Isn't this exactly what Bush is doing?

Gosh. If only we could find a President who had such vision...

Is this pardigm shift part two? Or is it what I think it is, say anything to take power back, including what you claimed last week disgusted you most, then break all your campaign promises after the election?

Yeah I caught this today and fisked it over at my place. Nothing too indepth. There is just too much in that transcript to go after.

OMG, I am having a flashback of Pelosi quoting the Gospels two days after the election!

Maybe what Al Franken meant was we need a policy to fight terrorism, fight American values and fight Christian morality.

That sounds a bit more like what Al would say.

Why give Franken even a nanosecond of our thought process? It is wasted on this SNL freak. Who(m) gave him more "thoughtful" punditry than I can espouse?

If some of these "commentators" had any sense, they would appreciate Franken's comic genius and efforts to improve the political discourse.

Are they so dumb they don't get it?

We aren't so dumb that we don't get it... we're just so tired of him that we can't work up the energy.

Al is an intellectual who drives the Right Wing Wing-Nuts crazy because he is SMARTER than 99.9% of them. Insult all you want, it shows those who do their true colors.

Yeah, Johnny... I'd say Stuart Smalley was the creative birth of an intellectual. And Big Guy, I didn't hear Franken wanting to 'improve political discourse' during the election, he was about elitist condescension... (and his best comedic days were in the late 70's... )

Have a nice glass of Kool-Aid before you go to bed it'll help you sleep......

RE: Johnnyortho's post (March 4, 2005 01:36 AM)
Al is an intellectual...

An intellectual that got outdebated by McChimpy Bushitlernroniburton? According to the Left's own standards, that's some intellect.

Oh, I'm sorry. You meant Franken.

Well, I checked out The Great Satan transcript (Campus Progress' transcript was unavailable) of the session and Franken's were the most vacuous collection of retorts from an "intellectual" chat session I've ever read. Granted the library of such exchanges is relatively small but he still wins the prize for first (er, last?) place. Franken was pitched softballs slower and fatter than anything Gannon could muster and this was the best he could do? A sampling:

[05:16 pm] Bob (UVA, Virginia Beach): Do you think that the Dems have an effective long-term plan, akin to the longterm plan of the Goldwater Republicans?
[05:16 pm] Al Franken: Yes. And I'm part of it. And so are you.

That's it?!

[05:22 pm] Teela Depena: I am extremly(sic) frustrated at the lack of accountability in this adminstration? From lack of WMDs, to Jeff Gannon, - why is there no legal action taken against the adminsitration(sic)? Do we need congress(sic) to do this? Where is our Ken Starr?
[05:23 pm] Al Franken: They control Congress, Teela.

Such depth. Three whole words. Then nothing. Intellectual? Bah!

[05:57 pm] Sal (Eau Claire, WI): I am concerned that the right is going to stall their Social Security plans for another year. They will use that time to beat the drum, like they did with the election. Using fear, deception, sound bytes, etc to sell their sad story to the masses. After repeating the same thing over and over, like the WMD's in Iraq. I fear the general public is going to buy their story. How do we reach the people in this country who don't listen to Air America or read The New Republic and let them know the truth.
[05:58 pm] Al Franken: I think they run a danger if they let it go into 2006, because Social Security is the giant overreach that second-term presidents often fall prey to. Repeat after me: Democrats are for Social Security, and Republicans are against it.

WOW! I'm all a titter with excitement to his alternatives!

I know chat sessions aren't a particularly good venue for information exchange, but honestly, it was less of an online info session than a protracted series of plugs. Damn capitalisic tendencies - always popping out at the most inopportune times.

Please Al, run. The higher the office, the better. It might be worthy of a donation to your cause.

Oops, capitalistic.

'Al is an intellectual who drives the Right Wing Wing-Nuts crazy because he is SMARTER than 99.9% of them.'

Speak for yourself! He maybe smarter than Janene Garafolo and Randi Rhodes but like who isn't.

You know, occasionally someone beats his head against the wall for long enough until he knows he's licked. Kind of like Clinton suddenly being interested in welfare reform and a balanced budget back in the mid 1990s. It's called victory for common sense.

JohnnyOrtho (for orthodox demo non-thought?): Your typical demo/liberal smugness gets you an F for likeability and electability.

This is a big nothing. Franken is following his Queen, Hillary, in trying to reposition himself because he has a date with a run for a Minnesota US Senate seat in '08. Over the next couple of years you will see him tone down the left wing vitriol as Clear Channel plugs Air Idiot into more of its failing stations. By the end of the year, he'll be rebuking Mickey "The Ham Hoover" Moore and calling Kossaks on the carpet for being moonbats.

I think by "Christian morality" he means the part where it says "You cannot serve God and Mammon," which, of course, is what Bush (and the Republican Right) does best.

Like I said, the true colors come out from the Right- Wing WING-NUTS. I respect the intelligence of many on the right (William F Buckley, Henry Kissinger, Michael Medved... etc) even if I don't agree with them all the time. What I don't do is to pretend that some of these people are not fully versed on the facts and the issues. I'll repeat myself slowly. Al Franken is a VERY smart guy. Al Franken has a firm grasp of political issues and how they impact us on the left. Al Franken is a great advocate for our side, as you all have many you can say the same about. The incogitancy of the Right Wing Wing-Nuts is more apparent every day from visiting web sites like this. "STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES, BUT WORDS WILL NEVER HURT ME."

Bye Bye!!

P.S. Webster I'm not trying to be liked by the likes of you, and I'm not trying to get elected, so I guess you get a no grade for your ineffective and lame retort.

"Webster I'm not trying to be liked by the likes of you, and I'm not trying to get elected"

Oddly enough, many folks of your ilk do want to be liked and elected, but it's not happening because y'all are so smug with so little to be smug about. Your discourse consists of you asserting the invincibility of your man Franken with no proof. What's the point? It's all on the order of "my brother's bigger than your brother." Please reply with yet another written version of a fart joke just to feed my own smugness.

'Al Franken is a VERY smart guy'

'Your discourse consists of you asserting the invincibility of your man Franken with no proof. '

Isn't his fabulous success as a talk show hosy proof enough?

host not hosy or ho

In general, when lefties talk about "real American values," the translation is usually that we need to return to the "real" America represented by such universally adored American heroes as Bob LaFollette, Eugene Debs, and Gus Hall.

Though, I have to say, as much evidence there is for Al Franken being an asshole, there's reason to respect the guy too. One thing I'm always oddly struck by is how many conservatives who know him seem to genuinely like the guy personally (G. Gordon Liddy and Dennis Miller come to mind, and several others I'm not remembering exactly.) And I give him credit in the "put up or shut up" department for the "I oppose the war but support the troops" rhetoric as more than boilerplate. He's done USO tours in Iraq, with non-partisan material. So I give him considerable credit for that.

I'm sure that Al Franken is as liberal as he ever was and this comment does not reflect any change in his views. Christian morality (I think this is the sticking point for most on this thread) is the most liberal of ideals and it would be terrific if those on the right try being a little more christian.

For instance, Al often says if you take a New Testament and cut out all the references to helping the poor, it would make a great place for Rush Limbaugh to hide his oxycontin.

Webster,

When did I say Al was invincible? I just said he is a very smart guy. You ask, how do I know?, because I'm a very smart guy and I know the difference, (besides the fact we both have degrees from Harvard.) What method do you use , if they agree with everything you think they must be smart? Open your mind up to the real world of "thought exchange" simpleton! Keep replying back to proove I've got you on a string!

How bout - Thou shal not steal? Thou shal not kill? Thou shal not bear false witness against thy neighbor in front of the United Nations security council? We could use a little christian morality in this administration.

A non christian

Jack,

I did not know that Webster needed your help in making his points. What are you his Junior College teacher's assistant friend? Take your "hosy or ho" jibberish to the Britney Spears forum where it belongs.

That's the Facts JACK !!

Sure, Ortho, but your degree is from Harvard Dog Grooming School where you were on academic probation for the entire 15 weeks.

You know what, JohnnyOrtho? If you had popped in with some real insight, rather than the manner you chose, you might have gotten some real dialog. But no. Just like so many you jump into a thread and start berating those who have an opinion different than your own. So take a real good look at your Harvard diploma and think, "Maybe I could have learned a little about diplomacy while I was there."

Look at David C's comment and learn what it is to make a point without creating enemies. His post was concise and intelligent whether one agrees with him or not. Are you getting the picture?

You get what you give here. If you don't like it, there are liberal blogs out there that will agree with you.

Julie,

What are you the Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin of this site? I'd say you might want to increase your medications, as you are under the the pathological delusion that your comments are witty. Why don't you try joining your High school debate team (if you are still in Junior High maybe you can join the Rotary Club) to round out your breeding? Sorry about the dog reference I'm so used to them working here at the Dog Salon.

Sincerely
John( 15 point magna cum laude in dognail clipping) Ortho

Florida,

I suggest you take another look at the same picture. I stated the Right Wing (Wing Nuts) are the ones, that in my opinion, bash Al Franken without having a scintilla of info of who the guy is, or what he stands for. After that post the venom started to fly from those who disagreed with my fair point. If people are going to have civil discourse on the topic I'm all for that, which I agree "David C" shows very well how to do. If however people want to travel down the road of insults to me and what I believe, I've got plenty of fuel in my tank for that. I believe debate is healthy even if occasionally some feelings are bruised. At the end of the day I'm sure we all know where we stand.

Johnny

I aspire to be the Connie Rice (Madam Secretary to you), of this site, thank you.

YOU are the one who popped in here and begin insulting people with your first post. You run around the internet, making these barely literate posts, in defense of weird Al. They represent the epitome of your intellect and ability to analyze. So, tell us again how smart you are so we can watch your nose grow another inch.

Julie,
Understand that your points have
Now been made and our chum
Is apparently unable to see or answer them. His
Only
Response to wit is name calling and bragging.

How can you say more without being redundant?
I don’t know.
Guess the thread should just end
Here.

Webster,
In other words you can't handle losing. I've handled your points and Madame Connie's? (Shouldn't that be Condie?)in my illiterate way, while being as redundant as possible. Any time I visit sites like these, purely by accident this time, and feel it needs a left wing perspective, or flawed opinion, I will render my thoughts wheter you like them or not.

Julie(Madame Connie),

If you feel I insulted you I apologize and hope you are proud that you have proclaimed yourself a Right Wing Wing-Nut, based on my original post.

Now it is time for me to "run around the internet" as you so eloquently put it, and make Right Wing types like you know we're not a bunch of baby seals for you to bludgeon.

Have a great day!

Johnny

Johnny Ortho,

At the risk of responding without the parchment from Harvard, a need for my Spellchecking Shepherd, and a chance for redundancy, this pigeonholed "Right Wing (Wing Nuts)" (I'm assuming since I'm neither of "William F Buckley, Henry Kissinger, Michael Medved... etc") challenges your assertion that Franken is particularly smart based on the topic of the thread. Oh sure, he can repeat the equivalent innovative ideology and red meat of "Democrats good, Republicans bad, watch my show" to ignorant yet politically active students and appear as sage; however, people who already know how to think do not accept his spin or necessarily respect his "wisdom" (my quotes).

Did you read the transcript? Franken read like a snake-oil salesman and I'm afraid I ain't buyin'. You state that Franken was "bash"ed by those who lack a "scintilla of info of who the guy is, or what he stands for". I think most of the readers know who S. Smalley is and some of what he stands for, but it's difficult to take him seriously when he produces vacuous material as evidenced by his online chat session with wide-eyed sheep. What's the point of delving into his inner child further when the response is so entirely adolescent and lacking.

Fine, take me and others to task for challenging Franken. Just don't expect reflexive confirmation that he is "VERY smart". As to the facts presented, I am so far unimpressed and reject your declaration outright. He may be "a great advocate for [your] side" or possess a "firm grasp of political issues", but he sure needs to improve upon his delivery or he'll convince no one but the Kool-Aid drinkers, and they are the last ones needing convincing.

Now let's see... where did I put my "Tax the Poor", "Starve the Children", "Pollute the Environment", and "Bush/Cheney '04" signs? They have to be around here somewhere...

LOL
Nice work Web.

"J ulie,
U nderstand that your points have
N ow been made and our chum
I s apparently unable to see or answer them. His
O nly
R esponse to wit is name calling and bragging.

H ow can you say more without being redundant?
I don’t know.
G uess the thread should just end
H ere.

Mr. Harvard

Here he is in action. He also posted unsigned and as John Tant the 2nd.

RE: julie's post (March 4, 2005 08:21 PM)

Heh. Harvard's alumni association must be cringing about now.

I know I'm just a simpleton thinking in binary, but does this compute?
Al Franken == S. Smalley == Johnny Ortho == John Tant the 2nd :: John Lott == Mary Rosh

I know this doesn't:
Al Franken == exhibiting smart

Actually, I'd hypothesize that Al Franken != smart may approach 1.

Too ad hominem? Even if based on presented data? Maybe someone can improve the data pool with something of substance from Mr. Smalley that is not from prepared notes, i.e. spontaneous and unrehearsed responses.