..not to be the bearer of bad news...but there is a Perfect Stom brewing in Colorado...supposed to be a doozer and it's heading east. The weather people are calling it a 20 year storm (i'm being serious too...look it up!). Major snow, coastal erosion, inland flooding.

Have a good weekend. :)

When are you going to call out Newt Gingrich?

Jay,

You've really got to study the leftist dogma better before you try commenting on it:

If it's warmer than "normal" it's global warming.

If it's colder than "normal" it's global warming.

If it's "normal" it's still global warming.

Jay, CFCs are involved in ozone layer depletetion, nothing to to with global warming. Go back to high school science class and start again.

Bunyan, I'll just point you back to kindergarden, where you belong. Everyone who believes the sun goes around the earth (and that the earth is a couple billion years old, at that) ought to believe anthropogenic climate change is an issue. It really is that simple.

Now if you're a fundie then you already beleive a lot of kooky stuff, and why should one more lie bother you...

I'm sorry Geek, I know it's heresy to question leftist dogma. You religious fanatic leftist really need to get a sense of humor, though.

Please, before you conservatives make any bigger fools out of yourselves, google "difference between climate and weather", read the links and try to comprehend what you're reading.

Come on guys even a 5th grader knows this stuff.

Who cares. Global Warming is all bullshit anyway, hyped up by a bunch of hypocrites.

It does not matter what we do, the weather will change.

Hey Geek, I took college chemistry back in the early 1970s when ozone depletion was just a theory and not "scientific consensus" and I ran the chemical equations myself. Guess what? CFC and ozone depletion is complete and utter bullshit.

As for the difference between weather and climate, about 4 weeks ago some nimrod agency added up the numbers from December - February, conveniently forgot March, and declared this winter the hottest on record. We're now in the midst of the coldest April since the 1930s. So can we now redo the math and have the New York Time print a front-page retraction?

I thought so.

I love the logic...it is cold today so global warming is a farce. RIIIIIIIIGHT.

Ahh yes, that is right. CFC's as they are known, were the main cause of the ozone depletion in the upper atmosphere as witnessed by the "ozone hole" over the South Pole. CFC's were pretty much done away with in 1992-1994. The predictions were that the "ozone hole" would get worse for a few years and then start to get better. I remember six or eight years was the consensus of the atmospheric experts. Last year, 2006, had the largest hole in the ozone layer over the South Pole that has ever been seen. But the ozone hole is also related to dropping temperatures at the pole.

John S,

You wrote:
"As for the difference between weather and climate, about 4 weeks ago some nimrod agency added up the numbers from December - February, conveniently forgot March, and declared this winter the hottest on record."

The reason March is not included in the winter stats is because meteorological speaking March is considered spring not winter.

Man you guys are dumber than a box of hammers. Even a 5th grader knows this stuff.

I'm pretty sure that February was 0.9C lower than average which made the period from December THROUGH February slightly warmer than average.

"Bunyan, I'll just point you back to kindergarden, where you belong. Everyone who believes the sun goes around the earth (and that the earth is a couple billion years old, at that) ought to believe anthropogenic climate change is an issue. It really is that simple."

Um...am I missing something here? I thought this was a slam on fundamental Christians, but I can't recall anyone really advocating that the sun revolves around the earth. Then I thought it was satire, but the earth IS actually "a couple billion years old, at that"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth

So.. is Geek just kinda dumb? Or am I missing something and I'm being dumb?

Not to worry JT, If the storm that hit Texas comes to you it will include hail the size of hockey pucks (maybe larger) and there will be no snow on your vehicle. Matter of fact there will be no snow, no hood, no top and no windows on the vehicle. Algor-abge is sending global warming after you.
Going to can everything that grows this year. Grocery prices will double by winter, if there is any to buy. Only lost half or so of the strawberries so far.

March 15, 2007 -- The December 2006-February 2007 U.S. winter season had an overall temperature that was near average, according to scientists at the NOAA National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/s2819.htm

Not that facts have anything to do with belief.

Um...am I missing something here? I thought this was a slam on fundamental Christians, but I can't recall anyone really advocating that the sun revolves around the earth. Then I thought it was satire, but the earth IS actually "a couple billion years old, at that"

Actually, that's a little imprecise...The sun and the planets revolve around each other around a common barycentre...it's just that the barycentre happens to lie below the "surface" of the sun. This applies to the earth-moon system as well--this is why we have tides.

"Bunyan, I'll just point you back to kindergarden, where you belong. Everyone who believes the sun goes around the earth (and that the earth is a couple billion years old, at that) ought to believe anthropogenic climate change is an issue. It really is that simple.".

Geek:

1. The earth is estimated by carbon dating to be about 4-4.5 billion years ago.

2. The age of the earth has no bearing on the belief in anthropogenic (man-caused) climate change.

3. Even fundamentalists know about basic astrodynamics. In fact, it was the Catholic Church who were resistant to the Heliocentric theory (ask Gallileo).

"The reason March is not included in the winter stats is because meteorological speaking March is considered spring not winter. "

That's true, but:
" Even a 5th grader knows this stuff."

Unless said 5th grader is a meteorologist, that is not correct. 5th graders believe spring starts at the Vernal Equinox. Perhaps you had a bad teacher.

"Jay, CFCs are involved in ozone layer depletetion, nothing to to with global warming. Go back to high school science class and start again."

Again, not exactly (if you actually believe in global warming):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion

There is a slight caveat to this, however. Global warming from CO2 is expected to cool the stratosphere. This, in turn, would lead to a relative increase in ozone depletion and the frequency of ozone holes.

Oops, hit enter too early:

In response to:
"Jay, CFCs are involved in ozone layer depletetion, nothing to to with global warming. Go back to high school science class and start again."

http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/factsheets/env_facts/glob_warm.html

CFCs - found in fridges, air conditioners, aerosols etc. are extremely effective greenhouse gases. Although there are lower concentrations of CFCs in the atmosphere than CO2 they trap more heat. A CFC molecule is 10,000 times more effective in trapping heat than a CO2 molecule, methane is about 30 times more effective. Methane molecules survive for 10 years in the atmosphere and CFCs for 110 years. It is this that causes people to want to ban them completely.

In fact, according to the theory, CFCs are more capable of raising temperatures than CO2 alone.

Who was it that needed to go back to school?

Glad I could clear that all up for you guys.

No, no, don't thank me. It's all a part of the service.

>..not to be the bearer of bad news...but there is a Perfect Stom brewing in Colorado...supposed to be a doozer

Yeah- I live between Denver and Golden. That perfect storm turned out to be... about 5 minutes of flurries. And that forecast was from the same people who are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that 'global warming' is going to kill us all unless I change my ways RIGHT FRIGGIN' NOW.

Damn it feels good to be a skeptic.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have some Carbon Onsets for sale. These onsets will make the earth warmer for those of you who are sick of the cold weather. We will take some of the proceeds of the sale of our Onsets and purchase SUV's and give them away to poor people. Along with free gas. Why should Al Gore be the only one getting rich off this myth?

Barry still can't tell the difference between climate and weather, maybe google doesn't work in his neighborhood.

James C.
Meteorological speaking for the purpose of keeping Climate records:
Dec - Feb = Winter
Mar - May = Spring
June - Aug = Summer
Sep - Nov = Fall
The last time I checked the Vernal Equinox was in March.
Glad I could clear that up for you.

Thank you, JC. I especially liked 'barycentre'. I'm gonna enjoy explaining to people that the sun orbits the earth.
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Gotta go, the global warming protest is starting in Portsmouth, better get there before it starts to snow.. again..

The last time I checked the Vernal Equinox was in March.

Yes, but not March 1---which is when METEOROLOGIST begin "spring", not everyone else, as one glance of the calendar should tell you.

James C,

Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make to John S. who complained that:

"some nimrod agency added up the numbers from December - February, conveniently forgot March,"

March is when Meteorologists begin spring so they wouldn't include March in the winter average temps.

The difference between CLIMATE and WEATHER seems to be a hard concept for conservatives to grasp now a days. Maybe they do understand and it's just the need to be anti-Al Gore or some such foolishness.

I'm curious, where did you guys get the idea that global warming means that every day of the year would be like a hot summer day?

My point was a jab at your poorly thought rejoinder "even a 5th grader knows this". I would reckon MOST people wouldn't know that meteorlogical data for Spring begins on March 1, not March 21/22. You made a very sweeping assumption, rather snarkily.

James C.

I see.... John S. calls the scientists at the National Weather Service "nimrod" because he doesn't understand grade school meteorology and I get called snarkily. Sounds fair and balanced to me.

I will no longer use the rejoinder as a debate tool .... ah screw it, a 5th grader knows this stuff.

The vast majority of people who talk about the Gore effect or note the abnormally long lived winter of this year are doing so with tongue firmly in cheek. It is a way to highlight the apocalyptic hysteria that surrounds the media portrayal of the AGW theory. As was noted in one of the comments above a report came out in March that the period of winter from December TO the first of February was the hottest on record. Why was the announcement made then? Waiting until the end of the winter period (the END of February) would mean having to announce a winter SLIGHTLY warmer than average. And by slightly, I mean that there have been quite a few winters in the last hundred years warmer on average than this one.

Just so you'll know. I think that humans have and can affect the average temperature of the lower atmosphere. I think we do so in a variety of ways, including producing greenhouse gases. Do I think there is a human induced catastrophe looming? No, at least not a catastrophe from CO2 emissions. I also don't think, like some of conservative friends, that there is some kind of vast conspiracy brewing to eliminate the US economy.

What I do think, however, is that we have a grand conjunction of disparate motives that have happily hit upon AGW as a means to institute policies and programs that haven't been able to generate traction in the general population. I also think that average Joes across the country (and world) have a great desire to "Do the Right Thing". In this case I am sorry to say, it makes them unwitting sheeple. Marxism has been pretty well discredited; socialism has a proven track record, a record of performing poorly on a consistent basis; environmentalists have had their fire diminished by having governments incorporate their policies so now people no longer need the green protesters. AGW is the magic silver bullet. It is at once anti-globalist, anti-American, anti-capitalist, and even anti-science in a weird kind of way. An unannounced, well orchestrated hoax, the purveyors of which generally have no idea they are being used.

Live@9

Talk about fools who need to get out more.

Apparently you missed the breathless hysteria that greeted every heat wave or hurricane over the past few years.

The breathless hysteria that said these "changes in the weather" were clear evidence that global warming was upon us.

After years of being told that hot weather was evidence of global warming you are surprised the general public finds cold weather to be evidence that global warming is not happening?

Sauce, say hello to goose, gander say hello to sauce.

Live@9:

I'm curious, where did you guys get the idea that global warming means that every day of the year would be like a hot summer day?

No one has that idea, you just chose to overlook the satire so you could rant and rave about someone having less intelligence than 5th graders.

Which in many peoples books places you about in the same grade, or less.

The wonderful irony is that Gore's documentary is conveniently untrue. He just slightly misplaced the negative.
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RV, it will be helpful to contemplate that irony as the useful idiots stomp deniers into the ground whatever the weather, and their ants.
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