That's how Socrates died, someone told him the hemlock was a natural herbal supplement.

Heh.

Try engaging a true LP member concerning the DEA (and, to a lesser degree, the FDA).

Deregulate ALL drugs! What we do in our own homes is nobody's business, even if we are making crack or crystal meth! ALL drug regulation is bad! Oh, and by the way, you can simply let me die as a consequence of my drug use, if that happens.

Yeah, right.

If you think the "natural" supplement market is bad, wait until (shudder) any and all may market any and all substances as "beneficial", "energizing", and "wonderful".

Take some St. John's wort. You'll feel better.

Is there a story behind this rant Jay? Just curious.

Jay Tea - what do you REALLY think?

My guess is the his performance with the ladies did not quite match the marketing hype....

Way to go! Stepping on Advocare, Herbalife, GNC, and 47 other supplement makers are we? Way to go! Methinks they need a little stepping. and slapping. and kicking. but maybe that's the result of using the product as recommended, then suffering the worse depression I ever had when I stopped. I used to take an Advocare supplement. I tell you it was a wonderful upper, up to the time I stopped. (the pusher who sold it to me also used it and stopped. He had the exact same results, a general feeling of energy and motivation while taking it (classic result of taking an 'upper'), then deep depression when stopped (classic result of taking an 'upper'). )Advocare GOLD (& silver) if you are wondering.
So, step on a few more toes. But you are fighting a several billion with a 'B' a year industry. Good luck!

Don't ban all medical care for the con's. Limit them to the same 'phony' cures they hype.
One in a thousand of the herbal cures have been passed down for generations and do work, but that leaves 999 out of a thousand that are a con. You pay your money, you take the chance.
American is ate up with stupid people, To be polite we call them democrats. LMAO

Jay,

You are right on in this one. The bogus claims by these companies without ANY valid data ("I was cured") does not qualify as it is called "anecdotal evidence" -- this is not considered near sufficient in the medical community.

All these bogus peddlers should be stopped as they are selling products which technically they have to add "not intened to treat or cure any disease" on the bottle (which people don't read with comprehension), while their grand claims are outrageously false.

I have many people I hate, and to show you where these thieves rank, here is my list:

From people (groups) I most hate (in order of hate most to less)

1) Islamic extremists
2) PETA
3) False "Christian" teachers
4) Tie: Michael Moore, Al Franken, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Howard Dean, John Kerry, David Corn, Eleanor Clift
5) ACLU
6) Tie: Roh Moo Hyun, Kim Jong-Il
7) Peace Demonstrators
8) American Muslim Extremists
9) Hollywood Liberals
10) Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (can be included in #3 above)
11-30) You all see a pattern -- probably can guesstimate some of these
31) Nutritional supplement peddlers.

Thank you for your attention.

Love ya, Jay. This isn't April first, so what's your real point?

"it's nasty and brutal and utterly unconcerned with anyone's welfare" I thought that you were referring to big government. I miss my Ephedra Stacker 2. Thanks to the FDA and stupid big government I cant get it anymore, well not in as potent a dosage as I used to be able to. As far as spam just delete.

Jay,

There is a lot of phony promotion out there (my wife and I do get a good laugh out of "Bob" in the Enzyte commercials), but there are a lot of reputable people and companies selling nutritional supplements for which there is a reasonable belief in efficacy. I am taking a group of supplements recommended by Ray Kurzweil and Dr. Terry Grossman after reading their book (Fantastic Voyage). They describe and footnote their evidence for each recommendation. They may be mistaken, and I may be a fool, but I sure as hell don't want the government to tell me which supplements I can and cannot take. Please reconsider.

Oh yes! I hate those stupid infomercials - and the spam.

A problem too is, those who are convinced they "need" the supplements order them online and get them cheap from countries which don't regulate what else is in them. Not long ago a man died of heavy metal poisoning from the supplements he was buying online from India.

I take aspirin. If I'm sick, I take the antibiotics the doctor prescribes. That's it.

I'm curious too about the title. Exactly "where" do you have my remedy?

WAIT! Are you saying that Enzyte doesn't work?

oh crap...

Take some St. John's wort. You'll feel better.

Perfect response, mantis!

Jay Tea is, of course, right. Ricin is a natural plant extract. It's probably not an ideal herbal supplement, though.

Jay Tea is dead-on. The snake oil salesmen of the early 1900's are back at it and racking up sales as never before. No proof of effectiveness is required because their claims are vague or implied. How can you quantify "sexual energy"? What's "Male enhancement"? Another recent "dietary suppliment" trend is to simply avoid breaking the law by adding a question mark to the end of the "claim"... a supposed wrinkle remover states that it's "Better than Botox?"

These scam artists make their money by relying on the placebo effect, or the people the are too embarrased to admit failure by asking for their money back for things like "natural male enhancements". It's the same business plan that's kept the same "X-ray vision glasses, Sees right through wall and clothes!" ads in comic books and in the back of Boy's Life magazine for all these decades.

...and what exactly is a "hoodia" anyway? Like Hoodia and da Bloweyfishes?

And then we can pay $$$ to visit a doctor so he can prescribe herbal tes for us.

Here is the monthly "I'm a libertarian" speech by Jay Tea. Funny how he still supports every neo-con policy. Sure, have it both ways. Anyways, still waiting for you to correct the record on the lies you wrote on Harry Reid.

Hey jptwo I have not read anything on old "dingy" that needs correcting. He is just another 2-bit crook.

Well, clearly you haven't been reading jhow. And since he is a "crook," please feel free provide a link to his criminal history.

Jay Tea - still waiting for you to correct your lies.

Going to disagree with Jay a bit here. Agree the stuff is crap, but sorry, I don't buy the government being any better a solution. The supplements only succeed because they sell and if they don't work they will quit selling.

Let's not forget the government "saved us" from sacchrin and DDT which both turned out to be based on highly political and flawed so called studies. The biggest snake oil salesperson of all is a government representative telling me he/she knows what is best for me.

No thanks.

"The supplements only succeed because they sell and if they don't work they will quit selling."

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Quack remedies linger for decades. As long as there's a steady pool of new patients willing to give a product a try (even if they later abandon it), products will stay on the shelf. The FDA ain't perfect by a long shot, but it's a whole lot better than a "let the buyer beware" approach. Community "wisdom" is no substitute for double-blinded, reviewed, scientific clincial studies.

Kinda hard to separate out the supplements which work from those that don't. I for one wouldn't be able to walk if it weren't for glucosamine sulfate.

I get to feeling that way too, about the scammers, but then, for God's sake it's 2006. If you believe the world is flat, and coffee up the butt is good for you, I'll sell you the Folgers.

clarification - I meant "you" in the general form, and directed at nobody in particular.

"Community "wisdom" is no substitute for double-blinded, reviewed, scientific clincial studies."

Ah, but Gizmo, it's simply a matter of money to get a double-blinded, reviewed, scientific clincial study to give whatever results you want whenever the government is involved. Take the "man causes global warming" fallacy...

jp2

"And since He is a 'crook'please feel free to provide a link to His criminal history."

What are You His publicist or something? Sorry I dont have the link but the documentation disappeared down Sandy Burglars pants..sorry

Neheniah,

I saw you had Howard dean on your list.

Is that because he called the Iraq War 'spot on' back in 2003?

1) Read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle"
2) Answer this question: What is the Libertarian alternative to the Pure Food And Drug Act?
3) Hint - it's the same as campaign finance reform.

Privatize the process. Have private labs and/or universities run the studies. Only when two unrelated teams do double-blind studies and come to the same conclusion can the claim they make be put on the herb or whatever.

"Ah, but Gizmo, it's simply a matter of money to get a double-blinded, reviewed, scientific clincial study to give whatever results you want whenever the government is involved."

That comment illustrates a complete misunderstanding of the drug approval process in this country. If money is the primary factor in getting Phase III clinical studies to produce the "right" outcome, then my employer would be a WHOLE lot richer than it is now. Also, the notion that the FDA is a sock puppet of Big Pharma is a charge that can only be made by someone who's livelihood isn't in the palm of that particular governmental agency.

As for the analogy about "The Jungle", I agree 100%.

As a scientist in the biomedical field this is an issue in which I take a keen interest. Overall, I whole-heartedly agree with you Jay Tea, and well done for giving some much needed voice on the issue. I would add though that there are some supplements that have proven benefits and due to the long process of FDA approval (which is a good, I hasten to add) are only available (at least temporarily) in this grey area. A good example of this are omega -3 and -6 oils (also called fish oils).

Anyway, disabusing the general public of the "natural=good" psuedo-science lie has been a crusade of mine for some time. Well done again!