intent -- of destroying parents' authority over their children.

Good god, the stench turns my stomach.

J.

brian

If what you do here on the pages of Wizbang is what you think of as "civility" you are not only a moron but a man, or perhaps a boy it often seems, who is lying to himself.

You and your ilk have demonstrated no interest here other than to stir the pot and hope for chaos.

News Flash from Mt. Obama:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/obama.palin/index.html

I agree that this pregnancy isn't anyone's business. If it were a democrat, it'd be plastered all over the blogs and the MSM, but that doesn't mean turn about is fair play.

Notably, this is just a distraction from the real stories: (1) Palin thinks creationism should be taught in schools; (2) She thinks rape victims should be forced to carry a rapist's child to term; and (3) she was cozy enough with indicted senator Ted Stevens that she was hand-picked as a director of his 527.

Do you think Obama is wrong and that all family members regardless of age should be "fair game" for "scoring political points" as you have and are continuing to do here?

In case you weren't paying attention (that's rhetorical... obviously you weren't), the "liberal" media knew all about this and kept it off limits. The major liberal blogs stayed away from the "Trig is Bristol's son" story.

It's Wizbang and Kim that decided it was fair game to score some political points off the story.

Is there a particular reason that you didn't quote my WHOLE question to you?

Brian,

What is your opinion on the topic of the cut off age for family members of the candidates?

Do you think Obama is wrong and that all family members regardless of age should be "fair game" for "scoring political points" as you have and are continuing to do here?

Given that your behavior in this post directly contradicts what Obama said, it was quite reasonable to ask you:

1. If you think he was wrong
2. Since you obviously think family members are "fair game", if there was any age that you would not consider them "fair game"

Are you too chicken to answer those questions?

The major liberal blogs stayed away from the "Trig is Bristol's son" story.

No they didn't, but the line was funny.

Palin has proven that she lacks the ability to even have control over her own household and 17 year old daughter.

Jay, do you have any specific examples to prove your point here. Or is this merely another of your opinions presented with only yourself as the final authority?

Mike, I deliberately sought to ignore the drinking problems of the Bush twins here. But like dad, like daughters I suppose. At least they stayed off the coke like dad or avoided arrest like dad as a young guy for theft or cocaine abuse. But then again look at the leadership of this guy.

Tom, I certainly respect anyone who does not kill a innocent baby in abortion. But a controversial story has existed for years that a young 21 year old Bush got a 15 year old girlfriend pregnant and the Bush family quickly arranged an abortion for her to cover up this embarrassment so the the older Congressman Bush who was the father of younger Bush would not be hit with political scandal. Abortion was illegal in Texas at this time because this was before Roe v. Wade, so this was likely an illegal abortion if this story is indeed true. But the claim of the former girlfriend of Bush who is now a married woman disputes this story.

Well at least there's no one in the Obama family doing this crazy stuff by comparison. There's a wholesome family I can respect and admire.

So Hoosen has now joined the mob with pitchforks. Earlier today, he managed to get through a post in the hurricane thread with only one unnecessary and uncalled for snark so I thought he was having a good day.

Let's take his "logic" to the next step.

Obama has said that there is no reason to discuss the issue because the candidates familes - and ESPECIALLY THE CANDIDATES CHILDREN - should be off-limits. He further stated that the situation says nothing about Palin's abilities either as a governor or a candidate.

Should we question Obama's fitness to lead since he obviously cannot keep his supporters from trying to use a candidates child to score political points about the candidate's fitness to lead?

Mr.Hoosan,
Where are your sources to back up your allegation about President Bush impregnating
a 15 year old?
Or are you into slandering a sitting president?

It appears your lengthening tongue is firmly concreted in your cheek.

If Kitty Kelley attacks are the best the left can muster, I'd say the pick is holding up really well after the first public vetting. How long ago was the creationism meme demolished, Kitty - er, I mean Paul?

For the record, my last post was based on Hoosen's earlier one.

His later post speaks to no ones morals (or lack thereof) but his own.

I wasn't aware that either of the Bush twins had a "drinking problem", other than being normal, crazy teenage college students.

"But a controversial story has existed for years..."

You really should've stopped right there, since this is exactly what you described, along with the phrase, "...unsubstantiated with any proof whatsoever."

The burden is on you to prove such an idiotic story is true if you choose to bring it up, Hooson.

"Mike, I deliberately sought to ignore the drinking problems of the Bush twins here. But like dad, like daughters I suppose. At least they stayed off the coke like dad or avoided arrest like dad as a young guy for theft or cocaine abuse. But then again look at the leadership of this guy."

News flash for you, Hooson. Your guy admitted he dabbled in drugs and alcohol while in high school. Of course you won't question his leadership ability on the same topic, will you? Nitwit.

Maggie, controversial publisher Larry Flynt first started circulation of the Bush-abortion scandal story during the 2000 election during CNN's Politics Today program hosted by Robert Novak. But in the transcripts of the show, Flynt's entire statements were deleted by CNN, apparently under pressure from the Bush Campaign.

While Flynt had even provided the name of the 15 year old involved and the medical offices where the illegal abortion was carried out, the woman involved has always denied the story.

According to the claims of Flynt, the Bush family even made use of a staffer of the then Congressman Bush to arrange the illegal abortion to prevent a family political scandal. In a seperate scandal, Congressman Bush used pressure on a judge when the younger George was arrested on cocaine use charges to arrange for community service at Houston's Martin Luther King House for his son and having the charges and arrest record sealed upon completion of this community service. Bush has offered up some absurd story before while president claiming that the National Guard "stationed" him at this social service organization which makes no sense at all. Bush was also arrested once before on theft charges. With Dick Cheney's arrest records for driving under the influence, Bush and Cheney are the only sitting president anmd vice president in Anerican history to have been arrested and convicted of crimes, although relatively minor ones. However, the cocaine arrest would have been a felony under Texas law if the Bush family was not given special treatment while others went to prison and were tagged as felons for life in Texas.

As controversial as Larry Flynt is, his past political stories about the affairs my a number of members of the Senate and Congress have always prove true in the past and even resulted in the resignation of Speaker Of The House Livingston. So Flynt has had a mostly good track record for stories he has purchased and ran in the past.

Maggie, this what I know about these stories, but you are free to search Google if you wish to learn more.

Apparently, Hooson doesn't know the difference between rumors and proven, substantiated facts, Maggie.

Paul, at some point I would hope you realize that you are only digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. At that point, we will understand your embarassment and most of us will not even harass you too much about it. But it is well past obvious that you cannot support your attacks on Bush with a anything like substantive evidence, and that you do your reputation no benefit by trying to press it further.

Even Michael Moore gave up on tha particular slime attack. Maybe he believes it, but even he knew better than to try to sell it. It's a sad day, when your credibility is below that of Micheal Moore.

"...to murder her baby or not."
You forgot that final part, Brian.

Hmm, OK, if you say so. "Palin supports allowing her minor 17 year old daughter a choice to murder her baby or not."

Does that make you feel better?

It is nice to see Ms Palin upfront about her daughter. Geez imagine if Mr. Clinton had done the same or at least stepped down when impeached.
Honesty is the best policy. Folks need to get over this and move on to the real concerns and issues in America.

Tom, I am certainly aware that young Barack Obama had experimented with drugs or alcohol as most young persons unfortunately do. Unlike Bush, he has been real upfront about this in his writings. As late as 1988, Bush was known to abuse alcohol and was involved in a an alcohol fueled disruption in a restaurant with a Wall Street Journal reporter after the Wall Street Journal reported on a primary loss by the older Bush.

I'm not crazy about Barack Obama's smoking either, as I'm very antismoking myself and my own mother died of respiratory problems like COPD due to other person's second hand smoke and required almost $800 in medication each month in order to stay alive during the last years of her life due to the selfishness of smokers.

If I have any prejudice against Obama, it is that I do not like his smoking one bit personally. I certainly hope he quits this awful habit.

Paul, did you and Reality have another fight? It's obvious from your posts that you two are not speaking to each other right now.

Is there a particular reason that you didn't quote my WHOLE question to you?

Because it was a poor attempt to change the subject, not worth perpetuating.

Given that your behavior in this post directly contradicts what Obama said

Not me. It was Kim who made the post. Oh, and DJ made one. And Jay. Talk to them.

No they didn't, but the line was funny.

Yes they did. I provided a link to back up what I said. To paraphrase you, are you too chicken to do the same?

Ms. Palin has got the dems running scared.
Imagine 'real change' with McCain/Palin
in 08 versus the sameo with Obama/Biden.

"Hmm, OK, if you say so. "Palin supports allowing her minor 17 year old daughter a choice to murder her baby or not."

Good for you, you're on to the next step after you admit you've been wrong on that issue for so long.

It is nice to see Ms Palin upfront about her daughter.

Oh, yes. Because if Obama announced that his 17 year old unmarried daughter was pregnant and was going to keep it, we all know how the right would be lauding him for being upfront, congratulating him for raising her well, calling it a boost to his candidacy, and claiming it will help him win over evangelicals.

Hoo boy.

Someone noticed that Hooson tosses around allegations and rumors as established facts, but never offers a single bit of evidence to back it up. Asking him for verification for his statements is essentially triggering his monologuing, which will touch upon his financial successes, tremendous generosity, and other aspects that elevate him from the tedious burdens of having to prove his statements.

I'll sit this one out, thanks. I've seen how it ends too many times.

J.

Brian
had Obama been honest about his relationships he would have been more respected. wright, his relative living on $1 a month, terrorist connections, his house, and the list goes on and on. Or how about all the promises he made in the campaign and keeps changing his mind about his stances on the issues. Yeah it's clear to me what he means by 'change'.

DJ, I clearly stated the claimed illegal abortion scandal story of the younger Bush was controversial because the woman who was supposedly involved has clearly disputed the story before. But the story was part of the discussion of CNN's Inside Politics hosted by Robert Novak in 2000 which means that it was a legitimate news discussion piece and not just some crazy blogger conspiracy piece story of some sort. That's high enough of a standard to discuss it here.

More details are available online about the name of the claimed 15 year old who was supposedly made pregnant by a young Bush as well as the medical clinic in which the claimed illegal abortion was performed. A Google search easily brings up any details for anyone really interested in this old story during the 2000 election. But since the woman involved disputes the story as false, it remains a highly controversial story.

I think that is a pretty clear position that the story is controversial and disputed so I cannot verify whether the story is true or not for this very reason. However, the source of the story was Larry Flynt who has been correct about other political scandals including the affair scandal story that resulted in the resignation of Speaker Of The House Robert Livingston before. So Flynt does have some credibility with some of his stories that he runs in HUSTLER or on his political website www.larryflynt.com.

I think the standard that this story was discussed on CNN's Inside Politics was certainly high enough to at least mention this story. And I have been fully truthful that this story remains controversial unlike other stories about the conduct of young Bush where a better trail of hard evidence stands.

The discussion here is about the pregnancy revelations of Sarah Palin's teenage daughter, and the old Bush story also involves teenage pregnancy as a story as well, so both stories are worthy of some mention here. I noticed that both Jay Tea and DJ have apparently taken some measures to prevent a discussion of the Sarah Palin's daughter story, while this feature remains open to comments on this important news story here.

Good for you, you're on to the next step after you admit you've been wrong on that issue for so long.

Wrong about what? You asked me to reframe the issue in your terminology, so I did. In your view, therefore, you approve of a candidate who supports allowing a minor to murder her baby.

That's you, pal, not me. I do not support allowing a minor 17 year old a choice to murder her baby. However, I do support allowing a 17 year old a choice to abort her pregnancy.

"I do not support allowing a minor 17 year old a choice to murder her baby."

Once again, you're correct, Brian. I'm happy you finally see what abortion truly is. Murder. Good for you!

Mr. Hooson twaddles:

I noticed that both Jay Tea and DJ have apparently taken some measures to prevent a discussion of the Sarah Palin's daughter story, while this feature remains open to comments on this important news story here.

That would be because I have long stood against using the children of politicians as public fodder, right up until that offspring makes some affirmative actions towards ending their status as a private citizen. Chelsea Clinton was off-limits until she started campaigning with her mother. The Bush twins remain off the table. Gore's kids are exempt, except for Al Gore III's arrest for drugs, booze, and drunken driving -- he coulda killed someone. Mary Cheney had no business in the 2004 vice-presidential debates.

That's my principle, and I stick by it. If Mr. Hooson is unfamiliar with such things, he is free to investigate them to his heart's content.

The initial rumors -- that Palin's fifth child was actually her teenage daughter's -- infuriated me no end. That the only way Palin could end those was to reveal to the nation that a seventeen-year-old girl had gotten herself pregnant at about the same time Mrs. Palin was giving birth appalls and disgusts me.

And Mr. Hooson's harping and pontificating on the subject makes me want to either vomit or smash my monitor. The others, like Pete, G-man, Brian, jmc, and Herman, just to name a few, also bug me, but Hooson brings his own special sanctimoniousness and condescension and faux idealism that really chafes me.

I have forsworn the Hammer on this thread, as it is Kim's call. I knew I could not trust myself on my own, so I closed the comments there.

And I keep telling myself it was the right choice.

J.

Jay, I had only asked you to explain any details to support your claim that I support "decades" of "laws" and "social programs" that have been destructive to "parent's control" over their children as you claimed. I have no idea what specific examples you are even talking about. Could you explain?

I'm also not sure what your personal attacks on me have to do with the Sarah Palin story either. But you often seem to slip into this stuff whenever you wish to duck real details to support some of your claims on issues.

I have certainly have made more than decent attempts to support any claims for any of my editorial pieces published either on Wizbang Blue or my own Progressive Values website, and have offered up documentation or other proof whenever you or others brought this up. I noticed you have closed your own feature on the Sarah Palin story to comments to question your position on this breaking news story that has been under heavy discussion by CNN and other legitimate news sources for the last couple of hours today. You even used a string of obscenities in your piece to substitute for any real discussion of the story at hand as though that is a sufficient standard of journalistic integrity as well.

Not much is really known about Governor Palin and the Palin's daughter story is unfortunately the most that most voters now know about Palin so far. If anything this is a big story in itself for this very reason.

Why is Hoosen allowed to stay here? He breaks copy right laws and post out right lies.
He was a long-winded annoyance on Lorrie Byrd's site and he seems to have gone off in left field somewhere.

I admire the Palin's and their pro-life decisions. It's nice to see a family that can relate to the average american with the day to day living, jobs, ... .

At a higher level...This is probably not popular but I do not feel that pro life or/and pro abortion should be handled at the national level. Instead it should be handled at the state/local levels. In other words its not a topic that sways me to vote for someone or against someone for Pres/VP.

Mr.Hoosan is one of the most insidiously
dishonest posters on wizbang. He assumes he
is so enlightened and progressive it makes
him superior to all others here.
He posts with no remorse or respect as to
truth.
And as to your responder Hoosan. I don't have
to google anything, you are the one who made
the highly questionable charges against a sitting president. Either you can post access to the truth of your allegations or be considered irresponsible and off colour permanently.

Is there a particular reason that you didn't quote my WHOLE question to you?

Because it was a poor attempt to change the subject, not worth perpetuating.

Ok, now you have gone on record as refusing to state an age at which children of candidates are no longer "fair game" for scoring political points.

In contrast, your candidate has said that children of candidates ARE NEVER FAIR GAME.

Given that your behavior in this post directly contradicts what Obama said

Not me. It was Kim who made the post. Oh, and DJ made one. And Jay. Talk to them.

So, now you are claiming that you have NEVER discussed the topic of Palin's daughter's pregnancy.....

By the way, you are surely missing the bigger story here:

"We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby"
DECISION?!?! You mean she had a choice? Sara Palin gave her daughter the choice?!

Looks like she's pro-choice after all. Though choice for she, not for thee.

9. Posted by Brian | September 1, 2008 4:46 PM | Score: -10 (12 votes cast)

And that was just one of the posts with your name on it ...

No they didn't, but the line was funny.

Yes they did. I provided a link to back up what I said. To paraphrase you, are you too chicken to do the same?

This exchange was in response to Brian's claim:

The major liberal blogs stayed away from the "Trig is Bristol's son" story.

Brian's link, however, discussed the fact that specific liberal bloggers PERSONALLY did not discuss the story.

Very different from the whole blog "staying away from the story".

I can only assume that Brian

Denise, I have many years of respect for Lorie Byrd as a writer, a genuinely nice person, and a fellow fan of television shows. Lorie has always been very nice to me, and I have been decent to her as well as well as encouraging. We seem to have a mutual respect for each other as writers just as I have respect for DJ and sometimes the writings of Jay Tea. Political differences is not a good reason not to respect other writers at all.

Denise, just because I sometimes disagree on some political topics is not a good reason for me to have any personal anger at any writer. Politics is only one area of interest. Jay Tea like Sci Fi, so do I for example. Politics is a single issue out of thousands of possible issues. And I probably have a lot of faith in God in common with DJ as well.

A line was cut off of my previous post:

It was supposed to be:

"I can only assume that Brian doesn't actually read what he posts".

Slightly different topic:

Paul, did you and Reality have another fight? It's obvious from your posts that you two are not speaking to each other right now.

DJ,

Well said, well said.

"But you often seem to slip into this stuff whenever you wish to duck real details to support some of your claims on issues."

This from the man who takes it as a person affront when you ask HIM to document his allegations.

That's what soured me on you, Paul. I sent you a polite, collegial e-mail that if you were going to say, in absolute language, that a certain public figure had a sexual relationship with another man, you really ought to back that up with at least a single quote or link. From that, you literally spent days lecturing me on your character, your wealth, your generosity, your skilled and expensive lawyers, your business and financial successes -- everything but what I had actually raised as a concern.

That's when I decided you weren't worth collegial gestures, Hooson. About the fifth time you spat in my face and told me I should savor the rare pleasure.

I went through one Blue author trying to maintain a civil behind-the-scenes rapport, but that author wanted to be chummy in e-mail and assail me in public. I decided, then and there, that that would not do -- my own personal integrity demanded that I hold the same mindset both in public and in private.

Your disrespect towards me in private -- and, later, in public, when you chose to publicly discuss that private correspondence without asking or notifying me in advance, as a courtesy -- convinced me that maintaining any kind of collegial conversation in public would be wasted.

In cases like this, I've found it wise to follow the example of Cordelia Chase:

"Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass."

J.

Brian -

"I do not support allowing a minor 17 year old a choice to murder her baby. However, I do support allowing a 17 year old a choice to abort her pregnancy."

And at what point does the 'pregnancy' turn into a baby?

I'm pro-choice - have been for a long time, considering it the mother's right to choose. That took a real hit, however, when my wife became pregnant, and the little guy was born over ten years ago. The nurses cleaned him up, laid him in my lap - and he was looking up at me with big clear eyes and a rather puzzled expression on his face as if to say "That was odd... what's next?"

I still support abortion - but I don't see it as a good or worthy thing. So at what point does the pregnancy turn into a baby, in your not-so-humble opinion?

Tomorrows' New Obama Times headline,
"McCAINS' VP PUNISHES DAUGHTER WITH BABY!"

"I do not support allowing a minor 17 year old a choice to murder her baby."
Once again, you're correct, Brian. I'm happy you finally see what abortion truly is. Murder.

No, because a fetus isn't a baby. Playing by your word games, I'm happy that you finally admit that abortion is not "murdering a baby".

Ok, now you have gone on record as refusing to state an age at which children of candidates are no longer "fair game" for scoring political points.

No, I've gone on record as refusing to get drawn into an off-topic debate with you. If you want a post dealing with the topic you keep trying to push me to, there are several of Jay's for you to go visit on your own.

So, now you are claiming that you have NEVER discussed the topic of Palin's daughter's pregnancy.....

No, I didn't say that at all. I never initiated the discussion, though.

Brian's link, however, discussed the fact that specific liberal bloggers PERSONALLY did not discuss the story.
Very different from the whole blog "staying away from the story"

Ah, cherry-picking comments from a blog. How desperate of you.

"I can only assume that Brian doesn't actually read what he posts".

No, it's just that you don't read what I post.

I still support abortion - but I don't see it as a good or worthy thing.

Nor do I. Nor do the vast majority of those who support it, the loud ones notwithstanding.

So at what point does the pregnancy turn into a baby, in your not-so-humble opinion?

It is a "baby" when it's born. So says the gov't when you attempt to claim a fetus as a tax deduction.

That's not to say that there's no line past which a fetus should be protected, but that line is far beyond when it's just a handful of cells.

I see Brian's still enamored with cutesy word games. Back to the topic at hand:

I'm sure Todd and Sarah Palin were hoping that their daughter would be older before she started a family, but they are, nonetheless, proud that their daughter shares their belief in taking personal responsibility and that the life of an unborn baby is precious and should be loved and nurtured, not destroyed.

Kim said it best. Abortion is an unthinkable option to the Palin's. They disagree with you Brian, which is all that matters. Enough said.

"I can only assume that Brian doesn't actually read what he posts".

No, it's just that you don't read what I post.

Congratulations, Brian.

You almost got one right.

I usually don't read what you post.

Why? Because as you have ably demonstrated here, you are so interested in the battle, that you rarely remain consistent in your comments (or your expressed beliefs) from the first comment you make on a post to the last one you make on the same post.

Every once in awhile, it's just fun to pull your chain. :-D

Very good Ohio. You described Brian to a tee.

Jay Tea, I am with you on Paul Hooson. He is so pompous and smug. Always tooting his horn. "Look how great and wonderful I am" he shouts. When actually, he bores me and I seldom believe his. ww

Sorry I'm late, but I was enjoying the holiday (Labor Day, Hyper).

Palin has proven that she lacks the ability to even have control over her own household and 17 year old daughter -Hooson

Paul,
You have proven you lack the ability to to even have control over a scooter, and yet you keep passing yourself as some kind of motorcyclist.

Why not just call yourself a 1%er? One of the few exaggerations you haven't tried...

This is absolutely hilarious.

There are far too many idiotic postings by the libs here to address. Most have been satisfactorily batted down.

The fact that Palin said she's happy with her daughter's decision tells me that she recognizes that her daughter has options. Twist that anyway you like, but it won't negate it.

Furthermore, Sarah Palin's opinions are fair game, but to extrapolate from any of her opinions that she would or ever has actively tried to usurp existing law, especially Roe v Wade, is disingenuous. This was not one of her "pet-peeves", if you will. When asked about it, she gave her opinion and clearly stated that it wasn't one of her focuses in governing Alaska.

And last but not least, some trying to pin her daughter's pregnancy on the failure of abstinence-only education is absurd. Children attending Alaskan public schools are receiving a more comprehensive sex-education than simply abstinence-only.

To me, she looks like a lovely young lady from a very loving and caring family. She, and her boyfriend, made a mistake. The rest of you ghouls can carry on all you want, but most of your rantings are just emotional crap and ill-thought out conceptions (no pun intended).

I had to laugh at one quote I found in a blog that stated:
"Next, you'll be exposing the Palin family dog as a real bitch."

Talk about Sarah Palin, but LEAVE HER DAUGHTER OUT OF IT.

Talk about Sarah Palin, but LEAVE HER DAUGHTER OUT OF IT.

Indeed. I have zero to say about Sarah Palin's children (any of them), except for leave them alone. Anyone who does not is a scumbag who is essentially admitting he/she cannot make an argument against Palin on the merits. Such an argument is not hard to make, but even if it were, families should be left the fuck alone.

It would be nice if everyone, left and right, were to imagine a reverse hypothetical. Imagine one of Obama's daughters was 17, unmarried, and pregnant. Would you react the same way? You should, and the only decent way to react is to leave the family alone.