My people were slaves to the Egyptians 5,000 years ago.

I demand reparations!

"Racist!"

That's the stock answer, in full, when someone brings up logical arguments against reparations.

Germany owes us too Laurence, I seem to remember they used us for slave labor also. I want one of those new X5 Beemer SAVs and a beer truck to stop by my house once a week.

Let's say you can prove my ancestors stole $1 from your ancestors (big assumption).

Let's say I inherit this dollar and using my brains, labor, sweat, tears and wits, I turn this $1 into $10,000.

Leaving aside the question if I owe you $1 or not, only a thief would say he is entilted to the $9,999 THAT I EARNED.

This is theft, pure and simple. These thugs are trying to enslave YOU AND ME, becuase of what happend 200 years ago.

On behalf of all heretics, I'd like the Catholic Church to give me a lump sum payment of one gazillion jillion dollars for that whole Spanish Inquisition mess.

Hmmm.

As a by birth South Korean, and naturalized American, I demand reparations from China, Mongolia, Japan and all the Communists in the world.

Oh and I want a Fig Newton! Right the heck now dang it!

After the vote, which was needed, to apologize for the lynching of slaves, you could see this as the potential next step.

And people wonder why there is such division in this great country.

How DARE you even suggest that they live in the present! That would mean face reality and deal with the problem of a hurt group of people realistically!

Its like Bill Cosby (if I remember right) has said - you give them all $10,000 and the same time next year they're going to be broke again. Money, alone, isn't going to fix the problem of poverty or the plight of a group of people.

I've never been able to get a straight answer from anyone on what percentage of blacks in the US are descenants of slaves. Anyone know? Does anyone think that the majority of blacks in Africa are better off in any way, shape or form than the blacks in the US? I'm not trying to justify slavery, but it seems to me that the current generation living in the US are doing a lot better in every way compared to their African counterparts.

My people were slaves to the english throughout different times in history. How about some reparations...

ed,

Mongolia? Were they ever in Korea?

I certainly support opening up the federal checkbook to provide reparations ... or I would if I thought that "reparations" would actually solve America's race problems.

--|PW|--

The whole idea of reparations is an insult to everyone in this country. This is just ignorant people looking for a hand-out. The whole concept is enraging.

And what if they did get their money (how it would be doled out would get interesting), could we then say were even and eliminate every silly affirmative action program ever created?

A whole bunch of white people fought and died to free the slaves...

Do their descendents get a cut of that reparations pie?

An ancestor of mine escaped a royal edict of extermination for his entire clan by selling himself into temporary slavery for the price of a ticket to America. He also had to change his last name.

And many of his descendants, including my great great grandfather, fought for the Union side in the Civil War. So I oughta be looking at a piece of at least two reparations pies...

Hey, maybe the Jews can get a few bucks out of Egypt for their slave days and I can hit on the Queen for the potatoe famine..........better yet, let's start with the fossil records!

Rob

So far, indications are that this discussion will not involve the US Declaration of Independence.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security -- Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. -- …
If I'm not mistaken…that about sums up the situation. Organized tyranny, practiced by England or by the US is still the same.
Reflection will allow any reader to see the relation to current US policy. The US Armed Forces are doing their duty, and dying, to promote similar objectives. At least that is the current position of the Bush administration.

Apparently Fran got her cut and paste marching orders from one of the moonbat sites, and just felt like inserting it in a wholely irrelevant manner. Don't those cut and paste moonbat rants come with directions ?

Is that a wordy way of saying that slavery was bad?

After reparations are paid, can we get rid of the generational welfare mindset? Please?

Hmmm.

"Mongolia? Were they ever in Korea?"

What? You've never heard of the Mongols? I.e. Ghenghis Khan? Or in Kerryese "Ghenghiz Khan".

And what about that damn Fig Newton? I'm **waiting**!

:)

Keep in mind, according to the 1830 U.S. Census, there were 3,775 free blacks who owned 12,760 slaves.

In North Carolina, 69 free blacks were slave owners.

And, in 1860, one of the wealthiest men in South Carolina (top 10 percent) was William Ellison, a freed slave who owned 63 slaves.

It is not only a question of what percentage of blacks were slaves, but how many blacks are ancestors of slaves or slave owners?

I came here by way of Uncle Sam's Cabin...so I am new, I have a blog called The Urban Conservative, and a post where I detail the theoretical construct of how a reparations program could be designed.

http://www.dellgines.com/?p=14

The problem with most of the discussion on reparations is that they typically end up like most of the post on this thread. Unintelligent and illogical, not well thought out and reactionary.

My argument is this, as a conservative who supports reparations:

The idea of reparations is the most logical form from a conservative perspective of correcting the social imbalance caused by years of slavery, government sanctioned racism, and disenfranchisement. The reason this is so is because a true conservative holds true to the principles of small government, competitive capitalism and individual freedom.

Reparations provides a solution that minimizes large and perpetual government bureaucracies (IE Welfare etc.) in favor of providing restorative capital to create self-sufficiency and independence. In effect, what it does it transition from a hand out environment that perpetuates itself, to a hand up environment, where post reparations, expectations are that you know must do for self, with the governments responsibility on race issue being solely to protect infringements on freedoms in regard to future aspects of racism.

Those that make sarcastic statements about Germany (who did pay reparations to the Jews), Egypt, the Catholic Church, England, or whatever, I have a suggestion for you, go take it up with them. This is America and we are dealing with an issue from an American perspective.

Hmmmm.

"My argument is this, as a conservative who supports reparations:"

You must be joking. How on earth could you possibly be able to determine, with any accuracy whatsoever, that an individual was actually descended from an American slave and not say from Jamaica? How could you determine if someone was actually an immigrant from Africa?

Frankly I read it and all it is is Welfare + Affirmative Action + Even More Money. It's frankly nonsense.

There's no possible mechanism for determining whether or not an individual is an eligible recipient. And simply just giving money to anyone with dark skin is absurd.

If this is your answer then I'd suggest going back to the drawing board. Americans have spent trillions of dollars in compensating blacks, many of whom were immigrants AFTER the period of slavery or were location in areas that NEVER allowed slavery.

If you're going to post a solution, better make it bulletproof.

Ed, what is this 'compensation' and define how this compensation occurred, who received this compensation, in what manner was it distributed, in what amount it occured, and what criteria was is based upon to receive this compensation, IE was it race specific, was it income specific, was it gender specific. Finally, what effects did this compensation have? I would really like to know but I bet you don't know, because like I said in the previous thread,

"Unintelligent and illogical, not well thought out and reactionary."

Secondly, you contradict yourself by simultaneously saying, 'compensate blacks', and previously saying,

'How on earth could you possibly be able to determine, with any accuracy whatsoever, that an individual was actually descended from an American slave and not say from Jamaica? How could you determine if someone was actually an immigrant from Africa?'

Make up your mind buddy, were the ancestors of slaves actually 'compensated' or were immigrants compensated, thereby reducing the so-called 'compensation' you suggest.

Secondly, you didn't do anything to counter my argument WHATSOEVER. You simply made an observation on the potential difficulty of defining the 'who' of getting reparations.

You create a strawman attack on a secondary and not primary topic. Let me walk you through it, 1) Reperation as a valid tool for restorative justice. 2)Definition of strategies for implementation. 3) Defining recipient group and execution.

You have simply done the typical, skirted over 1 & 2 to create a strawman argument on 3.

Come on Ed, I am sure you can do better than that.

" look to Africa as an example of what becomes of problems we try to solve through lump sums of money."

Afirca has paid back every penny it was conned into borrowing. I say conned because when a few dictators bennefet from at the expence of the people thats when the people have been conned.

The northern world knocks on Afircas doors to dump its cheap products. And makes there goods worthless through its subsidies.

Its a shame of colossal magnitude.

there is no doubt a apology is in order.

one of colossal magnitude.