Only if you move there.

Must be the Governor's fault.
==============

Hey, we don't want it - we've got more than enough problems of our own, thanks!

"Is it too late to offer Massachusetts back to the British?"

If this is possible, can we also give Wayne County (Detroit) to Canada? Michigan would never be blue again!

And speaking of one of the great evils of modern American society, unions, why the hell is anyone talking aoout this?

Further proof the the left is neither democratic or liberal!!!!

Correction: That should have read "why isn't anyone talking about this?"

So you cite a right wing anti-labor source and we should get excited? Try again.

Why do you hate anonymous balloting, Hugh? Or have you even thought about it? I'll bet you didn't look past the source there, nor past your own bias.

Now, you try again.
========================

And how much are they paying for this guys scotch?

No Hugh, I don't expect you or any other neo-communist assholes to be bothered by the "democrats" passing fascist anti-democratic laws. I'd expect you to support it.

Growl when you say you're a proggrressive so I can see your intent on your face.
========================

That's a yellow police scene taped wrapped around his trunks as he rises from the deep. I believe you've got the iconic picture of modern liberalism, there Old Coot. Treasure it.
============================

It's the 'Portrait of Dorian Kennedy'.
=====================

Lotta hate here today. But your hate makes me happy. Tells me things are going in the right direction.

Mary Jo Kopechne could not be reached for comment.

Your right Hugh. I hate fascism. And I hate communism.

But don't get too happy, that anti-democratic, fascist bill will be vetoed if it ever gets past the senate.

And again, Hugh, why do you hate anonymous balloting? We don't want to hear about your perceptions of hate.
======================

Hugh, I think you define hate the same was the left defines smear.

"Only if you move there", and "Try again". Hmm. I recognize that tone, you self-absorbed self pitying sorry piece of proggrresivism.
==========================

Man o man the righties veins are popping, the faces red as beets. Do you folks thrive on hate. How does it make you feel?

Kim, just stop commenting for one minute. Take a time out. Get a paper bag and breathe into in. Really, it'll be OK.

Actually, I'm wondering how a liberal opposes anonymous balloting without getting red in the face. At least I'm passionate about your lack of intellectual rigor or ethics.
=======================

Buy Hugh,

You really seem to get off on being a smarmy, arrogant, elitist snob. You seem to thrive on it. How does it make you feel? And what of your new year's resolution?

And why can you tell us why you think secret ballots are bad and must be outlawed?

How about Diebold machines for Union elections.
==============================

Did you notice that little fascist Hugh did not comment on why he supports fascistic actions by unions. Why is that?

Hugh...if the Dims keep passing bills like this...they are going
to lose the majority in no time.

Kim,

There is very little that's "liberal" about Hugh or the rest of the left.

Well, they do liberally kill inconvenient children.

And they liberally opress the poor with addicitive entitlements.

They support liberally taxing the poor and middle class.

And liberally suing everyone for practically every reason.

And the liberally support the terrorts in Iraq.

And they liberally honor Joseph Mengele by continuing his use of genocide victims for medical research.

And they liberally support liberally withholding information from the public through biased media.

Ok. I was wrong, I guess they take all things evil to liberal excess.

Dear P Bunyan:

I respond in kind. I have no doubt that those of us left of center are far more intelligent, much more humorous and generally more all around balanced folk then most of you on the extreme right. Certainly there are exceptions - even a few who comment here, though I have seen none today.

I enjoy responding to the hate filled screeds and outright lies you haters like to spew around. I like to poke and prod and use satire (which few on the right understand since you have so little humor).

As to how i feel? I feel sad that folks like you are so full of hatred and that your attempts at humor involve mockery most of the time. Does that answer your question?

Irony Alert.

This is a genuine four star unrequited pixillated ironist.
==================================

Hey, Hugh, shut up and vote. And don't you dare tell us how you voted.
=============================

Hugh perfectly defines cognitive dissonance.

I have no doubt that those of us left of center are far more intelligent, much more humorous and generally more all around balanced folk then most of you on the extreme right.

Bwahahahahahahah!

Of course you have no doubt, Hugh, you are a True Believer of the One True Faith (ver 1.31). You are as certain of your Truth as the Catholic Church was certain Galileo was wrong and the Sun orbited the Earth.

You still haven't noticed that most of the people you are referring to as "extreme right" are about as right-wing as Tony Blair. You've used that term to describe everyone who disagrees with you, and came damn close to ascribing the term to mantis of all people.

Willfull ignorance and pettiness, thy name is Hugh. Apparently one somewhat-thoughtful post was enough for you, and then back off to psychedelic lala land.

Of the three primary left-of-center commenters I see around here, Lee is passionate, mantis is patient, and you, Hugh, are pathetic.

Online anyway. . . you're probably an okay guy in the real world, but without the possibility of face-to-face embarassment you seem to feel free to let your inner nut run loose.

Hugh,

I seem to remember having some reasoned debates with you when you first got here, what happened?

Or was that not you, I don't remember.

Ahhh yes the old I'm gonna deny I'm a right wing kook defense. See it often. Funny how it just doesn't match the posts/comments.

Oh, and i do really enjoy poking the pompous asses amongst you. You know who you are.

Chances are you'd not recognize Hugh in real life. People such as he tend to hide behind keyboards, yet act completely different face-to-face.

Best to ignore and they go back to the DU or Kos.

btw, he still hasn't answered Kim's question. No surprise there.

Hugh just reinforces the fact that libs are ass clowns.
Keep on reinforcing that fact Hugh. My god what a loser.

Heralder:

No that was me. But I'm so pissed off the last couple of days at some of the hate spewing from folks here that I've popped my cork. I do that sometimes you know. Then some of these nut jobs just get under my skin.

I'll be OK in a day or two. Thanks. No excuse though, well except for the nut jobs.

Hugh,

I do it too...more recently with 'civil behavior'.

But I've found the more emotional I get at my opponents the more prone they are to be poor arguments. As a result I'm very familiar with my foot in my mouth.

But I'm so pissed off the last couple of days at some of the hate spewing from folks here that I've popped my cork.

99% of the hate I've seen, Hugh, has been from you. You probably need to go do something else for a while, take a break, because dude, you have a problem.

Oh me too. No doubt. Plus I just feed their predisposed views. But dammit they just rile me up sometimes.

Plus I just feed their predisposed views.

Well, yeah. I've noticed that as a general rule, people predisposed to the extreme left or right tend online to be intractible, ignorant, and obnoxious about it. You certainly fit that viewpoint. At least your honest about your huge blindspot.

Like I said before, you're so ate up with Bush hatred that if he said it got dark at night, you'd never turn your headlights on. I disagree a lot with the man (probably over 50% of the time, because I am fairly socially liberal. . . extremely so for my location), but I have respect for him and the office. Same goes for Kerry, Gore, Hillary, and Democrats in general. I have a lot of respect for their capabilities, acknowledge where their positions have strength, and also acknowledge their weaknesses, something you are incapable of doing.

Ahhh yes the old I'm gonna deny I'm a right wing kook defense. See it often. Funny how it just doesn't match the posts/comments.

Right. Go through the archives, look at my comments. If you think I'm a right-wing kook, you prove you're a fool.

Well John I have to repectfully disagree. I am simply responding to others. Something I know I should ignore but sometime I just pop my cork.

Well John I have to repectfully disagree. I am simply responding to others. Something I know I should ignore but sometime I just pop my cork.

If you're respectfully disagreeing with my "99% of the hate I've seen, Hugh, has been from you," then fair enough. . it's a hyperbolic example anyway. If you're disagreeing when I say I'm not a right-wing kook, then may your cork hit you in the eye. Heh.

Well, Hugh, considering that the first comment ("Only if you move there.") on Jay Tea's post was from you, I'd say you started the "hate".

See John here's an issue we can discuss. You accuse me of hating Bush. Give me some references to what I've said that shows I "hate" Bush. You go through the archives and find something.

You make an accusation about me that is as unfounded

I don't "hate" Bush. What I "hate" is what's happening to this country as a result of his policies. I think he's a terrible president as far as foreign policy and the conduct of this war is concerned. I do give him credit for the state of the economy. We can talk about other issues of his presidency anytime you want.

You make an accusation about me that is as unfounded as the one I made about you.
I concede my error in referencing you as a right wing kook.

SilverBubble:

I'm always joshing Jay...that's all that was. Was it being a smart ass? I don't think so, but I can see where others might.

I think he's a terrible president as far as foreign policy and the conduct of this war is concerned. I do give him credit for the state of the economy. We can talk about other issues of his presidency anytime you want.

Fair enough, I was definitely wrong about you, and I withdraw the comment with my apologies.
This is probably not the thread to discuss his other issues, but I'll certainly keep it mind.

So Hugh, now that your hate has settled down a little can you tell us why you lefties are opposed to secret ballots? Why do you think that outlawing the basic tennets of democracy is "going in the right direction".

PBunyan:

In general I am opposed to secret ballots. As I said I am ignorant about the particular issue. However, I will research it and I'll tell you what I think. Fair enough?

Once again, Hugh, in regards to your "joshing", if you are the only one who finds you funny, then you probably aren't funny.

In general I am opposed to secret ballots. As I said I am ignorant about the particular issue. However, I will research it and I'll tell you what I think. Fair enough?

Umm, WHAT?

In general, you OPPOSE secret ballots?

What?

You are aware it's a basic protection for voters, right?
-=Mike

Hugh,

I assume you meant "not ooposed". And yes, I'd like to hear your take on the legislation that was passed by the house yesterday.

There was pretty much a media black out on it as far as I can tell, but I'm sure with some searching you can find out what the leftists in the house are up to.

Hugh hates secret ballots because he probably is a loser NEA or some other union employee sponging off the workers.

BTW Hugh, with regard to your comment earlier about my sense of humor often involivng mockery, I agree, but what I am most often mocking is the hypocracy of the leftists. And I think it's very humorous. But then again, hypocracy is so easy to mock.

Wow. Opposed to secret ballots. Ignorant of the particular issue but everyone here is a "hater."

That's quite a knee-jerk you've got there Hugh.

On that "right wing anti-labor" thing, the issue is pretty simple. Do you think that a worker should be subjected to having a union organizer approach him/her in the workplace with a union card and ask him/her to sign it, or do you think that the worker's decision whether to be represented by a union should be permitted to be made privately.

Tell you what, this becomes law and I'm going into the tire business.

And in case you are tempted to jerk your knee again, I have represented union police officers for 25 years.

Hugh:

Let me go on the record that I don't particularly enjoy your notion of "joshing." It implies a geniality, a conviviality, a sense of familiarity and comfort between the two parties, and none such exists.

I view you as a hemorrhoid -- a mild irritation on my ass that occasionally flares up into an annoyance.

Or, if you prefer, a parasite, getting your jollies at my expense, with no benefit to me in return.

So please don't continue pursuing the notion that I in any way appreciate or welcome your "joshing." It was never true, and never will be.

J.

Jay:

Funny how I feel the same way, ergo my joshing,

Have a nice day.

PBunyon et al:

I just read the Act that was passed by the House. I see no reference in there about open or closed balloting balloting at all. Please show me where it is if I missed it. If secret balloting is not permitted then I am on your side. Imagine that!

Incidentally, in my reading I see that this was a bipartisan bill with Peter King as one of the endorsers. So to those of you callimg me a communist, a fascist and a leftist where does that place Mr. King? I eagerly await your answers. I just can't wait.

Hugh,

I'll have to read the actual legislation and get back with you now, however that is always a challenge as it'll be written in "lawyerese"- that aboration of the english language where it takes 100 words to say what an honest person would say in 5 words.

And as far as the Republicans go, I've personally never said they were anything but the lesser of two evils. I'd bet Mr. King gets a good deal of campaign money from involuntary confiscations from working class person's paychecks (i.e., union dues) just like most all democrats.

Since this thread has turned to discussion of the recent House bill, I'll throw my hat in the ring.

The House Democrats have decided to reward their union supporters with the authorization card portion of this bill (I like the other two parts of the bill). Secret ballots are a way to protect employees from intimidation by employers and unions. They should be maintained. They ruined this bill with the signed authorizations part, and there's no way it will get through the Senate as is, let alone make it to the President's desk, where it would be vetoed anyway.

Lemme see, a troll wanders far from the Komfy Kos Kamp (where the death of Americans is celebrated with the words "screw them") and stops by here to experience hate?

Describing such a person as a hemorrhoid is much too kind.

There was pretty much a media black out on it as far as I can tell, but I'm sure with some searching you can find out what the leftists in the house are up to.

Well, first of all I heard about it on NPR. Secondly, do you call this a media blackout, or were you being sarcastic?

Here you go Hugh"

"If the Board finds that a majority of the employees in a unit appropriate for bargaining has signed valid authorizations designating the individual or labor organization specified in the petition as their bargaining representative and that no other individual or labor organization is currently certified or recognized as the exclusive representative of any of the employees in the unit, the Board shall not direct an election but shall certify the individual or labor organization as the representative described in subsection (a)."

In plain english that means the union bosses can go around and force people into signing "authorizations" agaist their will and there will be no free democratic elections.

I guess the "right wing anti-labor source" was right yet again.

Oops! Did I mock you there? Sorry-NOT

And thank you mantis. Good post. I agree.

Sorry mantis, I should have said a "mainstream" media blackout.

I used to listen to NPR when I was in college, then I realized that I knew less after listening then I did before so I stopped.

PBunyan:

Where do you get that conclusion? Where does it say the authorization must or will be signed in public? Is that your interpretation?

mantis, do you have anything specific about that issue?

I should have said a "mainstream" media blackout.

Ummm, ok. The New York Times, CBS, SF Chronicle, Associated Press, Washington Post, & Washington Times :-@ are not mainstream? What is?

mantis, do you have anything specific about that issue?

Do you have a specific question to ask? I don't understand that one.

Oh, btw, Bam!

Sorry -the issue about the signed authorization not being secret. I don't read that part as saying anything either way, i.e open or secret.

Oh, and your tinfoil looks nice and tight today. Still telepathing with SheikYour Booty?

Internets?...

Sorry -the issue about the signed authorization not being secret.

I suspect my objections differ slightly from those above. The contention that the signed authorizations would be accessible by employers is wrong; the authorizations would go from the union reps to the National Labor Relations Board for approval.

The purpose of secret ballots is a means by which employers can ensure that their employees are not being intimidated or coerced by union organizers. If you work someplace where union organizers intimidate you into signing an authorization card, you can still vote against the union in the secret ballot. A worker's vote is secret to both the employer and the union. An authorization card is not secret as the union knows about it.

Btw I'm pro-union, but not everyone is, and employees should have their choice free of intimidation.

Oh, and Hugh, I don't think you understand the meaning of the whole "tin foil" thing, and as a result your jokes make no sense. And telepath isn't a verb.

I love you, too, Hugh.

There are 7 republican co-sponsors of this bill, out of 215 sponsors. Three (including King) are from NYC boroughs (no secret to the motivation for their support), one is from Cleveland/Akron (no mystery there), two from Jersey (ditto) and the always estimable Chris Shays.

I sure don't find it unusual that the congressmen from districts heavily influenced by urban-dominant trade unions would be signing onto this garbage?

Thank you mantis, I was also getting a little tired of the hackenying of a good epithet.

By the way, in case anyone wonders why this bill is being pushed so hard, I suspect it is because the number of elections per year is dropping, and the number of elections won is also dropping, although the relative percentage of elections won has maintained somewhat constant.See here.

Meanwhile, the wheels are coming off the US economy...

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- U.S. stocks closed lower Friday, as the Dow Jones Industrial Average took its largest weekly percentage decline since March 2003, with the Japanese yen's rally against the dollar and more bad news for mortgage lenders fueling the same anxiety that sent stocks sliding all week. The mood of U.S. consumers worsened in late February, according to the latest research from the University of Michigan. The UMich. consumer sentiment index fell to 91.3 in late February from an initial reading of 93.3 earlier in the month. This is the lowest reading since September. Gasoline prices were up 10% from late January to late February.

Economy heading into recession, no light at the end of the tunnel in Iraq...

This could be shaping up as a perfect storm for the GOP in 2008.

Larkin,

Why is that? The economy was fine until the Democrats took over Congress.

"Economy heading into recession."

One week, a market correction amounting to a tiny fraction and we're "heading into recession."

Jesus Larkin, ytou don't really believe the stuff you write, do you?

I'm sure that's it Sheik. 8 weeks of Nancy Pelosi has put the economy into a tailspin. The previous 6 years have nothing to do with it at all.

Fear drives markets as much as anything else.

Yeah right Larkin, America is going to elect Osama or Billary to fix the economy...my god your such an idiot.

I wonder if Massachusetts would be better off with the capital in the center of the state somewhere, maybe Worcester County, instead of in Boston. The way it is now, Boston's issues, and attitudes, will dominate the statewide government agenda no matter what. Michigan deliberately moved the capital from Detroit to Lansing for that reason.

Do what I did.
Move out of MA.
I did 2 years ago.
Now for the bad news.
Unfortunately, thousands of Massholes followed me here to NH.

"Sorry -the issue about the signed authorization not being secret. I don't read that part as saying anything either way, i.e open or secret"

That's surprising as I thought that you leftists are "far more intelligent" yet you can't see something that is so overwhelmingly obvious that you average 6th grader could get it.

Oops! Mocking you again, darn me!

And mantis, I clicked on your link in your 3:52pm post. Didn't see any of the sources you cited in your 4:04pm post. Nor have I been able to see anything about this story in any of those sources. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I couldn't find them. Thus, I said there seems to be a blackout. If they did report on it, I would bet their reporting was very misleading and ignored the anti-democratic provisions the "democrats" included in the bill.

Good GAWD JohnAnnArbor, not Worcester.

It looks like a big county. Surely a town there could serve as capital, wavemaker.

It seems that -- even at this hour of the following day, most of the MSM reporting on it is proponent-press release driven -- which would certainly explain why NPR is alone among the radio news sources I've heard today.

The only mainstream print press report is a piece from Grand Haven MI --clearly a story brought to them by Hoekstra, who was touting his vote against it.

Other than that you have the "PR NEWSWIRE story that leads with the middle-of-the-road headline "House Passes Employee Free Choice Act in Spite of Hostile Campaign Resembling Unionbusting" -- yeah.

So I would agree that the MSM is missing this story - intentionally, I doubt.

Well sure -- and Mackinaw could serve as MI's capitol too --

But as a lifelong Massachusetts resident (whose mother was raised in Worcester)...oh never mind.

Didn't see any of the sources you cited in your 4:04pm post. Nor have I been able to see anything about this story in any of those sources.

Either you don't understand how GoogleNews is set up or you are just not looking. When there are multiple sources covering the same story they will be lumped together. At the bottom of the top story you will see a link that says "all 517 news articles »". Follow it and you will find the sources I mentioned. You could also, I don't know, go to the "Washington" or "Politics" sections of the NYTimes or WaPo, for example, and find the stories linked there.

It's interesting to me that you are willing to claim things like "media blackout" without putting forth the slightest effort to actually look at the media you claim is ignoring something. What's more, you'll casually comment that, "I would bet their reporting was very misleading and ignored the anti-democratic provisions the "democrats" included in the bill." I would love to make bets with you, since you're so willing to throw them around despite your ignorance.

But I will grant that you did say "seems." I live in Chicago and it seems to me that it's about 72 degrees outside. I haven't looked out the window or checked the weather, but that's the temperature in my office so I'm going to assume its the same outside. No need to check.

...now that the housing market is in a tailspin in some areas, as many as 2.2 million people could end up losing their homes, worth a total of $164 billion, according to CRL. Another report, by Lehman Brothers, concluded that as many as 30 percent of people who obtained subprime loans in 2006 may end up defaulting on them.

More great news about Bush's "fantastic" economy.

Hey hugie Prep. H is good for hemorrhoids. It will make it fill a lot better when you try to extract JT's foot. Boy did you get one broke off in you. LOL

Hugh thinks this site is full of hate. I guess he thinks Arianna's leftwing site with posts/comments about too bad Cheney didn't get killed the other day was full of "love."

Excuse me while I laugh again at the clueless Hugh...

Bwahahahahahahahahah

That's ok larkie. The demos are in power now so they will raise your taxes and take care of the hold thing. Its called socialism.

Oh hell, let the unions have their bill. If they use it successfully we'll rid ourselves of the few hundred thousand factory jobs that haven't yet been moved to China.

I just read the Act that was passed by the House. I see no reference in there about open or closed balloting balloting at all. Please show me where it is if I missed it. If secret balloting is not permitted then I am on your side. Imagine that!

Hugh, are you completely ignorant on what card count entails? It means union officials can do whatever they want --- and intimidation is not unheard of, as I learned when the Borgata got unionized shortly before I left --- to get your signature. If you have family at a union property, they can have them fired if you don't sign the card. They can make threats to your family if they so wish. Just so long as you sign.

And you don't see anything wrong with this? NO union will do anything BUT card count since they have an absolutely abysmal record on winning elections for representation (they get decertified more often than they find new suckers to "represent").

Where do you get that conclusion? Where does it say the authorization must or will be signed in public? Is that your interpretation?

It's how they've ALWAYS run card count "elections". All they have to do is get your signature. That is it.

I suspect my objections differ slightly from those above. The contention that the signed authorizations would be accessible by employers is wrong;

It very much is NOT wrong as unions routinely (ask anybody who has dealt with unions trying to win the right to represent a group of workers) will show the cards to employers.

And why is Larkin so happy about possible economic problems? He enjoys suffering?
-=Mike

In regards to the corrupt nature of Massachusetts spending there are two words that apply:

"big dig"

"...now that the housing market is in a tailspin in some areas, as many as 2.2 million people could end up losing their homes, worth a total of $164 billion, according to CRL. Another report, by Lehman Brothers, concluded that as many as 30 percent of people who obtained subprime loans in 2006 may end up defaulting on them."

the optimum words are "could" and "may"...Larkin you are such an idiot.

The subprime loan collapse has little to do with the economy. It has everything to do with "no paperwork" (i.e., no lender due diligence) variable rate loans being taken out by nitwits who couldn't afford them.

Report by Lehman brothers -- heh. They're one of the principal lenders, packaging them up, securitizing them and selling them in the institutional market, making millions. And now the holders are going to take the hit, the homeowner is out, and Lehman hands out $5M bonuses again.

hugh-
how can you stand this? you're carrying on extensive arguments with completely uninformed idiots. legislation (aka, "laws") written in "lawyerese"- shocking! btw, P. Bunyan has to be simply a huge moron- dude, what decade are you living in? your constant references to communists are confusing me. it's nno wonder you are worried about the terorrist in your trash can when you didn;t get the memo that communism is dead, and was NEVER going to take over america. crikey! you probably don't buy ben & jerry's ice cream either as a result of their excessive "communism."

didn;t get the memo that communism is dead

It, and Fidel Castro, would negate that statement.

All you need to know about "slingshit" is in the word he used--DUDE. lol

It looks to me, Slingshot, like he couldn't stand it. While we are at it where do you stand on anonymous balloting? With him or without?
=============================

Thank you for your edifying and astute comments, slingshot. I've practiced labor law for 25 years -- what's your "informed" experience in the subject matter?

Please take a few moments to google around so that you can obtain the proper talking points from Kos and DU -- surely you can't muster an original string of words on your own.

"I've practiced labor law for 25 years -- what's your "informed" experience in the subject matter?"

You mentioned you'd represented a police union in the past, or was that police officers that belonged to a union?

Just curious... In your 25 year labor law practice, what percentage of your clients were employers and what percentage were employees?

As though it actually matters, I have been involved on the union side of representation elections, and represented union officers in unfair labor practices, grievance arbitrations and civil suits. When you represent the union, you represent its members -- that is, that's the way it's supposed to work, but not the way it works in a lot of Big Labor locals.

So why don't you two genuises grace us with your explanation for why secret ballot oppresses the worker.

No joke.

Then explain why the same Democrats who are sponsoring this bill wrote to Mexico in 2001 that secret ballots in union elections are important protections to workers.

Does George Miller care about Mexican workers more than American ones?
-=Mike

****crickets*****

and frauds.

D'ya suppose these jokers have never voted? JustOneMinute ran across a commenter who didn't understand that the Libby trial is a criminal one. She didn't understand he risks 30 years of his life on the kindnesses of twelve strangers.
===============================

The Bay state must have taken their cue from the deluded moron-in-chief and his war criminal buddies. In 2000 the U.S. had a budget surplus, but now as our country heads down the skids with enormous deficit, you pathetic souls look at a liberal state as the problem. Oh let us not forget, on top of the current U.S. budget deficit, almost all of the cost of the illegal and immoral Iraq war is not even on the books yet. So a failed businessman, W the arrogant moron, lies us into a war, doesn't pay for it and descends us into a hellacious disaster and you look to the bay state as a problem. How pathetic can you bilnd ignorant losers get?

Marty, I suppose you'll eventually get the concept of relevance.

You're not there now, though.
-=Mike