Posted on 12/07 at 05:15 PM
If we can't mock a community full of spineless sheep like that, who can we mock?
Chuck

Perhaps if we mocked that sort of behavior more often we wouldn't have quite so many of these shooting spree's. Additionally when they did occur perhaps we wouldn't see them go on so long.

Lets remember that the one hero of VT was not a sheeple: Witnesses to Monday's shooting rampage said Librescu had barricaded the door to his classroom with his body so his students could escape through the window. The 76-year-old Romanian-born professor was then shot to death by the gunman, Cho Seung Hui.

Sorry the comment you deride may be crude but it is a valid criticism. We have been taught for too long to give up when facing aggression. Perhaps it is time we learn another lesson and ridicule is a good way to shock us into another path.

Flt 93 did not give up. Many students and teachers at VT gave up...the crude comment is not false just poorly framed.

Finally perhaps a reading of Nation of Cowards is in order?

I would tend to agree with Pierre - it may be in bad taste, but instead of daring to fight back, most of the students and teachers put their trust in an agency far outside the fight to save them - and lost.

The concept of legitimate self-defense is anathema to some, who see the government as being the only possible source of aid or assistance in crisis situations. So when faced with something like this, instead of fighting back the people are conditioned to sit and wait for someone else to do something.

It really starts small. "Nothing you have is worth hurting someone over" - and you're urged to get out of the house in case of a home invasion. "Your life is too important to risk" - and the rape victim is told that they should never EVER think of fighting the rapist, because that could make them mad. "Let the carjacker have your car" - and you let criminals have authority over you. Do not fight back under any circumstances - it's not your responsibility!

And then we plaster the 'successful' criminals on TV 24/7, until they wear out their media welcome. With the glorification of crimes like Columbine, VT, and now this - it's a friggin' wonder we don't have a hell of a lot more of them.

There's probably some level of truth to Chuck's statement which varies form person to person.

The real problem is that being sheep has been institutionalized. In addition to being encouraged to abdicating our self-defense rights, that school was a gun free zone. Easy prey for armed nuts.

The comment is outrageous because it's so hurtful. It's not the idea but the delivery. Looking past the expression, the idea is worth discussing.

As a teacher, I see how this mindset begins, and it's a two-pronged problem.

Kids are not allowed to fight back. Bullies get away with viciousness, and yes, words can too hurt, If a victim or his/her friend could get away with laying the bully out, bullies would dwindle.

Secondly but at the other extreme, simple 'kid speak' is being "criminalized" and tattling is rampant. If a 6th grade boy calls another a "nerd," the first boy is reported by some other kid and ends up in the principal's office.

I am willing to bet that if a shooter went to College Station, Chuck would be a sheeple. That's what makes his statement so stupid.

Probably some football or sports team rivalry mentality inspired this foolishness, which went way too far for good taste or common sense. It's also further scientific proof that the brains of youth are not yet fully developed in the areas of reason like older folks.

As a Penn State graduate, I can say this isn't a "college rivalry" but it is representative of a mentality of a portion of the Penn State population. A small portion. There were smaller killing incidents at Penn State, the most recent in 1996. Poor judgement, alcohol and drugs, and large numbers of young people in relatively confined areas guarantees you'll find stupid and arrogant behavior beyond normal societal limits. The internet gives them a larger audience to shock. BFD.

I've found the uncensored pictures here at ezineblog.org

Penn State Virginia Tech Halloween Costumes

http://ezineblog.org/?p=103

That's just sick.

More inane comments from people who have never been around assault weapons before. "Defend themselves?" Hahahahahahaha! I'd like to see any of your reactions with a SMURF charging at you with a semi-auto pistol and an assault rifle! Let alone a screaming, masked gunman!

The shooter LOCKED the doors to the building. What, exactly, were the victims supposed to use to defend themselves? Calculators? iPods? Other victims (like in the Bourne Ultimatum)?

I mean, seriously, are you guys adults? Charging a gunman...or even a crackhead with a knife....yeah...you guys have it all figured out!

#5 I am willing to bet that if a shooter went to College Station, Chuck would be a sheeple. That's what makes his statement so stupid.

That's an interesting point. Don't know much about Chuck, but I'm pretty certain the incident would have turned out diferently in College Station.

Penn State bans all weapons as policy. College Station is different than all the nearby towns, which is why I suspect Chuck would be another sheeple. I believe that a gunman would have return fire in most of Pennsylvania.

Penn State is located at State College, PA. College Station probably would be an entirely different story - it's the home of Texas A&M.

~~~~~~~~~

Concerning the whole "sheeple" concept, I tend to agree with Swamp Thing. It's one thing to rush the cockpit of hijackers armed with box-cutters when you know you will die anyway if you DON'T. It's quite another to walk into a firing weapon with none yourself. The shooter left the classroom to reload, so how were they to know he hadn't left altogether? It wasn't even a situation where someone could slip around behind the shooter, as I understand it.

The indident at VT should have been a good lesson for a lot of people but it has sailed right over their heads. Time to face facts, A S&W in hand beats a cop on the phone, and unless this was a poor college there should have been a supply of chairs/desks, anything to use as a weapon. Just start bothering me and watch, the first thing I do is start looking for a weapon. A fair fight if for fools.

It's reminiscent of that twit Bill Maher dressing up as the late Steve Irwin for Halloween last year, complete with sting ray barb sticking from his chest!
Class is apparently something that can't be taught!

oops, my bad. I have a daughter at Ok State who is a big sports fan, so I have College Station on my mind.

I have to say, I agree with many here that said (basically) that while this dude was a jerk in how he said it, the gist of his remarks is in fact accurate.

People are cowardly under pressure, and it is a trend that is getting worse. Cops have been told time and time again that they have no legal responsibility to risk their lives for the public, and so they don't.

He's a jerk for being so...jerkish, but the larger point is entirely valid.

Thanks for pointing that out Dave. Maybe it clarifies my tacit remark about Aggies, The Corp, and Texans in general.

I find it hard to imagine that Texans in the Bryan area would react similarly because of cultural and community reasons. Simply said, there are probably more well (and openly) armed citizens in the vicinity of the A&M campus than VT.

Ironically, one of the first campus massacres in recent memory was Charles Whitman's Tower sniping in Austin. Local law enforcement had to contend with, among other things, armed citizens returning fire in that tragedy.

#11 - I believe that a gunman would have return fire in most of Pennsylvania.

That's very true. I avoid State College as a general rule (I'm about 50 minutes away from it); it's too full of people whose parents have sheltered them their entire lives. However, outside of a few islands of stupidity, most of Pennsylvania is filled with people who like to conceal-carry, target shoot, and/or hunt.

Hugh, in the UT sniper situation, the police actually recruited assistance from civilians with hunting rifles, having them fire at the sniper's location thereby keeping him occupied as they attempted entry to the tower.

The fact that armed civilians returned fire at the sniper wasn't something police had to "contend" with...

Ok, yes it was assholish of them to dress as VT kids, but really people, it's fucking December. Get over it.

The police applied the response lessons they learned from Columbine and did the right thing - they breached as soon as they could. Chuck seems to be rather poorly informed.

However, he does have a point - with a couple of notable exceptions (a few people holding doors closed), most of the students simply struggled out windows or tried to play dead on the floor. Many of the latter, not surprisingly, died.

Of the ones who got away, I recall a student in an interview saying how he was the last one out, and that he heard the students trying to climb out behind him being shot. At no point did he seem to express any feeling other than "well, I got out, good for me, sucks to be them".

Chuck, poorly informed and tasteless as he is, has a valid point. Had they turned on him they'd have stopped the shooting much sooner and with fewer casualties, but that is simply not the kind of person most college students are these days. Many of you say people won't make the decision to risk their lives like that, but several did that day with the doors.

"More inane comments from people who have never been around assault weapons before. "Defend themselves?" Hahahahahahaha! I'd like to see any of your reactions with a SMURF charging at you with a semi-auto pistol and an assault rifle! Let alone a screaming, masked gunman!"

- Swamp thing - I've been around "assualt weapons" for years, and they have nothing to do with the VT shooting. There we're talking about a pistol, a regular, plain old freaking pistol. Do you know what the 21 foot rule is? Have you ever seen it demonstrated with simunitions or paintball guns? If not, how 'bout you take your uninformed opinion and shove it.

I don't recall any mass shooting incidents with an actual assault rifle (which are select-fire by definition, not simply scary looking rifles), but running out of ammo in 2 seconds is not conducive to fending off a hostile crowd of potential victims.

it's...December. Get over it.
reavenshrike: Had this story broken in early November, I might have agreed with you (boorish language notwithstanding).

However, the ghoulish and gauche behavior of these students is a reflection of society at large, and as such, bears examination and commentary. It has only been widely publicized recently.

If you don't want to participate, that's fine! Just hold your water and let the adults talk!

(With any luck, you'll be disenvoweled soon! )

Bo

The fact that armed civilians returned fire at the sniper wasn't something police had to "contend" with...

Noted...when I wrote the comment I wasn't sure how many on this blog would even remember the event. You are correct. And your recollection is better than mine.

Nathan Jones
Jessica Maroclo