Back in 2003, right after the invasion of Iraq, two New Hampshire men were visiting Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut, which is run by the Mashantucket Pequot tribe. While there, they had a bit too much to drink and ran into a Saddam Hussein lookalike. The two men announced that "We're kicking your ass over there and we'll do it here," then proceeded to do so. The lookalike, Michael Barbosa of Randolph, MA, suffered severe injuries (including several broken bones in his face).
The two New Hampshire men were tried in Connecticut court for assault. One of them was given conditional release, the other a fine and release.
But the Pequot tribal court decided to take action themselves. They summoned the two men to a hearing. And when they blew it off, they fined them over $33,000. The victim's attorney then registered the judgment in a New Hampshire court for the settlement.
An attorney for one of the men is fighting the claim, saying the tribal court has no jurisdiction in New Hampshire, and they don't fall under the "full faith and credit" clause of the Constitution.
Now, it's indisputable that we have a long and distinguished history of screwing over the Indians. Letting them have casinos and exempting them from taxes and other issues seems, to me, the least we could do to try to make up for it. And letting them have some measure of sovereignty on tribal lands is certainly in the spirit of the treaties we signed, but never really honored.
And while I think there is a certain level of validity to the argument that the tribal court, as a court of a sovereign body, is not necessarily binding on state and federal courts, I think that in this case the dumbasses deserve a stronger penalty than the slap on the wrist Connecticut gave them. $33,070 sounds about right.
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Comments (16)
I agree 100% plus I'd make ... (Below threshold)1. Posted by firstbrokenangel | June 9, 2005 2:18 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
I agree 100% plus I'd make sure they never would be allowed in the casino again.
Cindy
1. Posted by firstbrokenangel | June 9, 2005 2:18 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 14:18
2. Posted by wavemaker | June 9, 2005 2:49 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
It's the only logical conclusion to reach -- otherwise, every drunken idiot who wants to commit torts on customers of Indian casinos will be immune from liability to the casino, right?
I have two questions:
1. Why hasn't Barbosa sue the New Hampshire guys in federal court in Boston (diversity jurisdiction); and;
2. How does Barbosa have standing to enforce a judgment in New Hampshire to which he is not a party? It's not his money to collect (although I'm sure the Pequots are welcoming him to it).
And Cindy, one would have to agree with your position -- although knowing how the casino industry trades information, I might wonder how those fools would be allowed into any casnio.
2. Posted by wavemaker | June 9, 2005 2:49 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 14:49
3. Posted by joe | June 9, 2005 2:59 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
They should be forced to wear Saddam outfits at a convention for Iraq war veterans.
3. Posted by joe | June 9, 2005 2:59 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 14:59
4. Posted by REALITY BASED | June 9, 2005 3:11 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
And can you believe the two guys voted for Bush and not a progressive like Kerry? You bet your ass they were dingers. Scratch as repug and find a racist. You nazis make me sick!
PS: DEAR DITTOHEADS...NO COMMERCIAL AIRLINE CRASHED AT THE PENTAGON. QUIT SPEWING CIA PROPAGANDA!
www.liberalavenger.com
4. Posted by REALITY BASED | June 9, 2005 3:11 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 15:11
5. Posted by joe | June 9, 2005 3:24 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhkaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
Someone didn't take his Thorazine today.
5. Posted by joe | June 9, 2005 3:24 PM |
Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
Posted on June 9, 2005 15:24
6. Posted by REALITY BASED | June 9, 2005 3:24 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
And visit my website you dingnuts
www.liberalavenger.com
6. Posted by REALITY BASED | June 9, 2005 3:24 PM |
Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
Posted on June 9, 2005 15:24
7. Posted by Rob@L&R | June 9, 2005 4:15 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
Are there really people out there who believe that?
I suppose my friend, who heard & felt a jet fly no higher than 50 ft above his van and saw a COMMERCIAL JET fly into the Pentagon, is really a CIA propagandist.
No one will be more surprised than he when I tell him that.
7. Posted by Rob@L&R | June 9, 2005 4:15 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 16:15
8. Posted by Just Me | June 9, 2005 4:16 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
I am wondering, if they injured the man, why they weren't in jail.
I would also say that they should have to pay the judgement, but admit complete ignorance regarding the full faith and credit clause as it applies to Indan Reservations.
8. Posted by Just Me | June 9, 2005 4:16 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 16:16
9. Posted by mesablue | June 9, 2005 4:22 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
What do we do if we run into a Jay Tea lookalike?
Buy him a beer?
9. Posted by mesablue | June 9, 2005 4:22 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 16:22
10. Posted by SCSIwuzzy | June 9, 2005 4:28 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
"What do we do if we run into a Jay Tea lookalike?"
first, stop hanging around the freak tent at the county fair...
second, I kid, I kid. But it was just too easy a joke to pass up.
10. Posted by SCSIwuzzy | June 9, 2005 4:28 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 16:28
11. Posted by ed | June 9, 2005 5:31 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
Hmmm.
And do you really want this as a precedent?
How fair are ***tribal*** courts?
What kind of representation do you get?
Can an Native American sue you in BOTH American and tribal courts?
etc etc etc
Were they stupid? Yes. Is this legal? Not in hell.
11. Posted by ed | June 9, 2005 5:31 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 17:31
12. Posted by Sean | June 9, 2005 6:33 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
How does Barbosa have standing to enforce a judgment in New Hampshire to which he is not a party? It's not his money to collect (although I'm sure the Pequots are welcoming him to it).
Apparently Barbosa sued these two in the kangaroo - I mean Tribal - court, winning a civil judgment against them.
How fair are tribal courts? This fair.
Barbosa also sued the Mashantucket Pequot Gaming Enterprise for not providing adequate security and serving alcohol to the defendants, but the tribal court judge ruled in favor of the casino on both counts.
What a surprise.
12. Posted by Sean | June 9, 2005 6:33 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 18:33
13. Posted by wavemaker | June 9, 2005 8:01 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
Sean, if that's the case, the story is badly reported -- but it was probably much easier and cheaper for him to get a judgment against the guys in tribal court.
Interesting issue, whether Full Faith & Credit applies. Let's go see what the lawyer blogs have to say.....
13. Posted by wavemaker | June 9, 2005 8:01 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 20:01
14. Posted by spelling conisure expart | June 9, 2005 8:53 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
someone before this post said what to do when you run into a jaytee lookalike... hmm several years ago. I swapped appearence with him and the girl who saw it.. well she has never been right since.. or before for that matter.. but thanks to her is how Jaytee and I met.. remember it isn't what you look like..it is how freaked out you can make others..
14. Posted by spelling conisure expart | June 9, 2005 8:53 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 20:53
15. Posted by wavemaker | June 9, 2005 10:16 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
Looks like the slugs from NH have something to litigate.
15. Posted by wavemaker | June 9, 2005 10:16 PM |
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Posted on June 9, 2005 22:16
16. Posted by Jbrickley | June 12, 2005 2:48 PM | Score: 0 (0 votes cast)
Well, living in CT and within an hour of the casino... The tribal police and court system has little power outside of the reservation.
Some of the Indians tried to sell cigarettes tax free and the State and Federal government stepped in to stop it. i.e. blockade of State Trooper and ATF agents preventing people from entering the reservation to buy cigarettes. They also stopped trucks trying to deliver the cigarettes. There was an actual armed standoff with Indians holding AK-47's at the perimeter of tribal land. Thankfully, it ended peacefully.
I doubt the tribal police have much power to enforce the fine in NH. Or to be able to extradite the men. However, if they set foot on Indian land again, they could get arrested and held...
The victim will be better off sueing the two men and taking them to civil court. Hey, if they take OJ's money he could score by taking the two NH men's property, etc. Somehow, facial fractures from an assault ought to be worth something!
16. Posted by Jbrickley | June 12, 2005 2:48 PM |
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Posted on June 12, 2005 14:48