This would fit better in a category titled "The Tolerant, Open Minded Left Wing" (if you had such a category).

OK, let me get this straight, Richard Clarke was OK but Laura Bush is not????? Geesh.

Do the Episcopalians run the libraries?

Considering that Laura Bush WAS a librarian, her invitation is totally appropriate. These idiots on the left need to get a grip! She is, after all, the WIFE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and whether they approve of her husband or not, both of them should be treated with RESPECT.

Rosenszwieg is a lunatic and obviously suffers from BDS.

Sorry for the shouting, but...

I AM SO DAMN SICK AND TIRED OF EVERYTHING REVOLVING AROUND POLITICS!

There's more to life than politics, more to life than red-blue, more to life than liberal-conservative, more to life than tin-foil left versus reality-based right.

(OK, so maybe I contradicted myself a little there.)

But in the famous words of William Shatner, these wacko librarians need to get a life!

And anyone cares what librarians think? Check out my book stupid!

This is very much like the Rice at BC episode. Conservatives seem to try so hard not politicize these events and liberals can do nothing but politicize these events.

It's a matter of class.

Or not having any.

Maybe they are upset that they have to give up library records to intelligence agencies now...

The librarians have definitely gone off the deep end. Here in Maine, they all went whacko because some people thought it would be bright to have some filters on the library computers. They were NOT going to have free speech squelched! Now the molesters can freely view porn and our kids at the same time.

Maybe they are upset that they have to give up library records to intelligence agencies now...

Posted by: jp2

Do you ever tire of posting utterly false statements on the internet?

JennyMae - Check out Section 215 of the Patriot Act, then come back and apologize to jp2.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/08/26/MNG4PEDMKC1.DTL

Facts are liberal talking points.

A lot of these people are hilarious Lee. It's better than my tele. (Except for the World Cup)

Do you ever tire of posting utterly false statements on the internet?

Posted by: JannyMae at June 21, 2006 12:53 PM
-----------------

Maybe JannyMae is looking for a "false statement posters" support group she can join? Perhaps she's reaching out for help?

Oh wait, she's a neo-con Whizbang regular commenter - so she's already found a "liars anonymous" support group.

jp2

She asked You a rhetorical question nimrod! one She already knows the answer too..

Ya know...more people have been killed in world cup related violence over the years than in the latest Iraq war.

What can I say?? It's true, many Librarians have become so liberal that they are giving us all a black eye.
I apologize for my profession.

The First Lady's topic at the ALA: "School Libraries Work: Rebuilding for Learning"

Whoa, that's sure sounds like hyper-charged political speech to me.

(Do I really need to have a sarcasm tag.)

From your link:

"The ACLU said that in the Connecticut case, the FBI is using a separate investigative tool, a type of administrative subpoena known as a national security letter, to get records related to library patrons, reading materials and Internet use by patrons."

The FBI still has to show just cause to get these records, just as they did, prior to The Patriot Act. They can't just walk into a library and demand that the library surrender records randomly. Further, the libraries had to, "give up records to intelligence agencies," prior to The Patriot Act, just as they do now.

Please stop pretending that this is an abuse of innocent people's rights. To say that you mischaracterized the facts, with your post, is an understatement. Your statement was, as I pointed out, false.

Now, you may apologize to me.

JP2, Lee, you two never cease to amaze me. All we need is Mak44 to complete your triumverate of idiocy.

You really do owe JannyMae an apology.

He or She wont!

Big Mo

You left out Muslim Unity? unless thats Maks new moniker.

I'm trying to keep up - does this mean that the government can find out exactly which books I've been taking out of the library?

Because based on recent transactions on my library card, the entire Dr. Seuss collection has gone through this house over the past two years, and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

I'll NEVER be able to run for the school committee seat now!

[pin dropping]

Nah, MU predated Mak44, if I recall.

Ha ha, Dr. Seuss were childhood treasures, those books are selling for good money now.

[ another pin drops! ]

JannyMae commented: "The FBI still has to show just cause to get these records, just as they did, prior to The Patriot Act. They can't just walk into a library and demand that the library surrender records randomly. Further, the libraries had to, "give up records to intelligence agencies," prior to The Patriot Act, just as they do now."

And here's the headline of the article JP2 linked (since JannyMae is using that as the authority I'll refer to it instead of Sec 215 of the Patriot Act):

FBI demands library records
Request in Connecticut, allowed by Patriot Act, is first of its kind

So you see, JannyMae, jp2 was correct that libarians now have to turn over records where they haven't had to in the past.

I'd suggest again that an apologyis in order, but it's useless. From what I've seen around here scumbag liars just don't have the morals to apologize when they're wrong - they just lie some more.

(pin dropping.... waiting for the next neo-con lie)

[ pin dropping......waiting for the next neo-con lie]

LEE knows what Hes talking about!!

There You go..

I went to library school.

One class, pre-9/11, we discussed what we should do if someone came in looking for how to build a bomb. I jokingly said the response should be "how big a hole do you want?"

Turned out that's basically the ALA's attitude and their idea of a "proper" response.

Oh, and remember, only terrorists' privacy needs to be protected, according to liberals. That of conservatives is fair game.

One wonders why library records are any different than internet browsing records or phone records.

I went to library school.

Really John? Which "library school" was that?

School of Information, University of Michigan. I highly recommend it. Concentrations like: archives; library stuff; human-computer interaction. I did archives. Learned a lot. But along the way, encountered some weirdness.

Very well, Lee, JP2, I apologize. You were right and we were wrong.

Sincerely, scumbag liar Big Mo

By the way, Lee, there really is a discipline called "library science." You can get a degree in it. So in addition to being a class-A jackass, you're also a jerk to people you don't even know.

But hey, I've learned to expect that from people like you who on the one hand think that Bush is dumber than a box of rocks but on the other think he brilliantly stole two elections and tricked the whole world into thinking Saddam had WMDs.

That kind of thinking fries the brain. No wonder you liberals are nuts, and your first instinct is to lash out and attack attack attack!

Thanks Big Mo.

At the risk of getting back n topic but what does an FBI subphonea have to do with Laura Bush, a former librarian, giving a speech at a library?

If the First Lady can't have a right to free speech what chance do the rest of us have?

How about letting her speak and then commenting on the contents of her speech?

Oh and:

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/dec03/library.htm

Makes sense to me why they are angry - I remember when Laura Bush first proposed that pesky Patriot Act and weighed in on it on the Senate floor to extend it's brutal power, and now many hundreds of librarians are incarcerated for no reason. I also understand that will be her sole topic when she speaks at the annual ALA in New Orleans, hence the sudden topic change in this thread from BDS to the Patriot Act.

/BDS

Lee, your rebuttal to JannyMae appears to be incorrect...

From the USA Patriot Act WikiPedia entry (took me 4 seconds to find, and I'm exhausted from the search, so take it for what it's worth)...

On August 26, 2005, The New York Times reported that according to the ACLU, the FBI is demanding library records from a Connecticut institution as part of an intelligence investigation. This would be the first confirmed instance in which the Federal Bureau of Investigation has sought library records, federal officials and the ACLU said. Interestingly, though, the government did not seek the records under section 215, but instead used "National Security Letters," which are the FISA equivalent of grand jury subpoenas and do not require a court order and thus are easier to use than section 215.

So it turned out not to be the first of it's kind and the fact is that there are thousands of these NSLs handed out every year, and this approach is nothing new - they actually originated as what they are today during the 90s under the National Security Act and amended under the Patriot Act. But then again, it doesn't matter as it's just another online pissing contest with a stranger.

I have no idea about computer records from libraries, but computers were in libraries long before the Patriot Act, but it really doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned, go ahead and monitor every click and keystroke of these computers in any library.

I don't know if the Wiki story is true or not and it doesn't matter either way, but let's face it, the intelligence community in this country has its hands full, and if a librarian is ordered under law to disclose library records and placed under a gag order, they aren't protected under the 4th amendment or any other constitutional provision as far as I'm concerned. It's not their job to decide which library patrons are guilty or not, or openly agree with Act of Congress X, Y or Z, it's their job to maintain the services and records of those services of the library and hand them over when they are asked to do so by law enforcement - period.

Other than that, the idiots highlighted by the Townhall article appear to be very delusional.

Snowballs:

Well, this from the NY Times article linked above.

(08-26) 04:00 PDT Washington -- The FBI, using its expanded authority under the anti-terrorism law known as the Patriot Act, is demanding library records from a Connecticut institution as part of an intelligence investigation, the American Civil Liberties Union said Thursday.

The demand is the first confirmed instance in which the FBI has used the law in this way, federal officials and the ACLU said. The government's power to demand access to library borrowing records and other material showing reading habits has been the single most divisive issue in the debate over whether Congress should extend key elements of the Patriot Act after this year.

Wikipedia or NY Times, take your pick. But regardless of the applicability of the NSLs and/or the Patriot Act Section 215, this still appears to be the first time the records were requested from a library.

At least, that's what the article says, and while you suggest that NSLs are commonly used, "So it turned out not to be the first of it's kind and the fact is that there are thousands of these NSLs handed out every year, and this approach is nothing new -- you haven't shown where the "nothing new" NSLs have been previously used to attain library records, as far as I can see.

Or perhaps you can spend another 4 seconds and show us where library records have been previously attained by NSLs? I'll gladly believe you over the NY Tmes, if you can just point to some mention, somewhere. The wikipedia quote mentions nothing about library records being previously attained in this manner.

If, as you say, there are "thousands of the NSLs handed out very year" there must be several easily obtained examples that support your contention?

I'm pretty sure that I saw a picture and headline on my way out of the grocery store today that said Laura Bush had walked out on George.

So the librarians are safe! Whoot!

One wonders why library records are any different than internet browsing records or phone records.

Indeed one does wonder that.

Here you go Lee,

From...

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=44707

Laura Thomas Sullivan, Arizona Library Association president, said she does not know of any other libraries in the state being served subpoenas. It is unknown whether that is because there have been none, or whether they have been kept under wraps.

I think that the case that we were talking about before was actually about computer records (from a library), so maybe it was but again, it doesn't really matter because the laws are in place, and librarians need to take it up with their congressman if they don't like it as opposed to bitching about Laura Bush because of BDS.

Hey Lee,

Here's another one resulting from the same Google search of "Library Records Seized"...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002/06/25/fbi-libraries.htm

I can see the arguments from both sides, I suppose. It just strikes me as strange when people complain about public records privacy in libraries and we end up with Man-Boy organizations conducting meetings in public libraries like the did a few years ago, in San Fransisco I think. While that's a radical example, it's applicable.

Maybe I just don't go to enough libraries.

Chris: What's a library, dad?
Peter: Oh, it's just a place where homeless people come to shave and go BM.

SCSIwuzzy - LMAO! I haven't heard anyone say "BM" since my mom about 100 years ago. I love it!

Now I know why they want the minimum wage raised. So these illegal immigrants jp2 and Lee can go out and get real jobs and escape the clutches of their Democrat Plantation Owners. Lee and jp2 are doing the work for the democrat party NO AMERICAN WOULD DO.

I'm a Librarian. I long ago dropped my membership in ALA because they're so biased & leftist. (I think it was right after an ALA convention where Molly Ivins appeared & told "jokes" as part of her speech.) Frankly, I'm shocked they invited Laura Bush--they must be trying to get something passed to where they would reluctantly invite her. This is, after all, the same organization that turned on its own & sided with the ACLU against the Morristown Public Library. Their "crime?" Well, homeless professional lawsuit-bringer Richard Kreimer was notorious for hanging out there & threatening (& following) women while looking down their shirts. The library tried to pass an ordinance to prevent that. Nope, can't have that. The ACLU sued, & won--& the ALA filed a brief on behalf of the ACLU. In a pretend effort at "fairness," the ALA invited Morristown's head to speak. She was disgusted, as were most of us. Congrats to the ACLU & the ALA, BTW--they managed to bankrupt the library, waste lots of taxpayers' $$, & deprive the citizens of that town of a functioning library, while driving several hard-working Librarians out of the profession. This is also the same organization that had Hardy Franklin as a director. I was studying for my MLS at the time (at the Univ. of Pittsburgh) & forced to attend "campaign" events for him put on by ALA members shilling for his candidacy. (It was a foregone conclusion that he'd win--he was black & fulfilled the ALA's need for PC-ness.) Hardy shares the proud distinction of helping to bankrupt the District of Columbia public library system thru his sexual harassment of various Librarians. (My experience with Hardy? At one of the events, when I told him I would love to work for a public library, he responded, "I don't like to hire women because they all leave to get married." Yes. Despite my bringing that to the attention of various ALA members, nothing was ever pursued--apparently being a minority trumps being sexist, & he subsequently became the ALA Director.) I've long ago switched my membership to the Special Libraries Association. The ALA is in the same league as the ABA--they no longer represent their profession but instead the agenda of a small few.